NCAA Division III

I truly wonder whether the summer league placement is an issue of DI vs DIII or a function of the coach and the program. I fully agree that the Cape is not going to take a DIII unless exceptional circumstances exist. But I know that DIII programs can and do place players in nearly every other league. Trinity (TX) had as many as 11 players placed one summer in the NECBL, the Valley League, the Coastal Plains, New York, ACBL, and even one in the Cape. I know of DI programs in Northern CA where they have not come close to this type of placement. I think summer placement is a reflection of the coach and program he wants to run. On the posts concerning the attendance, I wonder how many players consider that in choosing a college and program. Again, in Northern CA there are DI programs that are lucky to draw 100 people, especially midweek, for some of their games. I don't know that says anything about the school or the baseball. The point I am trying to make goes back to the initial point: there are DIII's that can compete with mid to lower lever DI's.
On the "washing the uniform" comment, while I don't think it is accurate in general for DIII, I will acknowledge that DIII requires that players be given nothing special that is not available to any other student. Thus, no tutors, no special academic help,etc. They must attend school and matriculate with every other student on an equal basis while also devoting 20-30 hours per week for baseball. When my son walked across the stage to get his diploma in 4 years from one of the best universities anywhere, having played every inning of every game, competed very successfully during the summer, the intangibles were, to me, related to what he had accomplished and the person he had become as opposed to the crowds, laundry and the like. But I happen to share in some of the current sentiment suggesting that DIII is really what collegiate sports were/are envisioned to be about.

Infielddad, what a great response.

Somewere along the line we forget that only the elite of the elite will be drafted, let alone make it to the SHOW. The mear fact that our son's are playing at the college level is a testimony within itself. Like the NCAA commercial says "There are 396,000 NCAA athletes almost all of them will be going PRO in something other that a sport."

That's the reality. If they are going to make it they are going to make it. If not, you better learn to do your own laundry.

I'll take playing every day in front of 0 fans as opposed to sitting on the bench in front of 1,000 fans...

I just wanted to post this from Perfect Games message board- because I think that it has some good advice. Remember the point of finding a place to play and choosing a program is to find the best FIT for the individual. The goal is to have the opportunity to do something that you love, get better at baseball, get an education and if you develop into a MLB type player- play professional baseball and if that doesn't work out,to be successful at whatever your chosen profession is!

Oh,and by the way,my son doesn't have to wash his own uniform (although I am interested to see how he manages doing all of his regular laundry!! )

XMLBScout
Member posted January 08, 2004 07:14 PM
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Weigh all offers

Having been a Head & Assistant Baseball Coach, besides a MLB Scout, I can say from my past experience as an evaluator, coach and former player, that going either route, the Junior College or Division 1 or any College Level, is a coin toss. The best things that can be provided to you, is the opportunity to PLAY! Playing is important in your development, so therefore, go where you are going to play NOW!! Even if it is at a lower classification, if you have talent and want to be scouted, it really makes no difference at all if you go the JC Route or D-1 route, or NAIA, D-2, D-3, etc.., if you can play, the scouts will find you. If you are going to sit at most programs, and one offers you the chance to play right away, weigh that offer more heavily than sitting on the bench. There are many junior college programs, with 3 levels now, when years ago it was just one level, and there are a lot of quality small college programs nationally, where you can get the type of playing opportunity NOW. Listen to all offers is the best advice I can give, and weigh your opportunities to play, check out the facilities and get feedback from former players in those programs before jumping in with both feet and signing that national letter of intent.

"If you can play, they will find you!"

Good luck.
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Posts: 42 | From: Wake Forest, NC, USA | Registered: September 24, 2003

PGScout
Member posted January 08, 2004 08:41 PM
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Lots of very good advice given by many outstanding baseball people.

XMLBScout,

I couldn't have said it better if I had thought about it all day. All things considered find out where you can play, right away.
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Posts: 53 | From: USA | Registered: January 08, 2003



All times are PST

My son plays at a D3 school. The roster is made up of players that according tothe brochure were all league all county etc etc. He was not walked on and made the team as a freshman. Has worked hard and is fitting in and has contributed. I have attended many games including NCAA regionals and have seen some very good baseball. Reading other posts you would think D111 baseball had diferent rules like 60 foot bases or no stealing. I know sarcasm but what the heck. You look at D1 and you see the same teams over and over at Omaha. Is that good. I was at agame this spring and ran into a scout I know. 2 others showed up. They were there for a reason. D1 D2 D3? It is baseball. Some teams are good some teams are bad some players can play some not as well. At all levels.

There have been a lot of interesting posts on the DIv.DIII issue as of late. The best responses are those that look at the decision as the "best fit". To some the best fit may be the opportunity to play right away, while for others it might be the chance to be part of a team that plays a competitive schedule with outstanding facilities, large crowds, etc. I can honestly tell you from my experience with DIII baseball, except for the young men that elected to play DIII because they wanted to be near home, almost to a one, the rest would have prefered to have been on DI teams whether they were star starters or utility players. Someone posted earlier that at the DIII level athletes are treated no differently than students - in other words no tutors, no special registration, no special equipment, etc. For many young men this means something. For years I was on the other side trying to convince parents and players of the merits of DIII so I know first hand what goes through a young man's mind when he is making these tough decisions. Many of you are right - in some cases the level of play is close. But it's like a label - and in our society people like labels.

I have been reading this post with a lot of interest.
Like every other young man a part of me wants to go to the SHOW. When I picked the university I will be attending what really was of concerned was what fit best for both me and my family.
As I walked through the process of recruitment I realized how fortunate I am.
Although I never had an opportunity to play High School ball (school has no program) I had the opportunity to play local spring and summer travel.
My father always told me that part of my recruitment was my grades as well as my athleticism. He was 150% right.
My senior year was great. I was accepted to almost all my colleges on academics alone. Although coaches had contacted me nothing seemed right.
I chose Wesleyan University in CT. A D-II program with little or no following. A great bunch of guys and a terrific young coach.
I know at Wesleyan I will begin my adult life on a great academic path. I will also play baseball. College baseball.
Last year I was 16-17. As a RHP I was throwing 83-84 peaking 86 on a good day. I was 6' and 155 lb. Wesleyan loved me. Didn't matter that I didn't play HS baseball. Threw hard enough for them and had the grades and boards to be admitted.
I choose Wes over 1 local D-II, 2- local D-1's and some further away D-1's.
The D-II's and D-I's had offered me substainal academic money and some baseball. As we know the D-III's can't.
( I took a loan for the whole family contribution )
Now a year later I am 18. Graduated HS with high honors and still focused on both my baseball career and academic career. As my father says I am now just beginning to come into my own.
I have grown some more (6' 1") actually gained a few pounds 165.(LOL)However my biggest, and presently most important gain to me, has been on the field.
My velocity has increased to 86 - 87 and I actually hit 89 three times. I also love to hit. Hitting is cool!!
If baseball doesn't happen in the future then I will be an orthopedic surgeon. That is my present goal.
I guess my point or rant is to just say go to school for all the right reasons.
Go to the best academic school you can afford and compete academicly at.
We will allI always play ball, somewhere.

Learn to review before you post, or turn in papers.
Sorry folks Wesleyan is a D-III. I missed one I.

:=)

Determined: congratulations and best wishes for a great career, whatever you do. It is nice to hear from players instead of us meddling parents!

P.S. You can edit posts by going to the little icon on the lower right below your post that has an eraser tip/file. If you don't see it, login and it should appear.

Determined -

Thanks for your story. How did you originally become interested in Wesleyan? Was it one of the schools you applied to for academics or did the coach contact you because of your recruiting efforts?

Bump...

Bumping this up. Now that the early signing is done some people may be isnterested.

Thanks for bumping this up BisfopleftiesDad. Good thread from 6 years ago still holds merit.

I have learned from here that DIII recruiting steps up after the Early signing period. Also DIII schools who have showed interest in July have serious interest in a player and are willing to recruit toe to toe with DI and DII colleges. I also noticed some differences in DI ,DII and DIII recruiting before this period which I will elaborate further once we have a concrete destination.

I will weigh in on this one. My son plays for St.Scholastica and I would say the level of play is better than most of the DII teams and some of the DI schools in this area. I always told my son that "baseball is baseball". 90 mph at DIII is the same as 90 at DI. There are simply more Div.I caliber players in this area than the one div I school(Minnesota) can absorb therfore many of these kids play div 2 and 3. The problem is that the lower level DIII's are pretty bad and I think it gives the Division a bad name. He is ,however getting a great education and will graduate as a Dr.of Physical Therapy and in the grand theme of things this is what college is all about...preparing you for your life ahead.

I had the top D3 versus a D1 conversation with the dad of a D1 player when Trinity won the D3 national championship. I met the dad at a Harvard-BC game. His son played for Harvard. He was from Connecticut. When I asked if he was familar with Trinity the guy said he played college ball with the coach and knew him very well. He had asked the Trinity coach the same question I asked him, "Could Trinity beat Harvard?" The answer was on Trinity's best day with their ace on the mound it would be possible. The ace was drafted in the 26th round.

Each year about 15-25 players are drafted from D3 ball. Several more sign as free agents. The year Hopkins lost to Trinty their ace signed as a FA. Trinity's catcher signed after being NESCAC player of the year.

A player is more likely to be drafted from D3 if he's a pitcher. The quality of competition might be questioned for a position player. 90+ is 90+ regardless of where it's thrown. The Hopkins pitcher I referenced entered Hopkins throwing 84 and came out throwing 92.

RJM,
I really don't know what you are trying to say, other than you seem to like to be a contrarian on the site, many times and pose things which seem negative.
When our son was drafted from a D3, Scott Hyde from George Fox was picked in the 6th/7th round by the Mets. He was about 6'6" and was 90-92 with a very good slider.
Recently the Nats selected Jordan Zimmerman from a Wisconsin D3. Zimmerman went in the 2nd round. Kurt Yacko from Chapman was a 7th round selection.

As it relates to position players, many of those who get drafted have exposure from Summer leagues against very good DI talent.
Even if they prove the level of talent, they still need to be projectable and have more upside.
I would not expect any parent of a DI player to think their team could be beaten by a DIII. Needless to say, many at the DIII feel the opposite.
These are questions without answers.
Our son's college roommate had a very good view of this, I think: the better DIII's usually have some DI skills and talent, but there is something in size, speed, throwing, hitting breaking balls, velocity or other items that make them well suited to DIII, at least at the beginning of college.
One fact: the top DIII's play the game well. Many are coached as well or better than schools at the DI or DII level.
The second fact: there is little difference in the love of the game, effort, attitude or intensity between a DIII player and DI player when they are between the foul/fair lines,

I have to agree with infielddad these discussions on whether a D3 could beat a D1, or an Ivy could beat a ranked D1, or fill in the blank, they are all pointless. My hat goes off to any kid playing baseball in college regardless of the level or the major they are under takeing. It is a huge accomplishment and they are all making a commitment above and beyond their peers. Until you see it up close you really can not understand how hard they are working. They are in a fraternity of a very small and special group of kids IMO.

Just my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
RJM,
I really don't know what you are trying to say, other than you seem to like to be a contrarian on the site, many times and pose things which seem negative.
When our son was drafted from a D3, Scott Hyde from George Fox was picked in the 6th/7th round by the Mets. He was about 6'6" and was 90-92 with a very good slider.
Recently the Nats selected Jordan Zimmerman from a Wisconsin D3. Zimmerman went in the 2nd round. Kurt Yacko from Chapman was a 7th round selection.

As it relates to position players, many of those who get drafted have exposure from Summer leagues against very good DI talent.
Even if they prove the level of talent, they still need to be projectable and have more upside.
I would not expect any parent of a DI player to think their team could be beaten by a DIII. Needless to say, many at the DIII feel the opposite.
These are questions without answers.
Our son's college roommate had a very good view of this, I think: the better DIII's usually have some DI skills and talent, but there is something in size, speed, throwing, hitting breaking balls, velocity or other items that make them well suited to DIII, at least at the beginning of college.
One fact: the top DIII's play the game well. Many are coached as well or better than schools at the DI or DII level.
The second fact: there is little difference in the love of the game, effort, attitude or intensity between a DIII player and DI player when they are between the foul/fair lines,

There's nothing contrarian about the truth. If you look back oved the past ten years at least two thirds of the D3 players drafted were pitchers. When I posted I was wondering if you would miss the word "most" and target my response since your son was a position player.

quote:

There's nothing contrarian about the truth. If you look back oved the past ten years at least two thirds of the D3 players drafted were pitchers. When I posted I was wondering if you would miss the word "most" and target my response since your son was a position player.

I still do not understand whatever point you were/are trying to make with the Harvard/Trinity comments and then your moving to the #1 at Trinity being picked in the 26th round and the #1 at JHU being a free agent sign.
That was the point of my post.
One only needs to look at the drafts to see there are more pitchers than position players selected from the DIII level. Is it by a ratio of 2/3's? I had an impression it was 60/40 but who cares. BTW, is the ratio different for DI, DII, JC or HS? I sure don't know.
I guess, again, we can look at this as a glass half full vs half empty.
I like to look at this as D3 players can be drafted.
I read your comments to say not many get drafted and even less if they are position players, apparently because of the "quality of the competition." I disagree with the latter "slap" toward DIII, but again, who cares, other than it is a "slap" at plenty of son's of posters on the board and some posters like JH and JPontiac.
If the pessimistic view toward DIII is what you wanted to convey, that is fine with me.
As I posted before, DIII players compete with heart, intensity and desire just like everyone else playing college baseball.

Pre-season D3 poll out.

http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2012/2012week-0

Preseason 2012 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25
# School (1st votes) 2011
Record
Pts Prev.
1 Marietta (25) 47-4 625 1
2 Chapman 37-13 579 2
3 Kean 42-11 559 3
4 Linfield 33-11 496 9
5 Cortland State 36-10 481 13
6 UW-Whitewater 37-13 455 4
7 Christopher Newport 39-7 445 14
8 UW-Stevens Point 34-10 357 15
9 Salisbury 34-14 351 6
10 Heidelberg 36-13 348 11
11 Alvernia 38-9 321 16
12 Eastern Connecticut 34-13 304 20
13 Buena Vista 34-18 284 7
14 St. Scholastica 37-7 276 12
15 Western New England 42-11 274 10
16 Keystone 38-12 215 5
17 Carthage 32-12 207 17
18 Wheaton (Mass.) 32-12 196 22
19 Thomas More 29-9 185 -
20 Redlands 30-13 170 -
21 Shenandoah 37-7 152 8
22 Trinity (Texas) 34-13 106 19
23 Texas-Tyler 33-8 105 18
24 Tufts 27-9-1 72 21
25 Birmingham-Southern 30-9 56 -

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

quote:

There's nothing contrarian about the truth. If you look back oved the past ten years at least two thirds of the D3 players drafted were pitchers. When I posted I was wondering if you would miss the word "most" and target my response since your son was a position player.

I still do not understand whatever point you were/are trying to make with the Harvard/Trinity comments and then your moving to the #1 at Trinity being picked in the 26th round and the #1 at JHU being a free agent sign.
That was the point of my post.
One only needs to look at the drafts to see there are more pitchers than position players selected from the DIII level. Is it by a ratio of 2/3's? I had an impression it was 60/40 but who cares. BTW, is the ratio different for DI, DII, JC or HS? I sure don't know.
I guess, again, we can look at this as a glass half full vs half empty.
I like to look at this as D3 players can be drafted.
I read your comments to say not many get drafted and even less if they are position players, apparently because of the "quality of the competition." I disagree with the latter "slap" toward DIII, but again, who cares, other than it is a "slap" at plenty of son's of posters on the board and some posters like JH and JPontiac.
If the pessimistic view toward DIII is what you wanted to convey, that is fine with me.
As I posted before, DIII players compete with heart, intensity and desire just like everyone else playing college baseball.

In one of the posts someone stated many D3's can beat D1's. I responded as I did because that's just not true. A top D3 may beat a non major D1 using the back of their staff for a non conference game. But that's about it. It's not a slam at D3. Isn't it logical D1 ball is better than D3 ball? It doesn't mean top end D3 ball isn't good ball. I had a great time watching Trinity play several times the year they won the championship. The weird thing was they played the championship against the son of my son's travel coach. The son of a former teammate of mine played for Trinity.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
In one of the posts someone stated many D3's can beat D1's. I responded as I did because that's just not true. A top D3 may beat a non major D1 using the back of their staff for a non conference game. But that's about it.

Actually your answer is incorrect; the correct answer is that it is unknowable. You like the other poster are making an assumption, which neither of you really know the outcome.

The point is that it is pointless prognostication.

D1 ball is played at a higher level than D3 ball, which is an accurate statement. There are D3 players who could play at the highest level of D1 ball, which happens and is knowable since these players play against each other in the summer.

All college baseball players regardless of the level are making huge sacrifices and are accomplishing some amazing things both on and off the field.

quote:

A player is more likely to be drafted from D3 if he's a pitcher. The quality of competition might be questioned for a position player.

This was the "slap" which I referenced. Or is this just "d amn ed" with faint praise?
Just an FYI, when scouts looked at our son, and other position players drafted from his DIII, they usually started in the Fall.
They came and watched intersquads when the coaching staff indicated the best pitchers would be on the mound.
They also attended the Fall scrimmage when the DIII would match up against a very, very good Texas JC for about 8 or so hours.
Finally, the ones who were really interested, and the cross checkers, arranged most of the time in the Spring to be watching practices or working with our son after/before practice and then spent time talking, sometimes up to an hour or more.
One thing more than a few told him was they had information from the Summer Wood bat league. They were making an assessment of his ability and make up, and often would be seeing him shortly after/before watching a top DII team or coming from UT and Texas A&M.
Two organizations had him in for final evaluations just before the draft.
I am sure not all scouts or organizations do it the same. More than a few were quite thorough in scouting the player, not the "quality of competition."
The Cardinals drafted one of the position players. The scout was very careful. They ended up picking the player as a catcher...a position he never played in college or Summer League.

Regardless of your son or another other D3 position player being drafted the statement is still true. I got it from a pro scout. If you notice the words "none" and "never" are not in my posts.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Regardless of your son or another other D3 position player being drafted the statement is still true. I got it from a pro scout. If you notice the words "none" and "never" are not in my posts.

Well then it must be true, you talked to scout.

My scout friend has some beach front property Arizona. I will have him give you a call.

Sarcasm isn't becoming. It also tells me you don't have a valid point. I've been told what I stated by more than one scout. I've also read it.

But based on the push back I'm getting from a couple of people D3 players are on the same level as D1 players. OK! That's why about 25 D3 players get drafted while about 750 D1 players are drafted.

If you just used common sense looking at two college position players, if one is facing mostly 87-92 mph pitching and another is facing 83-87 mph pitching before drafting wouldn't you want to more investigating on the player facing mostly 83-87 than 87-92. Don't argue just for the sake of arguing.

I'm done. I can't add any more to this than arguing for the sake of arguing.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Regardless of your son or another other D3 position player being drafted the statement is still true. I got it from a pro scout. If you notice the words "none" and "never" are not in my posts.

I wonder.
An ACC coach recruited our son to transfer. His comments were our son would be the 2nd best ACC shortstop behind StephenDrew.
Because he said it, it is true? I wonder.
Because you got it from a pro scout does not make it true, in my view. It makes it true for that scout, perhaps.
bbscout felt DI to DIII made no difference for the job of a scout evaluating for the draft. His comments on this board were that the job of a scout is to find those who play and project. There were no conditions and no excuses.
BTW, in case you missed the mention of it numerous places in this thread dating back to 2004, Summer Wood bat leagues provide DIII players the opportunity, with wood, to equalize the velocity issue that exists at DIII. It might not get them drafted, for other reasons I have mentioned in this thread, such as size, speed, arm, projection, etc.
But hey, from your "throne,"I am just the parent of a former DIII player...

"If you build it they will come." If you're good enough, they'll find you.

This is a post I wrote on November 2, 2009. It was my sophomore year of college, we had just finished up fall season. That year (2010), my team finished 3rd in the Division III New York Regional after getting knocked off in the semi-final game. The eventual winner lost in the national championship game.

Hopefully this will give a gauge of some quantifiable numbers to put with the questions. From this team we had three players sign professional contracts. One pitcher out of the draft, one as a free agent and our shortstop with an independent league team.

quote:

I am a sophomore at a D3 school that has been nationally ranked in the past and is consistently ranked regionally. Here is our pitching staff:

Junior RHP, 6'5" 225 lbs. 93-96 mph
Senior RHP, 6'0" 205 lbs. 87-90 mph
Junior RHP, 5'11" 175 lbs. 85-89 mph
Soph RHP, 6'0" 185 lbs. 84-88 mph

^ This should be our consistent starting rotation. Here's what rounds out our bullpen and midweek starters (no particular order):

Soph RHP, 6'0" 185 lbs. 82-85 mph
Soph RHP, 6'3" 200 lbs. 86-89 mph
Junior LHP, 5'10" 190 lbs. 82-85 mph
Soph LHP, 6'3" 205 lbs. 81-84 mph
Soph LHP, 6'0" 185 lbs. 81-84 mph
Soph LHP, 5'11" 165 lbs. 84-87 mph


Hope this helps you get a gauge. These numbers are accurate according to the pitch charts we filled out throughout the fall season. We also have a junior LHP who was in the upper 80's last spring, but he is out with Tommy John Surgery.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

Summer Wood bat leagues provide DIII players the opportunity, with wood, to equalize the velocity issue that exists at DIII.

This is where the majority of the exposure comes from...not only for DIII players, but for the vast majority of college baseball players as a whole who aren't attending a "perennial" powerhouse program.

I'll only continue if you answer these two questions honestly. And after you answer them you will have been honest with yourself.

1) Why are about 750 D1 players and 25 D3 players drafted?

2) Even with a small sample why is the proportion of pitchers to position players in D3 larger than D1?

I know one of you is a lawyer. I have lawyers in the family. I tried dating a lawyer once. I found they like to argue for the sake of arguing. They like to take a point with little chance of winning on the basis of facts and beat on the other person's credibility until the person gives up. They call that a win.

If you're honest with your answers there will be no reason to proceed. If you're not honest with your answers there will be no reason to proceed.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Sarcasm isn't becoming. It also tells me you don't have a valid point.

I love sarcasm just in case you were not aware of its definition it is “The giant gulf (chasm) between what is said the person who doesn’t get it.” Perfect in this case I think. I do admit it is one of my character flaws however; I just can’t help myself sometimes.

First I do agree with you in the post where the guy said there were more D1 players in his area that were on DIII teams….Most DIII teams are not going to compete with D1 teams. I am sure however that there have been some, I personally have not seen them but have been told by some knowledgeable people who have seen them. As I pointed out before, it is mostly unknowable and irrelevant.

Consistent with JH’s point, my son’s program will have 6 kids throwing in the 90’s this season, two freshmen and the rest upper classmen. Their number one is 92-93 tops at 95/96. As infielddad mentioned the scouts have been out this fall in their scrimmage games. I know, at least in the top 30 ranked DIII teams, you are not going to see the types of velocities you posted.

A player will be drafted if he is considered talented enough to be drafted, not where he played in college, period - end of story. In the top summer league in California this year the league MVP was from an NAIA school. (it is considered one of the top 3-4 summer leagues in the country)

Late add:

To your point above. I don’t know the stats but believe you will see a similar distribution.

1. Top 30 DIII teams will be where most of the drafted DIII players come from.
2. Top 30 D1 teams will be where most of the drafted D1 players will come from.

There is a wide range of teams below both levels, someone would have to do a pareto chart to really know however. I don’t have the data or the time. Again my point is that it does not matter where you play during the season, in a good DIII program with good summer league placement a draftable player will be found.

2011 MLB draft: D3 players

10 pitchers
4 position players

Source: D3.com

BOF ... I don't disagree there are D1 potential players in D3. Some are because they chose the presitigious education at the D3 (ex: Hopkins) over the D1 program. Some are because they are physical late bloomers with it's physical size or talent. But the examples JH and you have provided are not consistant from top to bottom with a D3 conference. I've watched a reasonable number of NESCAC games over the past few years. It's the conference Tufts (ranked) is in. There's a noticable drop off after the top few teams. I've watched the conference Wheaton (ranked) is in. They come in first and Babson comes in second almost every year because there's a drop off after those two teams.

quote:

Again my point is that it does not matter where you play during the season, in a good DIII program with good summer league placement a draftable player will be found.

At least you've established you're not arguing against my point. My point is it's far more likely a pitcher is drafted than a position player from D3.

quote:

it's far more likely a pitcher is drafted than a position player

Isn't that true at all levels? Just look at MLB rosters...around half the rosters are pitchers. They have to draft more pitchers than position players.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

it's far more likely a pitcher is drafted than a position player

Isn't that true at all levels? Just look at MLB rosters...around half the rosters are pitchers. They have to draft more pitchers than position players.

Both true statements. I ran a quick calculation of the 2011 draft results. There were a total of 1530 players drafted. The combined number RHP(573) and LHP(218) drafted was 791. That means 51% of ALL players drafted last year were pitchers.

No attempt was made to sort out the number between D1, D2, D3, and HS.

quote:

Isn't that true at all levels? Just look at MLB rosters...around half the rosters are pitchers. They have to draft more pitchers than position players.

Good point...

My son chose to play baseball at a D3 school. He may have become a 'good' D1 player. However, he is already a 'good' D3 player(at least on paper). He may become a 'great' D3 player.

If it works out he could still be drafted. It doesn't matter that fewer D3 players are drafted. It only matters if he is drafted. He hasn't given up the chance by playing D3. He will most likely see more playing time over the next four years in a more successful program, at a better school, in a nicer part of the country, than the D1 programs he could have played for...

In basketball this season his school played two D1 schools. They lost both games by 50 points. The second game was against a top 15 team. The D1 school only played 9...

So, against a D3 school the back of the bench at a D1 school doesn't get to play. Fine. If you're happy being the practice players so you can say 'I play D1' then I say 'Go for it'....

To each his own...

quote:

One only needs to look at the drafts to see there are more pitchers than position players selected from the DIII level. Is it by a ratio of 2/3's? I had an impression it was 60/40 but who cares. BTW, is the ratio different for DI, DII, JC or HS

RJM,
.
This was part of a comment I made on the previous page.
Still waiting for your answer, but others probably did the work for you.
When one considers each team is drafting for 2 Milb teams, where they need 12-13 pitchers and 12-13 position players, it seems pretty darn likely more pitchers get taken.
But, as I posted in 2004 near the beginning of this thread, using the draft to measure college skills or talent isn't a very good measure.
In 2004, the DII player of the year wasn't drafted. Does that mean he was not a DII or DI quality player? Not a chance.
Looked at in reverse, in 2004, and other years, Stanford has had pitchers drafted who had less than 20 innings total, on the mound, in 3 years. The reason is they could not get guys out when they were on the mound. Does getting drafted provide credibility for their ability. Absolutely not.
I have acknowledged in this thread and others that DI baseball is better quality baseball than DIII.
If the measure of DI is the draft, then you are using a standard that makes many, many who play for DI teams less than DI players...when they don't get drafted. I think that is a very unfortunate choice for the point you seem to want to make.
For all you post on D3 and the draft, I will keep posting. Why? Well you can play the lawyer card. I am not a lawyer on this board.
I will post because if our son's background can inspire one DIII player to believe his path is real and a potential for them, I want them to know it can be done. I would want any DIII player to see the glass half full, not half empty, which seems to define our differences so many times on this board.

quote:

Originally posted by Up in the Stands:

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

it's far more likely a pitcher is drafted than a position player

Isn't that true at all levels? Just look at MLB rosters...around half the rosters are pitchers. They have to draft more pitchers than position players.

Both true statements. I ran a quick calculation of the 2011 draft results. There were a total of 1530 players drafted. The combined number RHP(573) and LHP(218) drafted was 791. That means 51% of ALL players drafted last year were pitchers.

No attempt was made to sort out the number between D1, D2, D3, and HS.

Thank you for making my point. I knew the overall numbers were about 50%. But D3 draftees are usually 65-70% pitchers. Going back to my original point it's because 90+ is 90+ no matter where it's measured. Whereas the position players don't consistly face top quality (D1 type) pitching the quality of competition they face is in question with the scouts.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Up in the Stands:

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

it's far more likely a pitcher is drafted than a position player

Isn't that true at all levels? Just look at MLB rosters...around half the rosters are pitchers. They have to draft more pitchers than position players.

Both true statements. I ran a quick calculation of the 2011 draft results. There were a total of 1530 players drafted. The combined number RHP(573) and LHP(218) drafted was 791. That means 51% of ALL players drafted last year were pitchers.

No attempt was made to sort out the number between D1, D2, D3, and HS.

Thank you for making my point. I knew the overall numbers were about 50%. But D3 draftees are usually 65-70% pitchers. Going back to my original point it's because 90+ is 90+ no matter where it's measured. Whereas the position players don't consistly face top quality (D1 type) pitching the quality of competition they face is in question with the scouts.

This is hysterical.
In 2011, there were 8 Ivy League players drafted.
6 were pitchers.
http://www.ivygateblog.com/201...ncerest-condolences/

So I guess this proves the Ivies are not DI quality, but more like DIII, huh???

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

quote:

One only needs to look at the drafts to see there are more pitchers than position players selected from the DIII level. Is it by a ratio of 2/3's? I had an impression it was 60/40 but who cares. BTW, is the ratio different for DI, DII, JC or HS

RJM,
.
This was part of a comment I made on the previous page.
Still waiting for your answer, but others probably did the work for you.
When one considers each team is drafting for 2 Milb teams, where they need 12-13 pitchers and 12-13 position players, it seems pretty darn likely more pitchers get taken.
But, as I posted in 2004 near the beginning of this thread, using the draft to measure college skills or talent isn't a very good measure.
In 2004, the DII player of the year wasn't drafted. Does that mean he was not a DII or DI quality player? Not a chance.
Looked at in reverse, in 2004, and other years, Stanford has had pitchers drafted who had less than 20 innings total, on the mound, in 3 years. The reason is they could not get guys out when they were on the mound. Does getting drafted provide credibility for their ability. Absolutely not.
I have acknowledged in this thread and others that DI baseball is better quality baseball than DIII.
If the measure of DI is the draft, then you are using a standard that makes many, many who play for DI teams less than DI players...when they don't get drafted. I think that is a very unfortunate choice for the point you seem to want to make.
For all you post on D3 and the draft, I will keep posting. Why? Well you can play the lawyer card. I am not a lawyer on this board.
I will post because if our son's background can inspire one DIII player to believe his path is real and a potential for them, I want them to know it can be done. I would want any DIII player to see the glass half full, not half empty, which seems to define our differences so many times on this board.

I never stated D3 position players can't be drafted. I stated at the D3 level the odds are better if the player is a pitcher. I added why based on conversations with scouts and an article I once read. In the past four years I've talked with a lot of coaches, scouts, players and parents about college baseball and beyond. My level of interest was college ball. Sometimes the conversation continued into pro ball based on information they offered.

I don't have any bias towards or against any level of college baseball. Each player has to chose the level they feel will give them a combination of the best education and the best possible baseball experience.