High School Team issues...What do I do?

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:
I am afraid I can't classify playing time with the HS baseball team or a run in with the coach as something that is that big of a deal.

Girls say no to dates, people don't hire kids at McDonald's, they don't get to drive the car they want and on and on. There will be hundreds of disapointments and slights big & small and imagined or real. Everyone starts dealing with this as soon as they are born. Some of it matters but most of it is unimportant and forgotten. I might be a little bit tough here but almost all Americans really don't know what adversity is short of a death in the family. Our country is so great with so many opportunities that almost everyone has not only food and the basic necessities but things that most of the world would think of as luxuries like cars, electricity, plumbing, air conditioning, flat screens, cable etc.

Let's put the High School baseball team in the proper perspective. For millions of kids it'll be the end of a sporting career becasue they aren't good enough to go further in the game. They will survive, have productive lives and the world will stay on it's axis.

Great point, I agree.

This reminds me of one of those goofy facebook pages that you can like, or whatever. One asked "What is the greatest obstacle your son has had to overcome to play baseball?" There were a few incredible ones, including; missing a season to go through chemo, a few about having T-1 diabetes, a boy with aspergers trying to play, a pitcher getting hit in the head by a hit ball, etc. Some very big obstacles. But even after reading these, some parents still say their big obstacle was daddy ball, coaches not liking their son, and that type of stuff. Amazing what people think is an obstacle. Maybe their son is really blessed and that is the big hurdle of his life.

We find obstacles, big and small, in everything we do. We deal with them as they arise. Some people plow through them without a second thought and some people sit and complain. Winners plow, losers b i t c h.

There's no such thing as "fair." Make your own destiny. Like the kids with T-1 diabetes, or the kid going through chemo. They decided to plow.

There are a few posters on this thread that fall into the later category. Quit complaining and have your boys (not you) do something about their situation. Freekin' crybabies.

Rant off.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

I agree letting him face adversity but i also agree just like a promotion if u arent happy u go somewhere else....the whole situation is a life lesson....not just half of it

Well the other half should be that he was "the third best hitter" on a 15u team, which is the age of a freshman team. And your upset he didn't make JV against 16 & 17 year olds?

I hope you do transfer. Preferably to the East Texas powerhouse where trad's YouTube created prodigy will be playing.

I never said he was the third best hitter on his travel team...I said he hit third on JV last year as an 8th grader and hit 3rd on his travel team...I also never said he didnt make JV...I said he didnt make Varsity after 3 9th graders and 1 8th grader which are the 3 coaches kids made Varsity.

My only concern with the whole thing is even when he is a senior he will never be on a level playing field after what happened this year...also the 2 coaches kids play the same postions he plays....Let me get one thing straight my son will start in the OF and will get plenty of playing time on JV...Playing JV is not an issue its the principle of the situation...He really wants to play first base and knows he will never get that chance where he is at now he was not even allowed to tryout for Varsity or JV for a particular position...I only wanted to know if I should move him to a private school...I am not crying, whining, Bitching, Moaning or whatever...I am not trying to make life easier for my son...trust me military/college family here...BUT trust me when I say there is a issue at this school...

went to varsity scrimmage last night..well the one coaches son didnt even know how to hold runners as a pitcher. one runner was standing halfway between 1st and 2nd and the pitcher did nothing...sad but true....other coaches son gave up 6 runs as the starting pitcher...remember 9th graders...they arent ready but it wont be noticed trust me...OH yeah 4 errors at 1st base...just got a chuckle out of it...

Regardless of the circumstances I feel it is very lame when an adult has to speak badly about young players.
Find a good travel summer team and stop whining dad, this was a scrimmage, sit back and watch as things unfold, players that can't compete usually don't last long on the team, coach's sons or not.
This is a good lesson for your son (and you) to learn that you can't always get what you want, and he better learn how to play other positions, colleges coaches don't recruit based on who can play first base and who can't.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Regardless of the circumstances I feel it is very lame when an adult has to speak badly about young players.
Find a good travel summer team and stop whining dad, this was a scrimmage, sit back and watch as things unfold, players that can't compete usually don't last long on the team, coach's sons or not.
This is a good lesson for your son (and you) to learn that you can't always get what you want, and he better learn how to play other positions, colleges coaches don't recruit based on who can play first base and who can't.

The best, most direct answer to this situation to date!

Unfortunately TPM, I think it's falling upon deaf ears.

I think you have found the answer to your problem. If you went to watch the varsity scrimmage and your son was not involved, and you went to criticize every move made, you may be the reason your son is not achieving his potential. When coaches make teams they do not keep players that will detract from the overall team chemistry. The same goes for parents. If a parent is going to cause a cancer, then the player should be lucky to be on the JV. Keep positive, say NOTHING negative about the other players and the coaching and your son might stand a chance. If you feed into this my son against them attitude, he will never grasp the team concept and will never see the field.

dolphindan1 - this board is not as anonymous as some think - your player specific criticism will be easy for some to decode and determine the names of the players you refer to. I a presuming that you had no intention of calling out players by name and embarrassing them - so be careful.

llet me say this----based on dads posts here the son, regardless of how much talent he has would not be invited to play for our travel team other travel team coaches may agree

quote:

I only wanted to know if I should move him to a private school

YES ALREADY!

My son played catcher his first two years in high school, middle infield the next two. Now he's playing outfield in college, and he's just happy to be on the field and getting to play. Don't worry about positions, just be glad he's playing

There's always the real possibility that this kid is in a no win situation. Thousands of kids have transfered schools for many different reasons. They are not all bad kids with bad parents. That said, it can be a red flag for decision makers.

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

I never said he was the third best hitter on his travel team...I said he hit third on JV last year as an 8th grader and hit 3rd on his travel team...

Really?

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

he also had the 3rd highest batting average on team.

Dolphin, I would assume your private tuition is about 10K a year for 4 years....40K. At about 20 games a year that's just 500.00 a game for what sounds like bad high school baseball since Freshman and 8th grades not even in high school make varsity no matters whose kids they are!

That's a deal, 500/game. You should totally do it.

Never once have I heard you address education. That's why kids go to high school. Your original post was hard to relate to but boy, your last one was a doozy. Take something for your anxiety and a chill pill too and use your check book as you really are missing the point to all the posts aimed at helping you. Did you even read mine about what my son endured and how it has been resolved?

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

I never said he was the third best hitter on his travel team...I said he hit third on JV last year as an 8th grader and hit 3rd on his travel team...

Really?

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

he also had the 3rd highest batting average on team.

come on now iron, in all fairness...we all know that 3rd best batting average by no way means 3rd best hitter.....and we all know that th best hitter always bats clean-up right?(lol)

Dolphin,
As others have stated, what your son or you decide is his best position may not be what he ends up playing. My son was a catcher for 10 years, 2 years all league voted by the players best defensive catcher in league.
In junior college was changed to pitcher/closer received 3 offers to 4 year schools after J.C. graduation 2 as pitcher 1 as 3rd base starter.

You never know what a coach may have in mind for your player or as in my son's case God does. TOFT

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:
Let me get one thing straight my son will start in the OF and will get plenty of playing time on JV...Playing JV is not an issue its the principle of the situation...He really wants to play first base and knows he will never get that chance where he is at now he was not even allowed to tryout for Varsity or JV for a particular position...I only wanted to know if I should move him to a private school...I am not crying, whining, Bitching, Moaning or whatever...I am not trying to make life easier for my son...trust me military/college family here...BUT trust me when I say there is a issue at this school...

dolphindan1 - Maybe this thread will help answer some questions. But only if you read it in its entirety and then honestly assess your son's ability. Like i said in a previous post here. JV as a FROSH is a good thing, JV as an 8th grader is a GREAT thing. Be proud of his accomplishment and don’t worry about the others. It will all work out.

bballdad2016 - I agree with everything you said except that "It will all work out" This is usually the case, but when Dads are coaching it is unlikely.

quote:

Originally posted by callmecoach:
bballdad2016 - I agree with everything you said except that "It will all work out" This is usually the case, but when Dads are coaching it is unlikely.

Well boo frickin' hoo for you, too.

Sometimes I wonder why we have so many excuse-making kids these days. Then I read these threads.

Dolphin: I suggest you go to the recruiting section and read the thread on corner positions. The theme is colleges don't recruit first basemen.

How could this be a no win situation, it's not like the player was cut, as a 9th grader he was placed on JV. He obviously isn't ready for V, has nothing to do with ANYONE ELSE. This is something that parents have to come to grips with, sit back and just watch things unfold, he's got FOUR years to play HS baseball.

How many players has that happened to, they didn't make V, they didn't get to play their fav position... MANY. It happened to mine, and I can assure you that he was pretty good as a 9th grader, we didn't think TWICE about it.

Answer to your question, should the player go to a private school? Sure go for it, but don't come back here complaining that someone got to play first base and yours didn't ...just saying.

quote:

Answer to your question, should the player go to a private school? Sure go for it, but don't come back here complaining that someone got to play first base and yours didn't ...just saying.

Do you mean like players have baseball playing sons who are major benefactors of the school?

Who gets the starting position at a private school? The marginally better player or the player whose dad donated 50K at the last fundraiser?

The moral of the story: You can run into politics everywhere. The walls weren't put there to keep you out. The walls were put there to see how badly you want in.

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Originally posted by RJM:

The moral of the story: You can run into politics everywhere. The walls weren't put there to keep you out. The walls were put there to see how badly you want in.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Nice lesson. You're kid will be a pleasure to coach, I'm sure.

And I bet you'll be the first one want to meet with the coach when a soph. takes your son's spot when he's a senior. "He's earned it!" you'll say.

Again, coaches aren't the one's screwing up today's kids.

You do not know every situation. We have several great kids (top 10% of class) who have left the team because of our head coach. He is mentally abusive and has even gotten physical with a player and other coaches. The school system was made aware of this yet nothing was done. My son loves the game and plays year round. He is not interested in playing anymore and seem to be just going through the motions. This is a kid with top 20 juco's and some smaller D-1 schools looking at him. It's not Penn State by no means but their are coaches with a very negative effect on some of our kids today.

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Originally posted by nocryinginbaseball:

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Nice lesson. You're kid will be a pleasure to coach, I'm sure.

And I bet you'll be the first one want to meet with the coach when a soph. takes your son's spot when he's a senior. "He's earned it!" you'll say.

Again, coaches aren't the one's screwing up today's kids.

You do not know every situation. We have several great kids (top 10% of class) who have left the team because of our head coach. He is mentally abusive and has even gotten physical with a player and other coaches. The school system was made aware of this yet nothing was done. My son loves the game and plays year round. He is not interested in playing anymore and seem to be just going through the motions. This is a kid with top 20 juco's and some smaller D-1 schools looking at him. It's not Penn State by no means but their are coaches with a very negative effect on some of our kids today.

My son started for three years for a coach that for everything he knew about baseball he was lacking in personal in communication skills. My son feared him his sophomore year. For three years my son only knew where he stood based on how he felt coming off the field. Instead of shrinking it made my son a leader. The next two years he took younger players under his wing and told them not to take any of it personally. Just respect he's the coach.

My son even had to tell me not to take it personally when the coach threw him under the bus in the newspaper for a bad week. When I showed the article to my son he shrugged it off. He said he deals with it all the time in practice and been screamed at in games, so what's the big deal about getting trashed in the paper.

If you don't coddle your kid you give him a chance to grow. Do you think our kids will encounter impossible people in the real world when they're older and we can't be there for them? If the classroom prepares kids for the future why can't a difficult coach at school?

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
If you don't coddle your kid you give him a chance to grow. Do you think our kids will encounter impossible people in the real world when they're older and we can't be there for them? If the classroom prepares kids for the future why can't a difficult coach at school?

Please stop this. Rational thought has no place in this thread. Obviously.

quote:

Originally posted by nocryinginbaseball:

We have several great kids (top 10% of class) who have left the team because of our head coach. He is mentally abusive and has even gotten physical with a player and other coaches. The school system was made aware of this yet nothing was done. My son loves the game and plays year round. He is not interested in playing anymore and seem to be just going through the motions. This is a kid with top 20 juco's and some smaller D-1 schools looking at him. It's not Penn State by no means but their are coaches with a very negative effect on some of our kids today.

I highly doubt he has lost interest in playing any more because of a bad head coach. It simply be could be because he's decided he's done playing. Sure, bad coaches can create a bad environment in their program but if a player wants to play baseball beyond HS, he will in spite of the coach. Especially if they're seniors because the seniors tend to feel a little more secure in their place and are typically in the mindset of looking to graduation, proms and all the other perks being a senior. My son played in a program that wasn't so hot and some of the same things went on like putting down players, players dropping out of the program etc. but in the end, it's up to the players to man up and deal with it. Some will and others make excuses. My son chose to deal with it and block all that stuff out. He didn't stop playing because of his head coach. There were times he felt like quitting because of the negativity but he never used it as any excuse for anything. Now maybe his coach could've done a better job of communicating with his players but he didn't so they had to figure it out or quit the team. One player just got drafted in the high rounds last year and the same coach was there so you can't say the coach held him back. If you're hooked on the game and want to play at a high level, a bad HS coach isn't gonna be the reason to hold back anyone. He might not have be much help but if he isn't then you should be pursuing the goal of playing at a higher level on your own by putting in the time in the gym, battiung cages, the field, getting on those competitive summer teams and being pro-active in the persuit of playing college ball.

Another great point by RJM. I'll spare you the details, but my son played 4 years of HS ball for a guy who was even worse. Just a sorry human being. He also played on a lot of BAD teams during his 6 years of JV and HS ball.

Do I wish that his HS experience had been better? Sure. But one thing he learned in HS ball was how to deal with adversity. Errors behind him, bad umpires, screaming fans, screaming coaches, none of it phases him. I'm not sure he would have that same confidence and serenity had he not been through all the ****.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
My son started for three years for a coach that for everything he knew about baseball he was lacking in personal in communication skills. My son feared him his sophomore year. For three years my son only knew where he stood based on how he felt coming off the field. Instead of shrinking it made my son a leader. The next two years he took younger players under his wing and told them not to take any of it personally. Just respect he's the coach.

My son even had to tell me not to take it personally when the coach threw him under the bus in the newspaper for a bad week. When I showed the article to my son he shrugged it off. He said he deals with it all the time in practice and been screamed at in games, so what's the big deal about getting trashed in the paper.

If you don't coddle your kid you give him a chance to grow. Do you think our kids will encounter impossible people in the real world when they're older and we can't be there for them? If the classroom prepares kids for the future why can't a difficult coach at school?

quote:

Originally posted by callmecoach:
bballdad2016 - I agree with everything you said except that "It will all work out" This is usually the case, but when Dads are coaching it is unlikely.

Joe Meggs - Junior @ University of Washington

Lindsay Meggs - University of Washington Head Coach

bball dad: Ritch Price, the KU coach quoted in the article had 3 sons play for him at Kansas... all 3 of them just shredded the record book. they were indredible college players.

On the issue of Daddy Ball:

I don't think Dads should be disqualified from coaching their own sons (heck, I am on the staff at my son's HS, but I carefully avoid doing any coaching of him, generally don't participate in playing time decisions at his level, and try to stay out of any evaluations of him), and the fact of the matter often is that coaches' sons are among the best, most committed, and best prepared athletes on the team.

Rather, it is just a red flag to me, and like other red flags, a point of initial concern can either intensify or be satisfied upon further examination.

Especially beginning at travel ball ages (I'd say 14U being the year where I've most often seen this), you have to wonder why Dads are still in the dugout. If their kid is not pretty obviously in the upper third of players in terms of ability, and/or you don't see right away that the coach is bringing something of quality to the table in terms of coaching ability and experience, that's a double red flag for me, screaming out "I am here to protect my kid's playing time!" That impression might eventually be proven wrong, but if I had another alternative, I would probably move on before enough time passed to find that out.

quote:

Originally posted by callmecoach:
bballdad2016 - I agree with everything you said except that "It will all work out" This is usually the case, but when Dads are coaching it is unlikely.

I just don't understand how these general statements can be considered fact.

Dad's coaching their own kids is bad.
Travel ball is bad.
Rec ball is bad.
etc.
etc.

I stayed away from coaching my kids in school ball. I was offered softball and baseball positions. My kids had heard enough jibberish about position and spot in the order being because their dad coaches. They did it without me coaching in middle school and high school. For those who bash kids it usually gets back to them. You tell your kid. He tells a teammate and then the word spreads.

I personally have NEVER seen a situation where a parent coaching did not result in favoritism - sometimes extreme - for their kid and their friends. Whether it is in innings played, first crack at their favorite position, spot in the batting order, reps in the cage or the field, benefit of the doubt when playing poorly, etc. If someone is equal or better than their son at a position, the first move is to try to convince the other kid that they would be better at another position.

All of the parent coaches out there can say it is not them, that they treat their kid the same or worse, but I think 90% would probably say that and I have never seen it.

quote:

Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
I personally have NEVER seen a situation where a parent coaching did not result in favoritism - sometimes extreme - for their kid and their friends. Whether it is in innings played, first crack at their favorite position, spot in the batting order, reps in the cage or the field, benefit of the doubt when playing poorly, etc. If someone is equal or better than their son at a position, the first move is to try to convince the other kid that they would be better at another position.

All of the parent coaches out there can say it is not them, that they treat their kid the same or worse, but I think 90% would probably say that and I have never seen it.

Nice blanket statement there.

quote:

Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
I personally have NEVER seen a situation where a parent coaching did not result in favoritism - sometimes extreme - for their kid and their friends. Whether it is in innings played, first crack at their favorite position, spot in the batting order, reps in the cage or the field, benefit of the doubt when playing poorly, etc. If someone is equal or better than their son at a position, the first move is to try to convince the other kid that they would be better at another position.

All of the parent coaches out there can say it is not them, that they treat their kid the same or worse, but I think 90% would probably say that and I have never seen it.

You need to get that chip off your shoulder. Sounds like whining Not all dad coaches are like this. I have seen BOTH!

I don't agree with the 90%. Sure it might be a majority but only slight imo. I coached my own child. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in our community that thinks I showed her favortism. In fact, I believe I was at least two times harder on her than any other. Yet, she asked me to coach her in both travel ball and high school ball. Before you call BS on this statement, my daughter was 29-4 as a varsity pitcher for her freshman - junior year. Yet, she only pitched against the top teams in the conference and the top non conference opponents. She never pitched against a team that was middle or lower tier. Along the line, she pitched and defeated 6 state ranked teams all from schools more than twice our school's size and we won the conference all three years with her pitching the conferene championship games. Then, her senior year, she didn't pitch at all. We had a young lady that I thought was better. So, we pitched her instead. That made more than a few parent upset with me. To this day, my daughter has never complained because she knew that I refused to make decisions based upon whether she was my daughter or not

quote:

Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
I personally have NEVER seen a situation where a parent coaching did not result in favoritism - sometimes extreme - for their kid and their friends. Whether it is in innings played, first crack at their favorite position, spot in the batting order, reps in the cage or the field, benefit of the doubt when playing poorly, etc. If someone is equal or better than their son at a position, the first move is to try to convince the other kid that they would be better at another position.

All of the parent coaches out there can say it is not them, that they treat their kid the same or worse, but I think 90% would probably say that and I have never seen it.

We always took batting practice in order of who got to practice first. Seemed to make sense. In order to keep things fair for the rest of the players that did not have the benefit of riding to practice with me; i made my son walk to practice, uphill, both ways, in the snow. In all seriousness, it was only uphill one way.

Like EdgraFan, I too coach at a local high school. You see, I have always coached baseball - but i have never coached my own son. I always thought that he hears enough from me without having to hear it on a baseball field. He cant wait to try out next year, until then he is not allowed at any of my practices or games... for his own good. And he understands why.

Our running joke when my kid was younger was you can always pick out the coaches son.

He will either play second and bat second or play SS and bat first. And be the smallest guy on the team.

We were right about 90% of the time.

Disclaimer – I am a dad coach at the V HS level.

I really appreciate that several recent posts on this thread have acknowledged that not all dad coach situations are bad ones. I totally understand and agree that there are bad ones and even some of the good ones will struggle with some of the added burden of balancing coach and dad responsibilities. IMO, there are an awful lot of ex-player dads who have a lot to offer and without them, you would see far less qualified coaching at many levels. Often (not always), when others complain about daddy ball being the reason for their son’s demise, it is just another easy excuse.


Generally speaking, at the HS level, a prospective coach who is a dad would not make it through the interview process without qualifications that exceed those which a HS is looking for and, certainly, there is dialog that addresses how he may handle the fact that he would be coaching his kid, that he would be under additional scrutiny when this happens and his son would also be put in a difficult position.

Three years ago, two dads (me included) were asked to take charge of the V program. While qualifications and interest were not an issue, we were both reluctant because of the potential “daddy ball” perception issues and mostly concerned about the extra scrutiny our sons would be under. Both sons knew that we would be hardest on them and they would have to earn their way by being clearly better.

Instead of accepting, we stated that we would take the role only after every stone was turned in a search for a qualified non-dad coach/staff. We jumped in and helped in the search effort, contacting everyone with local ties to the baseball community. Ultimately, there was no one else willing to step in.

Three years later, the program has grown positively in every way. The school that was severely struggling to adjust to a new league of larger schools is now flourishing. We have more structure, more wins, more happy and motivated players, better facilities, more fans and far more kids interested in trying out for the baseball program.

I’ll admit that it was a bit easier for me because my son had already established himself as a V starter as a freshman before I was involved in the program, so there was less of a likelihood of perceived favoritism. It was also very helpful that I, as asst coach, was able to largely stay away from positional and play/sit decisions regarding my son.

In our area over the past several years, there have been a handful of coaches at the HS level who have coached their sons. Almost every one of them had excellent qualifications, did a very good job with their team and had kids that excelled at the game. I can think of a few in particular who currently have sons playing successfully in college while the dads continue to run quality HS programs after their own has moved on.

Dads coaching can range from as good as it gets to being a disaster. However, what if a coach was more than qualified, maybe a former professional or college coach, and he volunteers to coach the team his son is on? What if your son is on that team? Wouldn’t your son be likely to benefit from having a quality coach that really knows the game?

I think that the more baseball knowledge any coach has, the better for "all" the players. Sometimes that might be a dad! I do think there are too many cases of dads who know very little about the game taking over teams because of their son. Then they learn a few things and become experts at the game (in their own mind). What’s the old saying… Knows just enough to be dangerous.

Guess I am trying to say that there are many excellent coaches out there that have coached a team their son played for. Also there are lots of outstanding players who played on a team their dad coached. Those coaches should never be labeled as Daddy Ball coaches. Then there are the others who are responsible for the name “Daddy Ball”.