Perhaps it's worth looking at success in the "real world". Jim Collins in his work on the role great leaders play in transforming good companies to great companies writes "... leaders blend the paradoxical combination of deep personal humility with intense professional will ... How do leaders manifest humility? They routinely credit others, external factors and good luck for their companies' success. But when results are poor, they blame themselves. They also act quitely, calmly and determinedly ... they are stoic in their resolve to do whatever it takes to produce great results."
Hopefully, we behave in this way and teach our sons likewise.
Observer44 asked: Is there any correlation between demanding, high results oriented, controlling, HM parents and successful players?
Is there value at all in having those demanding, expect it to get done yesterday, HM, kinds of parents around a team?
***********************************************
Well we all know that our psychology classes helped us to identify the various personality types.
Can we get away from the "Alpha males" and "Alpha Females"? I don't think so.
The "good" Alpha's have learned to be empathetic, putting themselves in the other guy's shoes, sort-to-speak. Bad "Alphas" are narcissistic, self-absorbed, and oblivious to how they impact other's around them...why because they don't care what anyone else thinks since their opinion is the only one that counts.
I confess, I'm an Alpha male, but I'm not one of those that has to "run" everything. As I have gotten older I realize that my son has to have his chance to succeed or fail on his own merits.
But I also know that if I hadn't pushed him to utilize his God-given talents he probably would not have gone as far either...
Why? Because young boys need direction, and someone to help in finding out the information they need to get the exposure they need, like a mentor to help them deal with the disappointments they will experience as part of the difficult trek that BB will be for them.
Of all the people who can be the "point-of-the-spear" to get through all the BS to help a kid both understand, and ultimately prevail in the competitive nature of the endeavor that BB is...I would take the Alpha males and Alpha females to assign that task.
Let's not kid ourselves, it takes a very large ego with a matching humility to play this game at the top levels. All the kids that weren't sure of themselves have long been gone by the time they get to the college level...
Anyway, that has been my experience.
No offense meant to anyone.
JMO
Is there value at all in having those demanding, expect it to get done yesterday, HM, kinds of parents around a team?
***********************************************
Well we all know that our psychology classes helped us to identify the various personality types.
Can we get away from the "Alpha males" and "Alpha Females"? I don't think so.
The "good" Alpha's have learned to be empathetic, putting themselves in the other guy's shoes, sort-to-speak. Bad "Alphas" are narcissistic, self-absorbed, and oblivious to how they impact other's around them...why because they don't care what anyone else thinks since their opinion is the only one that counts.
I confess, I'm an Alpha male, but I'm not one of those that has to "run" everything. As I have gotten older I realize that my son has to have his chance to succeed or fail on his own merits.
But I also know that if I hadn't pushed him to utilize his God-given talents he probably would not have gone as far either...
Why? Because young boys need direction, and someone to help in finding out the information they need to get the exposure they need, like a mentor to help them deal with the disappointments they will experience as part of the difficult trek that BB will be for them.
Of all the people who can be the "point-of-the-spear" to get through all the BS to help a kid both understand, and ultimately prevail in the competitive nature of the endeavor that BB is...I would take the Alpha males and Alpha females to assign that task.
Let's not kid ourselves, it takes a very large ego with a matching humility to play this game at the top levels. All the kids that weren't sure of themselves have long been gone by the time they get to the college level...
Anyway, that has been my experience.
No offense meant to anyone.
JMO
quote:Is there any correlation between demanding, high results oriented, controlling, HM parents and successful players?
Successful players have come from all kinds of different parents. Rich, poor, dumb, smart, demanding, easy going, single moms, controlling, etc. You can find examples of just about everything.
quote:Is there value at all in having those demanding, expect it to get done yesterday, HM, kinds of parents around a team?
Only if they happen to be coaching the team. HM is a description often used by coaches. It is used to describe something they feel is detrimental. College coaches do not use the words HM in a positive way. It is not something they want!
So no matter what we feel is good or bad, right or wrong, There are many college coaches that do not want HM parents, let alone HM players. Therefore, one could say, HM is not a benefit as far as maximum opportunities to the player.
I do believe lots of kids could describe their parents as being HM in their view. Lots of parents could describe their kids as being HM in their view. It’s when the college recruiter sees it as HM in his view, that counts the most. At that point there is no right or wrong opinion… In that instance… It just hurts!!!
It does not destroy the players chances of reaching the top, but it could make it a tougher road.
PGStaff said: So no matter what we feel is good or bad, right or wrong, There are many college coaches that do not want HM parents, let alone HM players. Therefore, one could say, HM is not a benefit as far as maximum opportunities to the player.
*************************************************
How about the HM coach that has a preference for HM players that are "jerks"?
Believe me in my experience that has been a circumstance that happens more then anyone wants to admit instead of HM parents being the issue.
*************************************************
How about the HM coach that has a preference for HM players that are "jerks"?
Believe me in my experience that has been a circumstance that happens more then anyone wants to admit instead of HM parents being the issue.
Being a "jerk" does not necessarily mean someone is very "high maintenance", it just means they are a "jerk". (That's a different topic) Still I have never known a coach who goes out looking for the "jerk" ahead of all others. (Unless, the "jerk" is a extremely big talent)
Be it cars, refrigerators, lawn mowers, televisions, employees, parents or players... All things being somewhat equal, would a person want to pay for high or low maintenance?
There might be some, but I've never met a coach that actually prefers HM players. If the player is exceptionally talented a coach might be willing to put up with a bit of maintenance. Enough talent can be very tempting. But all things being equal HM is not a benefit.
Let's just say that these are all, just my opinions. However, I do know many baseball people who share these opinions. No one has to pay attention to them. There's always a chance that I am wrong. Been wrong many times in my life!
Those that care to think about this stuff may or may not benefit. I do believe it's worth thinking about, though.
In case anyone is interested here are two posts from the thread that started this discussion. Sorry for the length.
Posted in another thread.
HIGH MAINTENANCE Player or parent = More effort, time, risk and problems!
LOW MAINTENANCE Player or parent = Less effort, time, risk and problems!
Take it for what it is worth! This doesn’t even pertain to most!
At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, I think people need to be more aware of the term “high maintenance”. The following is not meant to offend anyone. It is not directed to any individual. The purpose is to help rather than to judge anyone.
Scouts and College Recruiters often use the words “high maintenance” in describing certain players. Most often it is reserved for some exceptionally talented players, even the very best. Sometimes the talent is so good that it outweighs the maintenance factor. In fact, there are “high maintenance” major league stars.
Sometimes “high maintenance” is used to describe parents. Once again it is used most often when the parents have a very talented son. College coaches tend to put more importance on this than pro scouts. It’s much harder for parents to be a pain in the *** in pro ball.
Just the other day in a conversation with a recruiter from one of the nations’ top programs, the term “high maintenance” was mentioned. The discussion went like this (condensed version)
The Coach: “We are looking for a corner infielder who can really hit and contribute right away.”
Me: What about ****** (name left out, but very, very good player)?
The Coach: “He would be the guy, but we’re not going after him.”
Me: Why? Do you think he will be an early pick?
Coach: “He might be, but the reason we’re not interested is because his dad is too “High Maintenance!”
Now I don’t want to tell people how they should conduct themselves. In fact, many including myself have failed in the conduct department at times. Just thought that maybe this info could help a few parents who might take this the right way. After all, everyone wants the best for their sons and daughters.
It should be said that not all scouts and recruiters place the same importance on things beyond a players ability. Just know that there are many who do look into much more than the players ability. With more time I could provide a list (so could others) of some things that are warning signs (red flags) to recruiters and scouts.
If someone reads this and their first thoughts are defensive, please read it again. It is possible you could be a candidate for that “high maintenance” tag. It doesn’t mean you are a bad parent. You might be the world’s greatest parent. However, if you are deemed “high maintenance” it could affect certain opportunities.
I think those who are scouts and coaches at any level, who have examples of high maintenance parents, would be doing others a big favor by giving examples. (without using names of course)
If some day, just one mom or dad could say…. I didn’t realize it, but I might have been headed in the direction of being labeled a high maintenance parent, but I made the appropriate adjustments. Then we should all be very happy this topic was brought up.
If one mom or dad gets anything out of this, I’ll be glad it was posted!
If no one gets anything out of this post, I apologize for using up the space.
Posted by request in another thread.
justbaseball,
As per your request. By the way, regarding involvement we have had with your son and his parents - You score very high in the "Low Maintenance" department. And very high in the "Good Supportive Family" department. Also very high in the "Extremely Talented Son With Great Makeup" department. I think most parents here are high interest "low maintenance types.
Once at a baseball tournament I saw a father marching from another field. He was looking for me! I knew the father and he would fall under "High Maintenance" in the biggest way. His first words were predictable "I really hate to bi*ch, but... I stopped him in mid sentence and said "If you hate to bi*ch so much, DON'T!
A few examples to get things started.
* = Warning signs of potential for high maintenance
# = Good Sign
* Player has been in a lot of trouble
# Player is a good citizen
* Parents have caused a lot of problems in the past
# Parents are supportive but don’t cause problems
* Players or parents who show any signs of disrespect
# Players or Parents seem to show respect to everyone
* Player who is not respected by his team mates
# Player who is loved by his team mates and coaches
* Players or Parents cut down previous coaches.
# Players or Parents who never cut anyone down
* Players or Parents have excuse for everything
# Players or Parents who don’t use many excuses, but can clearly address the reasonable excuse ie. He just pitched 2 days ago.
* Players or Parents are full of complaints
# Player or Parents who don’t complain even though they might have reason
* Players or parents who believe they have no weaknesses
# Players or Parents who understand there is room for improvement
* Players or Parents take up too much time on unimportant things (shoot the ****)
# Players or Parents who are friendly, but understand time constraints
* Players or Parents who are overly satisfied with accomplishments
# Players or Parents who are confident, but understand there is much more to accomplish
* Parents that need to know everything (Meddlers)
# Parents who get the inside information from their son rather than the coach.
* Players or Parents who think they do know everything
# Too many questions is annoying – Too many answers are unbearable
* Player gives the impression he is a celebrity
# Player understands he is what he is
* Parents give the impression their son is a celebrity
# Parents understand their son is what he is
* Parents who need to discuss (with coaches) their son, or the team, on a daily basis
# Parents who show interest, but don’t become a “Oh no, tell them I’m not in” person
* Parents who give the impression that they are not going to “let their son” go it alone.
# Parents who show their confidence in their son to go it alone
* Parents that show they will get involved if things don’t go just the way they want
# Parents who remain consistent and realistic even when things are not going their way
* Parents that show the potential to be vindictive if things don’t go their way.
# Parents who never seem to have a bad word to say about anyone
That last *, might be the most important! It can cause a college coach to avoid a player completely… no matter how good the player might be.
All those * listed above are warning signs that the player or parent could be more trouble than what it is worth. Some involve time consumtion issues, some are potential head aches, some are not conducive to a healthy team atmousphere, and some can even be dangerous for job security purposes.
If you fit into the # category on everything… you would be very unusual. I would almost think there might be something wrong with you!
There are many more warning signs. Hope others join in and add their thoughts. I really think this is a topic that could benefit a some people and their children.
Be it cars, refrigerators, lawn mowers, televisions, employees, parents or players... All things being somewhat equal, would a person want to pay for high or low maintenance?
There might be some, but I've never met a coach that actually prefers HM players. If the player is exceptionally talented a coach might be willing to put up with a bit of maintenance. Enough talent can be very tempting. But all things being equal HM is not a benefit.
Let's just say that these are all, just my opinions. However, I do know many baseball people who share these opinions. No one has to pay attention to them. There's always a chance that I am wrong. Been wrong many times in my life!
Those that care to think about this stuff may or may not benefit. I do believe it's worth thinking about, though.
In case anyone is interested here are two posts from the thread that started this discussion. Sorry for the length.
Posted in another thread.
HIGH MAINTENANCE Player or parent = More effort, time, risk and problems!
LOW MAINTENANCE Player or parent = Less effort, time, risk and problems!
Take it for what it is worth! This doesn’t even pertain to most!
At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, I think people need to be more aware of the term “high maintenance”. The following is not meant to offend anyone. It is not directed to any individual. The purpose is to help rather than to judge anyone.
Scouts and College Recruiters often use the words “high maintenance” in describing certain players. Most often it is reserved for some exceptionally talented players, even the very best. Sometimes the talent is so good that it outweighs the maintenance factor. In fact, there are “high maintenance” major league stars.
Sometimes “high maintenance” is used to describe parents. Once again it is used most often when the parents have a very talented son. College coaches tend to put more importance on this than pro scouts. It’s much harder for parents to be a pain in the *** in pro ball.
Just the other day in a conversation with a recruiter from one of the nations’ top programs, the term “high maintenance” was mentioned. The discussion went like this (condensed version)
The Coach: “We are looking for a corner infielder who can really hit and contribute right away.”
Me: What about ****** (name left out, but very, very good player)?
The Coach: “He would be the guy, but we’re not going after him.”
Me: Why? Do you think he will be an early pick?
Coach: “He might be, but the reason we’re not interested is because his dad is too “High Maintenance!”
Now I don’t want to tell people how they should conduct themselves. In fact, many including myself have failed in the conduct department at times. Just thought that maybe this info could help a few parents who might take this the right way. After all, everyone wants the best for their sons and daughters.
It should be said that not all scouts and recruiters place the same importance on things beyond a players ability. Just know that there are many who do look into much more than the players ability. With more time I could provide a list (so could others) of some things that are warning signs (red flags) to recruiters and scouts.
If someone reads this and their first thoughts are defensive, please read it again. It is possible you could be a candidate for that “high maintenance” tag. It doesn’t mean you are a bad parent. You might be the world’s greatest parent. However, if you are deemed “high maintenance” it could affect certain opportunities.
I think those who are scouts and coaches at any level, who have examples of high maintenance parents, would be doing others a big favor by giving examples. (without using names of course)
If some day, just one mom or dad could say…. I didn’t realize it, but I might have been headed in the direction of being labeled a high maintenance parent, but I made the appropriate adjustments. Then we should all be very happy this topic was brought up.
If one mom or dad gets anything out of this, I’ll be glad it was posted!
If no one gets anything out of this post, I apologize for using up the space.
Posted by request in another thread.
justbaseball,
As per your request. By the way, regarding involvement we have had with your son and his parents - You score very high in the "Low Maintenance" department. And very high in the "Good Supportive Family" department. Also very high in the "Extremely Talented Son With Great Makeup" department. I think most parents here are high interest "low maintenance types.
Once at a baseball tournament I saw a father marching from another field. He was looking for me! I knew the father and he would fall under "High Maintenance" in the biggest way. His first words were predictable "I really hate to bi*ch, but... I stopped him in mid sentence and said "If you hate to bi*ch so much, DON'T!
A few examples to get things started.
* = Warning signs of potential for high maintenance
# = Good Sign
* Player has been in a lot of trouble
# Player is a good citizen
* Parents have caused a lot of problems in the past
# Parents are supportive but don’t cause problems
* Players or parents who show any signs of disrespect
# Players or Parents seem to show respect to everyone
* Player who is not respected by his team mates
# Player who is loved by his team mates and coaches
* Players or Parents cut down previous coaches.
# Players or Parents who never cut anyone down
* Players or Parents have excuse for everything
# Players or Parents who don’t use many excuses, but can clearly address the reasonable excuse ie. He just pitched 2 days ago.
* Players or Parents are full of complaints
# Player or Parents who don’t complain even though they might have reason
* Players or parents who believe they have no weaknesses
# Players or Parents who understand there is room for improvement
* Players or Parents take up too much time on unimportant things (shoot the ****)
# Players or Parents who are friendly, but understand time constraints
* Players or Parents who are overly satisfied with accomplishments
# Players or Parents who are confident, but understand there is much more to accomplish
* Parents that need to know everything (Meddlers)
# Parents who get the inside information from their son rather than the coach.
* Players or Parents who think they do know everything
# Too many questions is annoying – Too many answers are unbearable
* Player gives the impression he is a celebrity
# Player understands he is what he is
* Parents give the impression their son is a celebrity
# Parents understand their son is what he is
* Parents who need to discuss (with coaches) their son, or the team, on a daily basis
# Parents who show interest, but don’t become a “Oh no, tell them I’m not in” person
* Parents who give the impression that they are not going to “let their son” go it alone.
# Parents who show their confidence in their son to go it alone
* Parents that show they will get involved if things don’t go just the way they want
# Parents who remain consistent and realistic even when things are not going their way
* Parents that show the potential to be vindictive if things don’t go their way.
# Parents who never seem to have a bad word to say about anyone
That last *, might be the most important! It can cause a college coach to avoid a player completely… no matter how good the player might be.
All those * listed above are warning signs that the player or parent could be more trouble than what it is worth. Some involve time consumtion issues, some are potential head aches, some are not conducive to a healthy team atmousphere, and some can even be dangerous for job security purposes.
If you fit into the # category on everything… you would be very unusual. I would almost think there might be something wrong with you!
There are many more warning signs. Hope others join in and add their thoughts. I really think this is a topic that could benefit a some people and their children.
It would be interesting, PG, if HM parents recognized themselves as HM...or jerks. IMO, they operate under the impression they are supporting or defending their son "as any good parent would". The coach, the other players, whomever, just doesn't understand their son's talents, the situation, what's fair, or the game in general. They are not, in their own minds, behaving badly.
A HM mother at my son's hs was constantly up in the coach's face about PT for her pitcher-son --- he should be a position player when not pitching. I asked her which of the starters should sit so that her son could play and she got confused....it hadn't occurred to her that putting her son on the field meant taking someone else off. But the once-every-five-game start "wasn't fair" to her son and she felt the need to point it out, complete with her ---in her mind --- reasonable solution.
People can justify their actions in an amazing variety of ways. Hence the equal popularity of the unfortunate word "spin".
A HM mother at my son's hs was constantly up in the coach's face about PT for her pitcher-son --- he should be a position player when not pitching. I asked her which of the starters should sit so that her son could play and she got confused....it hadn't occurred to her that putting her son on the field meant taking someone else off. But the once-every-five-game start "wasn't fair" to her son and she felt the need to point it out, complete with her ---in her mind --- reasonable solution.
People can justify their actions in an amazing variety of ways. Hence the equal popularity of the unfortunate word "spin".
Orlando,
We were in the coach's face because we didn't want our pitcher son to do anything but pitch (reasonably), he wanted him to play every game, every position that he was needed. We finally compromised on first base, DH when not pitching.
Does that make me one of those parents? Poor coach.
We were in the coach's face because we didn't want our pitcher son to do anything but pitch (reasonably), he wanted him to play every game, every position that he was needed. We finally compromised on first base, DH when not pitching.
Does that make me one of those parents? Poor coach.
A big thank you to PG for their awesome post. And Orlando made some great points as well.
Most of us recognize a "jerk" when we see one. Sometimes we can recognize a "HM" parent also.
Recognizing the HM parent is a step in the right direction. My guess is that many if not most of the HM parents do NOT place themself in this category.
The problem with that is that it does not matter if you consider yourself a HM parent. It does not matter if other parents see you as a HM parent. What does matter, is how the coach's see you.
The problem is that sometimes the HM parent is a friend (or parents of one of sons friends). Do you simply cross your cross your fingers and hope their child never suffers the consequences or their parents behavior?
Are there other appropriate options?
After all, that is my primary reason for starting this post.
How do you (and should you even try) convince a friend (or team mates parent) to take a step back. How can you convince them that in doing so they will actually be helping their son more than they are right now.
By all means, there are times when a parent should get involved. There is also a point at which the parent becomes too involved.
Are there tactful ways to help a parent realize they are skirting, or may even have crossed that line?
Most of us recognize a "jerk" when we see one. Sometimes we can recognize a "HM" parent also.
Recognizing the HM parent is a step in the right direction. My guess is that many if not most of the HM parents do NOT place themself in this category.
The problem with that is that it does not matter if you consider yourself a HM parent. It does not matter if other parents see you as a HM parent. What does matter, is how the coach's see you.
The problem is that sometimes the HM parent is a friend (or parents of one of sons friends). Do you simply cross your cross your fingers and hope their child never suffers the consequences or their parents behavior?
Are there other appropriate options?
After all, that is my primary reason for starting this post.
How do you (and should you even try) convince a friend (or team mates parent) to take a step back. How can you convince them that in doing so they will actually be helping their son more than they are right now.
By all means, there are times when a parent should get involved. There is also a point at which the parent becomes too involved.
Are there tactful ways to help a parent realize they are skirting, or may even have crossed that line?
PGstaff: I agree wholeheartedly with your post yesterday. College recruiters do not want to deal with a HM parent or HM player. Everything else being equal who in their right mind would want to deal with a HM parent or player? Good, decent, and respectful behavior should be rewarded. Bad behavior, regardless of which type it is or what the motivation is, should be shunned. Good behavior =reward... bad behavior = no reward. Simple!
Orlando posted:
Can you bring her to my next poker game?
quote:I asked her which of the starters should sit so that her son could play and she got confused.
Can you bring her to my next poker game?
Aparent: If the parents and player have a say so in the selection of which team or organization to play for they should really do their homework and try to learn who the "jerk" parents are and who the "jerk" coaches are. It certainly is true that in some regions the number of teams to select from may be slim and your ability to choose a desirable team may be limited. For most,though, this is not the case. This past summer our family had four players in travel ball and we have been participating for over six years now. We have learned the ropes well and now when choosing a team we focus primarily on the quality of the families and the quality of the coaching staff. In the early years we focused solely on whether the team was a "winner" since this is what we thought was most important. We were wrong. Some teams loaded with talent were also loaded with problems (huge egos, unrealistic expectations, poor politics, selfishness,etc.). Life is too short to spend cherished baseball time with a lousy crowd and the game deserves better. Good organizations, top to bottom, are the successful ones. Hitch your horse to one of those! Which would you want to be assciated with? An organization that may very well win most often yet is riddled with bad behavior... or an organization that also wins often but does so with civility and class. Different strokes for different folks. The choice is yours!
PGStaff
Let's see how my perception of how my son and my wife and I behave around our coaches and the ball park in general...which has nothing to do with my sole interaction here on the HSBBWEB. So I will mark off how I think I would do based upon your table of behavior
* Player has been in a lot of trouble...no
# Player is a good citizen...yes
* Parents have caused a lot of problems in the past...no
# Parents are supportive but don’t cause problems...yes
* Players or parents who show any signs of disrespect...no
# Players or Parents seem to show respect to everyone...yes
* Player who is not respected by his team mates...no
# Player who is loved by his team mates and coaches...yes
* Players or Parents cut down previous coaches...yes, not ever at ballpark, but we have our opinions about certain types of coaches.
# Players or Parents who never cut anyone down...no, and never around the ball park
* Players or Parents have excuse for everything...no
# Players or Parents who don’t use many excuses, but can clearly address the reasonable excuse ie. He just pitched 2 days ago....yes
* Players or Parents are full of complaints...no, never to the coach. May discuss an issue with our son.
# Player or Parents who don’t complain even though they might have reason...we may question something if we don't have a clear picture.
* Players or parents who believe they have no weaknesses...no
# Players or Parents who understand there is room for improvementyes
* Players or Parents take up too much time on unimportant things (shoot the ****)...no
# Players or Parents who are friendly, but understand time constraints...yes
* Players or Parents who are overly satisfied with accomplishments...no
# Players or Parents who are confident, but understand there is much more to accomplish...yes
* Parents that need to know everything (Meddlers)...no, but it would be nice to get a roster, and a schedule
# Parents who get the inside information from their son rather than the coach....yes
* Players or Parents who think they do know everything...no, but as like eveeryone else, we have our opinions
# Too many questions is annoying – Too many answers are unbearable...never talk to the coach, unless he comes over and wants to talk to us.
* Player gives the impression he is a celebrity...not my son, he's to layed back
# Player understands he is what he is...yes, that's our son
* Parents give the impression their son is a celebrity...no way, our son wouldn't allow it
# Parents understand their son is what he is...yes, very proud of him
* Parents who need to discuss (with coaches) their son, or the team, on a daily basis...Very seldom, if ever speak to the coach, no need to.
# Parents who show interest, but don’t become a “Oh no, tell them I’m not in” person...no, but we reserve the right to left alone if we don't want to speak to someone
* Parents who give the impression that they are not going to “let their son” go it alone...yes, but we do not interfere in his activities
# Parents who show their confidence in their son to go it alone...yes, sent him to Australia, alone, and Florida alone and he wasn't even 18 yet.
* Parents that show they will get involved if things don’t go just the way they want...never, only if asked, or son is being abused
# Parents who remain consistent and realistic even when things are not going their way...son plays baseball, we don't
* Parents that show the potential to be vindictive if things don’t go their way....no, but we expect individuals to live up to their commitments
# Parents who never seem to have a bad word to say about anyone...no, recommendations work both ways...coaches need to remember that
I would like to see others here take the test and be honest about it.
Thanks PGStaff things don't always come out the way they appear sometimes.
Let's see how my perception of how my son and my wife and I behave around our coaches and the ball park in general...which has nothing to do with my sole interaction here on the HSBBWEB. So I will mark off how I think I would do based upon your table of behavior
* Player has been in a lot of trouble...no
# Player is a good citizen...yes
* Parents have caused a lot of problems in the past...no
# Parents are supportive but don’t cause problems...yes
* Players or parents who show any signs of disrespect...no
# Players or Parents seem to show respect to everyone...yes
* Player who is not respected by his team mates...no
# Player who is loved by his team mates and coaches...yes
* Players or Parents cut down previous coaches...yes, not ever at ballpark, but we have our opinions about certain types of coaches.
# Players or Parents who never cut anyone down...no, and never around the ball park
* Players or Parents have excuse for everything...no
# Players or Parents who don’t use many excuses, but can clearly address the reasonable excuse ie. He just pitched 2 days ago....yes
* Players or Parents are full of complaints...no, never to the coach. May discuss an issue with our son.
# Player or Parents who don’t complain even though they might have reason...we may question something if we don't have a clear picture.
* Players or parents who believe they have no weaknesses...no
# Players or Parents who understand there is room for improvementyes
* Players or Parents take up too much time on unimportant things (shoot the ****)...no
# Players or Parents who are friendly, but understand time constraints...yes
* Players or Parents who are overly satisfied with accomplishments...no
# Players or Parents who are confident, but understand there is much more to accomplish...yes
* Parents that need to know everything (Meddlers)...no, but it would be nice to get a roster, and a schedule
# Parents who get the inside information from their son rather than the coach....yes
* Players or Parents who think they do know everything...no, but as like eveeryone else, we have our opinions
# Too many questions is annoying – Too many answers are unbearable...never talk to the coach, unless he comes over and wants to talk to us.
* Player gives the impression he is a celebrity...not my son, he's to layed back
# Player understands he is what he is...yes, that's our son
* Parents give the impression their son is a celebrity...no way, our son wouldn't allow it
# Parents understand their son is what he is...yes, very proud of him
* Parents who need to discuss (with coaches) their son, or the team, on a daily basis...Very seldom, if ever speak to the coach, no need to.
# Parents who show interest, but don’t become a “Oh no, tell them I’m not in” person...no, but we reserve the right to left alone if we don't want to speak to someone
* Parents who give the impression that they are not going to “let their son” go it alone...yes, but we do not interfere in his activities
# Parents who show their confidence in their son to go it alone...yes, sent him to Australia, alone, and Florida alone and he wasn't even 18 yet.
* Parents that show they will get involved if things don’t go just the way they want...never, only if asked, or son is being abused
# Parents who remain consistent and realistic even when things are not going their way...son plays baseball, we don't
* Parents that show the potential to be vindictive if things don’t go their way....no, but we expect individuals to live up to their commitments
# Parents who never seem to have a bad word to say about anyone...no, recommendations work both ways...coaches need to remember that
I would like to see others here take the test and be honest about it.
Thanks PGStaff things don't always come out the way they appear sometimes.
RR,
It really wasn't meant to be a test, but thanks for showing some interest.
You sure are right about things not always being as they appear.
It really wasn't meant to be a test, but thanks for showing some interest.
You sure are right about things not always being as they appear.
TPM, I don't know.....did you behave yourself while negotiating? 
AParent. I think that a lot of us here, being current/former coaches, knowledgeable about the game and/or the recruitment process, and/or parents of stronger players get approached by a lot of the jerks ---- frequently just looking for support for their position.
We can take that opportunity to at least try to defuse the situation either by explaining what they're really asking for (such as my example above), offering a reason for the coach's actions for them to chew on, or giving them the 'life lesson' we might give our son in the same situation as well as the suggestion that it might be better for Junior to handle it with Coach himself.
Just don't give in to the temptation to argue (she repeated to herself)
AParent. I think that a lot of us here, being current/former coaches, knowledgeable about the game and/or the recruitment process, and/or parents of stronger players get approached by a lot of the jerks ---- frequently just looking for support for their position.
We can take that opportunity to at least try to defuse the situation either by explaining what they're really asking for (such as my example above), offering a reason for the coach's actions for them to chew on, or giving them the 'life lesson' we might give our son in the same situation as well as the suggestion that it might be better for Junior to handle it with Coach himself.
Just don't give in to the temptation to argue (she repeated to herself
)
TPM says:
At least you found out before it was too late. Feel better?
quote:Does that make me one of those parents? Poor coach.
At least you found out before it was too late. Feel better?
Ramrod: Thanks for the honest self-analysis. Your post, in my opinion, demonstrates that this HM moniker can be applied to both parent AND coach.
Just as a coach should choose his players and parents carefully so should the player and parents choose their coach carefully.
Kudos to you and your honest assessment.
Most would not consider my wife or me an HM type but I must admit that I agree with most all of your answers.
It's safe to say that all of us are very interested in our player's particular situation. We all want to help but some are better suited to actively help than others. Some parents have the diplomatic skills necessary to interact favorably with a coach, scout, or recruiter and acheive positive results. Others may not possess these skills and their results may be much less thsn desired.
It is up to the player and/or parent to know their strengths and weakness along with the same for the coach and others. If its likely that your imput is going to create a larger problem then wisely back off and regroup. On the other hand if you're confident that your involvement will have a positive impact then go forward. Be observant and act wisely.
Just as a coach should choose his players and parents carefully so should the player and parents choose their coach carefully.
Kudos to you and your honest assessment.
Most would not consider my wife or me an HM type but I must admit that I agree with most all of your answers.
It's safe to say that all of us are very interested in our player's particular situation. We all want to help but some are better suited to actively help than others. Some parents have the diplomatic skills necessary to interact favorably with a coach, scout, or recruiter and acheive positive results. Others may not possess these skills and their results may be much less thsn desired.
It is up to the player and/or parent to know their strengths and weakness along with the same for the coach and others. If its likely that your imput is going to create a larger problem then wisely back off and regroup. On the other hand if you're confident that your involvement will have a positive impact then go forward. Be observant and act wisely.
Ramrod: I just reviewed your "alpha" post from yesterday. Again I agree with you. You're admitting that you are an alpha male but one that has learned lessons in life and is now using your alpha qualities in a wise manner particularly in regards to helping your son. I wouldn't classify myself as an alpha male but I've certainly learned valuable lessons through the years from them and especially respect those that put their alpha qualities to good use.
gotwood 4sale
I guess i have been out of it too long. Never know I had to choose players and parents. If the kid can play I picked him. If the parent was a pain in the *** I told them to back off.
I guess i have been out of it too long. Never know I had to choose players and parents. If the kid can play I picked him. If the parent was a pain in the *** I told them to back off.
Sometimes it's as simple as knowing your place. Those that don't understand their place require more "maintenance".
I agree with choosing the coach, but then again if you get far enough you don't have that choice.
For most young players it's much more important what the recruiter thinks is HM than what the parent thinks is HM.
When I was a college coach one thing was well known by all our players...
It doesn't matter whether you like me... What's most important is whether I like you!!!!
Obviously I don't live my life that way, but in baseball things can be different. I actually did like most all of our players, most of the time, by the way.
I agree with choosing the coach, but then again if you get far enough you don't have that choice.
For most young players it's much more important what the recruiter thinks is HM than what the parent thinks is HM.
When I was a college coach one thing was well known by all our players...
It doesn't matter whether you like me... What's most important is whether I like you!!!!
Obviously I don't live my life that way, but in baseball things can be different. I actually did like most all of our players, most of the time, by the way.
Overseas Dad - Thanks for a HSBBWeb first for me.. when my professional life transfers directly to my other full time life (as a HSBBWeb fan). It reminds me of an interview I saw with Joe Montana many years ago. He said that from his perspective, when the 49r's won it was because the TEAM won; when they lost, it was a personal loss.
quote:Originally posted by OverseasDad:
Perhaps it's worth looking at success in the "real world". Jim Collins in his work on the role great leaders play in transforming good companies to great companies writes "... leaders blend the paradoxical combination of deep personal humility with intense professional will ... How do leaders manifest humility? They routinely credit others, external factors and good luck for their companies' success. But when results are poor, they blame themselves. They also act quitely, calmly and determinedly ... they are stoic in their resolve to do whatever it takes to produce great results."
Hopefully, we behave in this way and teach our sons likewise.