Fond Farewell

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The folks at...



...The American Furniture Manufacturers Association are really going to miss him!


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gotwood, that has to be one of your best.

Is it acceptable for a "great" coach to quit on his team mid-season ?

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
Is it acceptable for a "great" coach to quit on his team mid-season ?

Why? Who needs to accept it?

If you recall POP named his son as his success or last year and Pat, the son, has been running most of the practice sessions. It is not like he left and there is no coach.

JEEZ, I almost fainted when I saw the title of this thread. I thought TR was announcing his own retirement from this website...

CPLZ

For one, any of his recruits.

He is a great coach, great motivator, etc but you don't quit until the end of the season period!

06

That may be a possibility soon

Bob Knight: great coach.
But, I think he changed the game of basketball from one where the coach displayed a demeanor like Coach Wooden to one where they scream and holler on EVERY call (does that get old or what?)
Not hardly any of them can coach as well as Knight, but any guy can throw a fit over there on the sideline.
thoughts?

He was what he was and I can tell I would have no problem with a son of mine playing for him---his players become men and get their degrees

quote:

He was what he was

Profound............

1st ballot Bully Hall of Famer. How many people has he shot, 2 or 3? He's a slob egomaniacal celebrity who would sooner run over you as drive around. I wouldn't pick him up hitchhiking in a blizzard. 1st round A******.

Dad04

Not trying to be

People can have whatever opinion they want when it comes to Bob Knight. I never liked his act, but others swear he is truly a great guy (not the U of Indiana President) Maybe he is!

To me... much worse than Bob Knight... are the young coaches around the country trying to copy him. And I'm not talking about graduation rates.

He's a great coach who had his demons. We've all got 'em, some just aren't as visible.

This whole idea that someone owes anything to anyone more than what the contract states is just wrong. The only thing you owe anybody is what you agree on. Knight agreed that if he coached basketball it would be at Tech, and Tech agreed to pay him for coaching. Knights only obligations are to not violate that contract, and while coaching, do so to the best of his abilities.

If he wants to walk away, who are we to pass judgement?

What if he would have quit on his troops?

What if these guys quit?



And what would have happened if this guy would have bailed out on his players?



YOU DO NOT QUIT ON YOUR TEAM WITH TIME LEFT IN THE SEASON!

He quit because he "was tired". Hopefully, no Tech players get tired the rest of the season.

Armies and countries are not basketball teams...let's get a little perspective. And if you know anything about military history, there are several instances where Patton put his glory above his "team" and cost thousands of Americans their lives. He, like Bobby Knight, was great at what he did, but had his demons also...many quite similar.

And I, and I can confidently say, along with a majority of Americans, could give a rats pitooty if Tom Coughlin quits or stays, it doesn't matter.

The "you do not quit on your team" argument is one of morals and values. The problem with morals and values arguments is that they are ambigious and generally shaped to fit a circumstance. When Bobby Knight announces that he quit to go coach another college, I'll light the BBQ you want to roast him with. Until then, this is still America and no one has to live up to anyone elses morals or values.

I'll guess every player recruited to TT knew there would be a point where the son took over. They may only be surprised it's during the season. I look at it like a September call up for a rookie coach.

Knight made some mistakes. But I'd let my son play for him. His players become disciplined and graduate. A couple of years ago when Knight made the news for grabbing one of his TT players, my son's (7th grade at the time) observation was, "What's the big deal? The player is disrespecting his coach. He's not looking him in the eye when he's being talked to."

Knight didn't hide who he was from anyone. Afterall, he requested to be buried head first so the IU president could kiss his (rear). There are a lot of college coaches who treat their kids just like Knight in practice. You just don't see the demeanor on the sideline during games.

There are coaches who say Knight is the master of understanding the game of basketball. He's the mad scientist who can't handle the game not being played perfectly. I'd say perfection is a great goal.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
And if you know anything about military history,

And I, and I can confidently say, along with a majority of Americans, could give a rats pitooty if Tom Coughlin quits or stays, it doesn't matter.

Now here is a great coach, W/L, 966/181




My dad was over there and taught me a lot about military history, thank you.

I hate the Giants but I was making a point!

"Until then, this is still America and no one has to live up to anyone elses morals or values."

I do have someone to answer to



I will follow his lead on my morals and values.

You won't change my mind on this one. I have coach youth baseball for 18yrs and never walked out on my kids.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
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The folks at...



...The American Furniture Manufacturers Association are really going to miss him!


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That's very funny!!

TR, you're stuck here for life!

quote:

Originally posted by threeboysdad:
I do have someone to answer to



I will follow his lead on my morals and values.

You won't change my mind on this one. I have coach youth baseball for 18yrs and never walked out on my kids.

That's wonderful that you have something to guide you, I really do mean that. That however, does not give you the right to hold others to your personal choices, and especially not to condemn them for choices that are personal to them.

In about another 9 years you'll have coached as long as I have now, as if that has anything to do with anything.

Bobby Knight acted on the sidelines during games like he did during practices. He was old school who never got caught up in the public image issues that other coaches do.

In today's society you would be run out of town faster than you came in if you acted like Knight does on the sideline - is it right? Who's to say because it has worked. His record does speak for itself.

One coach who is considered to be one of the all time greats is Duke coach Mike Krzykwski (I butchered the spelling). I have read every book published by him or about him. I love the way he gets the best out of his players. In practice he is demanding (then again he did play and learn under Knight) and pretty hardcore but in games he's not that bad. But you do need to watch the games and see how intense he is. His players accept this method because they know he cares for them.

Most (not all) college coaches in all sports are hard core in practice. Just not all are like Knight was on the sideline. You always knew where you stood with him. If he didn't like you you knew it - if he liked you you knew it as well.

People want to take his bullwhip news conference and make it into something racial because he had black players. I didn't see it that way - I saw it as he had players who needed to be "whipped" into shape to play the game the right way. I doubt he ever saw if a player was white or black. He could care less about skin color.

Some kids do respond well to this type of coach and need this type of coach. I know I would because my high school football coach was really hardcore and I loved it. There were times I couldn't stand him or even liked him but right now almost 20 years later I would run through a wall for him.

If you can convince your players you care about them and want the best for them you can basically do almost anything. Bobby Knight proved he cared about his players and to me that is enough.

Half time talk

Hunting

More Bobby

What a thought-provoking thread! First of all, I think HSBBW would be a poorer place without TR. I know I and some others have nit-picked with him in the past, but that's what families do. They gripe and move on. The HSBBW family needs you, TR.

Second, Bobby Knight to me epitomizes the win-at-all-cost mentality. I appreciate his fierceness and his desire to win, but I just think for every Bobby Knight there's 10 other examples of guys who won without the drama. Just not necessary. But that's my opinion.

Finally--quitting on your team mid-season. Hargrove of the Mariners did that and it surprised me, that's for sure. But who am I to judge his situation? I'm reminded of a story of a young man who rode the subway in New York, and there was a middle-aged gentleman in the same car being quite rude to all the passengers. "Don't sit next to me!" "Can you turn down your music?" He was particularly intolerant and unfriendly.

What a mean person thought the young man observing this, until another passenger whispered to him..

"..forgive him, his son just died in an automobile accident today."

PG,
Are you going to tell me that if we had a microphone rolling around you all the time that you would never say anything that later might make you cringe or cause you embarassment?

Also, did you spend any time looking for anything positive about Knight? It seems most of his players have a deep respect for him, including basketballs most respected coach, Krzyzewski, who still travels with Knight on speaking engagements.

I would hope that no one presents as one sided a view of you as you have of Knight, because that wouldn't be very fair, would it? Taking selective snippets of someones life, compiling them and then present it as a reflective portrait of the person is downright twisted.

People who say the media only reports the negative and distorts the truth to present their slant, have only to look in their mirror to see where that motivation comes from. The man was not a cheat, a liar, a thief...he paid his taxes, raised a nice family, worked hard, succeeded in his craft, gave back to his community, was a patriot, and obviously was deeply emotional about his players, team and responsibilities.

Instead of treating people as if life were about a 4th grade popularity contest, why don't we do it based on the body of actual work?

I think Merlin Olson and FTD will probably miss him too, specially if he was what he WAS?!

Agree with TR...great coach...took care of kids...demanded character...didn't put up with spoiled brats.

Always liked him.... always will...he was old school and as he said.

He wants to be buried upside down...so all his detractors ...will no what to do!!!!!

I never much cared for Knight, either. My own personal opinion is that "old school" coaching is to often a euphamism for "bullying," something that I think is uncalled for at any level, but particularly reprehensible when directed at kids.

I also believe that Knight is quite smart and that his mid-season "hike" was planned. Again, my own personal opinion is that if he stayed the year and announced his retirement after the last game, it would have given the university an opportunity to shop for a replacement. Leaving now virtually ensures the school will have to "stay the course" for this season and maximizes his son's opportunity to nail down the head coach job.

Over the years I have come to a decision about coaching methods. Methods are and can be important but not all that important. What's most important to me about a coach is; Does Coach 100% really "care" about my son and does he have "a plan" that guides him toward becoming a better man?
Those two questions will cover a broad spectrum of important issues imo and if the answer is yes to both questions, you really don't have to worry about your son anymore.
IMO I KNOW the best baseball coach in the world. I can't say I agreed with him all the time but I can say he had 100% support from me ALL the time. Looking back at it all...He was better than I realized at the time.

CPLZ,

You make a very good point. I would hate to see snipits of certain things that I’ve said or done in the past on “youtube”.

However, if being filmed I’m fairly certain I’d react different than Bobby Knight. Those links are just a few of many showing Bobby Knight’s behavior over a long period of time. I could have selected many others. He has left examples all over the place. To use a common phrase, I think he believes he is bigger than the game.

Bobby Knight has proven to be a great coach, by most standards. I admire the fact that his players graduate. It’s not like everything he does is bad. My biggest problem is that I just think it is obvious that he shows very little respect for others. I wouldn’t want him to be a neighbor?

That’s my opinion. I think that opinion is shared by many! Of course, there are also many who think he is wonderful. To each his own.

PG,
You also make a good point.

Your "bigger than the game" explanation could very well be right. My take was that he has anger management issues.

Ronald Reagan once said, "if you agree with me 80% of the time, I consider you a friend". I think that if we were to take the whole of Knights carrer, we, and perhaps most, could quite possibly find 80% of it that we admire and agree with. He has walked the walk on a great many issues that we consider highly important.

What happens instead, is that we tend to weight the scale of events to fit a stance, rather than look at all things on equal footing. Part of that is inclusive in your statement about many agreeing with you. I have no doubt of that, but a mobs agreement shouldn't place more weight on a singular criticism. It only serves to highlight it, and that highlight is what overweights it and skews our perception and balance. It comes back to the adage that it takes 10 good things to erase 1 bad thing. That's hitting .900 and if my final ba is that good, I'll rest easy.

Funny you brought up the neighbor thing. I've often wondered the same, and quite honestly, gone back and forth. As long as you knew the score going in, I don't think it would be much of a problem...he could tell me to go to hell, and I'd tell him where to get off, and when we both cooled down, throw a couple of steaks on the BBQ and talk fishing. I'll bet that relationship sounds pretty familiar to a lot of people...we've all had friends that try our patience, but because of their preponderance of virtues, they remain our friends.

I've done a lot worse for neighbors than Bobby Knight.

P.S. In rereading my post, I wound up laughing at the thought that I may the friend that tries all of my friends patience!

quote:

Funny you brought up the neighbor thing. I've often wondered the same, and quite honestly, gone back and forth. As long as you knew the score going in, I don't think it would be much of a problem...

Just keep him cooking on the grill and out of the cooler at cookouts.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:

quote:

Funny you brought up the neighbor thing. I've often wondered the same, and quite honestly, gone back and forth. As long as you knew the score going in, I don't think it would be much of a problem...

Just keep him cooking on the grill and out of the cooler at cookouts.

Keep him away from the lawn furniture.

Spoons only. No knives or forks. They teach anger management in jail and alternative schools.

We have had this conversation before. If I recall correctly, it was regarding the "slapping" incident. I can take yelling and screaming and even cussing. I don't believe my son responds well to that but he can take it. Where I draw the line is hitting a player. As I do not care much for basketball as a game and was not a fan of watching it on TV, I was rather ambivalent about Mr. Knight and his antics until that particular incident. Once I saw that replay, it did not matter to me how many wins the guy had, what his graduation rate is or how many ex-players glorified his name. That told me all I needed to know about the man.

He is a bully and a punk.

TW344

A bully and punk can be in the eye of the beholder---

I had Christian Brothers as teachers in HS who might fit those terms for the way they handled us a students

My Dad hit me when I was a kid but that was not being a bully or a punk---that was a dad disciplining his son

Incidently when my wife worked at CONVERSE she met Coach Knight a number of times and to this day tells me he was one of the finest gentlemen she has ever met---he is also a great motivational speaker.

On the other hand some of the sports dignitaries people think are "gods" she said were the most obnoxious people in the world