High Academic D3s

We have or have had members with sons at at least 5 of those schools. If you search  the site you should find some threads.

Here are some quick stats on the NESCAC Conference

2019 Conference Comparison

2018 Conference Comparison

2017 Conference Comparison

Gov’s son is at Middlebury. Recall him being high on the school and the program. May want to PM him.

CBRecruiting correct...happy to answer any questions via PM.  Son was pursuing Ivy's, had narrowed his search to Midd, Amherst, and JH.  Went through prereads, coaches saw him plenty of times.

I've detailed our experiences in a number of threads...use the Search button above right.

Son was being recruited to Mid. It's rep as a feeder school to Wall street fit my son's ambitions. Loved the weight room when he toured. The field was mediocre, but apparently a new field is being built( or is already  built?). Coach seemed fine, but ultimately chose not to go because it's relative isolation from us, and  better fits elsewhere.

 Tufts and it's coach have been somewhat controversial on here, but I have no personal experience.

 If my younger son, who is of a an Engineering bent, was accepted to Caltech or MIT then I/he wouldn't give a crap about the baseball program, just be thrilled to be at such a fantastic school. Those two are certainly the academic outliers on your list, with their focus on STEM. I would try to pin those coaches down on your son's realistic chances of admission there, and what boost, if any, his talent as a player will give him. 

I would guess that Tufts and Pomona would have the most competitive teams, year after year. 

Phanatic2008WS,

My son was recruited/offered by a couple of these schools.  For him, it was about his major (engineering) then baseball.  He rated one of these NESCAC schools engineering programs above an Ivy that offered.  He ended up going to a different Ivy (best fit for him based on his major), but I think the academic major should be the focus especially since you are investing a large sum of money in that education.  

I like 57Special's point, but I would apply it to just about any D3 HA school choice not just MIT and Caltech.   If the major is undecided, then look at the availability of internships or the number of students that go onto grad school, medicine, law or whatever it is your son wants to do.  Baseball can be a big part of those 4 years, but probably won't be after graduation.  All of these schools can provide a world class education & experience but it has to work for your son when he graduates.

As always, JMO.   Good luck! 

PS..I would take Gov up on his offer.  

57Special:  turf field slated for next season, initial funding in place, work has been done improving area around field to prep for turf.  HC Leonard solid as they come as a coach along with his depth of playing experience at UConn, Cape League, Red Sox Milber…

While Midd is a bit isolated, still 40mi south of Burlington with great flight access, beautiful campus in its own 2000 acre valley perfectly adjacent to the town of Middlebury, offering plenty of dining options.  My son spent plenty of summers and winters in Colorado so he felt at home with Middlebury.  The Field House is incredible - my sons office.

On average Tufts and Pomona have had stronger teams.  Amherst was solid under former HC Brian Hamm, Middlebury improved last year providing Tufts great competition (I think Midd beat them in over half the games).  Midd will be stronger this year.  HC Leonard is on a mission, as well as the players he recruited. 

Amherst was too small for son along with the nth degree of diversification.

Son liked JH but surrounding area kind of bothered him...still a great campus with facility's.

Edit: cleaned up a sentence, was driving me crazy...

Someone on this board had a son play at Tufts. It didn’t work out for the kid. The dad had nothing nice to say about John Casey. 

The first time I saw John Casey coach he was a pure horse’s arse. He did something on the field that forced him to apologize to the opposing school president, coach, a player and his parents. 

Over the years I’ve known kids who played for Casey. They all swore by him. He’s a bit rough around the edges. But the players I knew who played for him says he has his player’s back.

What really impressed me was a kid I chatted with. He lost his starting job after two seasons and still has nothing negative to say about Casey. 

Bowdoin has a great coach (Connolly) and a horrible baseball facility. Colby has great facilities and a terrible baseball program. You go to Bowdoin and Colby for academics and to get into a top grad school. You don’t go there for baseball unless you enjoy being a popsicle in April. Bowdoin is in Brunswick. It’s a quaint town a half hour from Portland where there’s a lot to do. Colby is in Waterville. Its a nothing town an hour north of Portland. Waterville is so dead the school managed to get property on Main Street and build a dorm.

MIT has a good baseball program. They made the Northeast regional last season. I chatted with some parents and players. The kids are more normal than I would have expected.

You don’t go to Cal Tech to win baseball games. Their baseball history is abysmal. Last season they went 8-26. That’s a big season for them. A kid from our high school who pitched six mop up innings senior year was a star two way player (relative to Cal Tech) for them a few years ago.

Academically any one of the schools on your list is a solid choice.  

Gov posted:

57Special:  turf field slated for next season, initial funding in place, work has been done improving area around field to prep for turf.  HC Leonard solid as they come as a coach along with his depth of playing experience at UConn, Cape League, Red Sox Mil

Phantatic2008WS

FWIW, I will add that the Middlebury pitching coach is awesome.  My son, a 2020 LHP, used him for a year before he finished his run at MLB and started coaching at Middlebury.  Devin Burke was my sons fav pitching coach.  So if your son is a pitcher I recommend the pitching coach highly.   Looks like you are looking all NESCAC though and not just Middlebury.  Lots of good options. 

They are all great options, can't go wrong academically.  If he's a 2020, he has to decide soon (now?) about Early Decision; how many of the coaches have offered him support, and what kind?  How likely is he to get in to the schools without ED?  I'd go with that first, because coach support in ED can also be an indicator of baseball prospects once he gets there (if that matters).  Other than that, did he visit?  Go with gut feeling about coach.  And weather.

Last year at this time I asked about how to choose, got lots of great advice:

https://community.hsbaseballwe.../topic/how-to-decide

As a west coaster...I say go with the weather!  In all seriousness, those are all great options.  My son plays in the SCIAC (Pomona & CalTech play there), its tough to beat the combination of weather, competitiveness and education you can get.  With access to LA, Orange County and San Diego its a winner.  Pomona-Pitzer def has the better baseball team, but he can write his own ticket to almost anywhere after graduating from CalTech.  My son also looked at east coast schools and ultimately I'm glad he didn't go that route.  The added expense of travel and not being able to see him would have been heartbreaking.  

I second what SOCAL OG says about the SCIAC, and would add that 2 of the last 3 D3 National Champions are from that conference.

Also, I am not aware of another conference where all 9 teams are so close to each other geographically.  No long bus rides or overnight trips  is a huge plus IMO.  And unless your coach chooses to do a road trip, the teams' non-conference games are all at home, as teams from the Northeast and Midwest come to CA for early games.

 The MIAC is pretty close together, and no LA traffic. 

Midd plays a double header vs Swat in March, then plays three games in Austin, Texas, then a spring break of games in the Orlando, Fla area.

Phanatic: hopefully you area aware that kids which were pursuing Ivy's have all pretty much found out if they're getting an offer.  If no offer these kids are actively pursuing their plan B schools, and these plan B HA D3 HC's are trying to get those players to their campuses.  And, a lot of these kids are top picks for the HA D3's.... So offers of support are active right now.   If any of the HA D3's you mentioned are seriously interested in your son he would know about it right now!!!!  Otherwise your son may be one of the secondary slot or band B players.  Hopefully your son has a strong ACT/SAT/GPA profile which will make it easier for the HC to support him through admissions.

Good luck

Good point, GOV. At this point, HC and RC's who truly want your player will be making it blindingly obvious. Any hint of vagueness about their "offer" is a message that you should not ignore, no matter how much it might run counter to your wishes or dreams. It's really late to be talking about adding on to your academic resume, as most schools will want to you to apply ED. 

Almost all of the northern schools have their spring break down south, and get in a lot of work and games. Hell, a lot of HS's around here do, also.

I will add a 3rd to Socal OG and JCG and say you should definitely seriously consider both Caltech and Pomona-Pitzer if they are interested.  2017 was actively recruited by PP and did the campus visit, watched an intra-squad game, had lunch with the team, and even attended a Physics class.  The HC is very respected and a straight shooter and was definitely sincere in his interest.

Unfortunately for us, no financial aid was available because FASFA assumes we are "rich" based on an income that is barely middle class in high-cost LA, and the HC noted no merit money is available either (as he noted, all the kids on campus would qualify for it).  So I played the "bad cop" and told him we just could not afford $250K over 4 years no matter how great the education and experience would be.  He told me my son was not the first recruit he lost based on that reason and won't be the last.  But if you can make the $$ work, PP is definitely something you should consider for all of the reasons noted (I also seem to recall the HC saying a lot of the games are Saturdays/Sundays so as to avoid missing classes and the bad LA traffic--another plus for the SCIAC with schools that are demanding academically).

Backstop22 posted:

I will add a 3rd to Socal OG and JCG and say you should definitely seriously consider both Caltech and Pomona-Pitzer if they are interested.  2017 was actively recruited by PP and did the campus visit, watched an intra-squad game, had lunch with the team, and even attended a Physics class.  The HC is very respected and a straight shooter and was definitely sincere in his interest.

Unfortunately for us, no financial aid was available because FASFA assumes we are "rich" based on an income that is barely middle class in high-cost LA, and the HC noted no merit money is available either (as he noted, all the kids on campus would qualify for it).  So I played the "bad cop" and told him we just could not afford $250K over 4 years no matter how great the education and experience would be.  He told me my son was not the first recruit he lost based on that reason and won't be the last.  But if you can make the $$ work, PP is definitely something you should consider for all of the reasons noted (I also seem to recall the HC saying a lot of the games are Saturdays/Sundays so as to avoid missing classes and the bad LA traffic--another plus for the SCIAC with schools that are demanding academically).

You are correct about the schedule.  Typically, they play Friday & double header on Saturday which is great for studies and for parents!  I can catch two games on a Saturday...its awesome.  

Thanks to all for this really information thread. I have read all responses...thansk for the charts, advice about specific schools, regional information (we are on the East Coast). Also, appreciate the caution about the seriousness of offers considering the timeline for 2020s. Bottom line appears to be - all good HACs. The two engineering schools stand out due to the concentrations. 

A few more questions - couple based on the above responses:

1. Any insight into relative pros and cons about Williams and Haverford? Those two schools did not get any feedback per my reading. Both HCs have been there a while, although different conferences. 

2. At couple schools - top choices I might add - son has been told to get admissions and then he is on the team. Does anyone have experience with that? Do we do that if the fit is right - in which case we would need to pass up on a couple strong schools in that list, where HC is ready to support through admissions? This is a tough one...

My experience with kids I coached and others I’ve known over the years on this board is if the D3 coach really wants a kid he tells them to apply ED and the coach helps grease the ride through admissions. The coach can usually help the four to six players he wants the most. 

If a kid is told get accepted and you’re on the team it’s a crap shoot. It’s less of a crap shoot for pitchers. Velocity on a gun is velocity no matter where it’s registered.

I coached a kid who got this offer. He got some playing time over the years. But he never started. He was good enough to be rostered. But not good enough to play regularly. He hit about .200 in about fifty career at bats over four years. 

He enjoyed being part of the team. He got a great degree. He walked into a great job where he summer interned one summer. 

57special posted:

 The MIAC is pretty close together, and no LA traffic. 

 

Fair point!  And some good schools.  A bit chilly up there though. 

I'll address #2 - That statement "get admissions and he is on the team" is typical of the can't-lose position of the schools.  If a school carries a large roster and/or a JV squad, it is easy for them to assure a player "he is on the team".  You may want to dig deeper with questions asking about specifically where they see the player fitting/contributing on the team and when.  Of course, there are no promises, but the more specific the dialog, the more light is shed on where your player will most likely fit on the team.  Of course, seeing them play, if possible, would be a huge plus as well.

Williams is a GREAT school, often slotted as the top liberal arts college in the country.  3 of my closest HS friends went there and they loved it. It's in a lovely little town, but that town is in the middle of nowhere. I don't know that much about Haverford, but it's closer to civilization, and it's got an admit rate more than twice that of Williams. For both of those reasons, I wouldn't think many students would be choosing between those two schools, though maybe some Williams applicants would use Haverford as a backup.

Oh, and there is this: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/0...nce-in-baseball.html

BTW I think there is a recent Williams thread here saying basically that the WC coach recruits late and is hard to pin down.

Thanks again....just to clarify..... "you get admission and you are on the team" applies to top 5 schools (Ivy/HAD3). The spots may be already given to pitchers, catchers, etc....they value you enough, know enough about you thru the recruiting, and think you are good enough to be on the team, but not have any available "support spots" to take to admissions.

1-  In terms of education, Williams is the best of the best. It is somewhat isolated, but has a relatively large enrollment for a LAC. Very, very sought after. I know nothing about their BB team.

Haverford is still very good, but a tier down academically, IMO. In suburban Philly, very small enrollment, but is very close to Bryn Mar. I've heard some odd stories about their athletic admissions, though not necessarily with their baseball team. their baseball team is ok, but the big dog in their conference is JHU. Swarthmore(another academic heavy hitter) has been pretty good recently, also.

2- I don't really know what you mean here. If the  HC is not prepared to support you in the ED round...well, that says it all, IMO. He doesn't think your son is worthy of a slot. Most of the schools mentioned have miniscule acceptance rates. They turn down students with perfect or near perfect marks and scores regularly. If you are applying to one of these schools in the ED round then be aware that is the case. Baseball talent is that extra something that gains you admittance into one of the prestigous schools. Don't waste that bullet in your gun if it won't help you in the ED round. It only fires once, in most cases.

My son took a chance on a HA D3school in the ED round that had actually gone out of their way to recruit him. He hadn't even considered going there, but they changed his mind. After going through their extensive ED application, he ended up being deferred. Luckily, he had a very good plan B, and plan C for the EDII/RD round, and it all worked out very well for him.

JCG posted:

57special posted:

 The MIAC is pretty close together, and no LA traffic. 

 

Fair point!  And some good schools.  A bit chilly up there though. 

But do the rads on our cars overheat in gridlock traffic? Noooooooooo... If it was me, I'd be all over going to a school where it's warm. Eldest son insisted on going to a school in the north, so he didn't overheat.

Re weather ...

I’ve never forgotten a comment my daughter made fifteen years ago during softball recruiting. We were walking across a windy parking lot at Boston College in February. My daughter turned to me and said, “What we’re you thinking when you moved us from Southern California? Does this look like UCSB to you?”

Phanatic2008WS posted:

2. At couple schools - top choices I might add - son has been told to get admissions and then he is on the team. Does anyone have experience with that? Do we do that if the fit is right - in which case we would need to pass up on a couple strong schools in that list, where HC is ready to support through admissions? This is a tough one...

Do you have confidence that he would get in to any of these schools without coach support, and would he be happy at that school?  Of course, there's no way to really know, but unless he has another strong talent or other hook, keep in mind that schools will be admitting smart athletes from the coaches' ED lists, and might not think that they need another smart athlete from the RD applicant pool. 

Also, if the coach has told you, based on a pre-read, that his grades/scores are o.k., that probably means for ED with coach support.  It does not necessarily mean it would be o.k. in the regular applicant pool, especially given the admission rates for most of these schools (8-26%). 

If I read you right, you are saying that there's enough interest at Ivy-type schools that he wants to take his chances applying to a bunch of them RD, and hoping he gets in to at least one school where the coach has interest.  It could work, or it could backfire - does he have another backup that is less selective than all the ones you have listed?

RJM posted:

Re weather ...

I’ve never forgotten a comment my daughter made fifteen years ago during softball recruiting. We were walking across a windy parking lot at Boston College in February. My daughter turned to me and said, “What we’re you thinking when you moved us from Southern California? Does this look like UCSB to you?”

Lol...just last week my son and his roommate (from Boston) were already planning out thanksgiving break.  Last year we spent it at the beach eating & surfing all day.  My son asked if he was going back to Boston for break and his reply was "hell no, I'm never going back if I dont have to!"

anotherparent posted:

Phanatic2008WS posted:

2. At couple schools - top choices I might add - son has been told to get admissions and then he is on the team. Does anyone have experience with that? Do we do that if the fit is right - in which case we would need to pass up on a couple strong schools in that list, where HC is ready to support through admissions? This is a tough one...

Do you have confidence that he would get in to any of these schools without coach support, and would he be happy at that school?  Of course, there's no way to really know, but unless he has another strong talent or other hook, keep in mind that schools will be admitting smart athletes from the coaches' ED lists, and might not think that they need another smart athlete from the RD applicant pool. 

Also, if the coach has told you, based on a pre-read, that his grades/scores are o.k., that probably means for ED with coach support.  It does not necessarily mean it would be o.k. in the regular applicant pool, especially given the admission rates for most of these schools (8-26%). 

If I read you right, you are saying that there's enough interest at Ivy-type schools that he wants to take his chances applying to a bunch of them RD, and hoping he gets in to at least one school where the coach has interest.  It could work, or it could backfire - does he have another backup that is less selective than all the ones you have listed?

Correct....would it make sense to take up the offer with a top 5 ranked school, whose influential coach has told you to sort thru options with other schools that "guaranteed admission and roster spot" and then if still interested in his school to get in touch so he can discuss about admission and a spot on the team. I agree there is a risk involved....the back up options will be schools that offered admission support and roster spots, but were either told to wait or turned down to apply to this school. The risk being if they would still have spots for you...

SoCal OG posted:

RJM posted:

Re weather ...

I’ve never forgotten a comment my daughter made fifteen years ago during softball recruiting. We were walking across a windy parking lot at Boston College in February. My daughter turned to me and said, “What we’re you thinking when you moved us from Southern California? Does this look like UCSB to you?”

Lol...just last week my son and his roommate (from Boston) were already planning out thanksgiving break.  Last year we spent it at the beach eating & surfing all day.  My son asked if he was going back to Boston for break and his reply was "hell no, I'm never going back if I dont have to!"

The comment sounds very familiar. I believe I said it. But life changes. Goals change. What matters changes. Responsibilities change.

I lived in Maine from 3rd to 7th grade. I was adamant I would never go back except in the summer. I never planned on living in MA again after living in Southern CA.

... he types from a Dunkin in Falmouth, ME. I’ll head south (Nahant, MA) for the winter. .  Then I’ll head for the airport once a month from January through April. 

57special posted:

 

My son took a chance on a HA D3school in the ED round that had actually gone out of their way to recruit him. He hadn't even considered going there, but they changed his mind. After going through their extensive ED application, he ended up being deferred. Luckily, he had a very good plan B, and plan C for the EDII/RD round, and it all worked out very well for him.

Can you expand here a bit?  I assume you are saying the HC didn't say he would use one of his chits for your son but had interest in your son so your son applied ED?  

saw at least 2 kids commit to Middlebury today, so if that's on your list, may want to update your research...

Phanatic: I’m just gonna confirm much of what’s been shared above, and maybe amplify some of it.

I’ve had two sons go through the HA D3 baseball admissions gauntlet at many of the schools mentioned in this thread. One is a jr. now at a NESCAC school, the other is a first year at a Centennial Conference school.

The oldest had offers WITH crystal clear coach support—“you are one of my slots”—from four schools you mentioned. Pre-reads came back positive at each school, Which means, as I’m sure you know, that admissions told each coach that son would be admitted if he maintained his current grades and had no conduct issues. He visited each school, picked one, applied ED, got in, and earned a starting spot right away. Piece of cake.   

#2 had coach support at five schools on your list, but none of them were among his top two choices. Coaches at the top two liked him but not enough to use a slot on him. Promised him a roster spot if he got in. #2 wanted to apply (one ED, one EA) to those two anyway which was nerve wracking and with good reason. Gave up a sure thing to take his shot at twin dream schools. He didn’t get into either one of them even though he was at or above their median grades/SAT. So he applied RD to a bunch of other schools on your list including a couple Ivy’s (what the heck, why not?). He also applied to two of the schools that had earlier offered coach support. Those coaches were still very interested but were clear that they could no longer offer any support at all.

Miraculously he got into both, but they were the ONLY HA schools he got into so we’re not sure if those coaches still put in a good word for him with admissions. I think they probably did.

Lessons I learned: if coach is NOT giving support then no matter how brilliant a kid is the acceptance rates for him are gonna be the same as they are for any other applicant who doesn’t have support.  It doesn’t matter if the grades and scores fit the school’s profile, admission is gonna be a crap shoot. 

Your list is impressive. I’d have him ignore the maybes, as long as he’s drawn to one of the places that have offered support. If he can apply EA instead of ED, obviously he’ll have more flexibility.

Sorry this got so long.

Phanatic, that is some serious wisdom gleaned from experience by Smoke.   You came to the right place.

smokeminside posted:

Phanatic: I’m just gonna confirm much of what’s been shared above, and maybe amplify some of it.

I’ve had two sons go through the HA D3 baseball admissions gauntlet at many of the schools mentioned in this thread. One is a jr. now at a NESCAC school, the other is a first year at a Centennial Conference school.

The oldest had offers WITH crystal clear coach support—“you are one of my slots”—from four schools you mentioned. Pre-reads came back positive at each school, Which means, as I’m sure you know, that admissions told each coach that son would be admitted if he maintained his current grades and had no conduct issues. He visited each school, picked one, applied ED, got in, and earned a starting spot right away. Piece of cake.   

#2 had coach support at five schools on your list, but none of them were among his top two choices. Coaches at the top two liked him but not enough to use a slot on him. Promised him a roster spot if he got in. #2 wanted to apply (one ED, one EA) to those two anyway which was nerve wracking and with good reason. Gave up a sure thing to take his shot at twin dream schools. He didn’t get into either one of them even though he was at or above their median grades/SAT. So he applied RD to a bunch of other schools on your list including a couple Ivy’s (what the heck, why not?). He also applied to two of the schools that had earlier offered coach support. Those coaches were still very interested but were clear that they could no longer offer any support at all.

Miraculously he got into both, but they were the ONLY HA schools he got into so we’re not sure if those coaches still put in a good word for him with admissions. I think they probably did.

Lessons I learned: if coach is NOT giving support then no matter how brilliant a kid is the acceptance rates for him are gonna be the same as they are for any other applicant who doesn’t have support.  It doesn’t matter if the grades and scores fit the school’s profile, admission is gonna be a crap shoot. 

Your list is impressive. I’d have him ignore the maybes, as long as he’s drawn to one of the places that have offered support. If he can apply EA instead of ED, obviously he’ll have more flexibility.

Sorry this got so long.

Smoke- Thanks. That’s great insight, especially coming as a primary experience. Similar to where we find ourselves here. The dream schools are not yet offering full support. One needs a better SAT by 30 points and a slightly better Subject test score. Other HAD3 have offered support - in that couple are worth considering - but they are not as perfect an academic fit as the “dream fits”. So a decision will need to be made. You offer a good suggestion of EA versus ED. Need to explore this if it would work. Do not know much about EA and it’s pros and cons. It’s our hope that the schools that really love him and are willing to support will still be there if we end up needing them. Thanks again. 

Where does your son want to go?  Or more to the point, what's his second choice? Is he willing to lose that opportunity, for the chance of the first choice?

He should call the top-5 school and ask the coach point-blank how likely he thinks he is to get in on his own.  The coach surely has an idea based on his transcript/scores.  If he asks, tell that coach what schools have offered admissions support.

BTW, recent thread on Haverford:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...c/haverford-1?page=1

anotherparent posted:

Where does your son want to go?  Or more to the point, what's his second choice? Is he willing to lose that opportunity, for the chance of the first choice?

He should call the top-5 school and ask the coach point-blank how likely he thinks he is to get in on his own.  The coach surely has an idea based on his transcript/scores.  If he asks, tell that coach what schools have offered admissions support.

BTW, recent thread on Haverford:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...c/haverford-1?page=1

Phanatic2008WS posted:

anotherparent posted:

Where does your son want to go?  Or more to the point, what's his second choice? Is he willing to lose that opportunity, for the chance of the first choice?

He should call the top-5 school and ask the coach point-blank how likely he thinks he is to get in on his own.  The coach surely has an idea based on his transcript/scores.  If he asks, tell that coach what schools have offered admissions support.

BTW, recent thread on Haverford:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...c/haverford-1?page=1

 

Thanks. The issue is the other schools without support at the moment are perfect academic fits. The ones who have offered support are great LA schools but majors could be bit of a stretch. 

Agree on asking the coaches about chances on admission on own and go from there. 

Still a tough choice after working so hard!

thanks also for the thread on Haverford 

You might also want to look at this recent thread:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...30#54377430071207030