If height and weight don't matter, then why?

@KennieProton posted:

This is an old thread but I have a similar question related to height and thought I'd post it here. My nephew is a very good player and is only about 5'5" 145 as a 2022 who red shirted due to his size (didn't help much).  He's very talented and has top 10% metrics metrics as an OF.   MLB aside are do D1 colleges looking a kid that's only 5'5" 150 as a 17 year old or should he be more focused on D2 or D3?  He is currently tweeting at and sending video "power 5 conferences" and has gotten some responses but in his profile lists himself as 5'9 155.  I think 4 inches is a bit disingenuous and he should think about being more realistic but my brother in law thinks that everyone exaggerates so it doesn't matter what you put in the profile.   Thoughts from anyone with experience appreciated. I get that size shouldn't matter but reading above it probably does and a 5 inch fib seems like it could tick off some College Coaches/RCs.  

I would say lying about your height by 5 inches is never a good way to make good a first impression. If he is 5'5, he's short and every coach that sees him will recognize this. Why waste time talking to schools when they're immediately going to see a 5 inch lie. Imagine a 6'0 kid trying to pass as 6'5, it would be silly. 5'11 can be 6'0 with cleats, but 5'5 is never going to be 5'9. 

You can play high level baseball without size. Madrigal and Altuve do it, but they also have more than one plus tool and do it against the highest level of pitching consistently. You say his metrics are in the top 10%, top 10% of what and what are the tools? 

Bottom line is he can be 6'5 or 5'1, he has to hit high 80s pitching regularly and make loud outs if he wants to play D1 baseball. 60 time, exit velo, and all those stats are absolutely useless if he can't hit the hard throwers. 

To answer your question - no D1s aren't looking for 5'5 sub 150lbs players. If there happens to be a guy of that size who hits bombs against good pitching and has a great glove, exceptions can be made, but I can't think of more than 5 or 6. 

Which level should he target? Has anybody indicated what type of prospect he may be? What does his summer schedule look like? Is he playing locally or is he playing in the best events against other D1 kids? I would focus on targeting baseball programs that would be a good academic fit. 

I'm of the firm opinion that height and weight absolutely matter.  My 2021 MIF/CF son is 5'9" (actual) and 155-160 lbs and he passes ZERO eye ball tests when he walks through the door.  His measureables all fall within D1 thresholds (6.7 60, 3.87 Home to 1st, 90 OF velo, 86 INF velo) with the exception of exit velo. He's about 93 mph off a tee now and 95+ is what many say is needed to play D1.  He will be there before he steps foot on college campus a year from now, but D1 didn't happen.  He's headed to a good JUCO to work on getting a shot at a shorter stint in D1.  With just about every camp, showcase, etc he took part in, his size was the exception.  A coach's eyes always open wider when a 6'3" 210 lb kid steps on to the field.  I'm not bitter, but it'd be silly to think 3 inches and 25 lbs wouldn't be a difference maker in his case.  Smaller players simply need to do more to get attention.  Walk in at 5'9" 160 and no one says "Awesome, I'm excited to see what THIS kid does."

Funny. My guy a while back told me " I have the fastest FB in state for pitchers under 6 ft".

Just laughed and told him he better stop growing then.

there's a kid in our area. stood out as a kid but less so now, among his age group. stands out compared to his class, though, since he's reclassed 2x. somewhere in there, though, a year was shaved off of his pg profile making it look like he reclassed "only" 1x. 

ht and weight, I think, were exaggerated but he's experienced a growth spurt and his real height seems to have caught up with his listed height.

@mattys posted:

there's a kid in our area. stood out as a kid but less so now, among his age group. stands out compared to his class, though, since he's reclassed 2x. somewhere in there, though, a year was shaved off of his pg profile making it look like he reclassed "only" 1x. 

ht and weight, I think, were exaggerated but he's experienced a growth spurt and his real height seems to have caught up with his listed height.

I think we are going to see this a lot this year (I know it has always happened, but there is going to be a deluge in the next 12 months).  Every parent that has been on the border is going to use the current situation with school uncertainty to move back a year.  In our area it is already happening, even with kids that are big and hit their growth spurt.  This weekend saw a 14 year 10 month old pitch in a 13u tournament.  That is 2 years separation.  In the past couple of weeks it has felt like many of the 2025 teams are picking up new reclassified players.

@Around_The_Horn posted:

I think we are going to see this a lot this year (I know it has always happened, but there is going to be a deluge in the next 12 months).  Every parent that has been on the border is going to use the current situation with school uncertainty to move back a year.  In our area it is already happening, even with kids that are big and hit their growth spurt.  This weekend saw a 14 year 10 month old pitch in a 13u tournament.  That is 2 years separation.  In the past couple of weeks it has felt like many of the 2025 teams are picking up new reclassified players.

I can see the conversation in two years "the coaching staff knows you should be on varsity bc you have the skillset of a junior but we're keeping you on freshman this year because we need someone to drive the team to away games"

@mattys posted:

I can see the conversation in two years "the coaching staff knows you should be on varsity bc you have the skillset of a junior but we're keeping you on freshman this year because we need someone to drive the team to away games"

😅

Lying four inches on height is a bad move. The first impression the coach will have is the kid is dishonest and tried to trick him. My son is 6’2” in socks so the truth wasn’t an issue. But I wouldn’t go more than an inch beyond height with cleats on. 

The way for a 5’5” player to draw D1 attention is be the most noticeable player on the field. Impact the game. It will draw him a second look. Then, do it again.

A 5’5” outfielder better be running a 6.6 or better sixty. Is he?

@DanJ posted:

I'm of the firm opinion that height and weight absolutely matter.  My 2021 MIF/CF son is 5'9" (actual) and 155-160 lbs and he passes ZERO eye ball tests when he walks through the door.  His measureables all fall within D1 thresholds (6.7 60, 3.87 Home to 1st, 90 OF velo, 86 INF velo) with the exception of exit velo. He's about 93 mph off a tee now and 95+ is what many say is needed to play D1.  He will be there before he steps foot on college campus a year from now, but D1 didn't happen.  He's headed to a good JUCO to work on getting a shot at a shorter stint in D1.  With just about every camp, showcase, etc he took part in, his size was the exception.  A coach's eyes always open wider when a 6'3" 210 lb kid steps on to the field.  I'm not bitter, but it'd be silly to think 3 inches and 25 lbs wouldn't be a difference maker in his case.  Smaller players simply need to do more to get attention.  Walk in at 5'9" 160 and no one says "Awesome, I'm excited to see what THIS kid does."

Man o’ man does this sound sooooooooo familiar, almost exactly. And when you hit .450,.500,.420 in your last 3 HS/summer seasons and still nothing you realize that they are just basing it on size. It’s a joke. Even when you put on 25lbs and get to 5’10” 160 and take care of the classroom and have great references but still nothing you really wonder what coaches are looking for.

I will say, as I have in other threads, this year with the ‘21 class it’s all just a mess. Schools just are not bringing as many position players in. So maybe that has an impact but buy and large the size thing gets thrown in our face in a daily basis. It’s maddening and depressing for the player for sure. It sad because I think a lot of players in this class will end up not playing because of the situation.

This is a great thread as we are sharing some of the same frustrations.   Son just finished Freshman year, 5'11 and 160 pound SS. Straight A student.  Ran a 6.73 60 at camp, posted a 91 mph exit velo off a tee at a showcase, throws 85mph across the infield and is a secondary pitcher who recently ran his fastball up to 86mph.  Getting in done on both sides of the ball in live play also.   Plays for a top notch travel organization and he's had minimal interest because he's been told he needs to fill out more.   Meanwhile he's been watch "bigger" kids with lesser measurables get picked up.   

It’s really maddening for sure. Especially when the kid clicks every intangible box you could ever want him to. So much for coaches care about the entire player and who he is. ROFL

Height has never been an issue in our family. So, we’ve never been through the ignored due to size issue. My son was 6’2” 175 when he entered college. He was still expected to get bigger (fill out), faster, stronger. Soph year he was 195. It’s like the pitcher who throws 95 and doesn’t hit the strike zone in high school. The coaches are looking at potential upside. You can’t buy size. You can’t develop size. It’s there or it isn’t. The college coaches are projecting.

Once past the top couple hundred players in a class the next potential few thousand D1 prospects tend to blend in together. Unless a player wows coaches and dominates play it becomes all about appearance and projection. 

I wasn’t aware of Nick Madrigal (5’8”) until he was starring in college ball. I’m guessing he projected as a top player, not just a D1 prospect early in high school. 

@4arms posted:

This is a great thread as we are sharing some of the same frustrations.   Son just finished Freshman year, 5'11 and 160 pound SS. Straight A student.  Ran a 6.73 60 at camp, posted a 91 mph exit velo off a tee at a showcase, throws 85mph across the infield and is a secondary pitcher who recently ran his fastball up to 86mph.  Getting in done on both sides of the ball in live play also.   Plays for a top notch travel organization and he's had minimal interest because he's been told he needs to fill out more.   Meanwhile he's been watch "bigger" kids with lesser measurables get picked up.   

5’11”?  That is not short. 
Measurables are great to have, but you still have to hit the ball! And hit the ball in front of the right people (coaches who’s program’s you are interested in). 

@KennieProton posted:

This is an old thread but I have a similar question related to height and thought I'd post it here. My nephew is a very good player and is only about 5'5" 145 as a 2022 who red shirted due to his size (didn't help much).  He's very talented and has top 10% metrics metrics as an OF.   MLB aside are do D1 colleges looking a kid that's only 5'5" 150 as a 17 year old or should he be more focused on D2 or D3?  He is currently tweeting at and sending video "power 5 conferences" and has gotten some responses but in his profile lists himself as 5'9 155.  I think 4 inches is a bit disingenuous and he should think about being more realistic but my brother in law thinks that everyone exaggerates so it doesn't matter what you put in the profile.   Thoughts from anyone with experience appreciated. I get that size shouldn't matter but reading above it probably does and a 5 inch fib seems like it could tick off some College Coaches/RCs.  

He is 17. Power 5 are mostly done with recruiting his class. It would be a long shot to get P5 offers at this stage of his process. Short guys CAN play D1. Hit the ball!  
There are other programs besides P5. Target those. Get your summer ball coach involved in promoting the player. Be on a team that faces stud pitching regularly and dominate. Dominate in front of the schools you have interest, that are still recruiting. 
I can’t stress this enough: HIT THE BALL. 

@4arms posted:

This is a great thread as we are sharing some of the same frustrations.   Son just finished Freshman year, 5'11 and 160 pound SS. Straight A student.  Ran a 6.73 60 at camp, posted a 91 mph exit velo off a tee at a showcase, throws 85mph across the infield and is a secondary pitcher who recently ran his fastball up to 86mph.  Getting in done on both sides of the ball in live play also.   Plays for a top notch travel organization and he's had minimal interest because he's been told he needs to fill out more.   Meanwhile he's been watch "bigger" kids with lesser measurables get picked up.   

Your son is young, you should not worry about getting only minimal interest at this time.  Let him get better at working on skills and filling out.  Use next summer to show off in person.

JMO

Height goes back to one of the main mantras on the board ... Control what you can. Don’t waste time on what you can’t control. 

A player can’t control his height. He can control/optimize his strength, speed and measurable skills. It’s the best a player can do. Then figure out where these skills fit in the college game. 

Players with the skill set of a Nick Madrigal aren’t overlooked. Smaller players with lesser skills probably aren’t pro prospects. Find your fit in the game for a quality baseball experience and get a quality education. 

My son is 6'4 3/4". Used to list him at 6'4" or 6'5" It was amazing at PG events how many guys listed at 6'4 and 6'5" would stand next to him and barely be as tall as his ears.

Agree with Dan and RJM both valid posts. It’s funny because I talked to the HC at my Alma Mater (smaller D1) he said it’s simple, “with the draft and how kids enter the program now it’s tough for us to rely on “projecting” when every year it’s our job on the line. So for us we need more of a finished product.”

When he said it I let it sit a bit and realized in some ways he’s right. So they (coaches) are just a product of the environment. They react to what will work and need more immediate results...D1’s tend to want to project far less now than 20 years ago. It’s just the truth.

@Fmr coach now Dad posted:

Agree with Dan and RJM both valid posts. It’s funny because I talked to the HC at my Alma Mater (smaller D1) he said it’s simple, “with the draft and how kids enter the program now it’s tough for us to rely on “projecting” when every year it’s our job on the line. So for us we need more of a finished product.”

When he said it I let it sit a bit and realized in some ways he’s right. So they (coaches) are just a product of the environment. They react to what will work and need more immediate results...D1’s tend to want to project far less now than 20 years ago. It’s just the truth.

It's also MUCH easier for them to project now. Twenty years ago, there weren't many chances to see players going up against other D1 talent players on a regular basis. Today, with PG and other high level events, there's just a LOT more info out there than was available in the 90's.

Improve on what you have to work with show your desire to love the game.  My son (MI) was "average" in high school, 5'10 - 5'11 and 170's.  He knew that hard work, effort, and understanding the game better than others would hopefully give him an edge.  Beginning of Sr. year only 2 D1 schools were willing to take a chance on him.  He accepted one and for the 3 years he did well.  He did manage to grow to 6' and fill out a little 190's.  Was drafted in 1st round, minors for a couple of years and now MLB.  Even now sports writers ask him about his size and success, which he still admits to them he doesn't pass the eye test that fans envision a professional athlete to be.  He's not quite as small as Madrigal but as RJM has said "Control what you can, don't waste time on what you can't control.  With hard work, talent, and being in the right place at the right time (luck) hopefully your son will fulfill his dream.  

Root totally agree. When I was in HS We barely knew who played in the next town and you only knew of the great players by what you read in a newspaper. Crazy. I was telling both my brother in laws ( both  former D1 MIF) they way things are today  ,and with all the info and film so readily available, I truly believe none of us would have been recruited as D1 players in today’s environment. It’s the way it is.

@RJM posted:

Height goes back to one of the main mantras on the board ... Control what you can. Don’t waste time on what you can’t control. 

A player can’t control his height. He can control/optimize his strength, speed and measurable skills. It’s the best a player can do. Then figure out where these skills fit in the college game. 

Players with the skill set of a Nick Madrigal aren’t overlooked. Smaller players with lesser skills probably aren’t pro prospects. Find your fit in the game for a quality baseball experience and get a quality education. 

interestingly, OSU had another undersized dude on that team (steven kwan) get picked in the 5th round of the same draft. were the beavers just lucky in the their recruiting or have they picked up on a metric that others aren't wise to yet?

@mattys posted:

interestingly, OSU had another undersized dude on that team (steven kwan) get picked in the 5th round of the same draft. were the beavers just lucky in the their recruiting or have they picked up on a metric that others aren't wise to yet?

Despite his physical makeup at sixteen Kwan showcased and projected well ...

Steven Kwan is a 2015 OF/LHP with a 5-8 150 lb. frame from Fremont, CA who attends Washington. Small frame, thin immature build, hidden strength. Short load, quick hands, projectable bat speed with physical maturity, good leverage, short to the ball, line drive swing plane, good balance, simple swing mechanics, good hitting tools to project on. Runs well, bunted for a hit in game, gets down the line well. Stood out in outfield workout, moves well and attacks the baseball aggressively, covers good ground, quick feet, quick projectable arm, online throws with good carry. Also pitched and ran his fastball up to 85 mph, projectable velocity, smooth delivery pitching from a three quarter arm slot. Good young tools to develop. Good student.

@KennieProton posted:

Thanks for the responses glad I conjured this one back from the dead.  Just to go back to my original questions, remember this is a 5"5" kid (who a love like a son by the way) saying he's 5"9" but looking at his numbers and saying telling himself he can play anywhere so it doesn't matter so just fudge your height. Isn't that going to get him into trouble?  That's the real issue I was asking about not whether 5"10 guys can legitimately make the major leagues. 

I’ll make it simple. What baseball people are telling him he’s a D1 prospect? There are more potential D1 prospects than there are D1 slots. With the exception of a handful of physical late bloomers D1 prospects are recruited by 17u travel teams and told by their coaching staff they’re D1 prospects. Is this the case?

Don’t try to put a square peg in a round hole. For every player who makes D1 as a long shot here are a lot of players who get left out when the music stops playing. They get caught without a chair fishing in the wrong pond.

If a kid isn’t a pro prospect find the right place to have a quality baseball experience regardless of level and get an good education. For most players college baseball is about the beginning of a forty year plan, not a pro career.

@KennieProton posted:

Thanks for the responses glad I conjured this one back from the dead.  Just to go back to my original questions, remember this is a 5"5" kid (who a love like a son by the way) saying he's 5"9" but looking at his numbers and saying telling himself he can play anywhere so it doesn't matter so just fudge your height. Isn't that going to get him into trouble?  That's the real issue I was asking about not whether 5"10 guys can legitimately make the major leagues. 

You are right.  He should not lie.  

If he is 5’ 5.5” and he rounds to 5’ 6”.  Fine. But 4 inches, that can only go really bad for him.  

Plus 5’ 9” is not going to do anything anyways.  I don’t think any coach that is using height as a determine factor is going to say, “I really like this kid, only if he was 5’ 9” then I’d sign him”.

But if there is a coach that sees something he likes about him and makes the investment to come watch him play this will be a big turn off.  The first thing the coach is going to see is that he lied.  If he is there to only watch him and not others, he is more then likely to leave before the game starts.

We see this a lot with top travel teams.  A kids dad says that his 13u kid is 6’ 0” and throw 75 MPH.  Because that is where most of the kids on the team are, and Dad thinks “everyone is exaggerating “.   Dad and kid flys in, quickly realizes that no one but him is exaggerating.  Kid stands 5’ 8” and throws max 63. Kid gets his one at bat per game and strikes out every time.  Never see that kid again.

So again, don’t lie.  Focus on his strengths.

I can't imagine anybody would consider lying to a college coach during your first interaction to be a good start.

Agreed, be up front. Makes no sense to start that way. The truth is the truth 

Besides, being 5' 9" / 5' 10" is unimpressive, but everything a 5' 5" guy does gets noticed.

@KennieProton posted:

This is an old thread but I have a similar question related to height and thought I'd post it here. My nephew is a very good player and is only about 5'5" 145 as a 2022 who red shirted due to his size (didn't help much).  He's very talented and has top 10% metrics metrics as an OF.   MLB aside are do D1 colleges looking a kid that's only 5'5" 150 as a 17 year old or should he be more focused on D2 or D3?  He is currently tweeting at and sending video "power 5 conferences" and has gotten some responses but in his profile lists himself as 5'9 155.  I think 4 inches is a bit disingenuous and he should think about being more realistic but my brother in law thinks that everyone exaggerates so it doesn't matter what you put in the profile.   Thoughts from anyone with experience appreciated. I get that size shouldn't matter but reading above it probably does and a 5 inch fib seems like it could tick off some College Coaches/RCs.  

Rounding up one inch is "ok", adding 4 inches in certainly not and will get noticed and have a negative effect.

And of course being that short and small is a disadvantage, he needs to have tools to make up for that, especially speed and hittability. Also work on your strength to have at least adequate power for his height but don't get too heavy because nobody wants to have the bad body 5'6 200 guy. But at 145 he should at least add 10-15 pounds even at that height.

But first of all he needs to hit a lot, because nobody wants to have a 5'6 guy  who strikes out and he also must be fast and athletic enough to play up  the middle.

@RoadRunner posted:

He is 17. Power 5 are mostly done with recruiting his class. It would be a long shot to get P5 offers at this stage of his process. Short guys CAN play D1. Hit the ball!  
There are other programs besides P5. Target those. Get your summer ball coach involved in promoting the player. Be on a team that faces stud pitching regularly and dominate. Dominate in front of the schools you have interest, that are still recruiting. 
I can’t stress this enough: HIT THE BALL. 

Performance is definitely key for everyone but more so for the smaller or undertooled guys. Generally the great body, great athlete guys need to prove they can't hit while the smaller or lesser tooled guy needs to prove he can.

That is why a top international prospect or first round high schooler makes prospect lists after half a year of performance while a 10th rounder needs to rake 3 years to get noticed. 

Basically with the great tooled guys you already have a bias and you only need to see a bit of performance and you will believe it. That is why wander Franco became the top rated prospect in baseball in like his first pro year (same could happen to jasson Dominguez if he hits).

And with lesser tooled guys you need to see it more to believe it.

 Btw I think this is not even a bad thing. There are tooled guys who can't hit but if a tooled up guy shows he can hit at a lower level it is more likely to translate.

You even see it in the minors. If you have a great tool prospect and he performs in A ball with a decent k to bb rate it is likely he will succeed. On the other hand there are undertooled guys who perform in A ball because they have a good approach but it doesn't scale to higher levels (happens to later round college draftees who dominate rookie ball) so with those guys you need to wait until they show it at higher levels.

I got my eyes opened at a College Showcase when I became the designated driver one Saturday night for a dozen college coaches in a Conversion Van used to bus the team.  2 hours jammed in a hotel room pounding a couple of bottles of whiskey and cases of beer and then to the local bars.

One of the more interesting approaches was "I only recruit middle infielders and pitchers."   The guys that can't get the SS job will be converted to corners and OF even C.  Notion was the best player of every HS team was playing short.  He did admit he would take big power for a corner IF.  None had interest in little guys and anyone that couldn't run.

To the OP...there is an ACC commit on my son's summer team who is 5'6", maybe 5'7". He may have stretched his height by an inch or so but for the most part embraces his size and stands out by consistently getting on bases, having QABs, and running/ stealing the bases with aggression and moxie. He took a picture with my son who is on the other side of the spectrum and did a side-by-side of an Altuve/Judge picture on IG. LOL All this to say, and I think this is the answer to a lot of baseball recruiting questions, the best bet is to work on being the best version of yourself and hopefully finding the team that appreciates YOU and needs YOU rather than trying to pretend you are something you are not. 

My son is a bigger kid. We just say 6' 3". He could definitely round up but it does not matter as much but it looks like everyone does some number manipulation. Just go look at Kyler Murrays PG profile, it lists him at 6' 1". Then his NFL profile says 5' 10"......   No reason to lie when you're that good. LOL

@mihood622 posted:

My son is a bigger kid. We just say 6' 3". He could definitely round up but it does not matter as much but it looks like everyone does some number manipulation. Just go look at Kyler Murrays PG profile, it lists him at 6' 1". Then his NFL profile says 5' 10"......   No reason to lie when you're that good. LOL

Cleats, man. Cleats.

Used to be common in the NBA where guys would be listed at 7' or 7' 1" then in the NBA listed at 6' 10" / 6' 11". Measuring height in shoes in college and high school is the way to go.