NIC15,quote:
“You seem to know it all”
The goal is to keep learning.
quote:
“have the advice for every one”
I normally stay out of the traditional mechanic posted arguments but jump in when a youth player or concerned parent asks for advice on these injurious mechanics, what they produce and why. I would like to see all youth players have a chance to see the information even if Dad does not want them to.
I realize this is new information and will cause consternation and thought, I see this as a positive.
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“I will not even bother to respond much to your answers”
How can you write this and then respond?
I want you to respond and also use your eyes and open mind.
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“But since you are so high on Mike Marshall”
While I do tend to like his honesty, transparency and theory it is the incredible outcomes that we have produced that make me so positive about his information, I believe he could deliver a better marketing campaign, maybe by charging?
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“here is a little info on his philosophies”
I will read and see if you understand what he is trying to convey!
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”It is obvious he developed these theories after his many years of pitching.”
This is false and completely without merit, You’re observations lead you to this bad information?
He developed his top half component while earning his doctorate studying the traditional mechanic and playing all while trying to eliminate upper half injuries.
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“This is a red flag. I would never take advice from a Coach who never practiced what he preached”
You may have something here but what he theorized first with the bottom half he actually performed tested when he retired and played in high level adult leagues for years.
Many people have performed Marshall’s Bottom half drive mechanism including all my youth pitchers and there are many High school players that are performing them, the problem is the only ones that are given a chance are rural kids and none of the suburb and city kids are handed the ball. One of Marshall’s personally trained pitchers actually played in MiLB AA last year, Hmmm, Marshall theorized the mechanic before he perfected it physically. This is a white flag not a red one because I give up, not!
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“If Dr. Marshall would have tried his techniques he would have found that his theories are useless”
You’re telling someone who has proven that the techniques work they are useless, think about it a minute, then shake yourself.
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”All of his videos are about preventing elbow injury”
This is absolutely false and with out merit, this bad information either means you have not witnessed one of his videos in completion or are just distorting the truth on porpose?
While the information on how the elbow works is voluminous it is only a small part of the pedagogy.
His mechanics eliminate all of the traditional injuries. Shoulder, elbow, back, hip, knee ankle, ligament, tendon, meniscus, muscle that in turn eliminates inflammation and the perceived fatigue that mystically now disappears that allows us to pitch every day.
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“He is saying through his many years of scientific study”
He can pretty much do this!
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“he found that during pitching”
This is what a good overhead-throwing kinesiologist does.
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“these small muscles around the elbow are being over developed”
This is absolutely false and with out merit, who gave you this bad information?
You have this backwards, the small muscles around the elbow he wants highly developed! and attains it with his overload drills.
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“causing restricted range of motion”
This is absolutely false and with out merit, who gave you this bad information?
Bone crashing causing deformation limits you’re elbows range of motion and this is where the pronation component comes in.
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“So his techniques are based on changing the pitching delivery”
Yes, do you think any body else is going to do it? They have had their shot and look where we are. This is what is “absurd”!
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“This would be like advising a Nascar driver to drive on only two wheels at a time to prevent wearing his tires out.”
No this would be like a comparing one form of left turn circuit baseball to another form of left turn circuit Nascar where they actually use the ball of the foot that in the words of.the now correct Ag19dad “moronic”.
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Where Dr. Marshall missed the boat was the revolution of baseball through Strength Training
He’s one of the ones that helped build the boat, the work that the Michigan state team of kinesiologists including one of it’s pioneers Prof. Heusner (the father of the ”sport specificity” tenet in exercise physiology) and Marshall were the first ones to describe the kinesiological actions of throwing and pitching, what are you talking about that ship has sailed.
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“He never mentions this new world of sport specific training because more than likely he doesn’t even know it exists”
His professors wrote the book on it, what are you talking about? The only reason you know the phrase is because of him! Here is one of my students getting as “sport specific” as it can get by overload training his pitching motion, see him throw the 6 lb. Ladies shot put, watch him isolate his Lat’s and triceps in this overload training portion of his interval training program.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY482B-MwN8Let me see what you think is “sport specific” and I will let you know if you have the meaning correct. I suspect you do not like many in the training field (rank novices and traditional) and think general weight training and light beginning rehab surgical tubing that Jack (J-bands) LeLane invented is Sport Specific when it is not.
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”What we have learned through strength training is that we can rebuild joint integrity”
This is absolutely false and with out merit, who told you this bad information
Joints are made of bone and the integrity (formation, solidity and range) once lost can never be gained back.
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“We can prevent over development in the small throwing arm muscle with a good joint integrity program.”
With you’re general non “sport specific” training that you use, you cannot control the compound nature of the over head throw in the overload realm, you’re mechanic is to injurious.
There is no such thing as over development with in the “sport specific” training regimen, only with in the isolate muscle drills the way you have been taught to train.
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“This way we do not need to degrade our performance as an athlete/pitcher to prevent injury.”
Performance only goes up when you get stronger sport specifically.
Performance goes up minimally from non sport specific training regimens, all highly educated performance coaches know these tenets and use them, only baseball is lagging in this information.
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”It is unfortunate that someone like Dr. Marshall believes in these absurd theories”
They are no longer theories for some and the only thing absurd is not being curious.
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“because he has brought a lot of good information to the pitching world”
I wonder if you have even gotten these right? I hope so for your son’s sake? What are some and don’t just give me one?
This quote is so apropos
“When baseball has been your whole life, you can't think about a future”
Ag19dad,quote:
“The heel never touches on sprinters, you'd better check your high speed video again”
The goal is to touch it less but touch it does! In this field there has been a ragging controversy about running barefooted because the way the Kenyans train where they barley touch the heel first so they perform the movement more efficiently but when they put shoes on they touch harder with their heel.
What you propose breaks another Kinesiological tenet “the Kinetic chain” where you must contract joint to joint with in the best pedal action of the foot. Asking it to do something it was not designed to do is a recipe for disaster, in this threads case it set up
Lateral twist in the knee that it cannot withstand.
Here is a diagram showing the timing and mass transfer.
Here is an image of the action
MTS,quote:
“YARDBIRD: NEWTON WOULD DISAGREE...WITH YOU!!!”
You’re yelling! Calm down, mechanics should not make you so upset, it makes it look like you have realized the negative information that you have passed on to Marshall through miss-understanding in the past and currently is controlling you’re emotions.
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”You can not push the earth...no human is strong enough”
Do not confuse inertia with strength!
Any inertia gained can be measured; pushing towards second actually affects the Earth.
Any inertia you have stopped can be measured, pushing towards home actually affects the Earth, ”Newton’s III Law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.”
It can be measured, this is a scientific fact. Physics do not change because you did not see the earth move.
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”Because pitchers can not push the earth”
Athletes do push the Earth. In the traditional pitching mechanic groin drive the Earth is pushed towards second then pushed towards home. We are trying to make it all push towards second base.
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“the mini collision on foot plant travels back up the hip and transfers through the core”
You are repeating your self and I have asked you before to explain your self but you then shut down and do not answer the question! How is this energy stored? What is the mechanism? Previously gained inertia then stopped long before the ball starts forwards has not been conserved for use with in the next contractions. This is a fact. Look at the slow mo of Lincecum his ball does not start towards home until he has come to a complete stop where many frames go by during his mid forearm transition
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“This is where Marshall's theories fall apart”
These are Newton’s theories used by Marshall and have not fallen apart; they have been miss-understood by you.
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“ If you were running and tried to throw an object with no pause or hesitation in your stride”
You would then be able to add the forwards inertia of the bodies mass to the overall release velocity number, if this mass has stopped before the ball is moving forwards it is now lost.
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“you could not throw that object as hard, as far, or as accurately as when compared to coming to a foot plant and throw”
All of my pitchers throw faster from the outfield because they can conserve their body’s mass inertia better than when on the mound.
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“You will find if your pitcher TM uses all of Marshall's tenets”
He would never be injured.
He would be able to pitch a full game every 3rd day or pitch both ends of a double header.
He would be able to pitch his pitch types more towards his center mass axis allowing him to throw them even more accurately and with more life (Yard speak for movement).
He would able to train and pitch competitively year round.
I can go on and on but then I have actually tested this material and know what it actually produces.
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“pronation does not belong to Marshall”
You cannot own an articulation! You can call it out as good, do you now understand this? I have explained it to you in 5 different ways in the past! It is just one component of the MTS. The Marshall Tenet Sum calls out many articulations.
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“TM's velocity and control will suffer as is typical of all of his pitchers”
He is closing in on 100 MPH and has 6 pitches, he just pitched his professional début and threw a 5-inning shut out, what planet are you on and quit rooting against this kid just because he performs Marshall tenets.
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“I think we may have seen a mixed Marshall pitcher on ABD on Monday”
You have tried this tack before and been busted, If you do not know the tenets, how can you understand what you are seeing, quit making up BS to support you’re hatred of a person.