JV Politics - Please tell me it's not always this bad

Politics affects every other area of life, why not sports?

There are good coaches and bad coaches, just like in anything else.

Some coaches are influenced by those who raise big bucks for the booster club, others by those who have influence in the administration, etc. And some do their job the best they can without regard to such things.

You guy's better be careful, this is a touchy subject with some on this site.

Our freshman coach was an asistant on a U14 team last summer. Several of his high school players were on the U14 team he coached. He is planning on coaching the same bunch of kids as U15 this summer.

His "select" kids play while other, more talented kids sit and split time at other positions. It's so bad that a kid who was originally cut from the team was aded to the roster two weeks after tryouts because he started taking hitting lessons from the select team's Head Coach. The kid's mother was very candid about how her son got another shot at making the team. She said that the select Head Coach called the freshman coach and asked him to give the kid anothr shot. She said the $60 per hour fee was well worth the money.

I do have a kid on the team, but the coach's favoritism hasn't impacted him yet. The coach asked my son to play on his team this summer, but my son is afraid that if he says no, his playing time might be cut.

Lots of realy good kids are getting the shaft because they play for the wrong select team during the summer. The best CF on the team has only seen the field three times this season... 2 innings on the hill and one at 1st base. The kid told my son he's thinking about running track instead of playing baseball next year.

It has been a really dissapointing season so far.



I sure hope next year s better

I understand what you're saying, and politics absolutely dominate some schools. My son goes to a school that has a relatively strong program, and he was the best player of the JV team last year. He hit .600, won MVP and was 1st team all league. This year, he's on JV again because the coach has a tendency to play seniors just because he can. There are other kids who were on the JV team last year that start this year, but my son is not on varsity because of politics, not talent.

I'm warning you......politics and bad coaches

quote:

Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
You guy's better be careful, this is a touchy subject with some on this site.

I never said that all coaches are bad, just that I think this one coach is biased by his affiliation with a select team. I don't see why it should be a taboo subject here. If it makes some othe the coaches that post here mad, so be it. It should make a good coach mad that others in their profession don't operate with the same ethics and standards that they do.

I'm darn sure not going to talk to the coach about it for fear of it hurting my son. I'm not going to go to the head coach or the administration for fear of being branded as a trouble-maker and it effecting my son's future at the school.

At least here, I can vent my frustration. At a minimum, I feel like I can get something off my chest; at best I get some constructive advice from others who have been through similar situations.

El Tee the reason why it's a touchy subject is some people have insinuated all high school coaches as political. We, as the high school coaches, agree there are terrible coaches out there and we have stated that numerous times. But some people don't understand this and think we stick together in some sort of twisted brotherhood.

This is not an insult towards that's a balk because I don't remember what he posted to say he is with the close minded group or not.

If you go back through some old posts you will see what I am talking about. All of us coaches do not get mad when you criticize a coach because we know there are bad ones out there. But we also take what you say with a grain of salt because we see it everyday some parent who thinks his son is the next MLB star and he can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Just like parents should take a coach with a grain of salt when the coach says he doesn't play favorites because in his mind he isn't.

Some people want to take a middle of the road situation and put it in the extremes and label others.

This is becoming a big problem at the high school level. Not all programs, of course, but here is the story of our high school program.

We have an "organizer" who has donated tractors, cash and even an entire baseball team. You heard right, an entire team! Of course, it was his Pony-ball team that had been together for years. Their first year of school ball they skipped the frosh level and went right to JV. This year, they're going straight to varsity. The kids one year ahead of them? You guessed right, they are on JV while these "child-stars" are going to varsity. So Bum, Jr. (the varsity ace) had better strike out everyone because he has an all-soph infield! (Just kidding, a couple of them are pretty good.)

The first year of Summer baseball after their freshman season, the child-stars got all new uniforms, four qualified coaches including the JV coach, and a 40-50 game schedule. The sophomores, including my younger boy, got the old uniforms, a 20-game schedule, a coach who I think played a year of high school ball, and who -- believe it or not its true -- took votes in the dugout on playing positions between innings. It got so bad the younger team was practicing on our varsity field while the older team was playing on the J.V. field.. even though it was just Summer ball and both teams were the same level.

So yea, there's politics at the J.V. level, and it can be pretty pathetic.

It never held back my older boy because he's a very good left-handed pitcher. But my younger boy, who's a real good pitcher in his own right, he's on J.V. this year. I'm glad. I don't want him around that crowd anyway. I tell him hang in there, keep working on your game. In the end, talent wins out.

I have never bought into the politics. I think the whole situation makes fools out of these organizers. Privately, it's p***** me off, but publicly I bite my tongue and move on.

Maybe I should have played politics like some of these other parents, maybe it would have helped my younger boy, but the truth is, I want both of my boys to concentrate on baseball.. focusing their energies on being a better ballplayer. In the long-run, you gotta play ball, your daddy can't help you!

What exactly is the point of JV anyway? Our JV team is treated like dirt, yet we have some very strong players who will be the core of the Varsity soon. Why do some coaches feel such a loyality to uppperclassmen ?

The only thing you can do is what we do, treat high school ball as ****** free practice for a couple of months and wait for real baseball which costs money and takes place in the summer and fall. Just found out from by kid his coach does not believe in batting practice so they don't hit except softtoss and does not believe in hitting ground balls to the first basemen, so they don't practice them, among other stupid things, never seizes to amaze me.

quote:

I watched this JV team play the other day and (I) was stunned by the lack of talent on the part of the catcher who beat out the kid whom I know.

Here's the problem,....
" I " watched this jv team,..and " I " was stunned by the lack of talent...

These are your observations and opinions,...not the coaches.
Its the COACH who gets to pick his team.

I am not saying your observations are wrong,....or doubting your ability to see and know good talent ( or poor talent ) its just that unfortunately they dont count when it comes to who makes this team.

Thats why you get to coach your own team!

Different coaches pick kids for different reasons.
Maybe the athlete that you refer to had a bad tryout. (???)
Maybe the coach is indeed playing a political card/game. (???)
I dont know.
But things like this happen everywhere, in every aspect of life.
...and sometimes it just plain STINKS!
Other times, it can lead a kid to a different path which just might have an amazing outcome.

I'm sad for your former player.
I hope he finds a way to overcome this and continues to play!!

I think in most programs the upperclassmen get the better fields and the new uniforms.
It is a huge privelage to make a varsity team for some and to earn their letters.
As far as politics I think there is not much you can do but have your player continue to get better and play well enough where politics or not they will have a hard time not making the line up.

READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!
There will never be agreement on this issue. Just read the previous posts from the above referenced thread.

I have to say from experience the travel ball players get first preference if the coach is also their JV coach. This is similar to what is happening on our current JV team. Because you play travel ball does not mean you are a better player then the next guy who does not. Trust me I have coached and seen it. Just like one of the coaches told me years ago. If your parents can afford travelball, play it.

quote:

Originally posted by themez:
I have to say from experience the travel ball players get first preference if the coach is also their JV coach.

That's a very stereotypical and ignorant post. Get a clue.

themez,
With all due respect,....I haveta' hand it to ya, you, being a new poster you have been on here all day and have kicked up quite a bunch of dust in one morning/afternoon.

I hope you are here for the right reasons.
If so, keep posting.

It's amazing how many people get on this forum and say something like "my friend's kid", or "my son's best friend", or "my friend's neighbor's cousin's teammate", or "it doesn't affect my kid, but his teammates are getting a raw deal." Are there really that many concerned friends of friends, uncles, aunts, teammates' parents, etc who are legitimately concerned enough about this topic to come on here and spout off on behalf of a distant friend or relative? Is this really code speak for "my kid got cut, so I need to some justification and sympathy, rather than accept the fact that he just isn't a very good player?"

AMEN AMEN !!!

My son is a freshman in a large classification high school. He had a very good tryout. He went 3-4 and pitched a shutout innning with 2 K's. He doubled of a starting varsity pitcher. He struck out two returning starters. My son outperformed several of the returning players from a weak team. He was cut from the varsity to JV at the end of tryouts.

I believe the coach made a very sound decision. There may be three or four freshmen and sophomores who are better than some of the seniors. But being better than weak players doesn't mean a freshman or a soph is ready to compete against the best players on other teams.

Either way the coach goes with his roster, the varsity is very likely to have a losing season. If some of the seniors fall on their faces, younger players will get called up without parents of seniors whining their kids got stiffed in their big year from the start of the season. My son was told he could be called up by midseason to play second, third or pitch. He was told he's the likely starter at short next year. I'd say my son placed himself high on the coach's radar screen. It's good enough for a freshman.

If a freshman makes the team in the beginning of the season and fails all season, where is he mentally? If he starts well on JV, gets called up to varsity and finds it difficult, the coach can tell him what he experienced is what he needs to be prepared for next year.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
My son is a freshman in a large classification high school. He had a very good tryout. He went 3-4 and pitched a shutout innning with 2 K's. He doubled of a starting varsity pitcher. He struck out two returning starters. My son outperformed several of the returning players from a weak team. He was cut from the varsity to JV at the end of tryouts.

I believe the coach made a very sound decision. There may be three or four freshmen and sophomores who are better than some of the seniors. But being better than weak players doesn't mean a freshman or a soph is ready to compete against the best players on other teams.

Either way the coach goes with his roster, the varsity is very likely to have a losing season. If some of the seniors fall on their faces, younger players will get called up without parents of seniors whining their kids got stiffed in their big year from the start of the season. My son was told he could be called up by midseason to play second, third or pitch. He was told he's the likely starter at short next year. I'd say my son placed himself high on the coach's radar screen. It's good enough for a freshman.

If a freshman makes the team in the beginning of the season and fails all season, where is he mentally? If he starts well on JV, gets called up to varsity and finds it difficult, the coach can tell him what he experienced is what he needs to be prepared for next year.

Just curious, how fast did your son run his 60? Since "Run the 60 yard dash" is always the first event during a tryout, I wonder if this is part of the reason he didn't make the Varsity team.

I didn't ask him about his time. I only asked how it went each day. He's fast. He ran a 4.8 forty in football in 8th grade when he was 5'4". He's faster now. He's also very strong on the bases. He didn't make it because he's a freshman. He didn't throw so hard or hit the ball so far he was a "have to keep." He'll have to wait for some seniors to fail.

quote:

He'll have to wait for some seniors to fail.

RJM I just gotta say this. I've always pretty much agreed with your posts. You seem to know what you're talking about and have a very level head concerning your son and his abilities. He sounds awesome.

However, it really bugs me when people wait for others to "fail" so that their son can get his chance. From the looks of it, your son will succeed without others failing.

I write from the point of view of a mom whose young son made varsity when his bigger, stronger, but not better, classmates did not. Some of their parents were certain that it was politics, and couldn't wait for 2B to fail. He had some rough days but fail he did not. Mentally, he is stronger. This year, a couple of their sons joined him on varsity. Not because he failed, but because some seniors graduated and they earned their spots.

I didn't kick up any dust. Sometimes people hate to hear the truth. I can tell you right now 5 players on our JV team played travel ball and they all start. Their TB coach is our JV coach.

quote:

However, it really bugs me when people wait for others to "fail" so that their son can get his chance. From the looks of it, your son will succeed without others failing.

He's been told if some players don't get the job done he'll be called up. I equate "don't get the job done" with failure. The worst case scenario is he's been told he's in the pole position for shortstop next year.

I don't know if you misinterpreted my post. I'm not the least bit upset he didn't make varsity from the start. I believe putting himself on the radar screen as he did was a great accomplishment for a freshman in a large classification school.

hes only a freshman. he'll pay more on JV

Sorry, RJM. I didn't misinterpret - you just struck a nerve - recalling the vultures standing around waiting for 2B to fail so that they could pounce on his spot, rather than working their butts off like he did to get there in the first place. I doubt your son is like that!

Besides, if he weren't at this small school, he'd be playing JV at the 6A school in our district - with all the guys on his travel team.

quote:

his bigger, stronger, but not better, classmates did not.

These were seniors, not classmates. He's a freshman. I don't have an issue with the decision. If he was touching 85 rather than 80 he would have made the pitching staff. I believe as a freshman it's important to be noticably better than juniors and seniors.

As a middle infielder, he's not going to replace returning senior starters at second and short. He was told he may get a shot at third or second later in the season. I'll guess the second baseman may get moved back to his old position if someone else doesn't pan out.

quote:

Sometimes people hate to hear the truth.

Ain't THAT the truth!

quote:

I can tell you right now 5 players on our JV team played travel ball and they all start. Their TB coach is our JV coach.

And your point being????

Perhaps they start because they are the better players. (?)
Is that such an impossibility?

i just had a dad tell all the parents on the team that "if you're kid is a sophomore and on JV, your kid has no chance to make it to college I hate to tell you. So don't get your hopes up on what a peon like a high school coach might say positive about your kid. It doesn't matter because your son won't be playing at the next level". He acted like he was dead-serious. Pretty tragic. Mind you, he said this to all the parents who have sophomores on JV so it depressed a bunch of parents and they asked the HS coach if that was true and the HS coach said it would be rare to have a sophomore play JV and make it to college ball, but it does happen. So you see, the coach was more optimistic than the glass half-empty parent.

quote:

if you're kid is a sophomore and on JV, your kid has no chance to make it to college I hate to tell you

A college prospect doesn't have to be good for three or four years. He has to be good one year in front of the right people.

quote:

Originally posted by themez:
I didn't kick up any dust. Sometimes people hate to hear the truth. I can tell you right now 5 players on our JV team played travel ball and they all start. Their TB coach is our JV coach.

With such ridiculously ignorant comments, how can anyone take you seriously?

quote:

Originally posted by shortstopmom:

quote:

Sometimes people hate to hear the truth.

Ain't THAT the truth!

quote:

I can tell you right now 5 players on our JV team played travel ball and they all start. Their TB coach is our JV coach.

And your point being????

Perhaps they start because they are the better players. (?)
Is that such an impossibility?

I can tell you right they aren't. and yes they are starting because they are butt buddies with the coach. Your too optomistic.

quote:

Perhaps they start because they are the better players. (?)
Is that such an impossibility?

Agree, shortstopmom. We had two travel teams my son's age in our area. They are now spread out among five high schools - 3A-6A, and one private HS. Every single one of them is playing either JV or varsity as a freshman.

quote:

Originally posted by KnightTime:

quote:

Originally posted by themez:
I didn't kick up any dust. Sometimes people hate to hear the truth. I can tell you right now 5 players on our JV team played travel ball and they all start. Their TB coach is our JV coach.

With such rediculously ignorant comments, how can anyone take you seriously?

You don't know what your talking about.
Your making assumptions. I have the facts.
Your ignorant

I guess I'll tell my son to give up. He won't play in college because he's a soph on JV throwing low eighties but he might as well quit now. What kind of baloney is that?

quote:

Originally posted by switchitter:
i just had a dad tell all the parents on the team that "if you're kid is a sophomore and on JV, your kid has no chance to make it to college I hate to tell you. So don't get your hopes up on what a peon like a high school coach might say positive about your kid. It doesn't matter because your son won't be playing at the next level". He acted like he was dead-serious. Pretty tragic. Mind you, he said this to all the parents who have sophomores on JV so it depressed a bunch of parents and they asked the HS coach if that was true and the HS coach said it would be rare to have a sophomore play JV and make it to college ball, but it does happen. So you see, the coach was more optimistic than the glass half-empty parent.

This is exactly why you don't listen to the nonsense that is spewed in the stands. It's crazy for a parent, or coach for that matter, to say a sophomore's college chances are nil if he doesn't make varsity. That is one of the dumbest comments I have ever heard.

We rarely have sophs playing varsity in our program. Why? because we have an exceptionally strong and successful HS program. Year in and year out, our varsity guys are for the most part Juniors and Seniors, with maybe one or two sophs tops. Weaker schools in our area have freshmen and sophomores playing varsity all the time. Does that mean those younger kids will have a better chance to play in college? No, it means those teams are weak in upper class talent, and they have no choice but play frosh and sophs on varsity. In no way does playing varsity at a young age determine who plays college or not. In fact, I just counted, and only 3 of 15 alums we currently have playing college ball played varsity as a sophomore.

Ask any college coach if he cares whether or not a recruit played varsity as a sophomore. Of course not. He cares about how good the player is, regardless of his varsity experience.

bb1 Your son will be playing in college. They don't know what they are talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by themez:
hes only a freshman. he'll pay more on JV

Do they charge younger kids more money to play on JV? How much does it cost to play on varsity? Talk about politics...