Is baseball Different?

Have you ever met a soccer Mom?

Actually years ago that word was banned from the HSBBW!

Years ago, we met a couple at a dinner whose kid went on to play soccer at college. Comparing notes, their journey and roller-coaster ride sounded like our baseball parent experience.

Maybe there's some regional differences also at play. Baseball certainly has varying popularity. There are some decently sized high schools here that can barely field team. Blew my mind when I learned that. Maybe swimming isn't big, relatively speaking, where you are.

I was a successful high school swimmer for a large school. My experience was the same with swimming. Just a few girls from the team went on to swim or play water polo in college even though our teams regularly dominated at the state level.

@JucoDad - As a former baseball parent (3 sons), I know I didn’t pay much attention to any other sports unless I had interest or experience....specifically baseball and tennis for me.  Fast forward a few years, and two of my daughter-in- laws (DIL) were college student athletes.  One played D1 soccer and the other was a D3 swimmer.  Both loved their sport and talking to their parents they seemed every bit as crazy as we were about baseball.  They keep in touch with their network of former high school and college athlete parents just as my wife and I do.  One of my DILs went to a wedding in Paris to see her old college teammates, and they’ve remained just as tight as my oldest has with his college baseball teammates.

Both DILs have shared how difficult and competitive their non-revenue sport recruiting journey was.  Both were seriously thinking of college athletics when they were sophomores in high school which pretty much corresponds to when my oldest son decided college baseball could be in his future.   Both DILs went to large high schools, and had many teammates go on to compete in their sport in college.  One DIL has 3 sisters, and they all swam in college.

It appears there is an athletic “silo” that we only know and see what is going on in our kids particular sport.   Maybe because of the focus needed to get a college athletic opportunity or the scholarship dollars that parents appear to be chasing.  You be the judge.

Just my experience....

PS...Where I think baseball is very different is how and when a player goes professional.

My daughter's step son played LX. They spent many summers and much $$ traveling up north for tournaments. He got a lot of northern D3 opportunities but he didn't have the grades to get much academic money. He finally got into a D2 in Florida for LX but hated every minute of his experience. Now at an SEC school  he has been asked if he would join the LX club team.

Living in South Florida, there are many  opportunities in different sports but baseball is supreme. My son's best friend is opening his second training center. I might add that they train soccer players as well, especially girls.

The demand for legit youth training is unbelievable.

But I agree that baseball stands out among all youth sports because of the pro factor.

JMO

My boys all swam competitively on club teams and still swim in HS as seniors, even the baseball playing one.  They also run xc.  The parents are similarly obsessive in those sports, big difference I see is the objectivity with swimming and running.  The athletes either have the area/state cuts or they do not.  In my opinion baseball lets people believe, longer, in the odds of "one good season" or are more readily able to blame "one bad coach" for their kid's success.  Swimming and running parents are not able to engage in as much finger-pointing - the kid either has the talent or does not.  Also, a lot of swim kids in particular get burned out with the practice routine for nominal or no gains and decide they are just done by the time HS wraps up. 

My college baseball bound kid had a higher level of interest for college running - there are often publicized set recruiting standards and coaches reach out to gauge interest.  He was xc all-state for the past three years, easy to project.  It would have perhaps been a much easier path for him to follow but he enjoys the baseball world so much more, so there is that. 

@Francis7 posted:

Years ago, we met a couple at a dinner whose kid went on to play soccer at college. Comparing notes, their journey and roller-coaster ride sounded like our baseball parent experience.

How long did it take you to compare notes (there is no way that they fit all in one notebook)?

{sarcasm} oh lord, there is another you on a soccer message board.  Not sure the interweb can handle it. {sarcasm}

My kids played high school sports in a large classification school. My son lettered in three sports. My daughter lettered in four. Their travel experience outside baseball and softball was town level, in season travel leading up to high school. I didn’t find the insanity in travel soccer and travel basketball any different than baseball and softball.

I found the parents of girls travel sports to be far worse than boys sports. A friend surmised part of the problem in girls travel sports are the dads who are ticked off they don’t have boys. Although the only serious confrontation issue was when a mother assaulted my son after a U11 (ten year olds) travel soccer match.

Almost all of my kid’s friends went on to play a college sport. The high school had two former athlete, guidance counselors with expertise in placing athletes.

Everyone on my son’s high school soccer team except my son went on to play college soccer at some level. I recollect the conversations about recruiting at high school games being just as stressed out as baseball parents.

We are in the DC metro area and basketball is just insane...I thought the girls basketball families were over the top until my son made varsity on his national top 10 boys team. It was fun for us because he had no college aspirations but it was a huge pressure cooker with crazy intensity from a lot of parents. All but one of his teammates played college, most going D1 to schools like Miami, Harvard, Pitt and Illinois. My daughter's teams included VA Tech, UConn, Columbia, UNC, Michigan, Georgetown and her at  Northerwestern (NU not NW 😂). They finished #2 nationally. Coolest thing about my daughters teams is that all but three of the over 25 girls who played after college graduated from their original school.

Final funny story. Ed Orgeron was at my kids' HS (in DC) recruiting football players for LSU and took my son's name down after passing him in the hall based on body type alone. So yeah, there is a lot of ridiculous ness in college recruiting in all sports.

Basketball and Hockey come to mind with the same prep-school, post-grad, early recruiting scenarios as baseball.  Also travel programs, for hockey instead of going to GA or FL for tournaments it's Russia and Scandinavia.

I do not live in any kind of hotbed; the kids who are particularly good at a sport often do go off and play in college, usually at a D3, but most do not. Many of the ones who do play had parents who also played a sport in college.  Interestingly, for having such large teams, football players seem less likely to play in college than other sports.

My youngest was a varsity golfer in HS; golf teams only have 5 players on varsity, so there aren't many looking at colleges in any given year.  There is a circuit for those who are taking it very seriously from young childhood.  One of my son's teammates is now playing at a D3, and my son was good enough to do that if he had wanted - but he decided against it.  After all, he can play golf without that, and can even compete in local tournaments if he misses competition.

I did see some insane parents at summer golf tournaments, but not many.  The craziest sports parent I ever saw was a dad who screamed at his 13-year-old son "you just lost a D1 scholarship" and drove off in his golf cart, after the poor kid missed a putt.

My oldest son swam a lot when he was young. I think we unknowingly pushed him too much. He was a first or second grader swimming with 5th and 6th graders. Swimming seems like a lonely activity....

Also fun fact. My son's team was playing in in a PG event in Florida about 6 years ago at 13U. A Super 25 or something like that. As often happens we had a game that went into a rain delay and eventually had to be rescheduled. Our SS had to leave prior to the game being completed to go to a LAX tournament back in the NE. We ended up having to complete the game to get out of pool play. Because he wasn't at the game we had to take an out when it was his turn in the order. We lost a very close game and did not make it to the elimination rounds. Lots of parents were pissed as was I. Fast forward 5 years that kid ended up committing to Harvard to play LAX. I ended up txting the dad "Good choice". We had a good laugh about it.

The “you just blew your D1 with that missed putt” aimed at a 13yo brought a flashback …

Live in girlfriend (at the time) had a stud tennis playing son. He played his first US Open exhibition at thirteen. He was a state sports magazine cover boy playing #1 singles at his tennis power private school as a high school freshman. The kid’s goal was to play tennis at Princeton and get an engineering degree.

After winning a tournament as a sixteen year old the father (wanted it worse than the kid) tore the kid apart for playing uninspired. The kid snapped. He busted up his rackets and told the dad where he could put them.

He told his father he wasn’t going to play college tennis. He told him if he shows up at any future matches he would walk off the court. He did two weeks later.

It’s kid won the state singles tournament his junior and senior year, blew off all recruiting and attended a Big Ten (hundreds of miles away) for an engineering degree. After college he stayed in Illinois.

its sad. Dad wanted the glory so badly for his son he lost him. The kid was one of the mellowest kids I’ve ever met. On the court he was a killer. Dad drove the passion out of him.

Reading the state the OP notes as Texas - I'm shocked football was not mentioned - all things considered from elsewhere in this country TX is known as the 'hotbed' of HS football... I cannot imagine those parents not being ravenous and protective of their children... I live in FL now and it's a football hotbed. I don't go to games, but know officials who tell me games can get "interesting".  We also were in NC for a few years and went to a couple games (our kids played in HS, we were just interested bystanders) - suffice to say it's quite a spectacle.

Similar to fenwaysouth - I have a DIL who played field hockey thru d3 college and is now a coach at a private HS in Charlotte... Her sister played FH too at a D1 school - both tell stories of FH "trips" to FL for showcases during holidays (they were from NJ). It surprised me, but then as I thought about - I suppose every sport has their need to have money making events like baseball. I go to support our DIL at her HS FH games - I can attest the parent group is on officials just like any baseball crowd. Her mother also goes to games and is likewise shall I say still very passionate about the inferior officiating (as if it was her daughter being fouled). I don't know all that goes on behind the scenes, but from my DIL's phone blowing up during recruiting season - I'd say there's some similarities...

I also think basketball is another one of those sports where "too many" think their kid could get a scholly. The parents certainly all feel they know how to coach better than the coach and can officiate the best from the stands. Sorry your 5' 7" PF in HS in NH isn't getting a scholly at an ACC school. When I officiated in NC for a couple years, there were JV games where kids were dunking and moving the ball really well. They could beat most NH V teams. So it's all about perspective.

I also think basketball is another one of those sports where "too many" think their kid could get a scholly. The parents certainly all feel they know how to coach better than the coach and can officiate the best from the stands. Sorry your 5' 7" PF in HS in NH isn't getting a scholly at an ACC school. When I officiated in NC for a couple years, there were JV games where kids were dunking and moving the ball really well. They could beat most NH V teams. So it's all about perspective.

When I was commissioner of the 11/12 rec league I tried to give some parents a little perspective. I explained 80% of the kids, IF they have talent will be trying out for 1 or 2 due to their size. So they better be lights out shooters or lights out dribblers. Some the parents think are uncoordinated now will become 6’6” or taller starters.

A kid who travelled almost every time he touched the ball became a 6’7” 220 all state forward. He’s now 6’7” 275 NFL edge rusher. Another kid who tripped over the ball half the time he went between his legs at twelve became 6’4” agile as hell and could jump out of the room. He played hoops in the SEC.

i took both these kids on my 12u travel team. They didn’t play more than the minimum time I promised parents. But we worked with them until the coordination started coming after puberty in 14u.

Travel sports were our family vacation given the kids played different season sports. The company was usually good until the dysfunction came by mid season. I saw a lot of the east coast and it did provide me useful insight on which states I would not retire into. I did enjoy the local cuisine a little too much as I gained 10+ pounds over a decade travelled. Surprisingly many places south of the Mason Dixon had been infiltrated by the Yanks so it did not feel I truly left the northeast. Also, while some folks did not complain about the cost of participating in travel sports, they all agreed it is too expensive.

@JucoDad posted:

I’m on this site because I’ve outlasted my non-virtual baseball parent circle that grows increasingly smaller the longer your kid plays. That, and I’d like to think I can add a little value sharing the parental perspective of HS, juco, D1 and pro ball (although time makes it a little less relevant with each passing year).

My eldest was a good swimmer, made 5A state (Texas) but didn’t medal. Neither he, nor any parent I spoke with ever mentioned wanting to swim in college, even though there are roughly 500 programs: Juco – D1. Maybe the talent level wasn’t there, or maybe swimming doesn’t elicit the same fanaticism or addiction that baseball seems to create?

In 2014, the last year of HS baseball in our house it seemed that every senior varsity starter had a place or was looking for a place to play after HS. Huge difference from swimming. Some never found a place, some never played for the places they found but there were juco, d3 and NAIA commits aplenty. Is this an anomaly to baseball, or are there other HS sports with the same athlete and parental fever? If not, why do you think that is?

I think the subjective factor of baseball performance plays a big role. In baseball really every player who has a minimum of skill can hit .300 - against the right level of competition. For one that level might be a beer league or little league as a kid and for someone else that level is mlb.

So if you performed decently in high school you can have hopes that that transfers to the next level.

HS players of course have heard thousands of times that college is harder and on an intellectual level you understand that but deep down a kid who never experienced failure and produced at the plate or on the mound probably does see his success continue even though intellectually he knows it is going to be harder.

Swimming or track and field is different though. A time is a time and either you can swim a 50 second 100 meters or you can't.

Sure in baseball there are also measurables but there are still those exceptions in baseball like that one starter who throws 86 in mlb or the one hitter who only has a 100 mph max ev but makes contact every time.

This doesn't exist in swimming, if you are slow you are slow, "intangibles" can't make up for this.

So even guys who maybe competed in a weak swimming HS region and won some meets know whether their times can carry them to the next level or not.

I would agree with what @Dominik85 shared. Sports like running/swimming have concrete times. You're either fast enough or your not. A sport like tennis is also relatively easy for evaluating ability. Basically have two people play a set and you'll determine who's going to win the majority of the time. Baseball...that's a multi-person team sport, so it's hard to figure out how much of an impact a singular player can have on the team's overall performance.

My family had a discussion the other day about what we called "equalizer" sports. Sports that don't provide large advantages due to physical shape. For example, we all decided basketball is a sport where having height gives quite a huge advantage. Wrestling was one we decided, due to weight classes, that sort of equalized competition. We felt that swimming was one that definitely gave advantages to those with height. Football was another, that's probably why sprint league has come about. Baseball, was a mixed one. As a pitcher, we felt size made a huge difference, but for a position player we didn't feel that being big gave a huge advantage. Sure a bigger person will probably generate more power when hitting/throwing, but with hitting we felt coordination is what made the biggest impact.

Obviously, when one trains for a specific sport though, the body physically changes to better perform in that sport. I know for myself I would swing 20lbs in weight as a petite female each year. I was a lightweight during XC and in the spring I was at my heaviest as a sprinter. I would never get any taller, but between being a distance runner or a sprinter...my genetics were better programmed for sprinting.

Interesting. Even football has smaller players. D backs, running backs and even some safety's and wide receivers are actually not that tall (I know tall is relative). O line you need mountain men. There is a sweet spot for hitters in baseball. Too tall or too short and you have something to prove. Gymnastics, the smaller the better. What every sport requires at the highest level is fast twitch, coordination, a crap ton of grit and staying healthy.

Soccer seems to be the most agnostic to size/height. I imagine rugby, lacrosse, ice hockey, and field hockey might be similar. Running too esp distance running.

In response to the original question: is baseball different in a way that makes more young people want to play it in college?  Probably not.

But…there is a potential pot o’ gold at the end of the baseball rainbow. Not so for swimming and most other sports.

A better comparison might be football or basketball.

  I definitely think baseball is different and this is why. I will watch most any sporting event just to see athletes compete. But if it’s a sport I don’t know that much about I’m content to be a spectator. I watch, observe and keep my mouth shut - especially if I’m watching a live event. I don’t voice strong opinions and I don’t act like I know more than the coaches, players, officials, and other fans. How could I when I don’t know the sport that well. And most other people behave the same way around other sports.

But baseball is not like other sports in that way, IMO. Everyone thinks they know something about baseball and they just can’t wait to let you know about it. Maybe it’s because baseball has long been called our national pastime. Maybe it’s because the love of the game is usually passed down from an older family member. Maybe it’s all the history and the nostalgia. Maybe it’s some of all that. But whatever the reason it’s a real thing. When I scout HS players, the conversations I hear in the stands are mind blowing. So many people are so confidently wrong and freely spout their bad takes for all to hear. It’s truly amazing.
 

Soccer seems to be the most agnostic to size/height. I imagine rugby, lacrosse, ice hockey, and field hockey might be similar. Running too esp distance running.

I'm guessing you know very little about these sports.

@adbono posted:

  I definitely think baseball is different and this is why. I will watch most any sporting event just to see athletes compete. But if it’s a sport I don’t know that much about I’m content to be a spectator. I watch, observe and keep my mouth shut - especially if I’m watching a live event. I don’t voice strong opinions and I don’t act like I know more than the coaches, players, officials, and other fans. How could I when I don’t know the sport that well. And most other people behave the same way around other sports.

But baseball is not like other sports in that way, IMO. Everyone thinks they know something about baseball and they just can’t wait to let you know about it. Maybe it’s because baseball has long been called our national pastime. Maybe it’s because the love of the game is usually passed down from an older family member. Maybe it’s all the history and the nostalgia. Maybe it’s some of all that. But whatever the reason it’s a real thing. When I scout HS players, the conversations I hear in the stands are mind blowing. So many people are so confidently wrong and freely spout their bad takes for all to hear. It’s truly amazing.

I find the same to be true in football. In baseball most males played in some organization of preteen baseball. In both baseball and football these know it all fans think they’re being explained the intricacies of the game by game announcers and newspaper columnists. These people fall under the category of unconscious incompetence. They don’t even know what it is they don’t know.

It cracks me up looking at a guy who looks like he could be taken out with one punch calling an NFL player a pussy.

When a baseball fan gets on my nerves I ask them to explain the sure sign of bat drag. A majority of the time they don’t even know what it is. My favorite response was a player who swings so slowly he’s dragging his bat across the plate.

In the wildest exaggeration of the explanation it’s correct. But, it’s far from the correct response.

@RJM posted:

Soccer seems to be the most agnostic to size/height. I imagine rugby, lacrosse, ice hockey, and field hockey might be similar. Running too esp distance running.

I'm guessing you know very little about these sports.

I'm guessing you just want to insult me without explaining  anything.

@SpeedDemon posted:

I'm guessing you just want to insult me without explaining  anything.

Without looking anything up I know the average NHL player is 6’’2 200. It’s a physical game. The average Premier League soccer player is 6’ 170. He has to be able to out jump opposition on headers and be agile enough to run the pitch. The average Pro Lacrosse player is 6’2” 200.

Long distance runners are thin. They used to be 6’+ 150. The African trend now (best long distance runners in the world) is 5’4” to 5’8” and proportionally thin.

I don’t know anything about rugby or men’s field hockey I only know women’s field hockey. A neighbor and friend of my daughter was on the US team for years.

@RJM posted:

Without looking anything up I know the average NHL player is 6’’2 200. It’s a physical game. The average Premier League soccer player is 6’ 170. He has to be able to out jump opposition on headers and be agile enough to run the pitch. The average Pro Lacrosse player is 6’2” 200.

Long distance runners are thin. They used to be 6’+ 150. The African trend now (best long distance runners in the world) is 5’4” to 5’8” and proportionally thin.

I don’t know anything about rugby or men’s field hockey I only know women’s field hockey. A neighbor and friend of my daughter was on the US team for years.

Rinaldo is 6'2", Messi is 5'7"

The range of players on the USWNT is 6'1" Casey Murphy to 5'1" Rose Lavelle

Phil Esposito is 6'1", Gretzy is 6', Connor Bedard is 5'10"

Evans Chebet, winner of the 2022 and 2023 Boston Marathons is 5'7"

- 2023 runner up Gabriel Geay is 5'3"

- 2022 runner up Lawrence Cherono is >6' tall

Lots of tall baseball players yet Altuve and Kemp are having pretty good careers

If anything, it seems like the range of heights for pro athletes is expanding. Maybe analytics and training have advanced to give guys who'd have been previously overlooked a chance.

But more important, I am still trying to understand why your first reaction to my post was to say "you know very little about these sports". Why would you write that?

"Look for the common tread" The six tools. Study the history of the Boston Celtics, NY Yankees.

Bob

@SpeedDemon wrote, “Maybe analytics and training have advanced to give guys who’d have previously been overlooked a chance.”

Bingo! To your point I will cite an example that I have seen firsthand. One of the freshmen pitchers at our West Texas JuCo (Carlos) stands about 5’-9”. He only threw 84 mph at our summer camp but he showed enough offspeed for us to take him as a walk on. The first week of fall we had all pitchers throw a baseline bullpen and we used our Trackman unit to record data on every pitcher. What we learned about Carlos is that he has a high spin rate fastball that really holds it’s plane. And he has a release height of 4’-4”. So the ball travels on an almost true horizontal plane from the moment it leaves his hand until it arrives at the plate. This is highly unusual and allows him to be effective at the top of the strike zone because his FB has unique qualities - and most hitters swing uphill (too much). An uphill swing only intersects with a flat plane pitch for a moment- so geometry explains why this is a good thing for Carlos. Training him to have a more efficient delivery, and time in the weight room, has increased his velocity to 87. Now he gets a lot of swing & miss with the hitters consistently swinging below his fastball. And he will be an important piece coming out of the bullpen for us. As recently as last year we (or anyone else) wouldn’t have seen much value in a guy like Carlos in a region as competitive as ours so he is a perfect case in point.

Adbono, Carlos also had the 6th Tool. The "desire to help his team win"!

Bob

@adbono posted:

When I scout HS players, the conversations I hear in the stands are mind blowing. So many people are so confidently wrong and freely spout their bad takes for all to hear. It’s truly amazing.

I’d love to watch a hs/college game with you.  I bet I’d learn a ton.  I freely admit it though, I don’t know much.

@Dadof3 posted:

I’d love to watch a hs/college game with you.  I bet I’d learn a ton.  I freely admit it though, I don’t know much.

The people that don’t know much are the ones I (sometimes) impress the most!

@adbono posted:

@SpeedDemon wrote, “Maybe analytics and training have advanced to give guys who’d have previously been overlooked a chance.”

Bingo! To your point I will cite an example that I have seen firsthand. One of the freshmen pitchers at our West Texas JuCo (Carlos) stands about 5’-9”. He only threw 84 mph at our summer camp but he showed enough offspeed for us to take him as a walk on. The first week of fall we had all pitchers throw a baseline bullpen and we used our Trackman unit to record data on every pitcher. What we learned about Carlos is that he has a high spin rate fastball that really holds it’s plane. And he has a release height of 4’-4”. So the ball travels on an almost true horizontal plane from the moment it leaves his hand until it arrives at the plate. This is highly unusual and allows him to be effective at the top of the strike zone because his FB has unique qualities - and most hitters swing uphill (too much). An uphill swing only intersects with a flat plane pitch for a moment- so geometry explains why this is a good thing for Carlos. Training him to have a more efficient delivery, and time in the weight room, has increased his velocity to 87. Now he gets a lot of swing & miss with the hitters consistently swinging below his fastball. And he will be an important piece coming out of the bullpen for us. As recently as last year we (or anyone else) wouldn’t have seen much value in a guy like Carlos in a region as competitive as ours so he is a perfect case in point.

Thanks.

Your post also reminds me of this:

@SpeedDemon posted:

Thanks.

Your post also reminds me of this:

Ted Williams is possibly the greatest hitter of all time. That conversation begins with him. And his book, The Science of Hitting, has stood the test of time. There is a current group of people that call themselves “swing coaches” that are promoting (for money, of course) a different type of swing that they call High Level Pattern (HLP). None of these “instructors” played the game at a high level and their concept is fundamentally flawed. Yet on Twitter they curse and besmirch former MLB players who attempt to call them out as frauds. It’s entertaining on one hand but also kind of disturbing because of the amount of (unknowledgeable) kids and parents that argue on behalf of the grifters. The point of bringing this up is to talk about the desired plane of the swing - which is SLIGHTLY uphill. The “instructors” that teach HLP and Launch Angle are doing a disservice to the people that are paying them for lessons. They are setting kids up to fail by teaching a swing that is TOO MUCH uphill - making it impossible to hit any pitch at the top of the strike zone. Which makes it easy to get them out.

I was coaching baseball before the TB craziness started and went through the process as it started.  I saw the crazies from the start and had more than my fair share of conflicts.  Having a daughter, I can say that the crazies are just crazy for softball and that the differences are subtle.  The interesting thing to me is that the "crazies" actually can be categorized in a couple of different ways.  Some are fanatics for their sons in baseball but have a good grasp of reality.  Some, not so much.  In softball, I constantly see so many who lack the ability to put away those rose-colored glasses.  Perhaps that is because I am closer to that crowd now due to coaching HS softball. 

Soccer is huge in the community I live in.  We are typically one of the best teams in the state and have a few state championships.  For a good time, go to one of those games and you'll see and hear things you never thought would be said in public.  LOL 

@adbono posted:

Ted Williams is possibly the greatest hitter of all time. That conversation begins with him. And his book, The Science of Hitting, has stood the test of time. There is a current group of people that call themselves “swing coaches” that are promoting (for money, of course) a different type of swing that they call High Level Pattern (HLP). None of these “instructors” played the game at a high level and their concept is fundamentally flawed. Yet on Twitter they curse and besmirch former MLB players who attempt to call them out as frauds. It’s entertaining on one hand but also kind of disturbing because of the amount of (unknowledgeable) kids and parents that argue on behalf of the grifters. The point of bringing this up is to talk about the desired plane of the swing - which is SLIGHTLY uphill. The “instructors” that teach HLP and Launch Angle are doing a disservice to the people that are paying them for lessons. They are setting kids up to fail by teaching a swing that is TOO MUCH uphill - making it impossible to hit any pitch at the top of the strike zone. Which makes it easy to get them out.

Dang, so much truth is a paragraph!  I have been in on that from the start and some here may recall the good times in the hitting forum.  I could write a book about it.  Heck, I could write a couple of books about it. 

@CoachB25 posted:

Dang, so much truth is a paragraph!  I have been in on that from the start and some here may recall the good times in the hitting forum.  I could write a book about it.  Heck, I could write a couple of books about it.

Yeah, I understand that Teacherman used to spew his vile on HSBBW back in the day. Thankfully that was well before I joined this site. I have seen what it’s like interacting with that guy.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Rinaldo is 6'2", Messi is 5'7"

The range of players on the USWNT is 6'1" Casey Murphy to 5'1" Rose Lavelle

Phil Esposito is 6'1", Gretzy is 6', Connor Bedard is 5'10"

Evans Chebet, winner of the 2022 and 2023 Boston Marathons is 5'7"

- 2023 runner up Gabriel Geay is 5'3"

- 2022 runner up Lawrence Cherono is >6' tall

Lots of tall baseball players yet Altuve and Kemp are having pretty good careers

If anything, it seems like the range of heights for pro athletes is expanding. Maybe analytics and training have advanced to give guys who'd have been previously overlooked a chance.

But more important, I am still trying to understand why your first reaction to my post was to say "you know very little about these sports". Why would you write that?

You can find exceptions in most sports. They’re anecdotal.

@RJM posted:

You can find exceptions in most sports. They’re anecdotal.

I can tell that you’ll never back down, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

It is what it is.