I don't understand why you can't accept D3 as a positive baseball experience for those who play along with, from a pro prospect standpoint very few D3 players are offered the opportunity. Do you have a problem handling the truth?
So what is your point you are trying to make here RJM?
Stop the pointless postings! Contribute or leave a thread alone.
Stop the pointless postings! Contribute or leave a thread alone.
RJM,
I posted this in June of 2004!!!
"Do not underestimate the effort,dedication, and gratification that it takes to be considered as draftable from a DIII program. There were 12 draftees selected on June 7 and 8 from all of DIII baseball and I am pretty sure that each was a senior. Good scouts will find you but not all scouts will find you. Use the summer wood bat leagues to show both you can compete with wood and that you can compete with those playing DI. It does make a difference."
Since you would intentionally misrepresent in this thread that your son was subject to baseball "discrimination," it is understandable you would attempt to misrepresent my views.
I stated them in black and white in 2004!
I posted this in June of 2004!!!
"Do not underestimate the effort,dedication, and gratification that it takes to be considered as draftable from a DIII program. There were 12 draftees selected on June 7 and 8 from all of DIII baseball and I am pretty sure that each was a senior. Good scouts will find you but not all scouts will find you. Use the summer wood bat leagues to show both you can compete with wood and that you can compete with those playing DI. It does make a difference."
Since you would intentionally misrepresent in this thread that your son was subject to baseball "discrimination," it is understandable you would attempt to misrepresent my views.
I stated them in black and white in 2004!
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
What arrogance...baseball arrogance!!!
If you want to proudly climb in the sand box with RJM on the site, be my guest.
If you think I am going to apologize for any aspect of D3 baseball, think again.
Professional baseball and the draft is one, but not by any means the only measure of the quality of college life, college athletics and college baseball.
Why you and RJM are so worried and outraged about a thread like this one is beyond me.
Why you and RJM feel such a need to display your views on superiority, coupled with RJM's outrageous claims(later admitted to be erroneous) of discrimination against his son is beyond me.
RJM's comment, if true, that 50% of all DI players transfer is, in my opinion, a very sad commentary on DI baseball. For all of your argument using the draft to show the virtues of DI, the concept that 50% transfer is, in my view, a black mark which strongly balances any argument you can make about what the draft proves. College is about education first and baseball second in my opinion.
Finally, as an FYI, when I started on this site, a few years before this thread started, DIII baseball was largely unknown. One SEC parent like yourself posted in a thread where I mentioned schools like Rhodes, Millsaps, Trinity, and Emory with disdain..he had never heard of them and how good could the baseball be at schools like that.
When this thread started, what DIII offered and the exposure it provided was anything but well known.
But hey, your son plays in the SEC just like the poster who ridiculed DIII on this site in 2003, and who are we to suggest our son's can shine the shoes or hold the jock of such "superior" talent?
You really are incapable of sustaining a line of reasoning without resorting to personal attacks, aren't you?
Regarding arrogance: Have I ever said my son (who does not appear to be a pro prospect) is better than your son (who got drafted) or anyone else's son? No, the greatest arrogance on this site is demonstrated by people like you who seem to believe it is perfectly acceptable to impugn the academic legitimacy, character, and prudence of D1 players while insisting it is beyond the pale for me to objectively evaluate their unsupportable assertions of parity overlap among the divisions. I have NEVER ridiculed any player or school or division on this site, but you and your friends have no problem ridiculing divisions, schools, conferences, players, and parents who make choices you don't approve of. You have never met my son or me, but your arrogance allowed you to launch a sarcastic rant at his expense. You are the arrogant one here.
Regarding guilt by association with RJM: RJM and I have had pitched battles on a number of topics. Sometimes I agree with him. Sometimes I don't. But he gives as good as he gets, and we manage to disagree without bringing our kids into it. My points are not more or less true because RJM or anyone else happens to agree with them.
Regarding the subject of "apologizing for D3": Did I ever ask anyone to apologize for anything? I love D3. I thoroughly approve of schools who clearly put academics ahead of sports and don't let the athletics budget drive the train. I played D3 football at a very selective school. But I never pretended top D3 football schools were comparable to mid-major D1 football schools just because one of the D3's we played against happened to have a guy who went on to have a nice NFL career. I understood he was the exception and I was the rule. The notion that I somehow attacked D3's is another of your distortions.
Regarding my supposed belief in the virtues of D1: I never said D1 has any virtues other than the higher caliber of competition. In fact, I pointed out quite clearly a serious pitfall, one that could very well dissuade a talented player from choosing to play at a major conference school. Once again, you distort my views and respond to the distortion instead of what I said.
Regarding what other parents may or may not have said that ridiculed D3 schools: Sorry, but I have nothing to do with that if in fact it happened. Unfortunately, you're not the most reliable reporter, and I halfway suspect you're expanding the definition of ridicule to include not accepting your preposterous claims of equality at face value. But again, whether someone else nine years ago ridiculed your school has nothing to do with my debunking of your claim.
So congratulations. Every point you made was personal, fallacious, distorted, or erroneous. You just made my "life's too short list."
quote:Regarding arrogance: Have I ever said my son (who does not appear to be a pro prospect) is better than your son (who got drafted) or anyone else's son? No, the greatest arrogance on this site is demonstrated by people like you who seem to believe it is perfectly acceptable to impugn the academic legitimacy, character, and prudence of D1 players while insisting it is beyond the pale for me to objectively evaluate their unsupportable assertions of parity overlap among the divisions. I have NEVER ridiculed any player or school or division on this site, but you and your friends have no problem ridiculing divisions, schools, conferences, players, and parents who make choices you don't approve of. You have never met my son or me, but your arrogance allowed you to launch a sarcastic rant at his expense. You are the arrogant one here.
Let's start at this one.
Find one post in this thread or in my 10 years on this site where I have ridiculed a division, school, conference or player.
This is all pretty ironic.
On the D3 message boards I had an extended discussion with a group of former Chapman and SCIAC players. Their view was Chapman(a top D3 in Southern Ca) was equal to the caliber of Long Beach State, Loyola, and other mid level WCC DI programs.
That discussion was interesting because I was on the other side.
Now, somehow because I am of the view, because I have seen it, that some D3 players can play DI, even at the top levels of D1, I am being accused by you and the sandbox ally RJM of posting beliefs I have never said in 10 years on this site.
In just a few posts back I readily said D1 is superior play to D3.
If others who post here have a different view or belief, they are equally free to express their opinions and you are equally free to express yours.
I can appreciate your views that expressing support for D3 can done in ways which can be interpreted as a criticism and downgrading of D1.
I would like for you to appreciate that your comments might seem harsh and downgrading of D3.
Each exists and coexists with different opportunities, different recruiting rules and different elements.
As I have said before, if DI is not better, coaches and players get replaced. It is pretty plain and simple.
Other than that, each has benefits and each has drawbacks.
The goal on this site is to provide enough information for parents and players making decisions to have plentiful and accurate information to find a good "fit." That was the point of this thread many years ago. Recently...not so much.
I don't understand the need to "prove" DI is better. You only need to watch DI games and DIII games to know one is better. I also don't agree with attempting to make DIII something it isn't in terms of the level of baseball being played or the opportunity at the next level which DIII provides.
The same is true, as I posted a few comments back that DI isn't better than Milb ball. Low A is not better than AAA.
In reality, it is all pretty simple, I think when we talk baseball and not personalize.
I apologize to you for my doing that in my previous post.
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:quote:Originally posted by Jones fan:
Upper level D3 programs are competitive with mid-level d1 according to many players who made the jump and they should know.
This fable continues to be repeated with absolutely no evidence.
Let's look at some draft numbers that may shed some light on the subject of top D3's vs. "mid-major" D1.
Glad you could shed light this subject! I feel better
I know players who've played both and this is what they've said. I've read articles from players who've done both and back that opinion up. But they've just played both, and they clearly don't have your statistical knowledge, so what do they know? Right? My son's d3 school has beaten a major D1, and knocked off top ranked Juco's starting lineup with our second team, sent guys to the minors who are doing well. And many if not most of his team's starting lineup turned down offers from D1 schools and d2 schools. Several have gone the other direction and are/have walking/walked on to major D1 programs, but I'm sure they are all ignorant?Here's food for thought though. Might it possibly be that many d3 players at top programs could go higher but go D3 because they don't want to make a career out of baseball and therefore are not interested in playing summer ball or going through all of the effort it takes to get drafted and instead, they choose to focus on their future careers? Perhaps the draft isn't the greatest measure of the abilities of top D3 programs, although statistically, they do send a good amount to the minors. Could it be that many choose top D3 programs to have a shot at a championship rather than choose a D1 program out of the top 30 which will never ever even sniff a chance at a championship?
You can't swing a dead cat in our area of the country without hitting a minor league player who didn't make it and sacrificed education for the chance to make it in the bigs and missed and are really struggling in life. A lot of guys in our region are great players but don't want to go that route. Many could play college ball but don't have any desire to play after high school. Many players in the South have offers from Northern D1's but simply won't play in cold weather and prefer to choose a lower level to play, so they can stay in warm weather or give up ball all together. Many great players won't play if they can't get into their SEC or ACC dream school. In the South, football is king and going to a good football school often takes precedence over playing ball at a no name school with no football.
And could it possibly be that scouts prefer drafting D1 players over D2 and D3 players because of the prestige of D1? Scouts have told me that it is riskier for them to choose out of D1, not because the player is more likely to fail, but because they don't have the built in excuse if they do fail. And so good D2, D3 players might go unnoticed or undrafted simply because they are not D1? Clearly most scout's draft choices are misses, so they are far from perfect on their choices but as scouts have personally told me, it doesn't look as bad to their bosses if they simply missed on a D1 kid.
There you go again twisting words. I was generically discussing the discrimination cold weather position players deal with due to lack of reps compared to warm weather college prospects.quote:Since you would intentionally misrepresent in this thread that your son was subject to baseball "discrimination," it is understandable you would attempt to misrepresent my views.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:There you go again twisting words. I was generically discussing the discrimination cold weather position players deal with due to lack of reps compared to warm weather college prospects.quote:Since you would intentionally misrepresent in this thread that your son was subject to baseball "discrimination," it is understandable you would attempt to misrepresent my views.
Twisting even if the face of your own words can be your specialty.
You only twisted and retracted on "prejudcices" involving your son after JH called you on your assertion your son was "victimized" by "prejudice":
" quote:
Originally posted by J H:
quote:
It's surprising since your son grew up in a warm climate while mine is the one who has dealt with the prejudices regarding kids who grow up in cold weather.
What prejudices did your son have to deal with?
In specific my son didn't have to deal with any prejudices. But there are prejudices cold weather players have to deal with in scouting."
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...3481/m/957100235/p/5
Jones Fan,
Your triumphant declaration that your son's D3 beat a mid-major would have reflected better on your integrity if you had been honest enough to disclose that your son's D3 was a competitive D1 mid-major through the middle of the last decade.
A victory over a D1 school by a school going through the transition to D3 doesn't really shed any light on the general state of D3 competitiveness, does it? But you're not trying to be honest. And you're sure not trying to shed light. You're just trying to score points.
And guess what? You failed. Because your deceptive claim brings up the inconvenient fact that the competitive gulf between D3 and D1 is so big that the NCAA requires a FIVE YEAR transition to ratchet down. Anything less wouldn't be fair to the rest of the D3 schools. Hoist with your own petard. Beautiful.
It is marvelous to behold the knots you tie yourself into to maintain your faith. So far your only evidence is what anonymous former players and scouts allegedly told you, a few hypothetical theories to explain why so few D3 players go pro, and your deceptive example of a transition school maintaining a vestige of its competitiveness with its former division.
(And for the record, I am highly skeptical that scouts would admit to you they don't turn in appropriately glowing reports of D3 phenoms because they're afraid to take a professional chance. Too timid to do their job right, but bold enough to confide their dereliction to a dad? Right.)
You got anything real?
Your triumphant declaration that your son's D3 beat a mid-major would have reflected better on your integrity if you had been honest enough to disclose that your son's D3 was a competitive D1 mid-major through the middle of the last decade.
A victory over a D1 school by a school going through the transition to D3 doesn't really shed any light on the general state of D3 competitiveness, does it? But you're not trying to be honest. And you're sure not trying to shed light. You're just trying to score points.
And guess what? You failed. Because your deceptive claim brings up the inconvenient fact that the competitive gulf between D3 and D1 is so big that the NCAA requires a FIVE YEAR transition to ratchet down. Anything less wouldn't be fair to the rest of the D3 schools. Hoist with your own petard. Beautiful.
It is marvelous to behold the knots you tie yourself into to maintain your faith. So far your only evidence is what anonymous former players and scouts allegedly told you, a few hypothetical theories to explain why so few D3 players go pro, and your deceptive example of a transition school maintaining a vestige of its competitiveness with its former division.
(And for the record, I am highly skeptical that scouts would admit to you they don't turn in appropriately glowing reports of D3 phenoms because they're afraid to take a professional chance. Too timid to do their job right, but bold enough to confide their dereliction to a dad? Right.)
You got anything real?
INF ...
It gets real old. If you go back and read all the posts in that conversation you KNOW what I was talking about. It's easy to grab one sentence in a series of posts and take it out of context. I'm not going to argue for the sake of arguing, especially since I already won the previous round. I won because you became a moving target going off on all kinds of tangents when you couldn't win the debate. You don't get a rematch. It's tiresome. Another thing, I wasn't taking any of this personally until your posts railing on me to Swamp. Now it's personal. So it's time to go.
It gets real old. If you go back and read all the posts in that conversation you KNOW what I was talking about. It's easy to grab one sentence in a series of posts and take it out of context. I'm not going to argue for the sake of arguing, especially since I already won the previous round. I won because you became a moving target going off on all kinds of tangents when you couldn't win the debate. You don't get a rematch. It's tiresome. Another thing, I wasn't taking any of this personally until your posts railing on me to Swamp. Now it's personal. So it's time to go.
Well Swamp, after seriously reflecting on your views of D3 baseball, combined with those of RJM, I have even new and greater respect for a player like Tyler Bortnick.
First, he was able to overcome and escape the "prejudice" which so pervasively impacts cold weather position players as your buddy RJM tells us.
More importantly, he was able to escape the clutches of a D3 power and current 2 time National Champion like Marietta college. If he had gone there instead of Coastal, the quality of play would have been so ratcheted down, apparently like they had to do at BSC. One could only expect he would have ended up but a shell of the player who had 4 great years at Coastal and led them to the Super Regionals.
Imagine how fortuitous and unexpected it is to see the names of 2 Marietta players in the 2012 MLB draft. What were those scouts thinking being able to project these guys into the draft considering the low level quality of competition they faced day in and day out.
Imagine how everything was so obvious, but I missed it using the search button in 2004, when I reached out to bbscout on this site to understand the chances of a D3 player to be drafted.
Nope Swamp, nothing real about D3 on this board. I'm hallucinating( as you pointed out while suggesting you didn't personalize anything) and Jones just doesn't bring anything which would justify him expressing an opinion, either.
First, he was able to overcome and escape the "prejudice" which so pervasively impacts cold weather position players as your buddy RJM tells us.
More importantly, he was able to escape the clutches of a D3 power and current 2 time National Champion like Marietta college. If he had gone there instead of Coastal, the quality of play would have been so ratcheted down, apparently like they had to do at BSC. One could only expect he would have ended up but a shell of the player who had 4 great years at Coastal and led them to the Super Regionals.
Imagine how fortuitous and unexpected it is to see the names of 2 Marietta players in the 2012 MLB draft. What were those scouts thinking being able to project these guys into the draft considering the low level quality of competition they faced day in and day out.
Imagine how everything was so obvious, but I missed it using the search button in 2004, when I reached out to bbscout on this site to understand the chances of a D3 player to be drafted.
Nope Swamp, nothing real about D3 on this board. I'm hallucinating( as you pointed out while suggesting you didn't personalize anything) and Jones just doesn't bring anything which would justify him expressing an opinion, either.
I have been reading through this thread for sometime now and it seems to just go in circles. I coach at a D3 school that is consistantly in and out of the top 25 year in and year out, we have had guys drafted over the years as well as guys who have signed pro deals (Minors, Indepen., etc..)
I will say this: A TOP D3 program can compete with mid-Major D1 on a given day. The D3 school may lose 9 out of 10 games played, but there is always that chance for the 1 game where everything clicks. The Mid-Major D1 schools may have 5-7 Grade 1 players for every 1 most D3 top programs can put on the field. Take Pitchers for example. Kean Univ. had 2 of the best pitchers in the country in D3 this year. They did not get drafted nor did they sign a free agent contract.
The top D3 schools will get exposure from Scout Days, Regional Tournaments, and the CWS. The scout days are run through the MLB Scouting Bureau which have began to be set up to see what kids they may want to keep track of but will not be able to see as often as D1 kids.
Lets face it, a Mid Major D1 hitter, during a 3 game series, is going to see their opponents 3 top starting pitchers. My guess is those 3 pitchers are 85+ consistant with good movement and good offspeed. Now that is every series against another Mid Major. TOP D3 teams can produce the same, as in pitchers that are 85+. However the glaring difference is, the Mid Majors are seeing that consistantly. They will not be fooled by the speed/movement. For even the Top D3 school, they will not be seeing 85+ on the consistant basis. D3 hitters are not seeing that + curve or + change everyday.
This is part of the reason that D3 kids do not get drafted as much as Mid Major kids. Even an average Mid Major kid is proving that he can hit the upper level pitching on the consistant basis. Where the D3 kid might see that pitching every other week. As a D3 kid, you must really shine for an entire season, not just for a few series to get a serious look. Chances are if a scout is coming to a D3 game, they will come to the game that the hitter is facing a pro prospect pitcher. Again, even Mid Majors are seeing pro prospects on a daily basis.
I hope this actually makes some sort of sense, as I do tend to ramble on once and a while.
I will say this: A TOP D3 program can compete with mid-Major D1 on a given day. The D3 school may lose 9 out of 10 games played, but there is always that chance for the 1 game where everything clicks. The Mid-Major D1 schools may have 5-7 Grade 1 players for every 1 most D3 top programs can put on the field. Take Pitchers for example. Kean Univ. had 2 of the best pitchers in the country in D3 this year. They did not get drafted nor did they sign a free agent contract.
The top D3 schools will get exposure from Scout Days, Regional Tournaments, and the CWS. The scout days are run through the MLB Scouting Bureau which have began to be set up to see what kids they may want to keep track of but will not be able to see as often as D1 kids.
Lets face it, a Mid Major D1 hitter, during a 3 game series, is going to see their opponents 3 top starting pitchers. My guess is those 3 pitchers are 85+ consistant with good movement and good offspeed. Now that is every series against another Mid Major. TOP D3 teams can produce the same, as in pitchers that are 85+. However the glaring difference is, the Mid Majors are seeing that consistantly. They will not be fooled by the speed/movement. For even the Top D3 school, they will not be seeing 85+ on the consistant basis. D3 hitters are not seeing that + curve or + change everyday.
This is part of the reason that D3 kids do not get drafted as much as Mid Major kids. Even an average Mid Major kid is proving that he can hit the upper level pitching on the consistant basis. Where the D3 kid might see that pitching every other week. As a D3 kid, you must really shine for an entire season, not just for a few series to get a serious look. Chances are if a scout is coming to a D3 game, they will come to the game that the hitter is facing a pro prospect pitcher. Again, even Mid Majors are seeing pro prospects on a daily basis.
I hope this actually makes some sort of sense, as I do tend to ramble on once and a while.
You nailed it. I'm not going to go back and check if I posted this before ... I was at a Harvard - Boston College game. It was the year Trinity (CT) won the D3 national championship. I knew kids on Trinity. Trinity had a stud pitcher named Kiely drafted in the 20's. He had incredible command. I went to several of their games. I saw Kiely pitch twice.quote:Originally posted by Coachball7:
I have been reading through this thread for sometime now and it seems to just go in circles. I coach at a D3 school that is consistantly in and out of the top 25 year in and year out, we have had guys drafted over the years as well as guys who have signed pro deals (Minors, Indepen., etc..)
I will say this: A TOP D3 program can compete with mid-Major D1 on a given day. The D3 school may lose 9 out of 10 games played, but there is always that chance for the 1 game where everything clicks. The Mid-Major D1 schools may have 5-7 Grade 1 players for every 1 most D3 top programs can put on the field. Take Pitchers for example. Kean Univ. had 2 of the best pitchers in the country in D3 this year. They did not get drafted nor did they sign a free agent contract.
The top D3 schools will get exposure from Scout Days, Regional Tournaments, and the CWS. The scout days are run through the MLB Scouting Bureau which have began to be set up to see what kids they may want to keep track of but will not be able to see as often as D1 kids.
Lets face it, a Mid Major D1 hitter, during a 3 game series, is going to see their opponents 3 top starting pitchers. My guess is those 3 pitchers are 85+ consistant with good movement and good offspeed. Now that is every series against another Mid Major. TOP D3 teams can produce the same, as in pitchers that are 85+. However the glaring difference is, the Mid Majors are seeing that consistantly. They will not be fooled by the speed/movement. For even the Top D3 school, they will not be seeing 85+ on the consistant basis. D3 hitters are not seeing that + curve or + change everyday.
This is part of the reason that D3 kids do not get drafted as much as Mid Major kids. Even an average Mid Major kid is proving that he can hit the upper level pitching on the consistant basis. Where the D3 kid might see that pitching every other week. As a D3 kid, you must really shine for an entire season, not just for a few series to get a serious look. Chances are if a scout is coming to a D3 game, they will come to the game that the hitter is facing a pro prospect pitcher. Again, even Mid Majors are seeing pro prospects on a daily basis.
I hope this actually makes some sort of sense, as I do tend to ramble on once and a while.
One of the BC dads played college ball with the Trinity coach. I asked the group if Trinity with Kiely on the mound could beat Harvard. I stated I thought it was possible. The dad who knew the Trinity coach said he had asked the same question of the coach. The coach felt Kiely could keep them in the game. Then they would struggle with other pitchers despite their abilities at the D3 level. The net is a D3 team might have one pitcher who can handle a mid major lineup. Kiely made it to AAA before struggling and getting released.
I believe a D3 pitcher is far more likely to be drafted than a D3 position player. The reason is the radar gun doesn't lie. 90+ is 90+ regardless of the competition. The question regarding the position players is the pitching they face day to day over the course of the season. The best hitter in the NESCAC that year was Kiely's catcher, Killeen. He was not drafted. He was signed as a free agent and hit the wall his second season. The top pitcher on the runnerup, Hopkins was Angeloni. He threw 92. He wasn't drafted. He was signed as a free agent and washed out in his second year due to arm problems.
As Swamp stated, a mid major conference will often have as many players drafted as all of D3
I don't think it does any of us any good to speculate whether or not a premier D3 program like Marietta can compete with a D1 program. You aren't going to get drafted in either case sitting on the bench. With my son, and me for that matter, he (we) wanted to play D1 baseball and wanted more specifically to play at one D1 school in the deep south. That said, we would have never picked a doormat D1 program just to say he was a D1 player. If the D1 opportunity would not have transpired for him, he would have gone to Heidelberg where the coach was absolutely banannas in love with him.
Go where you are loved and you have a shot to play - and then make the best of it. You can do that at any level of baseball. I still think winning should be part of the equation and that should transcend level imho.
Go where you are loved and you have a shot to play - and then make the best of it. You can do that at any level of baseball. I still think winning should be part of the equation and that should transcend level imho.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I don't think it does any of us any good to speculate whether or not a premier D3 program like Marietta can compete with a D1 program. You aren't going to get drafted in either case sitting on the bench. With my son, and me for that matter, he (we) wanted to play D1 baseball and wanted more specifically to play at one D1 school in the deep south. That said, we would have never picked a doormat D1 program just to say he was a D1 player. If the D1 opportunity would not have transpired for him, he would have gone to Heidelberg where the coach was absolutely banannas in love with him.
Go where you are loved and you have a shot to play - and then make the best of it. You can do that at any level of baseball. I still think winning should be part of the equation and that should transcend level imho.[/QUOTE
If you are good the Coach will get you exposure in a d111 situation.what school or coach wouldnt want a PRO comming out of their program..
I don't think it does any of us any good to speculate whether or not a premier D3 program like Marietta can compete with a D1 program. You aren't going to get drafted in either case sitting on the bench. With my son, and me for that matter, he (we) wanted to play D1 baseball and wanted more specifically to play at one D1 school in the deep south. That said, we would have never picked a doormat D1 program just to say he was a D1 player. If the D1 opportunity would not have transpired for him, he would have gone to Heidelberg where the coach was absolutely banannas in love with him.
Go where you are loved and you have a shot to play - and then make the best of it. You can do that at any level of baseball. I still think winning should be part of the equation and that should transcend level imho.[/QUOTE
If you are good the Coach will get you exposure in a d111 situation.what school or coach wouldnt want a PRO comming out of their program..
I think you need to be realistic. Playing for a D3 school is more about the academics than being seen by scouts to be drafted.
quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:
If you are good the Coach will get you exposure in a d111 situation.what school or coach wouldnt want a PRO comming out of their program..
Which is EXACTLY what Will Sanborn did for Charlie Furbush when he supported his move out of the perennially strong St. Joe's of Maine D3 program. Look where Furbush is now.
Good coaches take care of good players. Good scouts find the players. Pick where you play based on academics and location, baseball will follow.
quote:Originally posted by New2This:
I think you need to be realistic. Playing for a D3 school is more about the academics than being seen by scouts to be drafted.
Yes it is, but that does not mean that their are not quality teams in D3, and you have to give up hope of being drafted. There are players drafted every year from D3. Position players and pitchers.
If you have the talent and you put the work in, then yes you can get drafted. The key most times is getting on a good summer team were you are playing against players that project as as being drafted. Of course you need to play and have success against those players.
Redsoxfan21, while I completely agree with your views and those of BishopLeftiesDad on the subject, I wonder if Furbush applies to the situation, today. He transferred to LSU having been "recruited" during a great Summer in the Cape, and was drafted from there, without sitting out one year, as would be required today. Our son had similar, though not LSU DI opportunities from his Summer league, and chose to stay at the DIII when scouts told him he would be scouted and could be drafted without changing schools. Would he have been drafted higher? Perhaps but he also would have lost a ton of units and not graduated in 4 years.
Honestly, once we get outside the top 75 or so DI programs, top 40 or so DII and nationally recognized JC programs, most every college player is looking up and climbing a mountain if getting drafted is part of the goal. But enough players from mid to lower level DI, DII, top DIII, NAIA and JC get drafted or sign free agent contracts to show that academics and getting drafted for these players are not mutually exclusive. What we can also see is when a DIII program has players drafted who are successful in Milb, that can attract better players and more scouts, with the obvious result.
BLD, you make a very good point about the impact of Summer leagues. Some of this may also relate to geography. The area of the I35 corridor from Dallas to Austin to San Antonio reportedly has as many or more scouts for the population than any place in the US. I would bet Southern CA would be somewhat similar.
It is too bad bbscout contributed so much to this site which seems to dissipate with time and his passing. As a long time and very successful scout, he repeatedly pointed out that MLB scouting is so much different than college scouting. MLB scouts should not care the level, whether it be DI, DII, DIII, JC, or NAIA. They get paid to find players who can succeed in Milb. While I am quite sure some MLB scouts don't, there are enough who do. Players who compete with a high level of intensity and talent on a baseball field can also focus and compete in strong academic environments of some DIII colleges and universities and still be scouted. Some get scouted and don't get drafted. The visibility of the draft does not negate the reality that more DIII players get scouted than drafted, as happens at every level.
Honestly, once we get outside the top 75 or so DI programs, top 40 or so DII and nationally recognized JC programs, most every college player is looking up and climbing a mountain if getting drafted is part of the goal. But enough players from mid to lower level DI, DII, top DIII, NAIA and JC get drafted or sign free agent contracts to show that academics and getting drafted for these players are not mutually exclusive. What we can also see is when a DIII program has players drafted who are successful in Milb, that can attract better players and more scouts, with the obvious result.
BLD, you make a very good point about the impact of Summer leagues. Some of this may also relate to geography. The area of the I35 corridor from Dallas to Austin to San Antonio reportedly has as many or more scouts for the population than any place in the US. I would bet Southern CA would be somewhat similar.
It is too bad bbscout contributed so much to this site which seems to dissipate with time and his passing. As a long time and very successful scout, he repeatedly pointed out that MLB scouting is so much different than college scouting. MLB scouts should not care the level, whether it be DI, DII, DIII, JC, or NAIA. They get paid to find players who can succeed in Milb. While I am quite sure some MLB scouts don't, there are enough who do. Players who compete with a high level of intensity and talent on a baseball field can also focus and compete in strong academic environments of some DIII colleges and universities and still be scouted. Some get scouted and don't get drafted. The visibility of the draft does not negate the reality that more DIII players get scouted than drafted, as happens at every level.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
Redsoxfan21, while I completely agree with your views and those of BishopLeftiesDad on the subject, I wonder if Furbush applies to the situation, today. He transferred to LSU having been "recruited" during a great Summer in the Cape, and was drafted from there, without sitting out one year, as would be required today. Our son had similar, though not LSU DI opportunities from his Summer league, and chose to stay at the DIII when scouts told him he would be scouted and could be drafted without changing schools. Would he have been drafted higher? Perhaps but he also would have lost a ton of units and not graduated in 4 years.
Honestly, once we get outside the top 75 or so DI programs, top 40 or so DII and nationally recognized JC programs, most every college player is looking up and climbing a mountain if getting drafted is part of the goal. But enough players from mid to lower level DI, DII, top DIII, NAIA and JC get drafted or sign free agent contracts to show that academics and getting drafted for these players are not mutually exclusive. What we can also see is when a DIII program has players drafted who are successful in Milb, that can attract better players and more scouts, with the obvious result.
BLD, you make a very good point about the impact of Summer leagues. Some of this may also relate to geography. The area of the I35 corridor from Dallas to Austin to San Antonio reportedly has as many or more scouts for the population than any place in the US. I would bet Southern CA would be somewhat similar.
It is too bad bbscout contributed so much to this site which seems to dissipate with time and his passing. As a long time and very successful scout, he repeatedly pointed out that MLB scouting is so much different than college scouting. MLB scouts should not care the level, whether it be DI, DII, DIII, JC, or NAIA. They get paid to find players who can succeed in Milb. While I am quite sure some MLB scouts don't, there are enough who do. Players who compete with a high level of intensity and talent on a baseball field can also focus and compete in strong academic environments of some DIII colleges and universities and still be scouted. Some get scouted and don't get drafted. The visibility of the draft does not negate the reality that more DIII players get scouted than drafted, as happens at every level.
You said this better than I ever could. I wish I had been around when BBscout was still with us.
