Evaluating pitchers

Just a guess, but I would think lower level hitters (high school and below) would tend to be more effected by seeing pitchers with different deliveries than an MLB hitter would. Again just a guess.

Thank you for your response, but your insight does not answer my question.   It seemed to me  since  deliveries and release points and stuff can be so different somebody  would have thought to keep up with how certain relievers do following certain starters, if there was anything consistant that some relievers do better following certain starters  than other starters even if just for the next couple of batters.  Somebody knows if they do or they don't keep figures on that. 

I am sure if they wanted to know this ( MLB) has the data to compile such.   They certainly use anything they can to get an edge.  However, major league hitters can adjust pitch to pitch . Bring in a side arm guy after an over the top flamer...... if the batter has trouble with side arm pitchers he is going to have trouble any time he faces that type pitcher regardless of when he enters the game.  IMHO

My grandson has not pitched in a while but wants to find out what he still has thinking about using it to get to college.  When he thinks he is back up  to par he plans to get some of the better high school hitters together to test himself against them,  Some of the baseballs he uses to practice are 4 or  5 years old. It ocurred to me these might not have as much life in them as new balls to make it look like they are not hitting the ball as hard against him as they may be. We want the truth. Does anyone know how fast and how much baseballs deteriorate if they are being stored indoors?  Kingsman

Kingsman posted:

My grandson has not pitched in a while but wants to find out what he still has thinking about using it to get to college.  When he thinks he is back up  to par he plans to get some of the better high school hitters together to test himself against them,  Some of the baseballs he uses to practice are 4 or  5 years old. It ocurred to me these might not have as much life in them as new balls to make it look like they are not hitting the ball as hard against him as they may be. We want the truth. Does anyone know how fast and how much baseballs deteriorate if they are being stored indoors?  Kingsman

So, the life of a 5 year old baseball is probably not on the list of important things to consider if your grandson is wanting to be recruited to play college baseball.  If you want the truth, I'd like to suggest your son get some new game quality baseballs to run his test, analysis and conclusion on his ability to get some of the better high school hitters out.  College showcases, camps, etc are going to be using new game quality baseballs when evaluating pitching/hitting/fielding talent not 5-year old baseballs.  Good luck! 

In 2017 when you first asked for advice, he was (at least) in ninth grade. That means he is (at least) a rising senior.

This was the advice given by a senior poster back in 4/17:

"First things first.

He hasn't played in a long time.

Get him signed up for whatever school, travel, or rec team he can get on.

See how he stacks up and whether he still likes the game."

By your last post, he hasn't done anything baseball-wise in the over two years since your last topic. 

Now, onto your questions.

During pre-HS years, one of the family pursuits was MILB; S and I (dragging M and D along) would arrive in time to stand outside the stadium and snag BP HRs. Over the years and hundreds of games, we collected hundreds and hundreds of balls. By the time he hit HS, the earliest balls were well over five years old. Never had an issue with old balls; so, no, the age of one's balls is irrelevant (now, if the balls got wet/waterlogged that is different).

You specifically said "he want[s] the truth."

Here's the truth: THERE IS NO WAY HE CAN USE BASEBALL "TO GET TO COLLEGE." PERIOD. FULL. STOP.

First, he clearly has no love or desire to play baseball (even at the HS level). Second, he has no baseball skill set to offer. Third, he has no measurables. Fourth, HE DOESN'T PLAY BASEBALL AND HASNT SINCE LITTLE LEAGUE. Fifth, he has taken no lessons to develop his skills. Sixth, you don't seem to want to understand that of 430,000 HS players, 38,000 go on to play college NCAA baseball - and your grandson isn't even one of those 430,000. These aren't odds stacked against him; a power ball lottery ticket has a better chance.

Look, this may come off as harsh, but it's an absolute insult to not do anything in baseball - not play, not take lessons, not ANYTHING - and think he can somehow, someway use baseball to leverage his way into college. (Also, there is no demonstrated understanding of how hard HS players must work just to have a whack at college ball; much less what it takes to play CB.)

He wants the truth? Become a fan, support the HS team, get good grades in college, play catch with his son or daughter when the time comes. 

You guys are  all so great, You even remember me back several years. 

Gooseegg  wrote:

You specifically said "he want[s] the truth."

Here's the truth: THERE IS NO WAY HE CAN USE BASEBALL "TO GET TO COLLEGE." PERIOD. FULL. STOP.

First, he clearly has no love or desire to play baseball (even at the HS level). Second, he has no baseball skill set to offer. Third, he has no measurables. I’ll get to that in a minute.

Fourth, HE DOESN'T PLAY BASEBALL AND HASNT SINCE LITTLE LEAGUE. Fifth, he has taken no lessons to develop his skills. Sixth, you don't seem to want to understand that of 430,000 HS players, 38,000 go on to play college NCAA baseball - and your grandson isn't even one of those 430,000. These aren't odds stacked against him; a power ball lottery ticket has a better chance.  While this is correct. It would also be true of  Sandy Kaufax who never played baseball at all till he went to college on a basketball scholarship if you know his story. I remember the 1963 World Series very well.

Look, this may come off as harsh, but it's an absolute insult to not do anything in baseball - not play, not take lessons, not ANYTHING - and think he can somehow, someway use baseball to leverage his way into college.

I appreciate your frankness. But in the interest of time I did not tell the whole story as it was not part of my question.

First, pitching is a phenomena that is not computerizable. 2 guys with the same stuff, same speed of fast ball. One gets batters out, the other one gets knocked around. One has been working all his youth to be good,….the other just picks up the glove and goes out there and gets people out.  Pitchers are born not made. Guidance is important but a coach can’t create with lessons what isn’t there.

My grandson never has really been a fastball pitcher as many great pitchers were not. There have always been plenty of pitchers faster than him when he played.  But they didn’t get people out like he did. He finished little league with a ratio of batters to hard hit balls of 12-1. When you factor out hits off pitches he was experimenting with  he determined didn’ t work for him and quit,  and hits off broken and wrong deliveries you can see in videos when he gave them up back when we didn’t even know what a correct delivery was for him, his real ratio was 20 or 25-1. He has one overhand delivery that he just used on 2 travel ball games that never gave up hard hit ball at all no matter what he was throwing.  One game was one of his 3 no hitters.

When I say hard hit balls I don’t mean hits. A liner to center field or third is an out but still a hard hit ball you can judge how they may be getting to your pitcher. A weakly hit ball that finds ‘where they aint’ is a hit but the pitcher did his job.

If he were half that good now at the high school level that would still be 10-12 to 1.

I have monitored major league, college and high school pitchers since I discovered this about him and the best pitchers at any level are rarely better than 4 -1 over a whole season, most of the best between 3-4, some not even 3. If he really turns out to be 10-12 to 1  against quality high school hitters. If he were only a third or a fourth that good against college hitters he is as good or better than any scholarship pitchers on the Ole Miss Rebels or any other  college  team and could certainly get a scholarship when they try him out.

He is a fantastic athlete. When he quit baseball he became a pole vaulter. This last year, his junior year, he set a new state 4A record by a foot, 14 ½ feet, won  the state gold medal and wound  up the top vaulter in Mississippi in  all classes for 2019. He long jumped in street clothes enough to have been one of the 8 state finalists this year. He is going to do that also his Sr year.

He will get a scholarship in track and field, but he wants to be an architect and that is very expensive and those are only partial scholarships. He needs another sport to give him a full ride. We believe baseball can be that and that is why we want to find out what he has really got against some good high school batters. If he is still 10-12 to 1 against them, if he showed to be even half that good with college hitters in a try out, he would be the best pitcher that team has ever had ready to take a team to a conference championship somewhere.

It is sort of bold to tell a college baseball coach,  “Bring on  your best hitters and let me show you how I can consistently get them out”. But that is basicly what he has to do  if he is going to get that other scholarship. And I believe he can do it IF it turns out he is that good.  So you see I am not as crazy as I may sound part of the time.

Absolutely nothing he did in Little League is measurable and quantifiable towards high school baseball. It’s laughable to think anything anyone did in LL has  any relationship to determining college prospects.   Comparing  him to possibly being Sandy Koufax is comical. If you think a fastball doesn’t matter you’re uninformed and delusional. Which great pitchers other than knuckleballers didn’t have a fastball?

You want him to play a second sport to gain more scholarship money? You want a former Little Leaguer to get a baseball scholarship? There are only 11.7 for the entire team. A lot of all everything high school players only get 25%. The few college baseball players who play two sports usually are only receiving a ride from their other sport.

Maybe he can dress as the team mascot and pole vault over the dugout for between inning entertainment.

To use an old phrase ... Where’s the camera? Where’s Allan Funt? Am I on Candid Camera? 

Just a thought.  Find somebody to catch a bullpen and post up some video.  There have been plenty on this forum that have been through the recruiting process that would give an honest assessment of whether or not he might could play at the next level. 

Good luck to your grandson.   Baseball and track and field are both spring sports, right?

Chasing90 posted:

Just a thought.  Find somebody to catch a bullpen and post up some video.  There have been plenty on this forum that have been through the recruiting process that would give an honest assessment of whether or not he might could play at the next level. 

Good idea.  While you're at it, tweet the video to @PitchingNinja.

I was thinking the same thing as I read the reply.  Baseball and track are both spring sports and no way any college baseball coach lets a guy do both.  Plus unless your grandson is going out of state hardly no in-state schools give scholarships for baseball in Mississippi.  I wish him well but you understand every kid or parent on here that has a kid pitching you just slapped in the face when you said it does not take much effort to pitch well.  It is one the hardest skills in sports in my opinion and I have coach most sports.  To think a kid can take off for 5 years and come back and be college level is ridiculous.  Especially if he is not a flame thrower.  To quote stats from Little League to show his effectiveness is also ridiculous.  That is like comparing grapes to watermelons.  If you can make a ball move at all in LL, you can be effective.  But in college or even HS you better be more than a one trick pony.  Good luck.

Baseball is not the solution to your grandson's financial dilemma. Only basketball and football offer full college scholarships. Regardless of your grandson's skills or interest in baseball, (1) most baseball scholarships are not full scholarships, they are more likely 25%; (2) performing as a scholarship athlete in college, plus being a student, is more than a full-time job, you have to be 100% committed to the sport, and (3) doing an architecture degree is extremely time-intensive, and coaches at schools with scholarship players discourage their players from doing that kind of major.  You can look at the rosters of baseball teams with scholarships and see what the players are majoring in - it's not architecture.  So, even if he still can pitch like he did in LL, it's not going to help him with his goals.

Kingsman, first, congratulations on a smart and talented grandson. 

You seem to be big into deductive reasoning.  But, there are serious flaws with some of your number extractions.  If your grandson had a 20 or 25 to 1 ratio of hard hit balls in LL, you cannot deduct that he will have nearly half of that at the college level. The funnel from LL to college is far more exponential than that, as is the constant curve of improvement of both pitchers and hitters.  

Scholarships - in baseball, it is extremely rare for a player to get a 100% scholarship.  In order to do so as a pitcher, you must exhibit top tier measurables and proven in-game consistent success against top-tier college level hitters.  You must have already proven you are capable of withstanding the rigors of a lengthy season and many innings on the arm without fatigue.  I won't discount the very remote chance that your grandson can somehow come into a college game and, as you describe, get a few guys out if he follows the right type of starting pitcher at the right time with the right arm angle.  But that is absolutely 100% not the type of pitcher that they give significant scholarship money to.   They only do so for the proven studs who they know they can count on for extended use. The norm for baseball scholarships is much closer to 25% and the type of pitcher you describe, if successful, is much more likely to be a non-scholarship player.  Add on top of that the participation in track & field, creating commitment challenges for both coaches as well as scheduling conflicts, and the odds are zero.

You say a pitcher is born, not made.  Yes, you have to have a certain level of natural gifts to succeed.  But, the days are long gone where a college level pitcher is performing purely with his natural abilities.  Every successful college pitcher today has gone through extensive pitcher-specific training to maximize his abilities, usually well before entering his first year of college.  Is it possible for your son to make up some ground?  Sure but not enough to warrant a full scholarship up front and particularly not if he doesn't come into the equation with a base of high velocity to start with. 

You are severely underestimating the talent level and abilities of college hitters.  They face plenty of different arm angles and they are generally VERY good at barreling the baseball.  Do some arm angles give some players fits still?  Sure, but only a few and only when combined with some combination of excellent movement, location and/or velo.

And, with track, how will he address the overlap of seasons, practice and training times, let alone handle both along with a rigorous academic schedule?  BTW, although he excelled in HS as a pole vaulter, his current vaulting height will not even come close to putting him at the competitive level at the higher college ranks.  So, he will need to fully commit to continued improvement on that front in order to maintain the scholarship he was offered for that focus.  He is far better off looking to supplement the payment of tuition through other means.  I'm sure this "specialty pitcher" thing is fun to talk about with him, but if you want reality, it's just not.

Please do keep us informed... this is possibly the king of stories when it comes to something we would LOVE to be proven wrong with.

 PS - sorry, I was putting this together while the few recent posts were made... some repeat of same message.

It would also be true of  Sandy Koufax who never played baseball at all till he went to college on a basketball scholarship if you know his story. I remember the 1963 World Series very well.

i don’t know where you got your information. Koufax played high school baseball. He was better at basketball. He started college on a basketball scholarship and walked on for baseball. This was before overlap in college sports seasons and year round training. 

In his one year of college ball Koufax struck out 50 in 32 innings with his 93 mph fastball. Throwing 93 in the 50’s was really bringing it. Throwing that hard was what made his vicious curve so effective. 

Throwing is easy, throwing fast isn't and pitching is hard, period. 

Kingsman, rather than trying to mine a dry hole, let me try an alternate idea.

How were his grades and scores? While you noted that a track scholarship would not cover enough financially, there is a certain level of college which give more in financial aid per recipient in the form of grants than other powerhouses give to athletes. Since he's the top pole vaulter in Mississippi, even though not top ten nationally, if he has the grades and scores, track may be the way to approach those schools.

Now, since he has already graduated, matriculating in 2019 isn't possible; but 2020 could be possible.

This could allow you to leverage a budding asset (PV) rather than leveraging no asset.

The entitlement to not only a scholarship, but a full rude is bizarre. Kids getting drafted by MLB teams are only getting 30% rides. But you want to use baseball, a sport he has not played in years, to get free tuition. 

I would see where track takes me and if that doesn't pan out head to a juco where he can still major in architecture, probably compete in track and field and most importantly do it at a fraction of the cost.

Going to a college and telling the coach to give you his best is not even an option. A school like Ole Miss has 8k kids who want to do the same thing. They don't have time for that. Email goes straight to trash. 

I am overwhelmed at the response  from so many people. Even in disagreement sometime I appreciate the intent of everyone.

I will try to address all the comments needing response in one  reply:

First, he will be a senior graduating in 2020. As a pole vaulter his goal is to set a new state record for all high school athletes in the state beyond 16 ft 6 ¼ in. He is at 15ft now in practice. So he has several years to improve to be competitive in college competition before he finishes there.

As to pitching, in no way did I intend to disparage anyone working on improving as a pitcher. It is the most difficult position….it is 60% of your defense…one man. It takes a special person to be able to do it. The focus, the pressure is all on him constantly. Many had the capacity and control to be good pitchers, but they did not have the temperment and nerves for it. My grandson found long ago he has that temperment. He was fantastic as a reliever. I don’t know how many times he came in with the game on the line only 10 or 12 years old and shut the other team down.  This is why pitchers are born and not made.  And I have observed the pitchers on the high school team were for the most part the same ones who were the pitchers in little league. And up against my grandsons records they are just as effective…or ineffective now as they were then. No reason to think my grandson would not be just as effective now as he was then and do just as well once he gets back into pitching form since a blazing fastball never was his ace in the hole even though he is not slow by any means and he could get faster if he were working at it. When he cranks up I am scared to catch him anymore.

To clarify someone’s math: 20-25 to 1 was about what he was in little league…when the other winning pitchers were 6 or 7 to 1 then. Now in high school I find they are not any better than 3-4 to 1…and still the best the high school team has and are winners. As I said, I have monitored major league, college and high school pitchers and the best pitchers at any level are rarely better than 4 -1 over a whole season, most of the best between 3-4, some not even 3.  Half as good for him now at high school level would be 10-12 to 1. If the other high school pitchers are about half as good a record now as THEY had in little league,  Why is it unreasonable to believe my grandson would be also?....And that would be 10-12 to 1 against good high school hitters. More than twice as  good as anyone else on the high school team. And if he was a third or a fourth that good at the college level he would still be as good as the best pitchers on the college team and he would have his scholarship just like they have theirs.

Time elapsed since he last pitched is meaningless. He has pitched to me on and off over the 5 years since he competed. But one name debunks the importance of this: Sandy Kaufax, who was arguably the greatest pitcher of all time, went years without picking up a baseball in his supposedly forming years until he began in college….and he WAS a fast ball pitcher too! If you got it , you got it. If you aint you aint. I agree if he succeeds it will be one of the most amazing success stories of all time in pitching but that is what I believe can happen until the results prove me otherwise.

Yea, a fastball can be important but some of you may remember Stu Miller. He died at 87 in 2015. His fast ball was in the 80’s …about what my grandson would get up to but he led the American league twice in saves.

Some wanted to see video. I could get that but don’t think it would tell much. The only real test is what good hitters do with you no matter what it looks like on film. The ball does move around a lot in catching him;  and some hitters is what  he needs to get together to find out what he really has…or doesn’t. 

Conflicts between track season and baseball, sure. But if he is as good as we think he might be, he would be the best pitcher on most college teams. Are they going to not give him a scholarship and keep him off the team when he would be the best they’ve got just because they have to share him with another sport? The athletic director may have something to say about that with a potential representative to the US olympic team at his college and a boy who can take you to your conference baseball championship. Conflicts can always be worked out…or another school will work them out if one doesn’t .

And if the athletic dept can’t get him a full ride on two sports, there are ways to lean on those who control the grant money to get things done.  You all know it happens in every sport every season when a college needs somebody bad enough.  I am not telling you anything you don’t know. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO HOW GOOD YOU REALLY ARE AGAINST YOUR COMPETITION AND ANYTHING CAN BE SOLVED THAT GETS IN THE WAY OF YOU GETTING HIM.

I don’t know what it is about his pitching that makes him a great pitcher. But he has shown he is and would be. I hope we will find out this year.

I’m not going to bother to address your grandson’s baseball potential anymore. Until he proves otherwise on a big stage it’s little or none. His chances of playing college baseball are slim and none. Your ignorance regarding baseball, is mind boggling. Stu Miller pitched fifty plus years ago. Do you think there just may have been some advancement in average velocity over fifty years? You have absolutely zero clue what it takes to become a college baseball player. Maybe you’re just trolling to see who will continue to bite. If so, shame on me. I’m beginning to wonder if you’re a teenage internet troll.

You provided one of the best tips he’s not a college pitching prospect. You’re still catching him. When my son got to sixteen I started becoming afraid to catch him. I played college baseball and I started wondering if I could pick up, block or get out of the way of every pitch because of the velocity and movement. And his velocity was still developing.

Grandparents and Parents are supposed to be their grandkids and kids biggest fans. But, this is really something else. I am happy for the lesson on how to not be delusional. 

I know my son can pole vault. I know he can pole vault well. He has done it in track and field at high school. BUT, he will not be a pole vaulter for a college and he does not/ did not love that sport. He DID love baseball and it showed. 

Thank you for the entertaining read. 

The posts are written so awkwardly that they do FEEL like a delusional grandpa writing them, and most people aren't so clever to pull off that kind of trolling. Considering the poster also posted years ago, maybe it is all real. Let's say it is for now.

It's hilarious how you say IT ALL COMES DOWN TO HOW GOOD YOU REALLY ARE AGAINST YOUR COMPETITION AND ANYTHING CAN BE SOLVED THAT GETS IN THE WAY OF YOU GETTING HIM.  and yet your grandson has faced absolutely no competition since Little League...why doesn't have actually play some baseball and prove what he can do? Otherwise you sound ridiculous continually asserting that he should easily handle top high school players because he did well as a pitcher when he was 10. Do you see the missing logic there?

Kingsman a very quick way to get somewhat of an idea of what you are saying is accurate is to try and get your grandson hooked up with a team playing in this summers  PG WWBA tournament in ATL ( I guess its still there this summer?).  Teams are always looking for pitchers for this tournament.   There is a decent chance he will see some good competition.  One area I do disagree with is "One has been working all his youth to be good,….the other just picks up the glove and goes out there and gets people out.  Pitchers are born not made. Guidance is important but a coach can’t create with lessons what isn’t there."   NO pitcher, zero, zilch, just picks up a glove and goes out there and is successful.  Thats like saying the horse who won the Belmont Saturday (which speaking of genetics was 100% bred to run races) could have won even if it had not trained, been in similiar situations with crowds, other horses, etc... The same could be said for a successful pitcher.   Every single pitcher that you will see in the CWS has spent years working on his skill level, arm strength, mechanics,  etc...     My son is a very athletic RHP, but I promise you without a tremendous amount of work and training for years  could NOT go out and pole vault successfully.    

Shoot, take the kid to a showcase and let him rip. He’ll face plenty of college recruits there and when he does well  he’ll get offers right away. All he has to do is show up. That’s what my kids both did. You really don’t need advice here; we can’t sign him. But I bet there are thirty coaches at Headfirst or a similar showcase who’d love to watch him pitch. You will need to let them know you’re coming though. 

smokeminside posted:

Shoot, take the kid to a showcase and let him rip. He’ll face plenty of college recruits there and when he does well  he’ll get offers right away. All he has to do is show up. That’s what my kids both did. You really don’t need advice here; we can’t sign him. But I bet there are thirty coaches at Headfirst or a similar showcase who’d love to watch him pitch. You will need to let them know you’re coming though. 

In the email you tell the college coaches you’re coming don’t forget to provide his LL velocity with the MLB equivalent. 

I do have a very important qualifying question. Did your grandson make the Little League all star team?

And the fact he has a funky arm slot that worked 6 years ago to get out 24 of every 25 batters he faced.

Kingsman, I was serious about getting him to a showcase or camp at a school he’s interested in. You said you wanted him to face good competition and he should. The coaches at these events are looking for talent and they’re the ones pulling the trigger on offers, not us hsbbw denizens. THey also don’t have extra time for private  tryouts unless they’ve  seen him pitch before and like what they see so much that that they invite him to one.  Your grandson could be a special player but there’s no way you’re gonna know if he doesn’t face real competition and soon. I know I’m repeating a lot of what’s been said already but you need to get the kid out of this frying pan and into that fire to see what he’s capable of. And you do NOT have a lot of time. I’d also suggest a plan B. Every contributor on this board had at least a plan B for their sons and some of them even had to use it (including me). 

I am  with you a 100%. Its past time for talk. Its time to get up to form and then take what ever he has got in front of the lions to see who gets who. I am not familiar with this show case some one wrote about. It sounded like  all colleges with baseball teams hold them  and if there was a college he really wanted to get to, he could go to their show case when he's ready and show them what he has got. Is that really correct? I don't know.

Also someone wrote about some discrepency  in what I said about him being the top high school pole vaulter in Mississippi  in 2019.  I do not see the discrepency in what you said vs what I said, except he did not do that as a Senior. He will be a senior  this fall.  Kingsman

I forgot someone asked when in little league did he ever make all stars. Yes he was a county  all star every year in Dizzy Dean baseball. When they started pitching at age 9 he threw his first no hitter against other all star teams at the Dizzy Dean state championship that year.  He threw 3 all together another one was also against travel ball competition and he should have had a fourth at age 12 his last year but another coach who was friend of his father tried to help him by teaching him to throw a cut fastball that day. He could throw anything you taught him, went out and used it in the game that day and finally gave up the one hard hit ball of the day off of it. I often wonder if he had thrown one of his regular pitches at that moment would he have had a fourth. He didn't need any help. He was doing fine with what he had developed.

He experimented with a lot of stuff. Even had a knuckle change up  he could get over.  But then a good hitter reloaded on his approach to the ball when he saw it wasn't going to be a fast pitch and drove it into right field. We learned a lesson that just because you can get a strange pitch over doesn't mean it is going to fool anybody and he put that pitch on the ash heap.....and later the cut fast ball after it cost him another no hitter. We kept book on ratio of batters to hard hit balls of the pitches he threw and when a pitch would begin to slip into poorer ratios off it  or too many balls off it rather than strikes  he would discard it.  That's  how he always kept sharp and ahead of his game.

Kingsman, camps are held at colleges/universities and most of the time only the coaches for that particular school are  there.  They're usually one or two days and the kids that go are basically auditioning for that school's program.  Sometimes D1 programs will hold camps that include other division coaches so kids who may not be d1 caliber aren't completely wasting their time.  Even if a parent or player is extremely confident about the level they're shooting for it's a good idea (I think; others may differ) to go to camps that are at your dream level as well as camps that include coaches from other levels.

Showcases usually have more kids "auditioning" and many more coaches at the event. Some showcases have upwards of 70 different college coaches looking for players and the events are usually 2-3 days long.

For pitchers each type of event will have bullpens where the players' velocity is recorded and they may also pitch in game situations.  Field players will work out in the outfield or at shortstop.  Catchers will get a chance to catch of course, and pitchers may pitch in two consecutive days.

As you are researching what college camps/showcases you might take your grandson to you HAVE to get a video ready that shows him pitching AND has a radar gun visible in the video that records his velocity. In my opinion the video is a must.  You need to send that video to the coaches of the programs your grandson imagines he might play for.  Ask the coaches if they have a camp this summer and what showcases they are planning to recruit at.  If they see a video of your grandson and they send him an email or text that they're interested then do what they ask for.

I'm not an expert on recruiting at the level you see your grandson at, so I can't help you with particular showcases that would allow him shine at the at level.  One good alternative no matter what level a kid is at is Headfirst.  The events you still have time to attend are in June, July and August, and the fall ones might be okay, too. Headfirst  is either in California, Long Island, NY, or Florida.  Google Headfirst baseball showcases and you'll find what you need.

I hope someone else will chime in with a little more information about stuff like WWBA.  And I second Chasing 90s idea:

Just a thought.  Find somebody to catch a bullpen and post up some video.  There have been plenty on this forum that have been through the recruiting process that would give an honest assessment of whether or not he might could play at the next level. 

This method would be the cheapest and most efficient way to get help about whether a specific college might be interested in your son. Chasing 90 means post the video HERE, to this site. You'll get an accurate assessment of your grandson's talents immediately.  The video is also important because Coaches want to see stuff like that video and they want to know as much as possible about their recruits via personal emails before they go looking for them at whatever event they're at.

As they say, time is of the essence.

this thread is gold...yes lets recommend that this kid from Mississippi who needs a duel scholarship from college to be able manage the cost of it, who hasn't played in 5 or however many years but was a dizzy dean super star and obviously had a family full of analytics experts should jump on the old airplane and travel to Stanford or long island for a showcase. This is a dumpster fire with zero chance of being successful outside of wasting money they obviously don't have. 

Sorry to be the grumpy old man but you have better chance of just showing up at a PRO open invite and going directly to the farm team - research Syd Finch for motivation, the probabilities of success are about the same. 

Wait, where is Bob...this kid should get an invite the area code games if he has the 6th tool...

Old School, I didn't notice in the thread that they didn't have the money to pursue this.  There are a lot of words people have shared so I might have missed it.  My point was that if he's serious about getting the kid seen then he needs to go to where the coaches are, and he needs to let them know he's coming via emails, with a video attached.  He'd get better guidance if he'd send video to a few of the folks here first.  That's it.

smokeminside posted:

 

I'm not an expert on recruiting at the level you see your grandson at, so I can't help you with particular showcases that would allow him shine at the at level.  One good alternative no matter what level a kid is at is Headfirst.  The events you still have time to attend are in June, July and August, and the fall ones might be okay, too. Headfirst  is either in California, Long Island, NY, or Florida.  Google Headfirst baseball showcases and you'll find what you need.

I hope someone else will chime in with a little more information about stuff like WWBA. 

 

The WWBA is a bad idea for 50% of the field to begin with and those kids play year round. 

In State tuition at Ole Miss and MSST are about 8k a year. If they can afford to drop 2500 on a weekend at Headfirst something tells me they can afford in state tuition. 

In our town football started at age 9. Mine played soccer until 9 when it started. If he asked about a soccer scholarship now  I would probably take him back to the field where I would take him directly to the medical tent and have him checked. 

After reading this thread - I noticed not once did I see that this is something that the grandson wants.  I might of missed that, but is he aware of these plans?

2005 thread on majoring in architecture and playing baseball:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...s-with-good-baseball

If you google "majoring architecture baseball roster" you can see what schools have architecture majors on their rosters.  It's mostly D3s, with no scholarships.  If the point of this is to afford college for architecture, then all the stuff about evaluation is irrelevant.

Smoke, I know your response was sincere, but I think the point that several of us have made was that if anyone involved was serious the kid would have actually, you know, played baseball at some point in recent years. Getting him in front of people is great but he has to have something to show. He hasn't pitched since he was a kid.

I would think we are being messed with except you can look up the Mississippi track state championships and see the kid's name.  I won't put it on here but he seems to be a decent high school pole vaulter.  I just don't see his pole vaulting getting much attention in larger colleges.  I think he is a small college pole vaulter yet granddad thinks he is a D1 baseball player after sitting out for 6 years.  I'm with PABaseball.  Pretty much every juco in Mississippi is free if you have decent grades not adding in Track.  Go that route.  If you are really serious, almost all of the jucos in Mississippi will give you a tryout for baseball.  Just don't tell them you haven't played in 6 years because they would laugh their heads off.  If he is throwing upper 80's with control, pm me and I will get you a juco scholarship tomorrow.  Seriously.

His parents had hired a company to act as agents to get him into college. We haven’t told them about pitching because he has not gotten into the mind to find out yet if he still has anything.  Several SEC schools and Conference USA schools have graduate schools in architecture and with full athletic programs.

As to why he never played high school ball. He did try out a couple of times in Junior high but apart from pitching he was only average in other aspects of the game…good but nothing special, and they never tried anybody out as pitchers. I guess they thought they could just take hard throwers and make them pitchers. And he had some conflict issues with some of the other players when they were all allstars in little league that carried over. Of course as you all know high school football and baseball has a lot of ‘politics’ involved as to who gets to play and his family were not the ‘right’ people. But I have gotten him to pitch to me over the years. His very good control has always come back. He is really tall and lanky and just naturally throws hard now.

It has gotten too dangerous for me to try to catch him anymore the speed it is and the way the ball moves. I just get behind the backstop net and hold the mitt in place now.

I would agree with Pitching Fan on his vaulting but he has another track season to go get the all time state record for all classes his Sr year. He is getting some coaching from a former Olympic vaulter. But it is plain he is not going to get his education just on his pole vaulting. And Juco is a good idea. That may be what he can afford to start out. As to speed, I said once before I don’ t think he will ever make it as a fastball pitcher. He was never the fastest in little league, only the best at getting playable balls. So his speed would not impress you and as I also said no coach can tell how good he really might be until he starts making his best hitters look bad. Pitching greatness is an intangible. We discussed that before.

This is unbelievable. Absolute nonsense. I wish I knew we didn’t need to invest so much time and money on baseball training.  My son was quite the little league player. That’s where we should have stopped. Why did we waste all our time??? 

Ridiculous.