Go "Noles"

What is next? PETA going after the animal mascots? Maybe Florida can be really PC and name the team the "Really Wealthy, Casino Owning, Native Americans", they can put a pair of dice with an arrow and dollar sign on the uniform. Puhleeze!

Maybe the Fighting Illini can be renamed the Passive And Well Mannered Illini.

The NCAA, for a long time, has been considered elitist and just plain ignorant on so many issues. This time they have gone that little extra to prove the organization is really out of touch not just with the athlete but the fans and schools as well. How can a governing body be so insensitive to whom it oversees? According to published reports, for instance, the Seminole Indian tribe has clearly stated that they are “proud” to have FSU use the Seminole name. In fact, Max Osceola, a member of the Seminole tribal council bemoaned the fact that history, unkindly, is being repeated ``Non-Indians are again telling Indians what is good for them'' he said. The Florida Seminole Indians are in total support of FSU.

Hostile and abusive... Come on! Certainly in the past there have been some mascots that have been less than flattering to the tribal nations. For the sake of political correctness these mascots have been retired or replaced. However, if the NCAA, in their infinite wisdom, find the use of Indian names and references hostile and abusive explain how the University of North Carolina-Pembroke is exempt from the sanctions. Myles Brand and his minions have ruled that because North Carolina-Pembroke has historically admitted a high percentage of American Indians (reportedly more than 20% of the student body are American Indians) they may continue to use the nickname Braves. Hey, maybe it is just me but does anyone else think that maybe those 20% are the very people the NCAA is looking to “protect” from the hostile and abusive nicknames, mascots and references?!?

The NCAA is pandering to a small group of people that have little else to do. For the NCAA to cave in on this could really lead to some serious consequences. For instance, how many people in Florida (especially around September) cringe when you hear any reference to hurricanes? Watch out Miami! Is anyone offended by the fact that fans in Arizona and North Carolina are cheering for the devil. Watch out Arizona State and Duke! The NCAA PC crew is on the prowl.

Brilliant. Miles Brand is the smartest man in America and if you don't believe me just ask him. Let's see, on the pecking order of things that may be of concern to the NCAA, they decided to tackle the most difficult and complex issue of all time first. Gee, why didn't I think of that. I guess that's why I don't get paid the big bucks (sarcasim off).

How about this one, every division in college football has a playoff system, yet, in D1 it is considered totally unworkable. Lets just have the computer geeks and sports writers decide it. You know what's really cool, since they don't have playoffs, they are exempt from the mascot rules - you gotta love it.

They made St Johns University drop the "Redmen" tag and the name had nothing to do with Indians-- the "redmen" tag came from the fact that early on the uniforms, band etc were all red, Somehow or other the name evolved into an Indian thing

Highlander

You state that the NCAA is pandering to a small group of people. That should not surprise anybody just look at what goes on in the political arena in this country. This PC thing has gone to far. Gee "The Fighting Irish" a violent depiction of the Irish? You never know

Goodbye Indians, what about the Cowboys? OK State, Wyoming and a few others.

How about them Fighting Irish? I'm offended, my ancestry is being demeaned.

The Oklahoma Seminoles are offended, but the Florida Seminole Tribe is honored.

What a joke! Let the travesty D1 football non-playoff system continue, but certainly get rid
of those offending mascots.

Oh Boy!!! This is going to get real interesting.

BigHit, that is some funny stuff

What about the FIGHTING IRISH? I don't understand how they can name, towns, counties and even states using Indian names. Will the NCAA force states to change their name.

I can see there are some mascots and logos that could be considered degrading to American Indians. However, there also seems to be some positive recognition brought to some great Native American people. Some might be completely forgotten if it weren't for these names being used. Maybe that's what people want.

I think the degrading stuff needs to go, but isn't it a big honor to have your name used by a major university. Are these institutions of higher learning just trying to downgrade an entire race? I don't think so!

quote:

What about the FIGHTING IRISH?

....and the Ragin Cajuns??

Dad04,
Now that's "hostile" !

May I apologies, in advance to all those who I may offend by this post.

I wonder if Fungo finds the mascot named after him offensive?!?!?!? Looks racially or ethnically "hostile" or "abusive" to me??? Maybe it’s the hostile crossed eyes. If this PC thinking trickled into MLB God help us…. Think of all those bandana’ed “pirates” or white sox’ed nerds roaming the streets! It scares me to think of the possibilities!

Thanks FutureBack.Mom for finding Fungo, the mascot of the New Hampshire Fisher Cats, the AA affiliate of the Toronto Blue Jays and bringing this possible insult to our attention.

http://www.nhfishercats.com/uploads/images/mascot2.jpg

NOTE: The information is provided for informational purposes only, and is not intended to offend Fungo or anyone that may resemble Fungo or anyone who can not read but may be offended by the pictorial of Fungo or anyone the is blind but can read and my know Fungo. Smokey does not warrant the intelligence of this post or assume any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information. This post may contain material on Fungo and should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered.

“The other teams could make trouble for us if they win.” ~ Yogi Berra

In the 60's we went through this with the commie pin-heads feigning being insulted about their heritage. It isn't about that, its about getting money from the federal government for some innane program so they can give their colleagues in academia busy work instead of a "real" job. Most of them wouldn't know an Indian if he was standing right next to them. And quite frankly I doubt if there are any "true" Indians left as their lineage has been absorbed through inter-racial marraiges, and have all being assimilated into our national culture.

Just another sanctimonious demonstration by the NCAA that getting money from the government is their real mission.

Stanford University was one of the first to succumb to this heresy. They went from the Stanford Indians to the Stanford Cardinal (color) not the bird. And their logo is a Redwood Tree. Can you get anymore non-offensive then that. But I anticipate that there will be the ECO-Terrorist nuts who will be offended that the Redwood Tree is being used as part of a sports symbol.

UC Santa Cruz uses the Banana Slug. The only thing that faculty and students care about there is where they're going to score their next doobie.

Just based upon that idiocy, I would never allow my kid anywhere near that campus.

I get it now....the NCAA is concerned with the Seminole logo on a FSU players jersey perhaps offending a few but need not be concerned with that same player wearing the Seminole logo taking a 115 mph bullet in the face off of some aluminum bat.
Priorities in order!

Smokey,
Thanks for making me aware that I'm being targeted. Should I file a class action lawsuit for me and all the other Fungos of the world? I never really thought about it but now that you mention it, that "character" up in Massachusetts is hostile and abusive to all us Fungo's.
Back to the farce about the Indian mascot being considered offensive to the American Indian. I would be more inclined to believe a college program with their mascot being a 7th Cavalryman as more offensive to the American Indian population than an Indian brave? But then who said “Politically Correct” was correct after all?
Fungo

The Seminole Tribe of Florida that stayed home and fought the white man's dominance are represented by a decendant of perhap's the bravest Indian Chief in history, Chief Osceola.

Max Osceola and the FLORIDA Seminole Tribe are on record in support of Florida State University using the Seminole name. The Seminole Tribe of Florida has been involved in an advisory capacity regarding logo's and even merchandise design's for more than 30 years!

How does this even remotely compare to the ficticious "Chief Illiniwek" dancing on the Illinois basketball court and football field?

It is time to take a very hard look at an organization that wants the college athletic world to believe they are looking out for thier best interests when they have never taken a stand on uniform drug testing. Is it more important to fight over logo's and mascots...or to allow each institution to regulate thier own drug policy's? Note: An athlete at some schools is out after 2 failed tests while other schools allow 4!

My point exactly soxnole - thank you. The NCAA has nothing better to do with its limited time and resources??? Why exactly do we need the NCAA? Someone explain that one to me!

I don't get it too - - when a school or team selects a symbol or mascot to represent them they'd choose something they feel shows tradition, pride, etc that they want to portray

the fact that in the past there was maybe some shoddy artwork, or that some mascots have come to act like cartoon characters certainly could be handled in any number of ways

smokey, why anticipate any offense from Fungo? that mascot is a spittin image of how I pictured him in his younger days

Wonder what they are going to do with the anteaters or the horned toads?

Fungo,
You are cute, and a mascot for the Blue Jays!
How coincidental

"Tar Heel" is slated to be banned...

...once the NCAA can find two, reasonable people who can agree about what it is!

yes, and I'm now on the "warpath" (if that's PC) against yellow jackets, there were some out back that I tried to "treat with respect" & they stung the He** outa me - - -
now it's gasoline, & M-80's baby!

Wanna see your blood rise ???
Try this

The NCAA Clearinghouse gets what --- $30 bucks a pop from every HS kid , male and female, who think they can play college sports at the D-I D-2 level.

This for all sports --keep that in in mind -- so you do the math---

Nice eh--must be good money involved for Brand to cease being the President at University of Indiana to run the NCAA

When you consider Miles Brand, Bud Selig becomes a genius.

Here in the politically correct Commonwealth of Virginia (and be careful, the next two presidential candidates might come from here), we should be mostly okay because nobody is quite sure what a Hokie (Virginia Tech) and Wahoo (UVA) are, JMU is the "Dukes" (a dog apparently), Richmond is the Spiders (and that insect has no fan club), and George Mason's "Patriots" are only slightly questionable (demeans the British that lost the war after all), but William and Mary, with the "Indians" has got to go....

And while we're talking, hasn't "Mary" played second fiddle to "William" long enough? Why not require that it be "Mary and William" for the next 200 years to even things out? Maybe that's why they haven't found a new baseball coach in over 1 month of searching.

And then there's "University of Mary Washington ". What was Mary's maiden name? Why must she use "Washington"? Was George's dad a chauvinist? Oh the shame of it all.....

Personally, I want to thank the NCAA for taking on such a signficant issue. They could easily have gotten side-tracked by such lesser issues as steroids, drug-testing, recruiting abuses, and the questionable-but-just-so-obvious -it's-silly unfairness of giving only 1 year scholarships at 4 year schools (how obvious does that have to be?).

Heck, lesser groups might have tackled why D-1 football is incapable of a championship game when every other sport at every other level has one, or why coaches can break contracts with impunity, and work the next day, yet to do the same thing, players must sit out a year, unless those very same coaches agree otherwise.

(cut to background music-Battle Hymn Of The Republic here)

I know guts and gumption when I see them, and while others may question Dr. Brand and the PCAA (oops, NCAA), I say Great jobs guys (oops, persons) Great job!!!!!!!!

hokieone,

Classic post! I love sarcasim and you have done a nice job here. I agree with you, it is about time to rename William & Mary to M & W

For those of us who think this is crazy, send Mr. Brand an email!

mbrand@ncaa.org

I think I'll email this thread, he might get a kick out of Hokie's post.

Why does baseball only get 11.7 scholly's? Why does football need so many?

Wonder what can be done about the Aggies............?

They certainly offend my cotton pickin' heritage.

Fungo see what you started…. Hokie, great post. I heard that the alums from FSU pledged some big numbers (over a million) to fight this. Maybe soxnole can fill us in?? While reading this tread one of my favorite movies comes to mind, and I quote;
“Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did. But you can't hold a whole NCAA responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole NCAA system? And if the whole NCAA system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, President Myles Brand - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!” ~ Otter

Hokie...I'm being repetitive here, but great post. Thanks for starting my day off with a "thought provoking" chuckle!

Hokie - That's great!!!

TR - I agree - we pay the bucks and then must sit back for months waiting on the response!

Will this turn up to different sports such as MLB? Because I really don't want the Braves to go.

Edit- What about any other sports? I dont know any NBA or NHL ones but the Redskins came to mind.

That is a great question akbb20. When the Cleveland Indians were perennial play-off contenders in the mid to late ninties, outside groups began to pressure them big time. Funny, no one really gives a c-r-a-p about Cleveland (except for late night tv fodder) until one of their teams is successful for the first time in over 50 years.

These protest groups usually had American Indians as front people but I suspect there were radical PC groups that were actually the political force behind them. I must admit, Cleveland's logo Chief Wahoo could have been considered offensive in that it was more in the characature (sp) style. The team has tried to downplay the wahoo image in recent years by featuring the name "Indians" on there uniforms and promotional literature rather than the actual face of Chief Wahoo. I think the Braves are targeted by the same groups.

I'm surprised no one'shad my view yet.


On the one hand, teams like the Seminoles, who have close ties to an actual tribe or group, are okay. They are part of an actual group. (Notre Dame falls into this as well.)

However, teams like 'Indians' 'Braves' and 'Redskins' could be very offensive. Why just the Redskins? Why not Blackskins? It could have an African American on the helmets! Or the Fightin' Rednecks! It would have a white guy as a mascot, running around, acting like a total moron.
NO! it's racist, no matter how you toss the dice. It's not tradition, it's offensive.

I think if you ask the ethnic groups involved the majority will give you a big "so what".

It is all petty BS---The Fighting Irish is nt found to be offensive

What about the Dirtbags of Long Beach State?

I think our country has gotten TOO SOFT as well as TOO FREAKING SENSITIVE ABOUT THINGS

You know we can solve the problem--no names for the teams just the school name or the pro team name--The New York Baseball team for instance--the Florida State Football Team

Still didn't respond to my point:

Would you be fine with a Blackskins team? Or a Fightin' Asians? Or a Fightin' Whiteys? No.

Should these groups just stop being too freaking sensitive? Geez. Some people find racial slurs offensive believe it or not.

Personally, I am appalled that the NCAA is still allowing the use of Eagles and Tigers as nicknames.

Eagles are nice birds. They have families.
The same goes for Tigers.

Doesnt anybody care about these creatures feelings?

It is just so unfair.


And then - the sausage races in MLB. Its disgusting IMO. Dont get me going on this.
Total denigration of Italian sausages. You must remember - those sausages were once living beasts.

Whats next - racing meatballs?

The Horror - the Horror.

BTW - This went under the radar screen - but the last sausage race winner in Milwaukee - was found guilty of steroid abuse.

I knew it too - I saw the race - no way a sausage can make up lost ground to a speedy and well-tuned hot dog, like that one did.

Nothing is sacred anymore.
Even the sausages are juiced.

YC

Why you trying to drive this into a "racial slur" attitude ????---

I have a major problem with that

I agree with Yankee Clipper. There's no need to use an ethnic stereotype as a team mascot. Making a clown out of a representative of a group and using that clown as a team mascot is disrespectful, and if I've tried to teach my kids anything it's not to be disrespectful - especially towards people you don't even know. I've seen the "Indian" mascots - they aren't pretty. The Atlanta Braves' tomahawk chant (or whatever it is) makes my skin crawl (I keep seeing Jane Fonda doing it.) The phony arguments justifying using a cartoonish "Indian" clown as a mascot because the "fighting Irish" isn't offensive to Irish Americans are pretty transparent. Clipper is right: it's no more OK to call a team the "Indians" than it would be to call them the "Darkies" (with a blackface tap dancing mascot?) or the "Beaners" with a Mexican sleeping against a cactus for a mascot. People are people, not animals or dirtbags. It is demeaning to the members of that group - even if they don't want to complain about it.

I, for one "whitey" would feel very honored if the Seminole Tribe or the
Cherokee Nation wanted to name one of their teams "The Palefaces" or "The Long Knives" or the "Whiteeyes".

Not sure I've ever heard the term "Blackskins" before.

Hard to imagine anyone naming their team a derogatory name just to offend a
group of people.

Talk about sensitive, these names have been around for years, I've seen
native Americans here in Florida wearing Indians, Braves, Seminoles, and yes
Redskins shirts. Much ado about nothing.

How about:

The Fighting Ziti?

I like that one.