How does this really work?

Oldslugger,

Complicated subject that is usually made too complicated.

Assume for a minute that a school decides to fund all 11.7 scholarships.

At that point the budgeting and dollars have been decided.

The coach must then allocate those scholarships amongst the roster until it totals 11.7. (except at the University of Texas, ).

The NCAA limit is 11.7 scholarships. The NCAA does not care how much it costs.

But, naturually scholarship recipients covert that scholarship offer into dollars and percentages for many reasons.

Of course there are many ways for a scholarship offer to be expressed.

But, I think, many times a recipient will hear, "You will receive books, You will receive tuition, You will receive room and board", or some combinations of these items.

Top pitchers might get a full ride, bottom long shot pitchers might get books. Catchers and "up the middle guys" might get 50%, or more. (see how that slips in)

The rest will likely hover around the average.

So, at a school where room/board and tuition books, fees, each total about 50% of the total cost of the school, a player would be receiving 50% whether in the form of room/board or tution, books, and fees.

If books are about $1,000 bucks per year and the total cost is $10,000, the that is about 10%, obviously, and ten players would equal one scholarship for NCAA purposes.

As recipients we are spending dollars so we interpret using dollars, but the coach has 11.7 scholarships to spend, his dollar decision has already been made.

And while we are on the subject, with a cost of maybe $20,000 per year at a Texas state school, 11.7 scholarships, computes to about $234,000 in costs that are not actually paid out, just not collected by the school.

And on one well attended weekend series between Texas and Texas A&M, the revenues are easily $250,000.

So, the answer to question 1 is the neither get reduced to the school, but the costs to the scholarship recipient could be affected if the out-of-state tuition rate is not waived.

The answer to question 2 is that it does not matter to the school.

The answer to questioin 3 is that the scholarships are reduced by 1 to 10.7.

Yes, the confusion rests with using 11.7 and real dollars.

The only real dollars that change hands are the ones that the scholarship recipients ends up paying.

Talent will drive a coach to recruit out of state, but many times coaches recruit relatively close to home, (except at the University of Tennessee, ).

A full-ride offer to a need-based family would make a kid leave home, if he likes the school, assuming the other indirect costs, such as travel to the school and parents attending games are not a factor.

For a needs based family, (and ALL of us are), those indirect costs, such as travel to the school and parents attending games can be a significant factor).

FO,
Excellent answer!


As far as books, I do believe if that is all that is offered, some schools have funds that cover it, not even cutting into the 11.7.

OS,
I have told this story before, son was offered an in state offer of 98%. Son earned his tuition to be paid by our state scholarship program, books were on the house as were meals for baseball season. All that was really involved was them paying the cost of 97% of his room,and meal plan for one semester. For an in state student, it doesn't break the bank. Considering their budget probably falls well into over 200K, I didn't consider it a very lucrative offer, less out of our pocket, but less invested in him. the point I am making that 98%, was NOT almost 1 of the 11.7. That's a personal decision. It's confusing but if you look at it dollar wise, not in percentages, it makes more sense.
I suggest when offered a percentage to find out exactly what that percentage translates into dollars and "sense" for you. What is covered. Also how does that translate into the next year when son decides to live off campus. Do know that many schools just give a stipend. You don't have to ask the coach, call up the school to find out exactly what costs are involved for yearly fees (like medical fees, licensing fees for website, lab fees). Call the scholarship office to see what they allow after freshman year. Not all coaches are aware of all those little incidentals.

And not all the colleges and universities do things the same way.

There is truly no general rule across the board

They may also include "X" number of out of state recruits in the dollar figure--thus you could possibly add another $30,000 to the total

For example schools like Stanford, Duke and Notre Dame are loaded with out of state players

Like I say each schools does its own thing


BUT

At the end of the day does it really matter as long as your get the $$ package you need--that is all that mattered to me

This question still puzzles me.
I won't use the numbers from the school my son attends as it is not proper to do so.
One school with total costs $30,000 offered $17,000. Another total cost $24,000 offered $13,000. How does this compute out of the 11.7. I do know that these schools did not have 11.7 to duvy up but assume they did.

Here is how a DI head coach described it to me:

The NCAA defines a "full scholarship" as the cost of tuition, fees, housing, meals, and books for an "average student" at each school. Therefore, at state-supported universities, a "full scholarship" is determined by the weighted average of those costs spread across the entire student body. That causes it to be reflective of the proportions of in-state and out-of-state students and the relative difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition.

Each year, the AD's office takes the dollar amount of a "full scholarship" and multiplies it by the number of scholarships a sport is allowed. In the case of DI baseball, that number is 11.7 (where the program is fully funded). That result gives the baseball coaching staff its scholarship budget for the year, which is then divided up among the players.

Even though a "full scholarship," by definition, exceeds the costs for in-state students, my strong impression is that most DI coaches at state-supported universities generally "low ball" their scholarship offers to in-state students, reserving a disproportionate amount of their scholarship budget for out-of-state players.

They have a variety of reasons for approaching the exercise in this way. Included among these are (1) the presumption that in-state players are more highly motivated to attend their home state's school and (2) the attendant costs are lower, thus easier for in-state families to bear. Meanwhile, they often feel they have to "go the extra mile" with out-of-state players in order to win them away from their home state schools.

(By the way, not all states offer a "relaxation" of out-of-state tuition like that mentioned earlier by TigerPawMom. It varies from state to state.)

Most schools do not have the fully funded 11.7--thus unless you know what the school has funded all equations and computations are an exercise in futility

from the way one coach described it to me, this is true then;

quote:

Each year, the AD's office takes the dollar amount of a "full scholarship" and multiplies it by the number of scholarships a sport is allowed. In the case of DI baseball, that number is 11.7 (where the program is fully funded). That result gives the baseball coaching staff its scholarship budget for the year, which is then divided up among the players.

As stated earlier from there they get 11.7. The school that had cost $24000 and offered a player $13200, made that player a .55 qualifier. He was getting .55 of his total college cost. His .55 was then subtracted from the 11.7 leaving him 11.15 scholarships.

What helps each program is when the NLI is a $$$ amount. The following year or when the player reports next Sept and the cost of school has increased X dollars that coach actually gains money in his scholarship budget.

There is one Mid Atlantic school who increased costs from $30K to $40k for this fall. If your player was getting a $25K ride last year he's paying a bit more this year. Had his offer been a % then he would have gotten an automatic increase.

(By the way, not all states offer a "relaxation" of out-of-state tuition like that mentioned earlier by TigerPawMom. It varies from state to state.)

Prepster,
I was not referring to son's scholarhip at CU, but to one that was offered here in Florida. I do not know what our in state schools offer for out of state students. Sorry for the confusion.

"Even though a "full scholarship," by definition, exceeds the costs for in-state students, my strong impression is that most DI coaches at state-supported universities generally "low ball" their scholarship offers to in-state students, reserving a disproportionate amount of their scholarship budget for out-of-state players".

This is what we believed happened in the scenerio I stated in post. I figured out his 98% would have cost them in reality 2K out of their budget, probably in reality to his budget maybe .2.

Coach Merc,
Some people say the dollar amount is better, but you are correct, getting the NLI that gives a percentage will work best in one's favor.
Again if a coach offers let's say a 50% scholarship, don't feel badly that he has used up a large portion of the 11.7. In reality it may just be a samller fraction of the total.

All parents should concern themselves with is what their bottom $ line will be, not using up part of the 11.7.

So, from what I have read so far, I would find it hard for a "certain out-of-state" university to defray much of the $40,000 annual cost to a parent of a player, assuming he is again for illustrative purposes, one of 30.

If the player is a blue-chipper, why would the coach offer more?

If the coach gave the kid 50%, the parents fork out $20,000. In the big major "in-state school", the coach can offer a higher percentage if need be of a lower rate?

Prepster quoted this............
Here is how a DI head coach described it to me:

The NCAA defines a "full scholarship" as the cost of tuition, fees, housing, meals, and books for an "average student" at each school. Therefore, at state-supported universities, a "full scholarship" is determined by the weighted average of those costs spread across the entire student body. That causes it to be reflective of the proportions of in-state and out-of-state students and the relative difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition.

Based on that, I guess you wait for the dollar offer, but, the point of my post was to start paring down the schools interested in my kid.

I have no problem with paying my fair share. Having 4 kids, I am conditioned to it, but I want to maximize the situation.

I hope all the boys have a goal of taking their shot at MLB.............the process seems easier.............go to college later!

"Based on that, I guess you wait for the dollar offer, but, the point of my post was to start paring down the schools interested in my kid."

Based on what you have learned and understand, doing your homework in advance may determine the decision that is finally made.


"I hope all the boys have a goal of taking their shot at MLB.............the process seems easier.............go to college later!"

This is a very big consideration when contemplating one's decision to attend college or pro. There is the MLB scholarship to consider, but is only good if one decides to actually go to school later on.

One more thing to share. Try to use the knowledge that you have gained here for yourself to better understand how a coach can have 35 players with 11.7 scholarships, not to try to undermine a coaches offer.

quote:

by OS-8: "Based on that, I guess you wait for the dollar offer, but, the point of my post was to start paring down the schools interested in my kid."

be careful with that, because you may actually be judging their availability of funds
& not "true interest"

good explaination by Prepster, but keep in mind TR's comment about schools handling it differently

quote:

by OS-8: "I would find it hard for a "certain out-of-state" university to defray much of the $40,000 annual cost to a parent of a player"

SOME CAN DO IT . . a coach explained to me how HIS school handles scholly accounting - very similar to above, EXCEPT for tuitions -

their tuitions are EXACLY that - "a tuition credit" - if one tuition is split 50/50 between an in-state & out-of-state student, there will be a LARGE DIFFERENCE in the DOLLAR effect on the student's INVOICE - (a much higher dollar value to the out-of-stater, of course)

yet in his NCAA compliance accounting he simply used ONE tuition out of his 11.7

hope that helps



.

quote:

If the player is a blue-chipper, why would the coach offer more?

Because he it talented.

Because the program needs his talented skills.

Family and player have to travel futher, so greater indirect costs.

Needs based.

They are looking for talent.

Talent ain't cheap and they know it.

If their whine level ain't matching your son's talent level, don't listen.

When they start trying to figure out a way to get him there, listen.

quote:

If the coach (out of state)gave the kid 50%, the parents fork out $20,000. In the big major "in-state school", the coach can offer a higher percentage if need be of a lower rate?

So, in your example, where all other variables are equal and the in state coach offers 50% where total costs are $20,000 and you are gonna be out $10,000 instate versus $20,000 out of state, whatcha gonna do?

THANKS.

So the dollars are different depending on residency.

Anyway, it will be up to the boy after visits, and the financial aspect will be just a part of the decision process. I know he will choose PT over many of the other factors involved, which is fine with me.

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
THANKS.

So the dollars are different depending on residency.

No true. Ours sons instate was larger than out of state, one thing, the state was paying a large portion NOT the school.
Some OS schools might offer more, but then MIGHT waive the OS fee to make it more affordable.
Again, bottom line is know what your final dollar contribution will be for all schools, forget trying to figure out percentages. If a coach says they are offerieng 50%, ask 50% of what?
However, insist that the NLI be in percentage.

TPM

It all depends on the school and the STATE--every state is different when it comes to state schools--every private school is different

I had my sons NLI done in dollars so I knew what it was without a doubt--no room for error--use a % and it is open to interpretation and misinterpretation--

got to keep the variables out of the equation.

Example:

Big-Ten in-state $18,000
Private ACC $40,000

If both offer 50%, do the math..........I pay either $9000 or $20,000

Now I am getting conflicting reports again.

As a CPA, I know basic math, not the complex stuff our kids know!

TR,
I do believe this was mentioned, but if you missed it again, if a coach says we'll give you 5000K a year you suffer when the tuition and expenses goes up. Coach says we'll give you 10%, etc., you won't get hit as hard when the bill goes up.
OS,
Your most recent post was about offering high percentages and getting in a whole team on a roster with 11.7. A coach can offer 50%, on a 40K your half is 20K. But some how he manages to get HIS 20K (50%)significantly reduced without you even being aware of it. So while you pay the 50%, his percentage gets down to maybe less than a tenth in his reporting of 11.7. (EXAMPLE ONLY). And he stays within budget. It's not done everywhere, but done and takes a smart coach to be a smart accountant as far as recruiting goes.This is just an FYI, take it for what it's worth. If you get it fine, if not, no big deal, you will.
Reread post by Coach Merc, FO, Bee and Prepster.

One thing I agree with, it's YOUR bottom line that you should be concerned with, not how coach spreads out his 11.7.

quote:

by os-8: got to keep the variables out of the equation

why
in the final analysis those variables are more important and telling than percentages & ratios



Big-Ten in-state
ave. 80 sunny days per year
55,000 students
monster campus
nice stadium
"average" baseball conference
competitive in their conference
nearer driving
chicks
snow
drink of preference - Budweiser

Private ACC
ave. 160 sunny days per year
4,800 students
tidy campus
nice stadium
"TOP" baseball conference
rebuilding under new coach
further driving
southern chicks
rarely snows
drink of preference - sweet tea, or Strohs


jmo

.

TPM is absolutely correct...
Keep this in mind, any financial aid or academic money (under certain score) count as baseball money when combined with scholarship money for the first year only. After freshman year, only the baseball money counts against the 11.7.
Example: Coach makes a 10K offer and then the students family qualifies for 5K in financial aid. The offer against the 11.7 the first year is still 10K. The next 3 years the player is still getting 10K (5K baseball, 5K financial aid)but the coach now only uses 5K against the 11.7. The opportunity to be creative as TPM states increases.

TPM

I hope you and your friends do not think I am "pontificating" but I did not miss what you said

AND

I still say get the $$$ amount not the % thus you know what you are receiving and a simple addition suntraction tells you how large or small your portion is when you write the check.

Also the amount is renewable every year even in the same amount, more or in some instances less and is in a sense negotiable every June.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Merc:

There is one Mid Atlantic school who increased costs from $30K to $40k for this fall. If your player was getting a $25K ride last year he's paying a bit more this year. Had his offer been
a % then he would have gotten an automatic increase.

TR,
I do believe it was first brought up by Coach Merc. However, I see you still have a way of opposing ME whenever possible.

Not correcting --- just offering my opinion based on my years of experience--you are entitled to speak your piece anytime--I just do not agree with what you say in this instance

I looked up my son's paper work. The academic money is renewable automatically every year as long as he maintains a 2.0 GPA. There is also a possibility of increase depending on how well he does.
The baseball money (the smaller amount) is renewable but is only for 1 year. We signed late and there was not a lot of baseball money left. If my son does well there is a chance of ingreasing the amount but if he doaesn't it will probably stay the same.
I think I would rather know the amount but both ways have their advantages.

Slugger,

You didn't start the debate.

You just stepped in the middle of the great master debate with a couple of our master debaters.

quote:

1. Opportunity to play NOW
2. Location............can he get home rather quickly, and can we come watch rather quickly
3. $$$$$

That will work out very well for you.

Go for it.