Sorry for the bad grammer,there and their and my question mark. Hard to type all that on a phone.

Also for got, he is 5 10" and 165 if that matters.

pdogg1 posted:

...He can throw a ball over the outfield wall from homeplate on a 400 ft field. ...

You sure on this one?  If we're gonna help, we're gonna need accurate information.

Can you post video on here? I will be glad to do that. But for arguments sake we will say 365.

A 7.7 60 will only get him on the field as a 1B or C.  Maybe a 3B at a mid major or low level D1, and that's only if he can really hit

So far he projects as a corner infield guy or pitcher.  There is literally not a single college team that needs a 7.7 60 guy in the outfield or middle infield.

Thank you! I know he needs to work on that and is with a trainer.

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

Sure, you can post video.  Please do. 

But, "for arguments sake", there is a huge difference between 365' and 400'.  "For arguments sake", throwing the ball from home plate over a 400' fence, based on physics, would require that he throw the ball roughly 109 MPH+ and, to my knowledge, this has never been done.  Even throwing over a 365' fence would translate to about 100 MPH+ throwing velo.

Look, if you are not trolling and are serious with your inquiry, you can find a ton of helpful info here, but you gotta keep it real or it won't help your son any.  Be aware that you can also search past threads here by topic and there is an enormous library's worth of valuable information for "this recruiting stuff" that can help you and your son (if actually your son and not you) tremendously.  

Not sure about the physics part, but i will try to get a video posted at his highschool field for you to see.

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

Few brain dumps

• measurables are very good for a freshman, other than his 60
• if he continues to improve, he has D1 potential 
• if money is an issue, spending a lot at 15 and 16 won’t get you much from a recruiting perspective.  Can be a time to trim and save.
• come up with a game plan for the next 2 years
• create a list of schools that fit academically (all Div, not just D1), start your correspondence with coaches, plan on what camps you want to attend, etc 

• Lastly you have time, so focus on improvement, not getting recruited at 15 or 16

For the record, my son played Legion at 15 and 16 (no travel ball) and we went the camp route.  Received multiple offers.  If you read archived posts, you will see many feel camps are nothing but money makers.  If you plan and choose wisely, that’s not necessarily the case.

Others will need to provide more input on showcases and travel teams.  But if you go that route, you still need to plan and contact coaches.  Most of the time they come to look for players they’ve already been in contact with.  Rarely are they sitting around a low/mid level showcase and find a diamond in the rough.

Good luck!

I don’t believe there’s a major leaguer who can stand at home plate and threw a ball over the center field fence (see other post about distance and velocity). If your son has this kind of ability you don’t have to ask what to do. All the top travel teams would be pursuing him. On the flip side 7.7 doesn’t match up real well with 5’10” 165 as a position player.

85 max as a freshman is D1 potential despite his size and weight. Does his high school coach have contacts with travel coaches? How tall are you? How tall is his mother?

We (the board) need some real information to help.

in general, you need to create a business plan with him ...

You need baseball knowledgeable people to tell you where he potentially fits as a baseball prospect. Based on this decide what conferences he could compete as a player. Then within each conference determine which schools are a baseball, academic, social and cultural fit. Don’t worry how large your list gets. He will rule out some schools as he investigates further. Some schools won’t be interested in him. The list will narrow naturally.

Then, you need to figure out how to get him in front of these schools. It’s a combination of being on the right team for tournaments and attending the right showcases. On a quality travel team the coaching staff has credibility with college coaches and contacts. They can presell your son with phone calls (I have a player you need to check out).

You can also email head coaches and the assistant in charge of recruiting expressing interest in the program, the college and ask where to get in front of them. They will put you on a mailing list for camps. Do not attend camps unless they’re prospect camps. Make sure you have the correct email addresses. A number of coaches move each year. Some email sources don’t keep their lists up to date. 

Attend college games at various levels. Typically you can sit up close and see the speed of the game. Your son has to ask himself if he believes he can handle what he sees.

Create an email account just for recruiting. Create a recognizable name like firstnamelastname.highschoolclassyear@gmail. If he plays for a recognized national travel program use their name instead of the high school name.

Set up some kind of database to track all contacts by date and reminders for next contact.

 

 

He is already taller than both his parents. May be the milk man's! He has been training with a trainer since age 12 and has packed on 55 pounds. He has to take a crow hop to throw it like that, but i will try to get a video of him so people can see. He has been to 5 or 6 showcases and has not been out thrown once. He plays travel for 5 star. He does not have any issues finding someone to let him play. What 60 time does he need to shoot for for infield and outfield. I think he should actually be a 2023 because of his age. Like i said, he just turned 15, 2 weeks ago.  I was just looking for the best way to get him seen without wasting money. I beleive working on his running and practice is better than 15 and 16 showcase. 

Corner infielders and outfielders get recruited if they can mash. Middle infielders and center fielders get recruited running sub seven 60’s. It’s not uncommon for a college program to recruit mostly middle infielders and center fielders (outside of pitchers and catchers) and move them to corner positions. A friend’s son became an all SEC, All American shortstop drafted in the first round. Freshman year he played first. The big thing position players have to do is hit.

A big arm is mostly likely going to draw interest as a pitcher. Given yours throws 109 he’s likely going to be a pitcher.

RJM posted:

I don’t believe there’s a major leaguer who can stand at home plate and threw a ball over the center field fence (see other post about distance and velocity).

 

. . . Unless he's in London 

I will try to get you guys a video tomorrow if its not raining so you can see for yourself. Besides that, i just want the specifics on recruiting and what it takes to get where he wants to go.

Just FYI, saw this chart at a baseball facility -- top is velo and bottom is long toss distance. 365 feet equates to 95+

I very much appreciate that. We will try for the video tomorrow.

Welcome to the site. The best thing you can do to get exposure to college scouts is to play on the best travel team you can find. The good travel programs have coaches who have contacts at colleges, and they take their teams to the tourneys where they know the scouts will be. Look for an organization that has a history of getting kids commitments. Tryouts for next years summer travel teams are coming up over the next month, so start researching tryout dates immediately. Once he's on a good travel team, narrow down his college choices to schools that fit his academic and athletic ability. Ultimately, he should choose a school he would want to attend even if he wasn't playing baseball. 

You already have his measurables from PBR. Therefore, I wouldn't spend any more money on showcases or camps at this point. Instead, spend that money on strength/speed training and good hitting instruction. One of the common pieces of advice on this site regarding showcases is "don't showcase until you have something to show." The exception being if you have the extra money to spend and you want to document his steady progress each year. If PBR is good in your state, and he wants to go to college near home, don't waste your money on PG showcases. 

There is more specific advice available on this site about certain types of schools such as high academic schools. I second the recommendation that you search old threads. I spent weeks researching old threads on here when I found the site. Feel free to ask questions, but you will learn more by researching the site first for general info, and then asking specific questions. 

He attends early college with a 3.9 in all honors and weighted courses. Are even the college prospect ID camps not worth it to go?

If money and time are no object, there isn't any harm in doing camps at schools that fit both his academic and baseball level. However, many people on here will tell you that the prospect camps are mainly for coaches to check in on players that are already committed, or to see players who they are interested in and they have personally invited to the camp. That being said, there are also stories of kids who went to camps and got noticed. If you are looking to get the biggest bang for your buck, camps are the least effective means of getting seen because its usually only that school's coaches and maybe a few other lower level schools in the area. Attending the big tourneys and specific showcases where he can be seen by multiple schools at the same time will get him the most exposure.  

Would a coach returning an email invite to the camp be considered a true invite or just an generic email to get you there for money?

pdogg1 posted:

Would a coach returning an email invite to the camp be considered a true invite or just an generic email to get you there for money?

Many times, when you write to a coach showing interest, they will send a camp invite.  It's pretty routine for them to do so.  Is it an invite?  Of course it is, but unless it's personalized, it doesn't really mean a lot.  Players should do their best to establish some sort of communication with the coach, before attending a camp.  You want to be on his radar.  like others, I believe you have nothing to lose by attending a camp of a school you are interested in.  However, I would not break the bank to do so at a school far away unless there was some genuine articulated interest by the coaches.  But if it's a local camp, and the price is right (usually between $100-$250), then it might be a good opportunity to be exposed to a college coaching staff, facilities, coaching, etc.  There are schools (mostly D3s) that do end up with players on their team that attended their camp.  It just depends on the school.  Many times, they will tell you how many players were signed from last year's camp.

If your son sends emails to many teams, expect many camp invites.  Yes, they are money makers for the schools, but that doesn't mean they are not good experiences for the boys.  Hope this helps.

pdogg1 posted:

He attends early college with a 3.9 in all honors and weighted courses. Are even the college prospect ID camps not worth it to go?

Of all the camps my son attended, the Headfirst was the best, in my opinion.  It's not cheap.  When we went it was $1,000, but if your son is a high academic kid, there are coaches from many elite schools there and many if not all of the Ivys.  The coaches are also on the field and in the dugout with the players.  I saw a lot of interaction between the players and coaches.  I believe PG also has a showcase for high academic kids, but my son did not attend that one, so I cant give an opinion.  

Does paying $1,000 to attend one of these prospect camps guarantee your son will leave with an offer? No. 

So, if my son sent out emails with his measurables and got a response with his name personalised from both the head coach and assistant head coach, there may be something to it?

pdogg1 posted:

So, if my son sent out emails with his measurables and got a response with his name personalised from both the head coach and assistant head coach, there may be something to it?

Most responses will include yoyr son's name.  The schools have programs that spit out hundreds of email invites, with the players' names.  Not trying to be negative nancy.  Im just saying it's not uncommon for a school to send a camp invite with the players name who had written to them.  This does not mean the school is actively recruiting you.  The type of personalized email I am talking about would go something like this. 

Hi John,

"Thanks for reaching out to us and for sharing your information and video.  Sunnyland College is actively recruiting pitchers for the 2022 class.  Below please find our prospect camp information.  We hope you can attend so we can evaluate you in person.  What does your summer schedule look like?  Please let me know what tournaments you will be playing in.  I would like to see you in a game if possible.  Take care and keep in touch.  You can reach me at 202-111-2323.

This would be the type of email, with that little extra umph that indicates they are interested.

Also, remember, recruiting rules forbid coaches from responding to emails unless your son is an incoming Junior.  There are certain dates when they can start responding to his emails.  Before that, they are basically only allowed to send you camp information.  So you wont really be able to know how interested they are until then.  However, if your son is a stud, they will find ways to communicate with him that are within the rules.  One such way is by calling your coach.  

Coaches do not send personalized camp invitations to their camps with a phone number requesting you call off a blind email. The program sends a form letter that looks very personalized. My dog once received what looked like a personalized camp invite after I filled out an online recruiting form in his name. I was trying to prove a point to a parent who thought their potential D2 prospect son was being recruited by one of the top D1 programs in the country.

If the coach has seen the player perform, he’s impressed and then the player makes contacts the coach might provide his phone number. If the player is previously recommended as a “must see” by a reliable baseball contact the coach might include his phone number. If the player is a huge local name the coach may be aware of him and provide his phone number.

But coaches do not provide their phone number to blind contacts. 

RJM posted:

I don’t believe there’s a major leaguer who can stand at home plate and threw a ball over the center field fence (see other post about distance and velocity). If your son has this kind of ability you don’t have to ask what to do. All the top travel teams would be pursuing him. On the flip side 7.7 doesn’t match up real well with 5’10” 165 as a position player.

 

I saw one come very close.  I saw (my own eyes) Jackie Bradley Jr throw from the warning track in CF (375' at Petersburg Sports Complex in VA) to home plate when he was a rising high school senior.   This is why nobody runs on JBJ today.  He's got a hose.   

 

pdogg1 posted:

Would a coach returning an email invite to the camp be considered a true invite or just an generic email to get you there for money?

You will know which coaches have genuine interest, as they will no longer be emailing your son.  Rather, they will text or call.  Your son is too young for this to happen, both by age and NCAA rules.

Again, focus on getting better and start formulating the type of school your son may want to go to, i.e. size, location, academics, etc. 

You have time, he was 14 less than a month ago!  If he's a P5 talent, you will know it and next summer will be busy.  If he's a mid-D1, the summer of his rising senior year is when offers will come in.

RJM posted:

Coaches do not send personalized camp invitations to their camps with a phone number requesting you call off a blind email. The program sends a form letter that looks very personalized. My dog once received what looked like a personalized camp invite after I filled out an online recruiting form in his name. I was trying to prove a point to a parent who thought their potential D2 prospect son was being recruited by one of the top D1 programs in the country.

If the coach has seen the player perform, he’s impressed and then the player makes contacts the coach might provide his phone number. If the player is previously recommended as a “must see” by a reliable baseball contact the coach might include his phone number. If the player is a huge local name the coach may be aware of him and provide his phone number.

But coaches do not provide their phone number to blind contacts. 

Don't be so quick to say "NEVER" RJM.  It's a strong word and it's a bit dissmisive. Coaches DO communicate with players and DO provide phone numbers when they are interested in a player.  I know from personal experience with my son.  A phone number is not a social security number.  It's a phone number.  My son received more than a few emails with coaches sharing their number.  Why is that so unbelievable to you? An invite to a camp, a request to share a schedule, and sharing a phone number happened in our world.  That's our reality.  You are not a "blind contact" when the coach has taken the time to review the players video, summer stats, grades, test scores, etc.  I will admit this did not happen at the D1 level, but it happened more than a few times with regard to coaches at the D3 level.

 

See the current "pitcher vs. catcher" thread for an example of a coach inviting a player to a camp.

If you get a camp invite and are not sure, you can reply to the coach (email, or phone) and say that the date of the camp is not possible for you, but you'd like to get in front of the coach some other way or time.  You'll then find out how personal the first email was.

The age rules for contact simply mean that if a coach is really interested in a kid who is below the allowed contact age, he will contact the travel coach to set up a call or camp.  That's also how you'll know.

He has good numbers for a freshman. 5'10 165 and a 7.7 just makes him a below average runner. Trimming a full second off that is going to be tough if not impossible. Just has to do with fast switch muscle fibers. I would scrap the OF unless there are some dramatic improvements over the next year. Other than that, he seems to be in a good position. If anything is going to happen it will most likely be next summer. Don't worry about the camps and the showcases too much right now. There are only about 20-30 schools looking for 2022s right now. If they haven't shown interest in him yet, it's not happening right now. 

You said he plays for 5 Star. Does he play for their top team? If he does then he needs to sit down with the coach and have a serious conversation about how he should be moving forward. If not, get him on the top team because he has the measurables for that team. 

If the coach isn't much of a help start sending out emails with the subject line - Joe Smith 2022 RHP/IF. 5'11 85mph Team 5 Star National -. Search the board and you will find plenty on what to put in the email. Save your money until you need it, no need to spend recklessly when it isn't going to happen. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AnpKBxr9AM

He's about 12 feet up the line but here is Bradley putting the ball over the 20 ft wall in center. He has one of the strongest arms in baseball. 

PABaseball posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AnpKBxr9AM

He's about 12 feet up the line but here is Bradley putting the ball over the 20 ft wall in center. He has one of the strongest arms in baseball. 

As a Red Sox fan I’ve seen Bradley make some incredible throws. But he throws 103 from the outfield. The poster alleges his 15yo son throws 109 assuming he can stand at home and throw it over the CF fence.

Since the advent of Statcast the highest recoded MLB outfield throw is 105.5 by Aaron Hicks.

If the poster wants help from the board he’s going to have to deal in reality. Saying he throws 87 from the outfield and can throw it over the CF fence doesn’t correlate.

His stated Of velocity and mound velocity correlate. At his age hitting 85 on the mound he’s probably a genuine D1 pitching prospect. Unless he’s hitting bombs a 7.7 sixty doesn’t work for a position player. Keep in mind the poster said he’s already bigger than dad. Unless mom is 5’7”/5’8” the kid is probably done or close to done growing.

PDogg said...

"I would just like someone to point me in the right direction on what to do as far as getting him exposure. He does showcases for individuals now and plays on a good travel team. Only problem is that it gets really expensive to go to all the majors. Is that even necessary, because you never know what schools come. Is it just best to contact the schools he likes and do there camp? Any help would greatly be appreciated." ...

"What 60 time does he need to shoot for for infield and outfield. I think he should actually be a 2023 because of his age. Like i said, he just turned 15, 2 weeks ago.  I was just looking for the best way to get him seen without wasting money. I beleive working on his running and practice is better than 15 and 16 showcase. "

Keep it simple.  Go back and read the first posts from Zia2021 and CTballdad.  Best course of action at this early stage is to provide resources that will best allow him to properly develop his skill set, strength and speed & agility and allow him to continue to play against the best competition he can, but where he gets plenty of PT.  He has some tools but to what extent they will be developed and how well he learns to use them will ultimately determine what level he can play.  

Start developing a target school list based on other things that you and he may already know... Does he have a desired major?  Does family budget dictate in-state state schools?  Is there a strong preference toward religious, non-religious environment?  Does he flourish better in big school or small?  Big city or country?  etc.

Forget about the "actually should be a 2023" thought process.  It is what it is and no one will care going forward.  Either he is a player or not.  

Because he is involved in travel, he will get bombarded with camp invites.  Many colleges are getting very good at making them look personalized.  Simple.  Have him call the coaches and ask about specifics they like about him and where they see him fitting in the program.  No response or courteous generalizations will tell you what you need to know.  Be aware that camps are 98% there as money makers for the program and volunteer coaches.  Generally, camps are most effective for the player only as a follow-up to already established dialog with a school.  There can be rare exceptions if you show up with a big tool bag.

As he develops his skill set and starts to define his target schools, utilize qualified advocates to both guide him to the proper level and speak on his behalf to targeted schools.  Continue to play in events and showcases, choosing them carefully based on the likely audience.

Meanwhile, be sure that he and you both fully enjoy the HS experience.  Don't be so consumed with the recruiting process that you let that special time get by you.

60 time necessary is a bit of a sliding scale, depending on position, power numbers, etc., but you are right to put some extra focus on improving that area.  That said, if his arm strength continues to be the best tool and he ultimately ends up as a P in college, the 60 matters a whole lot less.

RJM posted:

PABaseball posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AnpKBxr9AM

He's about 12 feet up the line but here is Bradley putting the ball over the 20 ft wall in center. He has one of the strongest arms in baseball. 

As a Red Sox fan I’ve seen Bradley make some incredible throws. But he throws 103 from the outfield. The poster alleges his 15yo son throws 109 assuming he can stand at home and throw it over the CF fence.

Since the advent of Statcast the highest recoded MLB outfield throw is 105.5 by Aaron Hicks.

If the poster wants help from the board he’s going to have to deal in reality. Saying he throws 87 from the outfield and can throw it over the CF fence doesn’t correlate.

His stated Of velocity and mound velocity correlate. At his age hitting 85 on the mound he’s probably a genuine D1 pitching prospect. Unless he’s hitting bombs a 7.7 sixty doesn’t work for a position player. Keep in mind the poster said he’s already bigger than dad. Unless mom is 5’7”/5’8” the kid is probably done or close to done growing.

Agreed. I was using it to say that one of the strongest arms in all of baseball can barely do it. 

RJM posted:

R Alvarez posted:

RJM posted:

Coaches do not send personalized camp invitations to their camps with a phone number requesting you call off a blind email. The program sends a form letter that looks very personalized. My dog once received what looked like a personalized camp invite after I filled out an online recruiting form in his name. I was trying to prove a point to a parent who thought their potential D2 prospect son was being recruited by one of the top D1 programs in the country.

If the coach has seen the player perform, he’s impressed and then the player makes contacts the coach might provide his phone number. If the player is previously recommended as a “must see” by a reliable baseball contact the coach might include his phone number. If the player is a huge local name the coach may be aware of him and provide his phone number.

But coaches do not provide their phone number to blind contacts. 

Don't be so quick to say "NEVER" RJM.  It's a strong word and it's a bit dissmisive. Coaches DO communicate with players and DO provide phone numbers when they are interested in a player.  I know from personal experience with my son.  A phone number is not a social security number.  It's a phone number.  My son received more than a few emails with coaches sharing their number.  Why is that so unbelievable to you? An invite to a camp, a request to share a schedule, and sharing a phone number happened in our world.  That's our reality.  You are not a "blind contact" when the coach has taken the time to review the players video, summer stats, grades, test scores, etc.  I will admit this did not happen at the D1 level, but it happened more than a few times with regard to coaches at the D3 level.

 

You must have a reading comprehension problem. Or you see what you want to see and not what is written. Your response is completely irrelevant to my post stating coaching do not make their phone number available to blind contacts. I explained they would have to be interested in some manner.

When you get down to the mediocre and doormat D3’s who are desperate the procedures might be different. Baseball may be so irrelevant at these schools they don’t have a recruiting budget. But not many players want to play for a doormat at the lowest level? 

By the way, did you lose some letters in your name? Check the lost and found.

As I have said before, any player who is able to play college baseball, at any level, should be applauded.  Any coach who leads his players and inspires them to be great people in the game of life, should be applauded.  i don't understand what your fascination is in trying to put down D3 schools all the time.  Again, my son did receive emails from coaches (not just standard camp invites) providing their numbers, asking him to call if he had any questions.  Others emailed him asking when was a good time for them to call my son.  These schools were high academic schools that were not as you say, "doormats."  They were not "irrelevant."  They did have recruiting budgets.  They didn't play at "the lowest level."

It would serve you well to read the sticky, "reminders of HSBaseballWeb Manners and More." I don't believe your response was consistent with the purpose and tone of this site.  Your response did not add anything to the conversation.  It was simply a low brow attack that has no place on here.  I will take the high road and chalk is up to you just having a bad day.  good luck from a newbie!

 

 

Rocky Alvarez posted:

RJM posted:

R Alvarez posted:

RJM posted:

 

 

 

Rocky (or R???), glad you have decided to take the high road with this post.  That has not been the case with you the last few days here and it hasn't just been directed toward RJM.  I don't know if the screen name change has anything to do with trying for a better start but that would be a good thing.

Clearly, RJM's reference to "mediocre", "doormat" and "playing at the lowest level" was in reference to the bottom half of D3 baseball programs, not a reflection of their academics.  While I agree with you that it is an accomplishment to play college level baseball at any level, he is technically correct that the lower level D3 programs are the lowest level of college baseball and the fact is that some of these programs can be beat by a decent HS team.  That certainly isn't a desirable scenario for most players aspiring to play college baseball.  (And, yes, there are certainly also some very good D3 baseball programs, just as with every level.)  It is important, also, to recognize that because D3 offers no athletic scholarship and because so many of these small colleges rely on boosting enrollment via "recruiting" as many athletes on to campus as possible to add to the tuition coffer, those coaches will quite often show more enthusiasm in "recruiting speak", responses to texts and emails and engagement in camp dialog.  It can be particularly difficult to decipher real interest in the player as a key contributor in the baseball program, even when they display these high levels of engagement prior to arrival on campus.  This is the other side of the coin that is important to also share with your readers as you advise with regards to the recruiting path, particularly as it relates to D3. 

i don't try to bash D3 or others that have JV teams but I remind parents that with those programs you have to ask a lot of questions about numbers and where they see their kid.  just my experience.  A lot of D3 schools have part of the coach's salary connected to how many players he gets on campus so there is a large incentive to bring guys on even if you never plan to use them.  Recruiting is a two way street and it is tough to know whether to trust coaches.  I remind people all the time that recruiting is about the coaches trusting the players and the players/families trusting the coach.  Both can get burnt and both can be very upright.  Hard to know what you are getting.  That is why it is important to do your just background checking.

Thanks Cabbage. You’re correct. I am not connecting the academic value of D3’s to D3 baseball bottom feeders.

A kid from our high school went to and played for Caltech. There’s certainly no way to criticize choosing to attend Caltech. In high school baseball the kid only got six mop up innings senior year of high school. He played Legion in the summer. In our area Legion is very mediocre ball.

The father is a real nice guy who understood his son’s fit in the high school program. He never commented on his son’s lack of playing time. I think he cheered harder for kids than their parents. I ran into him a couple of years ago. I asked him how getting pounded almost every game affected his son regarding baseball. He said the kid just loved playing that much. It was his chance to shine relative to the roster.

To each his own. Obviously a kid at Caltech isn’t sacrificing academics. But unless a player has pro potential my belief is you don’t sacrifice academics to play baseball. You don’t go to Whattamattah State over Brainiac U and suffer beatdown after beatdown just to say you played college ball.

Moderators have taken some actions behind the scenes yesterday and today, warning and reminding a couple of members about our community rules (Board Manners). I deleted RJM's reply above which I agree was inappropriate, but I see that it's been copied/quoted a few times.

Just a reminder: Please be respectful, especially TO new members who are still getting acquainted with our community, and if you ARE a new member, for the same reason. Thanks!