Help with Motivation

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"So where is the line between pushing too hard and letting him make is own decisions? Do I just put my foot down and say this is what you're doing and you'll thank me later? Is this just part of "that age?"

Only you can answer that question because you know your son best.  Of course your son would rather play Xbox, watch TV, or surf the internet.  As humans, we're all a little lazy and like the easy option.  However, you know deep in son heart what his intent is.  If it's to play HS baseball, college later, and maybe a shot at the pros, you know it well.  As the wise father, you also know the work required to get there.  Let me challenge you with this, go the HS track and run 2 miles (8 laps).  As it gets harder and harder and your heart is working at full speed, that's somewhat equal to physical/mental challenges that your son faces when working-out for baseball.  It's tough doing that day in, day out.  That's where he needs someone to keep a boot in his a$$ and positive motivation to keep working towards his goal.  We all need that I guess.  I know I had to do that for my son and he's now living his dream.

Golfman,

One of my first posts on here years ago involved this exact same issue.  You will be happy to know that what I was told came true, in that as my son matured he realized he would have to put in the work to keep up, and he did.  In fact he was told by Summer coach that colleges were watching, but they thought he needed to get in better shape.  He also saw upper classmen putting in the work.  It started to click going into junior year, and he started going to the gym and doing what he could to get into better shape.  Something about 11th grade causes kids to start to become adults, and they realize it is their life and if they want to reach their dreams they need to work.  I saw it in all the kids we know that were serious about baseball.  In 8th grade the end game is too far to contemplate, and most are not mature enough.  We as parents are also the stupidest people on earth.  It will get better. 

I don't get the demonizing of Xbox.  I think of Xbox as a nice stress reliever for my son, and a team building event for he and his friends.  They wold take it on the road and play in the cars and late night in the hotels.  They had a blast, and it was great for them. They love to make their own player, and dynasty teams.  Since my son strives to be a good baseball player, person, and student, I don't put any restrictions on him.  I never have.  He has been lucky to have good coaches, and good teammates that work hard.  I would agree that having the right friends/mentors goes a long way.  

Also, I have seen a couple of posts about not pushing them too hard.   I don't know that I agree with that policy.  At some point, they need to get it.  If they aren't getting to that point, what do you have to lose?  They might quit?  They weren't performing or working hard enough, maybe some real talk will help them see the light.  There were many times I told my son the cold hard facts, and I do admit that I crossed the line sometimes, but my son eventually took the ball and ran with it.  As a High School Player, I don't have to be the bad gyum and he long tosses, does the extra high school workouts, and goes to the gym daily.  His coach paid him a great complement.  "He said he wants to be great, and you can't teach that."  

I beleieve if your sons are having motivation issues in 8 th grade when they should be having fun, there is a big, red flag.

That is kind of how I feel.  I would rather play xbox than go to work too.  So I am trying to work that line and teach him to set priorities and make sound decisions.     

Xbox can be a stress reliever and I am fine with that.  It is also a social event.  With xbox live a group can get together and play online.  Not really that much different than the 3 way telephone conversations we had when I was a kid.  However, it can be very addictive.  Sometimes a kid with forego his responsibilities to play.  Even my kid will half ass his homework to finish quickly and get on.  Moderation is key. 

You can lead a horse to water...

"That is kind of how I feel. I would rather play xbox than go to work too. So I am trying to work that line and teach him to set priorities and make sound decisions."

I know how you feel, you feel the pinch and pressure becasue you know while your son is playing xbox, the other boy is working hard at improving his baseball game.  There's a fine line and a good balance.  Sometimes it's not bad to play xbox, relax the mind, recharge, and start again-refreshed. 

If you have to put a boot up someone's BUTT, it sounds like they may be living your dream as opposed to theirs.  For kids who love the game, they don't view it as work but rather something they love to do.  If the parents have to supply the motivation, then it will catch up to the player sooner or later.  Most parents never played high school baseball let alone college or pros.  Leave it up to the coaches to decide how much work needs to be done.  Encourage your kids to love the game and do good in school.  I believe hounding them to "work" on their games will eventually blow up.  In extreme cases, like Jimmy Piersol and Todd Marinovich, it can blow up profoundly. 

I am not sure I agree 100%.  As kids growing up, they have a lot of influences -- good and bad.  They can get lazy.  How do they know what they want to do?  How do they know what they "love?"  As parents, isn't our role to provide guidance and motivation to persevere?  Don't we have more knowledge and experience than they do (even though he thinks I am stupid)?    Now I am not talking about forcing a kid to do something he doesn't want to do.  I am not talking about going overboard.  I am talking about that gentle nudge to continue on his path of success.  I don't want him to suffer the consequences of laziness. 

As a father my overall concern would be that the kids are getting plenty of some type of physical activity. I have two boys who are now in their 30's. One played baseball while the other chose different sports but they did so solely because they enjoyed sports. They also rode bikes, swam, hiked etc. There is more than enough stress waiting down the road for them so let them be kids and when they show an interest in whatever support them 100%.

He might not understand but make him realize how much he would/will regret not trying to better himself as an athlete and not making the high school baseball and/or basketball team with all his buddies. He just needs a little boost from you. Xbox is fun at the time but playing xbox instead of bettering himself in someway sports, academics, relationships, etc isn't going to provide any value at all for him as a person in life. 

Boy does this sound familiar!!!!  You are not alone I assure you.  I have a ninth grader who showed similar tendancies.  I believe it was early last summer of his rising ninth grade year, when after the first week of his summer vacation I noticed what his idea of "summer vacation" was to be?  That being sleeping in till 9am, breakfast and ESPN till 10, then X-BOX till who knows when?  After several days of this from my 14 year old rising 9th grader (great and aspiring baseball and basketball player too) I decided we needed to have a little talk and a laying down of some clear summer rules.

My point was to my son, that when "I was your age we didn't have Xbox.....blah, blah, blah,..." Went on to regall him of all the epic neighborhood games we'd play etc.  Then I said "and when I turned 14 I began TO WORK."  I mowed lawns like all kids, then I got a job at a country club golf course, and WORKED."  My point was basically, "Look, WORK is a part of life and now that you are 14 I realize your options are limited but if you are not going to WORK ON YOUR CRAFT (baseball and or basketball) then here are the keys to the lawn tractor, start knocking on some doors."  I'm sorry, but 14 is the time a kid needs to start understanding REAL responsibility, accountability, etc.  If they are not learning it on the fairy tale land on the baseball diamond or the hard court than by-gum they will learn it in reality. 

Now I had to still be reasonable though, hear me out.  I simply told my son, "You have two options for a "job."  One is to take the lawn tractor and start mowing lawns, baby sitting, whatever.  THE OTHER OPTION IS SPORTS.  I will allow you to make sports your job."  Now what does that mean? For the rest of the summer my son's life looked like this: Monday thru Thursday he was to have breakfast and be done with Xbox by 9am.  From 9am until 3pm he was to be "working."  What qualified for "work" was practicing his craft.  Doing T-work in garage (have simple indoor batting rig in garage, see HSBW topic "Batting Cages"), shooting hoops in driveway, reading a book, lifting age appropriate weights, footwork, etc.  THAT WAS HIS JOB, Monday thru Thursday only.  Then, having put 6 hours of work in per day, 24 per week, he was good to go, still within reason, on Xbox, TV, Youtube, whatever.   

Now, I don't want to make this sound like the magic cure, as it does take trust, checking up on etc. as any boss would.  But by 14?  The fairy tale land of sleeping in, endless hours of XBOX, etc. is going to end either by them "getting a job" of some sort or allowing them the choice to make baseball or hoops or whatever their job.  And lets face it we all need some relax, down time from our jobs and what better way to do that than to play some Halo or Black Ops? 

Great topic and valid concern. 

http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/s...two-sports-1.3021276

I'd like to take credit for my idea presented above but I didn't make it up on my own.  I drew inspiration from the article in link above on a Notre Dame ball player who talks about the same situation as he grew up and what role his dad played in his motivation.

Read the above linked article.  It says it all.  When presented with the choice of your job being sports or your job being mowing lawns or doing construction, really.....what choice would you make?  Mind you, it can still be fun (baseball, hoops, whatever) but sounds like a great opportunity to instill work ethic, reality, earning a buck.  I did offer to somehow pay my son for "his work."  It didn't feel right to me, NOR TO HIM he said, so we didn't go that route.  His "pay" was weekends off (although he often "worked" on his own then....OVERTIME???) although obviosly he'd have games, travel,etc. so there really wasn't a lot of offtime.

Get together with him and brainstorm "acceptable work activities."  What qualifies for work?  Again, T-work, free throws in driveway, running, footwork, READING (Sports Illustrated, ESPN qualified, books on baseball) During hot weather watching "sports related TV shows, replays of games, all qualifies as "work."

READ LINKED PIECE ABOVE IT ALL WILL MAKE SENSE.

19 and #1, those are some good ideas.  Thanks.

Sorry, but I disagree with replacing normal work responsibilities entirely with baseball/sports work.

I think it is very important to hold kids accountable for normal work activities, regardless of whether they are involved in sports.  Some allowances can be made considering the time it takes to work on their sport of choice and their ultimate goals with those sports.  But to completely replace earning one's keep with working on one's game is feeding the "entitlement" animal and missing on some very important adolescent learning points.  It also feels a bit like bribery to get them to participate in what you want them to instead of education, motivation and inspiration to help them succeed in what they want.

I also think it is a bit early (14 y.o.) to think of sports as 100% "job".

I'm guessing that your link to the ND athlete didn't tell the whole story.  I would bet that he still had plenty of work and earning responsibilities outside of his training as well during his HS years.

Don't get me wrong.  I think helping a young man learn how to allocate time to work on his game is a good thing. I think gradually learning that sports at a higher level are largely work is a necessary lesson if that is the aspiration.  I just think there needs to be balance in the process.

What are you guys calling work responsibilities?  My parents basically told me the same thing - I'm not going to sit around on the couch all summer so I had to either get a job or play sports.  Obviously I chose baseball and then football when it started.  Now I still had "chores" I had to do regardless of the fact I was doing baseball and football.  It was still my responsibility to cut the grass, help wash dishes, clean the house if mom said so - whatever.  They gave me an allowance to help learn to budget money and learn the value of money.  

This strategy may not work with everyone and that's fine.  Each set of parents have to find what works for their kid and that may change with each kid because my sister went out and got a job.  But she still had her chores around the house and my parents still controlled her money to learn the value and budget of money.

Back in the day, one summer morning we where in the weight room working out for football.  The topic of jobs and work came up, with my buddy getting a lot of crap because he didn't work a day in his life.  He piped up -- "Hey, I work.  I take out the trash."  He was the only one on the team who ended up with a scholarship to a MAC school. 

My son didn't have a job outside of HS all four years .He took hard classes maintained a 3.7 GPA and eventually got his education basically paid for.

He did community service, worked hard in school, worked hard at baseball and conditioning and had some social time. he did chores, kept his room up, helped around the house,yards etc.

To work,have good grades and pursue a serious baseball college option is a more than full time job. Work ethic is work ethic, they have it or they don't.

Way up at on the 1st page of this thread somebody that may be wise beyond his years mentioned possibly playing these videos games WITH your son.

And then today an article pops up in Forbes with a head line reading "Research Says Parents And Kids Should Play Video Games Together".

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jo...ideo-games-together/

Not sure if this will help motivate him to be a better ball player, but there may be some value in it for your relationship.

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com

Whew! I made it through the K-12 years before being advised to play video games. The last video game I played was Pac Man thirty years ago. Fortunately there are other ways to bond.

RJM - you weren't the person posting about how much your son plays videos games.  So this probably doesn't apply to you.  Just seems that if a parent had a kid that had an interest (be it video games, baseball, surfing, or sky diving) it might be in the parents interest to check it out.  Thats all.

It is a game to enjoy when you enjoying down time, free time. It should not interfere with school or other goals the child has. if it does then its out of balance and balance needs to be restored and maintained.

Simply limit the time on there. If he isn't into baseball then it should be something else.Being productive is good for young kids, volunteer at the food shelter. My son and I worked at the food shelter for almost a year as community service time.

There is time for fun and relaxing and doing what they want to do. Balance

HR derby is pretty fun

 LOL....my competitive nature does not afford me the opportunity to enjoy playing with/against my kids on the video games....I just can't take getting my butt kicked by all of them!!!!!

Just thought I would post an update.  School basketball has ended, so now he has some free time.  We had a deal about his grades and xbox.  He missed the goal by 1% point -- so xbox during the week is out.  He was made "captain" of his baseball team - I think this put some pressure on him.  He now goes twice a week on his own to throw and hit.  No complaints.   

Although he did tell me he wanted to get a job so he can by more shoes -- Lebrons, Durants, Jordan, etc.  What is with kids and shoes these days?

Totally agree with you Golfman.  Our job as parents are to help guide our kids.  Would most kids do homework without our "guidance"?  There are many who would, especially as they get older and more mature, but at the younger ages (up to 14 or so) - probably not.  There's a fine line between "guidance" and forcing kids to do something they're no longer interested in, but I think most of us will recognize that once it's obvious.

My ex wife and I had trouble competing against each other. When she heaved her putter at least twenty yards I knew she was the woman for me. I did find the best means for birth control competing against her. After losing four straight in Scrabble I stared her down and said, "You're not smart enough to beat me four straight." We didn't start a family that week.

It's not XBOX or PS3 and the amount of time spent on it. It's all about baseball and how much they're really into it. A baseball junkie who loves XBOX will work on his baseball game. Almost all the time, it's about the parents obsession with how their kids should love baseball vs how their kids feel about baseball. I think the problem is when parents see their kid treat baseball as a hobby, they think there's something wrong with the kid and he's not dedicated or something when in reality, he may just see baseball as just a hobby or part of who he is as opposed to be only about baseball and nothing else. Parents who are obsessed with their kid's baseball seem to have a difficult time wrapping their arms around this when their kids grow up and find there's more than life than baseball. For some, they're hungry and want baseball to be a big part of their life but almost always, it's out of enjoying all parts of the game including the work that goes into becoming a top ballplayer while others, enjoy playing hs sports, do the necessary work to play the game and move on to other interests in their life when baseball is done. You can't force a player to eat sleep and live baseball 7x24 365 days a year. The ones that do need no motivation and can play all the XBOX in the world but will be the first ones on the practice field and the last to leave. That's something you can't force a kid to do. He will just do it and take care of whatever it is that needs to be done.

The ones that do need no motivation and can play all the XBOX in the world but will be the first ones on the practice field and the last to leave. That's something you can't force a kid to do. He will just do it and take care of whatever it is that needs to be done.

Great post, and I completely agree.

Good post and  so true.

While I agree somewhat with Zombywoof's assertion that it is the "parent's obsession," the fact is that more and more, if your son is not working to earn a position, someone else's son is.  When tryouts come, that young man working on his game just might have an advantage.  That is what parents stress over.  In the end, when those tryouts happen, a pecking order is established that is difficult to overcome.  Still, when players see that, those that really want to be on the field will give themselves a kick in the butt.  The others will accept that they are second string.  That is the nature of things. 

Great thread. At the very least its nice to see that other parents have gone through/are going through the same thing as me. Maybe me and the OP can spend the next few years commiserating

Ive typed out 4 or 5 different replies to this thread and every one has gone from a couple of sentences long response to 1000 word rant very quickly.

Suffice it to say that i have my own talented 8th grader with motivation issues who might just be getting a dose of reality this week when tryouts for our local HS B team take place. Ive heard that the coaches are only planning on taking a limited number of 8th graders, possibly as few as two. Of course my son has barely touched a bat or ball since October, and who thinks im the dumbest person on Earth for suggesting that he might not make the team because of it. 

But there i go ranting again.

If a kid has a real passion for something-be it sports, music, drama, etc. they have an inner motivation and will not need to be pushed to practice, work hard. My son would walk around the house at a young age w a glove on his hand throwing a tennis ball around. He hits off tee 4-5 times a wk, indoors/out depending on season. Got into video games at age 14-mostly sports ones, but finds time to work in baseball because he loves it. 

imo if a kid is not really motivated to put in extra time esp in HS then don't waste money getting on a travel team. Sometimes it's the parents that have the dream of playing sport in college not kid-they just like the social aspect of playing some in HS. I wouldn't waste the money doing more if kid doesn't really have passion inside.

Like so many discussions on this site, people tend to over simplify. If X then Y. I have seen as many if not more passionate athletes that don't realistically have much chance of playing in high school let alone beyond. It's as sad to me to see the anger in the parent of such a player as the disappointed parent whose player doesn't share thier passion. Motivation is / can be the byproduct of several elements. It would be interesting to be able to formulate a few of the predominant algorithms that lead to success using the following elements.

Size

Personality

Athleticism

Aptitude

Experiences (good and bad)

Opportunity

Familial support

Socioeconomics

Geography 

Popularity/Looks

Character/Integrity/selflessness

And I am sure there are others. It's our job as parents to manage, equip, direct and guide our children to achieve the very best/most given all the elements they've been blessed with. How we motivate or develope motivation is the real question of this thread. I love the suggestion of building a love for the game.

I think we sometimes forget the immaturity of youth.  They don't have the life experiences parents have about what it takes to be successful.  They don't know how to prioritize.  They can get lazy and distracted.  So it is easy to say, if he loves it, he'll do it.  And certainly some kids have that.  But a whole lot of other need a "nudge" here and there to learn about working hard, sacrifice and prioritization. 

I was watching recently elected Hall of Fame football player Michael Strahan today.  He told a story about how we wanted to quit after his first year of college.  His dad "suggested" it wasn't a good idea.  The rest is history. 

SG, you certainly touched(eloquently I might add) on a major aspect of my post. We have all seen the very tall kid who never had to work at basketball because of his height advantage. Some of those eventually learn to work at it to excel and others get frustrated because they're not use to working and just quit. There is also the poor kid in South America who has nothing but a glove and a ball and enough talent to give him hope, that if he works hard enough, that one day he just might be able to buy his family a house with something other than a dirt floor. This compared to a kid with the same physical attributes but is brought up in a upper-middle class environment who has every electronic gadget invented and given a new car on his 16th birthday. As a parent all four of the above mentioned kids could be MLB material but each has their own hang-ups to deal with. Some might call it motivation, some might call it love of the game, and some might call it the need for a good kick in the seat of the pants. The art of parenting is really in the knowing and implementation of how to best manage. When it comes down to it I think having a close friend that will you keep, objective and balanced is priceless. (And of course an objective third party like perfect game)