There were so many parents like this poster when I was playing. They were too hung up on the coach. The parents attitude towards the coach became a distraction for the kid and affected his attitude and his advancement.
BBDAD98 posted:....The HS coach does not want them to ever swing a wood bat at his practices and that goes for tee work on up. I agree about a wood bat not being used during HS games.
So, use it in outside practice/instruction
My sons throwing motion lol! No I did not thank the coach for that info. I knew that my son threw a little weird and we had tried to address it before. My son was getting the job done, on a line and on target the way he had been coached. I see no benefit in throwing a rainbow over the cut off guys and 3rd base, sorry I don't.
Why do I find it hard to believe that the coach was teaching specifically to throw a rainbow over the cut?
... The HS coach spent all last season with him and did not mention it until the end of the year meeting as a reason he was not going to play at the next level. The coach was of little to no help.
Why do I find it even more difficult to believe that the coach brought it up end of year but never mentioned it once during the whole season?
Joking but not really I looked up the coaches senior PG measurable stats and I have to say they are not great numbers so maybe they really don't matter to him, but for a different reason.
So, you trolled your son's HS coach' playing day stats to use against him in public forum... nice. New level.
It has become glaringly evident that your son has made some nice improvements since last year but you are very much the same person, despite dozens of knowledgeable, experienced folks here trying to help steer you to a better path for your son's sake. (For those wondering why I am taking a particularly harsh tone, please read this poster's MANY previous posts in this thread.)
I do honestly hope your son is able to overcome what I suspect are his biggest two hurdles.
I think you are blowing up what the coach said. Players were talking about what they could throw and one is bragging that player X could throw 88 and the others were questioning it. The player check out his PG stats and the coach said PG stats don't really matter which they don't. How fast can you throw and well can you help the team. I also do not think a coach's playing ability affects his ability to coach. I know some great coaches who never played the game but have learned how to coach it well.
I also understand a coach not wanting wood. Swing it during the off season but swing the bbcor during practice and games. Don't agree with it but understand if it is his philosophy then go with it. My son was the only player allowed to swing wood bat during bp at his high school. when the coach was asked, he said when you start hitting .500 and double digit HR's then you can swing wood also.
I have told my son that I do not agree with some peoples baseball ideas. I have not told my son that the coach is dumb. He can come to his own conclusions. My son is not dumb and he reads people very well. I told my son to bring his wood bat home from school. I went out and got my son a used BP bat and put new grip on it for HS since he can't use his wooden one and I didn't want him to wear out or break his composite bat in this cold weather. My son never mentioned his playing time or any HS stuff to his Travel coach. During the season the travel coached asked my son about HS and the Travel coach mention that the HS coach was dumb and wanted to wring his next. My sons travel coach was an ex minor league player for many years and now current Juco college head coach. If it even matters.
BBDAD-
I'm going to assume your son is easily good enough to be playing varsity.
Therefore, I think the reason your son hasn't made varsity is that the coach has either heard from others or seen for himself that you are a potentially disruptive baseball dad.
It's unfortunate when sons have to pay for the sins of their fathers, but sometimes it's reality.
Prime evidence that you aren't thinking straight is the fact that you have posted so many identifiable details about your son's situation. which means it's plausible that the HSV coach has been reading this thread.
Coach: "Sorry Jimmy, I know you killed it in tryouts and look to be a promising player, but Johnny hit .374 in his Perfect Game tournaments this summer so I have to do what is right"
CoachB25 posted:I too find it odd that PG Stats came up in a conversation. Did you, as a dad, go up to make sure that this ignorant coach knew how good your son was? Did your son go up and say to the coach that he had a great summer and the number prove that he is better than the rest of the guys? Personally, I love for my hitters to hit with wood as much as they can but in a game, no way. There are advantages to the wood in that, imo, they can make the swing mechanics better. There are advantages to these other bats and those advantages outweigh the wood bat in HS games. This is an interesting thread!
Finally, any negative conversations with you son about how you dislike this coach will not help your son. In fact, they just might be a reason why he isn't getting that shot at V that you want.
I want to make one more point. Not only would I not care about some summer stats, I don't care about the stats for the year before for my varsity players. That was last year. This year, they need to prove to me again that they deserve to be on that field. That letter they earned was for last year as well.
BBDAD98 posted:I have told my son that I do not agree with some peoples baseball ideas. I have not told my son that the coach is dumb. He can come to his own conclusions. My son is not dumb and he reads people very well. ...
"I have not told my son that the coach is dumb."
You have over 25 posts in this thread (primarily bashing this coach), most are very lengthy, going into great detail of extensive conversations you have had with your son (almost always sympathizing and rationalizing his interactions with the coach), conversations among teammates you have overheard, conversations with other coaches and instructors who supposedly have negative things to say about this coach and VERY extensive tracking of your son's stats at every turn in effort to prove this coach wrong and incompetent. It would be absolutely impossible for you to not have conveyed your feelings about this coach in some manner to your son. Who are we kidding?
If you honestly believe your son is not fully aware and picking up on your vibe and is not influenced by it, you are seriously mistaken.
You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
game7 posted:BBDAD-
I'm going to assume your son is easily good enough to be playing varsity.
Therefore, I think the reason your son hasn't made varsity is that the coach has either heard from others or seen for himself that you are a potentially disruptive baseball dad.
It's unfortunate when sons have to pay for the sins of their fathers, but sometimes it's reality.
Prime evidence that you aren't thinking straight is the fact that you have posted so many identifiable details about your son's situation. which means it's plausible that the HSV coach has been reading this thread.
First I can't believe this thread is alive again... second I don't really remember much about it and not sure I want to read back so my reply is strictly for onthis statement and has nothing to do with the larger issue.
Ok, when did coaches grow so soft? When are we going to wake up and take the testosterone crisis seriously and realize all this is part of the pussification of America. Never ever ever in my coaching career did me or ANYONE I coached with bring up a kids dad when discussing who should play and where they should play. Are you kidding me???! You put the best 9 on the field. If the coach is so soft he has to 'get even' with the dad by sabotaging a teenager... not much of a man. So if there is really a coach out there who has ever actually done this I would love to hear them admit it and defend it. We may discover this to be mostly myth.
BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad ...
Not one person here said that. You are missing the point yet again.
Wouldn't his teammates want him on the varsity if he could help them?
2020dad posted:game7 posted:BBDAD-
I'm going to assume your son is easily good enough to be playing varsity.
Therefore, I think the reason your son hasn't made varsity is that the coach has either heard from others or seen for himself that you are a potentially disruptive baseball dad.
It's unfortunate when sons have to pay for the sins of their fathers, but sometimes it's reality.
Prime evidence that you aren't thinking straight is the fact that you have posted so many identifiable details about your son's situation. which means it's plausible that the HSV coach has been reading this thread.
First I can't believe this thread is alive again... second I don't really remember much about it and not sure I want to read back so my reply is strictly for onthis statement and has nothing to do with the larger issue.
Ok, when did coaches grow so soft? When are we going to wake up and take the testosterone crisis seriously and realize all this is part of the pussification of America. Never ever ever in my coaching career did me or ANYONE I coached with bring up a kids dad when discussing who should play and where they should play. Are you kidding me???! You put the best 9 on the field. If the coach is so soft he has to 'get even' with the dad by sabotaging a teenager... not much of a man. So if there is really a coach out there who has ever actually done this I would love to hear them admit it and defend it. We may discover this to be mostly myth.
I think human nature in general when evaluating talent has two mindsets which many times is subconscious.
One is looking for reasons to play a kid.
and
Two is looking for reasons not to play a kid.
For obvious reasons you want your kid to land in bucket one.
cabbagedad posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad ...
Not one person here said that. You are missing the point yet again.
He doesn't want to see the point, he's looking for validation in his opinion that the coach is bad and his son should be playing varsity. He attended tryouts and it sounds like he is attending practices as he claims he overheard a player bragging about PG stats. That right there is enough to discredit any objectivity he might have. He is so caught up in his son playing and others not agreeing with him that he doesn't care to listen. When parents like this come up to you in person you have to just nod your head until they leave.
BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Buckeye 2015 posted:A couple things? 1) How did the coach know to say "PG summer stats don't matter"? Please don't tell me that your son told him. 2) You're not seriously advocating that your son would use wood in a HS season over BBCOR? My son hit very, very good with wood....probably as good as he did with metal as far as average and power over 3 seasons of top level summer ball....but he would NEVER have considered using it in a game situation. Sure, balls that are hit well are pretty close to equal, but balls that are mishit with BBCOR can still in some cases end up getting thru....balls that are mishit with wood are ground outs. I guess I can understand your frustration with the HS coach, but your arguments so far (PG stats, etc, etc) aren't proving why he is wrong...just proving that you are way too into stats. If your son is looking to play in college....I would start now....and wipe every stat you know about him out of your head. College coach's don't care....AT ALL. You could hit .750 in HS....but if you hit nothing but hard ground balls that get thru the hole between 1st and 2nd you're not getting a sniff from a college coach. Again, your HS coach may be wrong....but trying to use meaningless stats to prove your point is only digging a deeper hole for your son to dig out of if he wants to play varsity
Absolutely, hit with wood in bp and in wood bat tournaments but not in HS games. You are hurting your team when you don't use the highest performance allowed bat even if you do well with wood.
BBDAD:
A few years ago at the Hall of Fame Baseball field in Cooperstown. Our Goodwill Series American Team is playing the National Team from Japan. On our American team 6 players later played in the ML. One of the parents was behind the home plate screen "yelling" instructions to his son. During the 35 years of the Area Code games and Goodwill Series I have encountered the "over involved" parents. I quietly said to the father "do you want your son "killed"? The Japanese coaches will switch the pitch within seconds and if you son is looking for a slider, it was be a "fastball up and in"!!!
Bob
PS: why not enter your son at the JC where your Summer Coach is the Head Coach?
Things I learned from this thread.
BBDAD98 is one of "those" parents.
Stats don't matter. Even though they are recorded and kept for every level of baseball from T-ball to the MLB.
Wood bats will amplify the flaws in your swing thus over time make you a better hitter, increasing your chances at playing at the next level, but should never be used in game play for the good of the team.
CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
2020dad posted:Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is.
That might have been a good idea before posting.
2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
... and that is what is great about our various coaching styles. You get to run your program as you want and the same with me. Personally, I know how to win. I know what it takes per fundamentals, drill work, ... I am not someone who will let the players dictate to me what they will do in order for me to have the pleasure of having them on the team. I won't allow the parents to tell me what we are going to do as well. I can't imagine a successful system where 18 players with 18 agendas with 36 parents or more tell the coach what to do in practice.
BTW, of course pitchers have different pitches and way to throw. However, I have a system that the pitchers will work within. They won't be telling me that they don't believe in the band work or plyo ball work or ... Each to their own I guess. Again, it is really easy for me to help the OP. Remove your child if you don't like what the coach is doing. As a parent, you'll save your child from the idiot coach and as a coach, I won't be asked to compromise on what I believe to be the best program I can possible run.
Coach B 25—how do you handle kids who have outside instructors whose ideas differ from yours, especially swing mechanics? Ongoing issue between some of our parents and the head coach. Thx.
If you are on a high way and see dozens of wrong way drivers maybe consider that something is wrong
.
smokeminside posted:Coach B 25—how do you handle kids who have outside instructors whose ideas differ from yours, especially swing mechanics? Ongoing issue between some of our parents and the head coach. Thx.
I think a good way that even many minor and major league hitting coaches do is leaving the studs alone. Offer them advice but as long as they rake let them do their thing and spend most energy to improve the 6th to 15th best player of the roster.
Those guys have more potential to improve anyway and usually shouldn't push back unless they have super delusional parents.
When it comes to hitting i tend to leave style things that are individual alone but certain things must be there.
I'm confident i can improve most hitters but if someone doesn't want to listen i don't force him but then he better performs.
CoachB25 posted:2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
... and that is what is great about our various coaching styles. You get to run your program as you want and the same with me. Personally, I know how to win. I know what it takes per fundamentals, drill work, ... I am not someone who will let the players dictate to me what they will do in order for me to have the pleasure of having them on the team. I won't allow the parents to tell me what we are going to do as well. I can't imagine a successful system where 18 players with 18 agendas with 36 parents or more tell the coach what to do in practice.
BTW, of course pitchers have different pitches and way to throw. However, I have a system that the pitchers will work within. They won't be telling me that they don't believe in the band work or plyo ball work or ... Each to their own I guess. Again, it is really easy for me to help the OP. Remove your child if you don't like what the coach is doing. As a parent, you'll save your child from the idiot coach and as a coach, I won't be asked to compromise on what I believe to be the best program I can possible run.
I think that's sad. I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches. And also know how to win. But it's not YOUR program. It's the school's. It's the kids. They were there before you and will be there after you. I sincerely suggest some perspective.
2020dad posted:I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches.
I'm not so sure you do. Coach isn't being a hard-ass; he's being firm.
I think that's sad. I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches. And also know how to win. But it's not YOUR program. It's the school's. It's the kids. They were there before you and will be there after you. I sincerely suggest some perspective.
Amen. Coaches do come and go. So kids should change everything from one year to the next if a new coach is hired? To pretend there aren’t bad coaches is naive. To think some programs aren’t winning in spite of the Coach is naive. Im sure most coaches have good intentions but if it’s not broke, don’t fix it just to have your mark of to show it’s your way or the highway. Example: if a kid is committed to a top 25 program for hitting, you probably don’t need to change his swing... but it happens. And people say if you don’t like it leave? Come on.
At the risk of sending this thread onward for three more pages, on the topic of high school stats, see the bottom of this page from a D1 recruiting coordinator: https://files.armssoftware.com/2030580/9a9d759d0619
My son's HS keeps their stats in the dugout (not a public gamechanger) and hands them out at the baseball banquet at the end of the season. My son definitely had college coaches ask for his stats.
2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
... and that is what is great about our various coaching styles. You get to run your program as you want and the same with me. Personally, I know how to win. I know what it takes per fundamentals, drill work, ... I am not someone who will let the players dictate to me what they will do in order for me to have the pleasure of having them on the team. I won't allow the parents to tell me what we are going to do as well. I can't imagine a successful system where 18 players with 18 agendas with 36 parents or more tell the coach what to do in practice.
BTW, of course pitchers have different pitches and way to throw. However, I have a system that the pitchers will work within. They won't be telling me that they don't believe in the band work or plyo ball work or ... Each to their own I guess. Again, it is really easy for me to help the OP. Remove your child if you don't like what the coach is doing. As a parent, you'll save your child from the idiot coach and as a coach, I won't be asked to compromise on what I believe to be the best program I can possible run.
I think that's sad. I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches. And also know how to win. But it's not YOUR program. It's the school's. It's the kids. They were there before you and will be there after you. I sincerely suggest some perspective.
I agree but I can understand a coach saying my way or highway.
A big company CEO doesn't own the company either but he isn't told how to run the company. You let him do it is way and if he doesn't succeed you fire him.
I think a head coach is similar. You don't micro manage every single of his steps but you let him work and judge the overall product. I will allow a lot of individuality but I too absolutely can't Stand being micro managed.
Either you like the overall product of a coach or you fire him.
Still I think modern coaches should listen to arguments and be open to change. But if he isn't it is not the parents job to change him, either you like the overall product or you don't.
Ok, I know I've posted this before....but watch this.....go t 6:30 in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4QSddCTQo4
This guy is from my small hometown. I coached his kid on our local teams in 6th-8th grades. He was a nut....but I'll admit that some of this is staged...he's not that much of a nut BUT....everyone in our town...and every town around us saw this and thought he was EXACTLY that guy. The guy really never gave me much grief...I was good to his kid and I knew a lot more about baseball than he did. His kid was very good as a 12 year old...and played on a really good travel team. 4 years and 4 travel teams later (because of dad of course), he wasn't playing travel anymore. Ended up being a decent HS player and never went further. Nice kid (loved having him on my teams)...and a friend of my son's...but I think he just got tired of dealing with dad. FYI...dad thought our HS coach was awful....but his son didn't show that attitude at all. Did whatever he was asked to do.
Dominic, thanks for your thoughts on that. Pretty much what the coach says.
smokeminside posted:Coach B 25—how do you handle kids who have outside instructors whose ideas differ from yours, especially swing mechanics? Ongoing issue between some of our parents and the head coach. Thx.
I've been on the record for a very long time saying that if it isn't broken, I won't try to fix it. The drills we do should reinforce what I consider to be a high level swing. Therefore, regardless of what some instructor teaches in the swing, the player should benefit from the drills we do in practice. Pitching is the same way. However, when that player experiences failure and refuses to make the changes that I see that they need, I'll play another. One example recently, there was a "stud player" according to the parents who started out 0-28 and was not hip to change. Great. We had another who took over and didn't lose that starting spot. Simply put, the best play and so, whatever you have your child do and listen to, you need to make sure that you are actually getting what you are paying for. I've coached HS for 33 years and been a part of some state championship teams and some nationally ranked teams. I was chosen, back in the day, to introduce baseball into the former Soviet Union. I know what I am doing. I have never hidden my opinion that any parent who doesn't like what the HS coach does, remove your child. That was my opinion my first year and that is my opinion this year. JMHO!
2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
... and that is what is great about our various coaching styles. You get to run your program as you want and the same with me. Personally, I know how to win. I know what it takes per fundamentals, drill work, ... I am not someone who will let the players dictate to me what they will do in order for me to have the pleasure of having them on the team. I won't allow the parents to tell me what we are going to do as well. I can't imagine a successful system where 18 players with 18 agendas with 36 parents or more tell the coach what to do in practice.
BTW, of course pitchers have different pitches and way to throw. However, I have a system that the pitchers will work within. They won't be telling me that they don't believe in the band work or plyo ball work or ... Each to their own I guess. Again, it is really easy for me to help the OP. Remove your child if you don't like what the coach is doing. As a parent, you'll save your child from the idiot coach and as a coach, I won't be asked to compromise on what I believe to be the best program I can possible run.
I think that's sad. I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches. And also know how to win. But it's not YOUR program. It's the school's. It's the kids. They were there before you and will be there after you. I sincerely suggest some perspective.
I absolutely disagree. It is my program. I am the one who will be fired if we fail. The school has turned that program over to me to see as I feel fit. I don't go through anyone for what I do in games, how I run practice nor how I spend my money. In the event that I don't produce, I expect to be fired. I don't coach a team. IMO, that is the problem with a lot of schools and HC. They want to coach a team when they should be building a program. Every assistant coach that I have had have been hand chosen. The district saw fit to hire them. That is how you take an also-ran team and turn it into a highly respected area power.
I should end with the above paragraph but I'll add must a little more. Why would you expect me to concede my experience and success and turn my program over to the whims of others? That expert most likely hasn't had half of the experience I have. That expert most likely was in diapers long after I started. From the days of the hitting wars to now, I have been involved in and kept up with all of the changes wrt hitting. I keep up on all of the latest things wrt pitching. I'm not stagnant. Finally, it is my name on that program. I won't concede my responsibilities and turn into a supervisor.
Edited to add:
Regarding the "hard ass" comment, I run a tight ship but am not a "hard ass" per your impressions. In fact, I have won the "post popular teacher" award for so many years in a row that the school no longer gives out the award. I've had dozens of kids go on to play professionally. I've had dozens more go on to great baseball schools. We've won a bunch of games. If it didn't work, maybe I'd take a different stance.
No need to quote previous posts in your reply..the last one took an enormous amount of bandwidth and makes viewing nearly impossible on a phone for others...thank you.
CatcherDadNY posted:No need to quote previous posts in your reply..the last one took an enormous amount of bandwidth and makes viewing nearly impossible on a phone for others...thank you.
In my experience, it is important to keep things in context. Thus the quotes. I don't use a smart phone. I'll do better. Well, not really, I don't post much anymore because I've seem to have become controversial. It works better if I just assist once in a while as a moderator and read. Back in the days when Bob Howdeshell created this site and I joined a couple of years after, there were a lot more coaches like me. LOL
CoachB25 posted:In my experience, it is important to keep things in context. Thus the quotes. I don't use a smart phone. I'll do better. Well, not really, I don't post much anymore because I've seem to have become controversial. It works better if I just assist once in a while as a moderator and read.
Quoting is good, just don't do a super multi quote with 7 posts and quote only the last 1-2.
I wonder how many posters here know who Bob Howdeshell is.
RJM posted:I wonder how many posters here know who Bob Howdeshell is.
Chief cook and bottle washer! LOL
CoachB25, that just put a smile on my face! 😊
MN-Mom posted:CoachB25, that just put a smile on my face! 😊
Wow! What a handle! Thank you for the gift of HSBBW!
CoachB25 posted:RJM posted:I wonder how many posters here know who Bob Howdeshell is.
Chief cook and bottle washer! LOL
Mr MN-MOM
I’m going to throw my hat into the ring and ask a question, since I overtstepped my bounds last year by texting the coach questioning why my son doesn’t get to play. Granted, this was middle school baseball. Obviously, it was not recieved well, and I apologized profusely for it. In fact, I regretted it iinstantly but texts are permanent. Fast forward to this year, my son is trying out for JV, and is vying for a roster spot of 16, with 21 trying out. My son’s middle school coach was promoted to JV now (my luck). So my question is: what are my son’s chances of getting a fair and unbiased shot at making the team? If he makes it , great, if not, we will get over it. I just don’t want it to be based on something stupid that I did.
KTCOTB posted:I’m going to throw my hat into the ring and ask a question, since I overtstepped my bounds last year by texting the coach questioning why my son doesn’t get to play. Granted, this was middle school baseball. Obviously, it was not recieved well, and I apologized profusely for it. In fact, I regretted it iinstantly but texts are permanent. Fast forward to this year, my son is trying out for JV, and is vying for a roster spot of 16, with 21 trying out. My son’s middle school coach was promoted to JV now (my luck). So my question is: what are my son’s chances of getting a fair and unbiased shot at making the team? If he makes it , great, if not, we will get over it. I just don’t want it to be based on something stupid that I did.
You are screwed
KTCOTB posted:I’m going to throw my hat into the ring and ask a question, since I overtstepped my bounds last year by texting the coach questioning why my son doesn’t get to play. Granted, this was middle school baseball. Obviously, it was not recieved well, and I apologized profusely for it. In fact, I regretted it iinstantly but texts are permanent. Fast forward to this year, my son is trying out for JV, and is vying for a roster spot of 16, with 21 trying out. My son’s middle school coach was promoted to JV now (my luck). So my question is: what are my son’s chances of getting a fair and unbiased shot at making the team? If he makes it , great, if not, we will get over it. I just don’t want it to be based on something stupid that I did.
Chances are the word was passed about “the dad.” Unless your son is going to be a legitimate contributor and a future varsity prospect he might want to try lacrosse or track.
When my son played 7th grade baseball there seventeen players. There were three moms from hell of bench players. The 8th grade coach went with a roster of fourteen.
Theres a performance/pain in the arse quotient that exists from school sports all the way through a business career. The more a person contributes the more crap is tolerable. Taking crap with no return on investment isn’t worth the stress.
I'll be the wishy-washy contrarian here. Your son might be okay. Did playing time change after your text? How did the coach handle your apology? How has your son improved in the past year?
Our coach is remarkably patient with players' parents but that's his personality and he suffers a LOT of second-guessing in the stands and even to his face, especially about game strategy. My son had an exceedingly difficult situation occur last year that was not his fault, and only tangentially affected playing time. He almost quit the team. His mom and I vented with each other, privately, but never talked to the coach about it unless he brought it up, which he did repeatedly as the situation evolved. We respectfully answered his emails but kept deflecting him back to talking with my son. The ice slowly thawed between them, kind of like a river after an Alaska winter, and he ended up having a great year.
I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
More to the point: You might be screwed, but maybe not.
As I said, it was a mistake, and I regretted it immediately. After I apologized multiple times (sincerely), I met with the coach to discuss my son. I know he should have asked the coach himself, but he is very shy and doesn’t talk about his frustrations. The coach seemed to take the apology well, and he told me he needs to work on his confidence. I don’t think he is a spiteful person- seems very easy going and nice. My son worked hard in the off season, bulked up, and has refined his swing, as well as his defensive skills. I promised the coach I would disappear: he wouldn’t hear or see me anymore. This was before I found out he was the JV coach. If he cuts my kid because he doesn’t think he is JV material, I will not dispute it or question it, but I want his assessment to be based on HIS ability, and not what I did.
I was thinking similar to Smoke... how did the "apologized profusely" go? And, probably more important, how much did your son improve since not getting much PT in middle school?
BTW, welcome to the site. And thanks for posting. Your story can help others.
Related story... I stepped down has HC of a HS program this past summer. I get occasional calls/texts from parents regarding the new staff. I try to either stay out of it or show support where I can. Last night, got a text from a disgruntled dad. I tried to defuse. He then told me he already wrote a letter to the principal. Went past the coach, past the AD. Ugghhh. Said he was "voted" by other parents to do so. Told him to get the h$!! away from those parents and never do that again.
His kid is probably screwed.
PS - looks like we were typing same time. Sounds like you did all you could and it is likely up to your son to earn it. Best to him!
To your point HSBAseballweb, I agree with what you said. This however was an isolated incident, I wasn’t that pain in the arse that constantly complained. I hope the JV and Varsity coach will see him as an asset/prospect, otherwise I don’t want him to be in the team and ride the bench the entire year. There is nothing worse than riding the bench (especially in the cold). I did that part of my Freshman year in college, and hated life.
Thanks Cabbage. I sent the email only to the coach, and did not discuss with parents, so it’s likely that he is the only one aware of it. At the very least, I hope it helps a parent on these forums. Wish i knew about this site last year- you guys could have talked be off the ledge. I just hope my son’s fate is in his hands and has not already been determined. That’s all I’m hoping for.
There's a WHOLE lot of talking off the ledge around here.
smokeminside posted:I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
Wow, that's crazy....how many of those parents even have any idea what they are looking at
Buckeye 2015 posted:smokeminside posted:I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
Wow, that's crazy....how many of those parents even have any idea what they are looking at
Sounds like you have a bunch of parents that smokemoutside !
Buckeye 2015 posted:smokeminside posted:I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
Wow, that's crazy....how many of those parents even have any idea what they are looking at
Though I have never done that I would imagine they know exactly what to look for. It's not rocket science.
2020dad posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:smokeminside posted:I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
Wow, that's crazy....how many of those parents even have any idea what they are looking at
Though I have never done that I would imagine they know exactly what to look for. It's not rocket science.
Well, in my experience, that group and the ones that show up to watch the whole practice every day often have a heavier tint to their rose colored glasses and they also have tunnel vision. It may not be rocket science but in their world, the earth is flat.
They are analyzing from the perspective of "what can I find that rationalizes my kid should be ahead of the others" instead of "how do each of these players measure up in total with one another".
For those I have offended, there are exceptions 
"...30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands." That's flat out wacky.
KTCOTB posted:To your point HSBAseballweb, I agree with what you said. This however was an isolated incident, I wasn’t that pain in the arse that constantly complained. I hope the JV and Varsity coach will see him as an asset/prospect, otherwise I don’t want him to be in the team and ride the bench the entire year. There is nothing worse than riding the bench (especially in the cold). I did that part of my Freshman year in college, and hated life.
Most of what you've said sounds good, but I'm not a big fan of lessening the value that can come from riding some pine. You can learn a lot about a kid from bench time, and he can learn as well:
- How bad does he want it?
- What kind of teammate is he?
- Could learn from watching/listening to his coaches/teammates?
Spending some time on the pine is not a total waste. There are life lessons that can be learned about rooting for your teammates success, finding out what you are made of, self evaluation of your true skills, etc.
Agreed. Problem is as I have posted previously, he had very limited playing time in middle school ball. In football, he rode the bench as an 10-11 year old. While he is a starter on the JV football team now, one can only take so much of riding the bench. It builds character and resilience, but it also wears you down over time, and you question why you are doing this to begin with.
KTCOTB posted:Agreed. Problem is as I have posted previously, he had very limited playing time in middle school ball. In football, he rode the bench as an 10-11 year old. While he is a starter on the JV football team now, one can only take so much of riding the bench. It builds character and resilience, but it also wears you down over time, and you question why you are doing this to begin with.
I actually do feel for you. Every time we have a cold football game I think about all those parents who show up all the time to watch and support the team even though their kid doesn't play. Not sure I would be good at that. It's really tough to say when to find other activities. I always told my players (and it's true) that 20 years from now when they sit with their old high school buddies nobody's gonna be talking about how they were the star of the team or whatever. It's always about funny stories or stuff that happened on the bus or when the coach had a meltdown etc. shared memories. I think there is value in being part of a team but times are changing. You have some tough decisions facing you. Good luck.
Thanks. It is hard to stay positive. You can’t help but build up resentment over time. That’s how and why that email was sent out to the coach. It was during a game where there were like 10 kids there. The coach was not there and gave instructions to the acting coach on where and when to play kids. My son still didn’t get to play. My view has always been that middle school, and the beginning of JV is the time to give everyone a chance, so you get a real picture of what talent you have. Everyone knows that during those years especially, kids are still developing physically as far as size, skill and emotional development. The kid from 7th grade may be totally different a few years from then. This coach never really gave my son a chance to prove himself in practice and especially not in games. At this point it is too late to change sports nor would he want to. He is better at football, and is a starter so that will not change. As far as baseball, if he gets cut he is still good enough to play summer ball. He plays up on a 15u team ( which is similar level to school ball).
Kid riding pine, not making the higher team, etc is very frustrating. Unfortunately, it rarely ends well if the parents intervene. As much as they're not ready, especially if in middle school, our job is to coach our kids address it themselves. One day, our intervention will be an absolute non-option, so let them get the practice now.
My son is a HS senior, who still doesn't like to solicit advice/tips, which frustrates me to no end. At the end of the day, he's the one most impacted, so it's on him.
I agree. I learned my lesson fast last year. He needs to fight his own battles, fall and pick himself up.
Mentally active bench players contribute at every level. There is no excuse to come off the bench and not know the plays, signs, inning, out, situation, and etc. Stay in the game mentally every pitch/play. Steal reps even if only mentally. Know what's going on and be ready to contribute when called. So many times I've watched players names get called that are NOT prepared to perform. Pretty much sealing the deal to stay regulated to the bench. Nope it's not easy BUT that will get you on the field!
real green posted:Mentally active bench players contribute at every level. There is no excuse to come off the bench and not know the plays, signs, inning, out, situation, and etc. Stay in the game mentally every pitch/play. Steal reps even if only mentally. Know what's going on and be ready to contribute when called. So many times I've watched players names get called that are NOT prepared to perform. Pretty much sealing the deal to stay regulated to the bench. Nope it's not easy BUT that will get you on the field!
Watch for missed bases.
KTCOTB, every coach knows that once in a while an email is going to come. I never liked them. However, I never held that against the player. Those are two different things. Most likely, the coach knows that the player, if the player knew, didn't want that email sent. Your son was in middle school. So what? He has gone through puberty and is still developing. Have you noticed that the starting center on most middle school basketball teams are not the starting centers in high school? Puberty happens. Your son will be just fine if he put forth the time. If not, he already knows it. He'll either make or break it on his own. Finally, I was cut my freshman and sophomore years. I was a "stud" and "star" my junior and senior years. Believe me, I'm not alone.
Thanks coachb25.
KTCOTB posted:I agree. I learned my lesson fast last year. He needs to fight his own battles, fall and pick himself up.
It can get tough with lack of playing time or getting cut. But if it happens, a quick non confrontational conversation with the coach can help move things in the right direction. Pull him aside before practice one day and just politely ask what you need to work on to get back in the lineup or things he needs to improve for next year. You will always almost get an honest answer and more importantly it is an unbiased opinion on why you're not where you want to be. I think your kid will be fine in terms of the relationship, just be friendly if you see him and avoid apologizing/bringing it up again.
2020dad posted:Ok, when did coaches grow so soft? When are we going to wake up and take the testosterone crisis seriously and realize all this is part of the pussification of America. Never ever ever in my coaching career did me or ANYONE I coached with bring up a kids dad when discussing who should play and where they should play. Are you kidding me???! You put the best 9 on the field. If the coach is so soft he has to 'get even' with the dad by sabotaging a teenager... not much of a man. So if there is really a coach out there who has ever actually done this I would love to hear them admit it and defend it. We may discover this to be mostly myth.
Not sure if this applies but my son's youth travel coach definitely did. In his first 2 years of coaching the travel team, he experienced first hand the disruption to the team that crazy parents (and grandparents) would cause. It inevitably affects the on field performance. After the first 2 years, he screens the parents as much as the kids. He has turned away studs bec the parents are known to bring drama with them. This is one reason we stayed with the coach (the reassurance that he is doing his best to avoid disruptive parents).
However, that is youth travel though and not HS ball. I would think that off field disruptions and drama caused by parents can still affect on field performance in HS, but maybe not as much as youth travel where parents have more influence.
You know what I would love to hear sometime is what these 'crazy' parents do? Cause my son has played travel ball, high school ball, AAU basketball, high school basketball and high school football and I have yet to encounter this mostly fictional 'crazy' parent. Sometimes I think it's just 'the other parent'. You know the one who dares to act not like ourself? I think we all set a standard in our head and then that's it. Anything outside our own standard and we label a person crazy. And what about the guy who sits silent 99% of the time but loses it a couple times a Season out of frustration? Is he a crazy dad (by the way the craziest thing I ever saw was a mom). Or does the almighty coach on high just get to label people at their whim? Who gets to determine this? I sometimes yell 'run the ball' at our football games. In three years of football I have never once called or e mailed or sat down with the coaches for complant purposes. And rarely even speak to them other than hello. But I will bet anything some would qualify that as a 'crazy' dad. In all seriousness - just how soft are you people??
By the way as a coach I was made aware of parents yelling stuff from the stands occasionally. After the game. Why after the game? I can honestly say my focus on the game was so intense I never hear anything from the stands. That's the truth. Now I did while coaching baseball have a dad meet me at home plate IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME cause I pinch hit for his kid. That's pretty crazy. But so what? I mean really who cares? Was the entire team destroyed cause of that? Did I melt and cry? Why do some of you people care so much how others comport themselves. How bout this - just do YPUR job. Be it as a parent or a coach. Conduct yourself as you see fit and don't worry about what Mr Smith is doing over there. If he wants to carry a clipboard and wear a stopwatch around his neck and a stalker in his other hand why do you care so much? My weakness I must confess is delusional parents. I let them get under my skin. But whose fault is that really? Mine for sure. I need to let it go. I get viewed as a negative cause I will be blunt about Johnnies capabilities. That's my cross to bear and I really need to get better at letting it go. We all need to get better at letting some things go.
2020, it's sort of like what George Carlin said about other drivers: "anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac"
W2020dad posted:You know what I would love to hear sometime is what these 'crazy' parents do? Cause my son has played travel ball, high school ball, AAU basketball, high school basketball and high school football and I have yet to encounter this mostly fictional 'crazy' parent. Sometimes I think it's just 'the other parent'. You know the one who dares to act not like ourself? I think we all set a standard in our head and then that's it. Anything outside our own standard and we label a person crazy. And what about the guy who sits silent 99% of the time but loses it a couple times a Season out of frustration? Is he a crazy dad (by the way the craziest thing I ever saw was a mom). Or does the almighty coach on high just get to label people at their whim? Who gets to determine this? I sometimes yell 'run the ball' at our football games. In three years of football I have never once called or e mailed or sat down with the coaches for complant purposes. And rarely even speak to them other than hello. But I will bet anything some would qualify that as a 'crazy' dad. In all seriousness - just how soft are you people??
By the way as a coach I was made aware of parents yelling stuff from the stands occasionally. After the game. Why after the game? I can honestly say my focus on the game was so intense I never hear anything from the stands. That's the truth. Now I did while coaching baseball have a dad meet me at home plate IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME cause I pinch hit for his kid. That's pretty crazy. But so what? I mean really who cares? Was the entire team destroyed cause of that? Did I melt and cry? Why do some of you people care so much how others comport themselves. How bout this - just do YPUR job. Be it as a parent or a coach. Conduct yourself as you see fit and don't worry about what Mr Smith is doing over there. If he wants to carry a clipboard and wear a stopwatch around his neck and a stalker in his other hand why do you care so much? My weakness I must confess is delusional parents. I let them get under my skin. But whose fault is that really? Mine for sure. I need to let it go. I get viewed as a negative cause I will be blunt about Johnnies capabilities. That's my cross to bear and I really need to get better at letting it go. We all need to get better at letting some things go.
- Mother comes into the dugout in the middle of the game screaming at me for never playing her son in center or short. After all, he played these positions in LL. He wasn’t fast or quick enough to play these positions on a full size field.
- Father comes into the dugout and gets in my face for benching his kid. I had previously warned the kid after the first offense the next time he didn’t run out a pop up he would be benched. When I benched the kid he told me to my face it was f’n bull shoot. I told the kid to take a walk outside the field to the flag pole. I told him by the time he got back to the dugout either decide he wants to follow team rules or keep going, grab his father and leave.
- Mother brings a full dinner for her kid into the dugout.
- This was a kid I learned a lesson. I shouldn’t have put him on the team in the first place. It was a political decision. By the time the season was over the parents and I weren’t talking. We weren’t friends anymore either. The dad took it out in my son in basketball.
I played the kid in left. He hit .170. But of course he was a LL all star shortstop when his dad coached. When we ran a defensive first and third drill an entire practice he was the one kid who couldn’t throw out the runner from second to home. The dad was there watching the entire practice. A week later the mother corners me and asks why her son doesn’t play infield. I referenced the drill. The next game the father is up in my face warning me never insult the their kid to the mother again.
- In 14u travel softball I had a player who thought signs and rules didn’t apply to her. She was very talented. She was also very difficult to coach. She was kicked off every team the next three years. One time she was on the phone in the dugout in the middle of the game. I was at “had enough.” I yelled loud enough for everyone to hear, “Next at bat take your phone to the plate and call me for signals. Right now you better be ordering pizza for the entire park or get off the phone NOW!” No, her mother wasn’t pleased with my reaction. She pulled her out of the dugout and off the team.
How many do you want? These were all 13u and 14u when some parents have trouble accepting their kid isn’t a ball player or has a bad attitude he’s now willing to share. I just glazed over and assumed the dazed deer position until the parent was done. Then I told them to get out of the dugout and never consider coming in again. The great thing about travel ball is it’s easy to replace problems the following year. I could go on and on going back to to preteen sports and I’ve coached sixty plus teams. But in the scope of things it was a minimal and I’d do it (coach) again.
The stuff I witnessed and heard about at high school games was the typical coach doesn’t know what he’s doing, can’t judge talent, screwing my kid, going behind the coach’s back to the AD stuff.
I can’t imagine what it’s like for weak teams. Between my two kids varsity baseball and softball won the conference six of seven years and a second place the seventh and parents bitched.
My two favorite high school stories I witnessed was the parent who threatened to sue if her son was benched for going on vacation for a week in the middle of the season and the dad who claimed his son was screwed after getting benched for going 0-8 with five strikeouts, three errors and misplaying two gappers to the fence in three games.
I wasn’t aware of how stupid coaches are and how many parents who coached LL could do better until I wasn’t in the dugout for high school games.
When my son made varsity the coach was in his third year. The two previous years the team had losing records. But he was turning around bad play, bad attitudes and bad parents. The previous coach was owned and manipulated by the parents. Go figure under his reign the high school had seventeen losing seasons in twenty years. Once the new coach turned it around the program won five conference titles in eight years before he couldn’t take it anymore and quit.
Being a coach is a job that I don’t envy- never had the courage to do it myself in spite of my college and semi pro experience. I’m sure they are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. It’s easy to second guess when you are a spectator. I have resigned myself to the fact that what is meant to be will happen, and I don’t have control over it. Unless someone puts a hand in my kid, I will not get involved, regardless of whether or not politics, favoritism, or bias have anything to do with how decisions are made. Let’s face it, I think it is less than 4% of kids will make it to the next level (Divison 1, MLB). If your kid is on his way there, god bless. For the rest of us, we will just have to sit back and enjoy the ride for how ever long that is. That depends on our kid’s ability and willingness to continue to play. When that goes, all we have are the memories, and the videos. I want my son to be able to reflect on that time fondly. We don’t need the drama, and if it means no HS ball, so be it.
In my experience the delusional parents are just unaware of how competitive things get along the way. They haven't experienced it themselves or with an older kid. Most were either gone, or better educated by 14U. The real problem are the few parents who are familiar with the process and should know better, but still overrate Johnny.
2020DAD, here're just example of what I have experienced first hand.
- 7u all star season. Team wasn't doing well. Coach organized a fun kickball game with the 7u B team during one of our practice to get the kids to relax. Half of parents in the team wasn't happy. A couple of dad started cursing loudly in the bleachers. One of them even slammed/punched the bulletin board in the quad and broke the glass on the board. Another mom (whose son isn't a starter on the team) goes to the coach during the middle of the kickball game and told him in a loud voice for all the parents to hear: "clearly, my son needs more practice as he is not getting enough playing time so not sure why we are playing kickball".
- 8u all star season. Family who's been a close friend of the coach is not happy. The families are in the same neighborhood, played rec ball together since 4u Tball, kids hang out at each other's house, and mom has been team mom since 6u all star season. Their kid was struggling that year and went to bottom of lineup (but no loss of playing time). Parents and grandparents started grumbling a lot in the bleachers during games, loud enough for most people to hear. They second guess everything, and question decisions that the coach does. Several other families who are at the bottom of the lineup got influenced by them. The parents broke up in 2 groups in the bleacher towards the end (the rest of the parents just don't want to hear the negativity). Halfway through the season, the family ceased all relationship with the coach's family. Their son is not allowed to hang out with the coach's son anymore (they were best friends before this). They purposely avoid them when they see each other in the neighborhood pool. They started bad mouthing the coach at school. While there was an impact on the team, the biggest impact is with the coach's family's personal lives.
- 9u travel season. This happened to another team we are familiar with. One of the dad on that team was a rec ball all star coach from 6u to 8u. Cops had to be called at 7u and 8u in our games against them bec of how he was harassing the umpires. Coach was banned from the district and state tournaments. The stud kid tried out for our travel team at 9u. Knowing the parent's personality and history, coach didn't take the kid. Kid went to another team. Fast forward several months later, the team and our team is in the same end of season out of town tournament. During their game against another team (we were watching the game), parents in the same team started a brawl against each other and cops have to be called. Apparently, the antics of that family caused the parents to splinter in 2 factions during the season and animosity developed between the 2 factions. As an example, one of things the dad did was have spirit shirts printed just for their faction. Half of the families in that team left right after the brawl. The coach has to beg one of the family to drive back so that they can have enough kids to continue playing in the tournament.
Above are just some examples. I have a bunch more (some I personally experienced, some I heard first hand from other parents). One of them is a friend of mine outside of baseball whose child plays in a lower age group. Apparently, my friend becomes crazy during games and would barge into the dugout in the middle of games to curse out the coach and demanding why her son isn't playing more.
RJM posted:W2020dad posted:You know what I would love to hear sometime is what these 'crazy' parents do? Cause my son has played travel ball, high school ball, AAU basketball, high school basketball and high school football and I have yet to encounter this mostly fictional 'crazy' parent. Sometimes I think it's just 'the other parent'. You know the one who dares to act not like ourself? I think we all set a standard in our head and then that's it. Anything outside our own standard and we label a person crazy. And what about the guy who sits silent 99% of the time but loses it a couple times a Season out of frustration? Is he a crazy dad (by the way the craziest thing I ever saw was a mom). Or does the almighty coach on high just get to label people at their whim? Who gets to determine this? I sometimes yell 'run the ball' at our football games. In three years of football I have never once called or e mailed or sat down with the coaches for complant purposes. And rarely even speak to them other than hello. But I will bet anything some would qualify that as a 'crazy' dad. In all seriousness - just how soft are you people??
By the way as a coach I was made aware of parents yelling stuff from the stands occasionally. After the game. Why after the game? I can honestly say my focus on the game was so intense I never hear anything from the stands. That's the truth. Now I did while coaching baseball have a dad meet me at home plate IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME cause I pinch hit for his kid. That's pretty crazy. But so what? I mean really who cares? Was the entire team destroyed cause of that? Did I melt and cry? Why do some of you people care so much how others comport themselves. How bout this - just do YPUR job. Be it as a parent or a coach. Conduct yourself as you see fit and don't worry about what Mr Smith is doing over there. If he wants to carry a clipboard and wear a stopwatch around his neck and a stalker in his other hand why do you care so much? My weakness I must confess is delusional parents. I let them get under my skin. But whose fault is that really? Mine for sure. I need to let it go. I get viewed as a negative cause I will be blunt about Johnnies capabilities. That's my cross to bear and I really need to get better at letting it go. We all need to get better at letting some things go.
- Mother comes into the dugout in the middle of the game screaming at me for never playing her son in center or short. After all, he played these positions in LL. He want fast or quick enough to play these positions on a full size field.
- Father comes into the dugout and gets in my face for benching his kid. I had previously warned the kid after the first offense the next time he did t run out a pop up he would be benched. When I benched the kid he told me to my face it was f’n bull shoot. I told the kid to take a walk outside the field to the flag pole. I told him by the time he got back to the dugout either decide he wants to follow team rules or keep going, grab his father and leave.
- Mother brings a full dinner for her kid into the dugout.
- This was a kid I learned a lesson. I shouldn’t have put him on the team in the first place. It was a political decision. By the time the season was over the parents and I weren’t talking. We weren’t friends anymore either. The dad took it out in my son in basketball.
I played the kid in left. He hit .170. But of course he was a LL all star shortstop when his dad coached. When we ran a defensive first and third drill an entire practice he was the one kid who couldn’t throw out the runner from second to home. The dad was there watching the entire practice. A week later the mother corners me and asks why her son doesn’t play infield. I referenced the drill. The next game the father is up in my face warning me. Ever insult the their kid to the mother again.
How many do you want? These were all 13u and 14u when some parents have trouble accepting their kid isn’t a ball player or has a bad attitude he’s now willing to share. I just glazed over and assumed the dazed deer position until the parent was done. Then I told them to get out of the dugout and never consider coming in again.
The stuff I witnessed and heard about at high school games was the typical coach doesn’t know what he’s doing, can’t judge talent, screwing my kid, going behind the coach’s back to the AD stuff.
I can’t imagine what it’s like for weak teams. Between my two kids varsity baseball and softball won the conference six of seven years and a second place the seventh and parents bitched.
My two favorite high school stories I witnessed was the parent who threatened to sue if her son was benched for going on vacation for a week in the middle of the season and the dad who claimed his son was screwed aftes getting benched for going 0-8 with five strikeouts, three errors and misplaying two gappers to the fence in three games.
I wasn’t aware of how stupid coaches are and how many parents who coached LL could do better until I wasn’t in the dugout for high school games.
When my son made varsity the coach was in his third year. The two previous years the team had losing records. But he was turning around bad play, bad attitudes and bad parents. The previous coach was owned and manipulated by the parents. Go figure under his reign the high school had seventeen losing seasons in twenty years. Once the new coach turned it around the program won five conference titles in eight years before he couldn’t take it anymore and quit.
Over how many years? And are people allowed to make mistakes and be forgiven? And the lady with the full dinner... if she brought me one too and it was good I would play that kid every day!!
I rarely saw parents with the chutzpah to act crazy or challenge the coach in front of everyone else. Instead, I would hear later, usually after the season had ended, about parents who had emailed the coach berating him (or other players) or challenging his game-day decisions, and marvel at what the coach had endured unbeknownst to the rest of us. Kudos to those coaches for handling these crazy-parent interactions with discretion and professionalism.
That said, I also have a couple of crazy coach stories, but I'd rather not spill them here.
There are way more crazy coach stories than crazy parent stories for sure. I was a horrible coach when I was young. I won. I won at places others could not. But I was a lunatic. A screamer. I berated kids. I didn't see it as berating at the time. And I was a popular teacher. And totally different in baseball than I was in basketball. I was always an assistant in baseball because basketball was my main sport. Kids really liked me in baseball. In basketball I may not have been hated but I maybe should have been. I am ashamed looking back at some of my language I used with these kids. Locker room meltdowns. My teams won. But I was so bound and determined to be the next great D1 basketball coach... it was all about me. I finally had an epic meltdown - no need for details - and I went to the principal and AD and accepted the girls head coach spot. It got me away from all the guys I knew in the coaching circle. The guys I had rivalries with. In those days it was the kiss of death to coach girls. Being a men's D1 basketball coach was now an impossibility. I relaxed took a breath and just decided to coach some basketball. Took a program that hadn't won in twenty years and brought it to be ranked in the top 25 in the Chicago sun times and tribune. I was still intense for sure. Gave those girls all of my effort. Hours upon hours of scouting, crafting game plans, watching film Etc. still occasionally yelled in the locker room - but in a much different way. I had grown up. I had to. I couldn't burn that hot for much longer without destroying myself. I have been around a lot more ignorant, foul mouthed, egotistical, narcissistic, hard ass coaches than all of us put together have seen the same in parents. Truth is the coaching profession breeds these attitudes. It is changing for sure but unfortunately now we get decent people with no passion or knowledge for the game!! Maybe someday we will get it right.
I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
2020dad posted:I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
It's the coach's job to win games...at least it used to be....now it seems like more and more it's a HS coach's job to keep everyone happy....players, parents, administrators, etc. When I played in the early 80's our junior high football coach would put pads on and run over us in practice...the guy was nuts....but we just thought "hey, he's just making us better". Not one person ever complained. I ran into him a couple years ago and mentioned it while his wife was standing next to him. She obviously had never heard the story. We all got a good laugh out of it and he said "can you imagine if a coach did that today?". 6-7 years ago, a group of HS girls basketball parents essentially got a very good coach ran out of the program because they complained that "she yelled too much". Keep in mind, some of these parents were friends of mine and their daughters were friends with my kids. These parents were complaining about the HS coach when their daughters were in 6th grade....and just kept ramping up the pressure to the point that the coach was let go. My daughter played for that coach a couple years earlier. My daughter at the time was one of the quietest girls you'd ever meet. I flat out asked her...."Does Coach #### yell too much". She said "dad, no, she yells...but it's just how she is...it's not like she's really being mean". I lost a lost of respect for those friends...and also the administration at my kids' school when they let the parents get away with running the program.
2020dad posted:I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
... and you also said...
"There are way more crazy coach stories than crazy parent stories for sure."
Well, having had several of my own kids (and close friends kids) having gone through multiple sports, having been involved with coordinating many large format national youth/teen tournament events (direct exposure to thousands of parents and coaches) and having been in the coaching circles for dozens of years, that has definitely not been my experience. Sure, there have been those coaches but there have been exponentially more crazy parent stories than crazy coach stories.
Look, the coach is in charge of the baseball program and the parent is in charge of the household. A coach can't allow a parent to come into his program and start dictating the way things should be just as a parent wouldn't allow a coach to come into his household and start dictating the way things should be. No one is sending a parent off to Siberia any more than a coach is held accountable for reasonable methods to his coaching. Each needs to know his place and his responsibility.
You mentioned a previous scenario where you had a parent come to home plate in the middle of a game because you pinch hit for his kid. This was right after you suggested that the notion of a crazy parent is fictional. That is a crazy parent. Not his place. No reason or excuse can make that remotely sane or OK. If a coach just "lets it go" with things like that (as you seem to suggest), he will quickly lose control of his household and ultimately, that becomes a crappy environment for the kids, which is the primary concern here. And, yes, a coach has to have enough confidence and enough structure to his environment that 40 or however many players (and their parents) will follow enough to be part of something positive and productive instead of a dramatic $hit show. That's what they are hired to do.
Buckeye 2015 posted:2020dad posted:I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
It's the coach's job to win games...at least it used to be....now it seems like more and more it's a HS coach's job to keep everyone happy....players, parents, administrators, etc. When I played in the early 80's our junior high football coach would put pads on and run over us in practice...the guy was nuts....but we just thought "hey, he's just making us better". Not one person ever complained. I ran into him a couple years ago and mentioned it while his wife was standing next to him. She obviously had never heard the story. We all got a good laugh out of it and he said "can you imagine if a coach did that today?". 6-7 years ago, a group of HS girls basketball parents essentially got a very good coach ran out of the program because they complained that "she yelled too much". Keep in mind, some of these parents were friends of mine and their daughters were friends with my kids. These parents were complaining about the HS coach when their daughters were in 6th grade....and just kept ramping up the pressure to the point that the coach was let go. My daughter played for that coach a couple years earlier. My daughter at the time was one of the quietest girls you'd ever meet. I flat out asked her...."Does Coach #### yell too much". She said "dad, no, she yells...but it's just how she is...it's not like she's really being mean". I lost a lost of respect for those friends...and also the administration at my kids' school when they let the parents get away with running the program.
Well then... 'that parent' yells but it's just how he/she is... what's the difference?
Over nineteen consecutive years I coached sixty plus kiddie ball to 18u travel teams in baseball, softball and basketball. I spent thirteen years on the baseball/softball board, eighteen on the basketball board and six on the overall community youth sports board. I was commissioner of fourteen leagues. If it didn’t happen to me, it happened to a fellow coach or it came to board meetings via parents or coaches or league commissioners
The ugliest was when I didn’t allow a seven year old to play 8/9’ basketball who had somehow been sneaked illegally on to an 8/9 rec team as a six year old the previous year. Apparently, I was setting back a kid who was a future NBA star. His NBA dreams went down the drain when he didn’t make the freshman team.
The dad hacked the youth sports registration system. He sent out a blast email to thousands of people about the details of my divorce. Of course, none of what he emailed was true. Had it been I would have gone to jail.
A board member who was also legal counsel for our youth sports organization told the person he was going to be allowed supervised access to send a blast public apology along with why he did it. Otherwise, he (the lawyer) would offer his legal services free of charge to me.
Ironically, the kid became a D1 baseball player. The dad and I became good friends through LL about five years after the incident. Along the baseball journey we laughed about this incident.
cabbagedad posted:2020dad posted:I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
... and you also said...
"There are way more crazy coach stories than crazy parent stories for sure."
Well, having had several of my own kids (and close friends kids) having gone through multiple sports, having been involved with coordinating many large format national youth/teen tournament events (direct exposure to thousands of parents and coaches) and having been in the coaching circles for dozens of years, that has definitely not been my experience. Sure, there have been those coaches but there have been exponentially more crazy parent stories than crazy coach stories.
Look, the coach is in charge of the baseball program and the parent is in charge of the household. A coach can't allow a parent to come into his program and start dictating the way things should be just as a parent wouldn't allow a coach to come into his household and start dictating the way things should be. No one is sending a parent off to Siberia any more than a coach is held accountable for reasonable methods to his coaching. Each needs to know his place and his responsibility.
You mentioned a previous scenario where you had a parent come to home plate in the middle of a game because you pinch hit for his kid. This was right after you suggested that the notion of a crazy parent is fictional. That is a crazy parent. Not his place. No reason or excuse can make that remotely sane or OK. If a coach just "lets it go" with things like that (as you seem to suggest), he will quickly lose control of his household and ultimately, that becomes a crappy environment for the kids, which is the primary concern here. And, yes, a coach has to have enough confidence and enough structure to his environment that 40 or however many players (and their parents) will follow enough to be part of something positive and productive instead of a dramatic $hit show. That's what they are hired to do.
I think it's all about perception. If the coach cusses out all the kids and we say he is just doing his job... well then of course there will be exponentially more 'crazy' parents. But I think if we hold coaches and parents to the exact same standards it would flip flop.
Look I have been on all sides of this issue. I have for sure said/done things I regret as a coach AND a parent. I have been the target of the criticism. Most of it unfair but I am sure some earned. I always won. It didn't always justify my approach. As I get older I just feel like I have more perspective. You really don't have to be a giant ass to win. And no it is NOT acceptable for a coach to yell scream and demean in the name of controlling his house or winning. There really is a middle ground. Hopefully we can find it. Especially baseball which is NOT a game of emotion. Quite the opposite emotion can kill you. If you have an issue with a kid bench him. Remove him from the team if it's not fixable. But what possible reason could there be for screaming??? As for dealing with parents it's a big whatever if you ask me. They will be what they will be why would it matter?
2020dad wrote, "truth is the coaching profession breeds these attitudes. It is changing for sure but unfortunately now we get decent people with no passion or knowledge for the game!!"
I couldn't have said that any better.........and it has been a huge source of frustration for me and for others like me that know the game. My kids have played in 2 different 6A HS programs in Texas. The profile of the HC at each of these HSs was exactly the same. Benchwarmer in a weak HS program, attended a 2nd tier state university and got a PE degree & a teaching certificate, got hired by a large suburban school district, volunteered as an Asst. Baseball Coach, and advanced thru attrition as other coaches on staff left to pursue different opportunities. After 10 years both of them were Head Coach of their HS baseball programs. Both are very decent men. Neither know the game. Both are more concerned about keeping parents and administration happy than anything else. Both were insecure about having "baseball guys" around their program. And both approached the job in a "punch the time card" fashion. Never there early. Never stayed late to help a kid - cuz you cant teach what you don't know.
Point being, and I have said this many times before, if you are lucky enough to have a good HS baseball coach you should count your lucky stars & do everything you can to support his program. A good coach should never be taken for granted.
Wow, lot of stuff here. First, if a "hard azz coach goes off on your kid," remove your kid if you think it unjustified. Then, mount an effort to get the coach fired. The question was asked what to do about the crazy parent going off on the coach. Well, beware that that dumb coach might just respond in kind so be prepared. Personally, if you want to dish it out, while I wouldn't want to do it in front of the players, I'll respond in kind and won't back down from anyone. You asked what does it matter if a crazy parent does such and such. Do you know that they know that there are limits? Beware!
So, you want stories of crazy parents, I've coached HS for 33 years and I've seen it all. As many of you know, I've been the HC in 4 sports. For the most part, the parents I have dealt with have been exception but having said that, I've been attacked by a parent before. He hit me at least 8 times before I could get out from under him and get control over him. When I let him go, he came at me again. That didn't work out well for him. My crime? His son wasn't playing in a game. This was in basketball and some of you know, there are playing time limits for players and quarters. This young man was playing on 3 levels and was a freshman. Long story short, this dad had a restraining order keeping him away from his son and family and he was mentally unstable. Since he had a restraining order, he was not aware that his son was only going to play the 1st and 3rd quarters. He was promptly arrested. The worst example was something I mentioned here long ago. I had a dad who was always yelling and screaming at ... While we thought he might be drunk most of the time, he was outside the left field fence and in the parking lot. That was until the day he decided to come out on the field to get after his son. I helped him leave the field but had to do so in front of his son who he was trying to attack. When that young man got home, his dad was waiting for him with a butcher knife and tried to kill him. That dad went to prison and when those locked up with him found out what he did, well, he didn't live long.
Look, there are crazy no good coaches. There are crazy no good parents. There are many in between. The vast majority of both coaches and parents are fine people. If a coach is abusive, get that coach removed. However, know the difference. For parents, take off the rose colored glasses and see your son for what he really is whatever that is. Don't rationalize that it is the coach when you know deep down in your heart that your son doesn't have it.
adbono posted:
Point being, and I have said this many times before, if you are lucky enough to have a good HS baseball coach you should count your lucky stars & do everything you can to support his program. A good coach should never be taken for granted.
My son's high school coach is a decent man with a good baseball track record who cares about the boys he coaches, both as players and as men. He is low key. He likes to win, but I've never seen him raise his voice. Maybe an eyebrow. That's generally all it takes. I am grateful he is coaching my son at this point in his life.
I didn't mean to turn this thread to coach-bashing. Over the years, we have had mostly good experiences with coaches, and even the ones who weren't my favorites devoted many hours of their time to my son's teams. We have also used the not-so-good coaches (as we have the not-so-good teachers) to teach our son that he will have to learn to get the job done even when he is dealing with difficult or deficient personalities. While I don't condone screaming at or belittling players, at some point our sons have to figure out how to navigate rough waters, and my role as a high school parent generally (barring something really serious) is to support and counsel rather than intervene.
Here is my closing argument!
I love sports. I love coaching. I am now retired from it. But I would never close the door to coaching again. I am eternally grateful for the coaches who mentored me. Some great people. Some were always great and some went through some regretful moments like I did early in my career.
I also believe from the bottom of my heart that there are a great many life's lessons and advantages for kids who play team sports. Including how to deal with a maniac. I would not pull my kid from a team with a maniac coach unless of course it endangered him somehow. I like to think I teach my kids not to melt because some egocentric coach screams at him. However I also teach my kids to stick up for themselves and never allow themselves to be minimized or berated by anyone including a coach. However being kids puts them at a tremendous disadvantage and like most kids won't always stick up for themselves when they have to. That's where parents sometimes need to get involved.
I have also learned from this thread that maybe I was more well liked as a coach than I thought lol! Other than the dad meeting me at home plate I never experienced any of the things some other have shared. Or maybe I was just gifted with really good parents from really good schools. Maybe a little of both.
So in conclusion I agree with the old timers that players and parents need to be a little more thick skinned and not so soft. But I guess where I depart with some on here is I think the coaches should be held to the same standard. In fact really a higher standard. After all we have coaches who are more than happy to tell us how great they are and how tough they are. So then toughen up and don't worry so much about the parents. Sports are a no snowflake zone - for players, parents and coaches alike!
And I'm not joking about the testosterone crisis. If you don't already know about it do some research. That's what's causing a lot of this and the downfall of sports and manhood in general.
Here is my update from a post I made early this year or late last year. I was the parent that sent an angry email to my son’s baseball coach regarding playing time. This got mixed opinions on this forum ( understandably). Well, my son made the JV team as there is no freshman team, with the understanding that he would have limited playing time. The coach has made good on his word, limiting him to 1 at bat a game and an average of 1 1/2 innings in the field. Keep in mind he is on a weak team with only a handful of decent hitters. They have lost every scrimmage game so far. The coach has definitely not forgotten my email. The first scrimmage game he sent my son home on a fly ball deep enough to tag up. My son went halfway, knowing he would be out of he kept running, and made it back to 3rd. Everyone naturally thought that my son is just a bad base runner. I think the coach was trying to make him look bad, and he did. Keep in mind the guy played D3 baseball, so it was not ignorance. Then, in one of the scrimmage games my son hit a hard line drive back at the pitcher in his second at bat. Luckily for the pitcher he got his glove up in time to avoid a serious head injury (cringe worthy). After that, my son has not gotten more than one at bat. I think this coach is out to embarrass my son, and limit him, so he cannot show what he can really do. It’s sad to see an adult hold a grudge and make a child pay for a parents mistake. In a sad way it’s good to know what I am in store for the entire season. I know that he will continue to get little to no playing time, and will get humiliated whenever there is an opportunity. Let this be a lesson to any other parent. Just bite your tongue, because in the long run it is not worth it.
I’m sorry to hear this. That must be really tough on your son. Are you and your son still discussing the situation? Does Your son know how you feel about his playing time?
Not all coaches would react that way but as your case demonstrates probably not worth the risk.
Still, I wonder if that is really what the coach is doing? He could’ve just cut your kid outright. How many games into the season are you and can you see a way for your son to talk to the coach about what’s happening? Or has that ship sailed?
Its pretty devastating. He has been on the bench in some pretty cold weather. Still early- 4 scrimmage games in. The one game he went in at the top of the 6th and had his throwing hand in his pocket to keep it warm. Coach saw that and benched him because he didn’t “look ready”. I have talked to my son and told him not to give up, and make the most of the time given to him. Still it is already wearing him down. Season ends in May. When the league games start, I’m afraid he won’t play at all. The scrimmage games are going to be his only opportunity to show something, but with maybe 1 at bat and an inning, it’s hard to show really anything. My son does not know that I emailed the coach. He knows I met with him in person, but does not know the whole story. I don’t want to tell him, as it will only make things worse. Im glad he didn’t get cut, as he still gets practice every day, but he is starting to hate baseball. It breaks my heart.
I don't mean to pile on you, but as a coach the things you are saying don't help your son's case. If I send you on a tag, you should not know whether you are getting thrown out or not. You are not to be looking back so how would your son know he was going to get thrown out unless he was watching the fielder and/or ball which are not supposed to be done. If you come back, I'm probably pulling you right then.
I can relate to the coach in the other situation you named. I pulled my starting shortstop when he had his hand in his pocket while the pitcher was on the mound ready to pitch. So, I can relate to the coach in both situations.
I also disagree that a player can catch the wrath for a parent. I have sent players home in travel ball because of how parents acted or things they said. I also did not accept a great player because I did not want to deal with their dad so for the coach to keep your son is a plus. I would probably have cut him rather than deal with it. I know a lot of players that don't get offers in college because the coaches don't want to deal with the parents for two or four years.
He didn’t have him tagging up. He had him running home on contact. My son knew he had to tag up, but didn’t want to go against the coach. He also didn’t want to be out. The coach admitted to my son he made a mistake. I have not had contact with the coach before or since the email, so categorizing me as “that parent” may be a stretch, although I do see your point of view with the pocket thing. In any case, my son is caught in the middle of this mess. He is a quiet kid, and very polite so he will never complain to the coach, so this is agonizing to him. I am powerless, except to just be supportive to him and encourage him to keep trying. I will definitely not ever speak to the coach, although I did encourage my son to speak to him. He is both too shy and proud to do it (which is why I sent the email in the first place). It is what it is.
I think both you and your son have to continue to be patient. I understand the stress but you don’t have many options.
If the coach admitted he made the mistake, why did you suggest he's trying to make him look bad? HS is a 4 year marathon, not a sprint. Your son made the team and is getting early season action as a freshman. Be positive, have him keep working hard, if he does his time will come.
I've encouraged my son to talk to his coach, in the past, but not in the first month of his freshman year. I would just keep at it, keep his spirits up and focus on the positive and the things your son can control.
KTCOTB posted:Here is my update from a post I made early this year or late last year. I was the parent that sent an angry email to my son’s baseball coach regarding playing time. This got mixed opinions on this forum ( understandably). Well, my son made the JV team as there is no freshman team, with the understanding that he would have limited playing time. The coach has made good on his word, limiting him to 1 at bat a game and an average of 1 1/2 innings in the field. Keep in mind he is on a weak team with only a handful of decent hitters. They have lost every scrimmage game so far. The coach has definitely not forgotten my email. The first scrimmage game he sent my son home on a fly ball deep enough to tag up. My son went halfway, knowing he would be out of he kept running, and made it back to 3rd. Everyone naturally thought that my son is just a bad base runner. I think the coach was trying to make him look bad, and he did. Keep in mind the guy played D3 baseball, so it was not ignorance. Then, in one of the scrimmage games my son hit a hard line drive back at the pitcher in his second at bat. Luckily for the pitcher he got his glove up in time to avoid a serious head injury (cringe worthy). After that, my son has not gotten more than one at bat. I think this coach is out to embarrass my son, and limit him, so he cannot show what he can really do. It’s sad to see an adult hold a grudge and make a child pay for a parents mistake. In a sad way it’s good to know what I am in store for the entire season. I know that he will continue to get little to no playing time, and will get humiliated whenever there is an opportunity. Let this be a lesson to any other parent. Just bite your tongue, because in the long run it is not worth it.
I'm sorry to be the ass now as I know it doesn't help now but you didn't get "mixed opinions", every single person in this thread told you to not do it and you did it anyway.
Normally I'm not doing this but in that case I think it needs to be said because i think you are not unlikely to continue those things because deep down you still think you did the right thing.
I think he now just need to sit it out, continue to work hard and hope next year is a better year.
Also maybe go to the coach and apologize for getting involved. Tell him you don't expect him to change his opinion but you made a mistake getting involved into things that are not your business and it won't happen again in the future.
Maybe it will help or maybe not but at least if he goes to varsity you can have a fresh start.
But if you still think you did the right thing I fear you will do it to the next coach again and maybe even in college.
The last option would be to change to another school if you think it can't be repaired but then please do yourself and your son a favor and do a strict "stay out of baseball" policy for yourself.
I know you are not a bad person and I like you fight for your son but the discussion here shows that you are a very "enthusiastic" debater and it is not easy to have a constructive conversation with you. That is no knock against you as you are just very passionate and you have strong opinions but in some situations that can be detrimental and communcating with a HS or college coach (or an employer...) is one of those situations.
I'm sorry if this seems like beating the dead horse but I think it needed to be said as not making a JV team is not the end of the world and next year is a new year (maybe he can even right the ship this year) but continuing to do this will be very bad especially if your son starts to adopt some of your attitudes which seems to be the case considering some comments I read here.
Nothing is lost yet but I strongly recommend seeing this as a chance to learn and growth for both of you and not getting bitter and develope an attitude like anyone but me is an idiot and wants to hold me down.
I think you have me confused with another parent. I didn’t seek advice here before I sent the email. I wish I did, as I would have seen his stupid it was to do. Also, he did make the team, which I am happy about. The team is composed of about 13 freshman, and 5 sophomores. I did speak to the coach after I sent the email and apologized profusely for what I did. Not trying to be argumentative or confrontational, but I’m trying to keep the facts straight. I hope I’m wrong about my suspicion for this year. My intent with the post was to get it out there to other parents contemplating speaking to the coach- it’s a bad idea. I don’t want anyone else to suffer.
CTBBALLDAD, I think you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what we plan to do.
Thanks KTCOTB for being willing to come back and share. That takes courage to admit mistakes, esp with the aim of helping other parents learn from your mistake. I appreciate it.
The one thing I want to caution you about is the danger that you will see all of the coach's action in a negative light, even if it's not reality. The baserunning issue from 3rd base was confusing. Based on your initial post, we all thought it was a SC and the coach got mad at him for not running hard all the way home. When you clarified that the coach sent him w/o tagging up, and the coach admitted he was wrong, my first thought was "what's the big deal then?". The coach wanted your son to look bad but then he admitted he was wrong? It doesn't compute.
“understanding that he would have limited playing time”
I’ve never heard of this except seniors who get uniforms for sticking it out. Everyone else is told their role. Non starters are told what they have to improve to earn more playing time.
“my son has not gotten more than one at bat”
It’s important to always be physically and mentally ready. A baseball future can change on one at bat, one situation on the basepaths, one play in the field, hustle and/or proper attitude.
”I think this coach is out to embarrass my son.”
I’m not going to say this never happens. It rarely happens. It’s not worth the effort for the coach. It’s easier to cut the player. There might be a message here. Your son is good enough to be on the team. But, due to prior experience let’s wait and see how dad handles his son not playing much before he plays more. How your son and you handle the current situation could be determining whether the slate gets cleaned.
KTCOTB posted:I think you have me confused with another parent. I didn’t seek advice here before I sent the email. I wish I did, as I would have seen his stupid it was to do. Also, he did make the team, which I am happy about. The team is composed of about 13 freshman, and 5 sophomores. I did speak to the coach after I sent the email and apologized profusely for what I did. Not trying to be argumentative or confrontational, but I’m trying to keep the facts straight. I hope I’m wrong about my suspicion for this year. My intent with the post was to get it out there to other parents contemplating speaking to the coach- it’s a bad idea. I don’t want anyone else to suffer.
Yes, i might have confused you with the thread starter, sorry for that. Here were multiple parents in this thread debating the same thing (all were told to not do it).