Need direction after major disappointment

Catcher Mom - I feel your pain. These things are tough to swallow.

However unfair it may seem, these things do happen. Without knowing anything about your son or the other catcher...it would seem that the "other" catcher must have quite a reputation...very possibly well-deserved. While not seeming fair to your son (very understandable), it may in fact have been the right decision from a talent point-of-view.

And try not to be angry with the "other" catcher either. He may have had a very good reason for not being there...for example he could have been ill or at the USA Baseball tryouts or something like that.

But most importantly I think...its ok for your son to know you're "on his side" in this situation. But don't dwell on it or let him dwell on it. Use it to inspire him to reach higher...let him dream about being the "stud of the universe" and let him try to achieve it. Staying angry will not help him over the summer.

There are many setbacks in any "career," most certainly even more in a baseball career. Some are small (bad day at the plate) and some are of the tougher variety like this one. Move on to the next tryout or event or team function more determined than ever.

Good luck! We'll all be rootin' for him!

Please read the “Area Code Team Tryouts” thread in the Texas Forum. Right now it can be found on page 4 or use the hyperlink below. It has 12 pages of debate and perspective on this subject.

Texas Forum: Area Code Team Tryouts

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7106002781/m/8651079361[/URL]

Thanks for the information. The other catcher was only in a tourny.

Please don't get me wrong. As we personally know the other catcher and he is a great kid.

But I guess I just feel ****** about when is it going to be our turn. Seems like we are always 1 step behind in the process. Seems like to get anywhere it is not just want you know it is who you know also. Sorry venting again. I will try to get out of this forum and go to the ladies section.

It's just ****** that he has put in alot of work, time and effort and we get alot of people telling us that he is great and do this and that. So it just makes me wonder if they are blowing smoke up our a.. or they mean it.

We are going at this blind and we don't know where to be or who to know.

Once again sorry for being so long winded.

I will try to be positive and I guess I need to calm down. My son doesn't even know he has not made it yet.

I need to focus and like you said try to inspire him.

You can do it. You'll be fine.

One other thought from reading your posts. Often, we parents equate hard work, effort and being a "good kid" with getting where/what we want for them. True, this is a great quality and breaks ties and even helps us move ahead...but it is no guarantee.

I'm sure you know that...but as a parent, it is sometimes hard to remember.

Again, good luck moving forward.

Catcher Mom,

If you have time to read the Texas thread on this topic you'll see there are many views on this hot topic. To me, I am only a mother so please consider that when reading this, the boys who made it seemed to be the ones who swung for the fences and threw balistically with no concern where the ball ended up. When my son was young, his father told him that defense wins ball games and being a contact hitter is as good as the swinging for the fences hitter. At 17 he's learned that isn't the case. But that's ok because he has a lot to offer a coach and most power hitters don't have what he has. I understand your pain and frustration but if you can just get past the anger, some smart coach will see all that your son has to offer. Good luck to you both because this is an extremely stressful time for your entire family!

I believe this is a common experience but like most other organizations the area code scouts make their share of mistakes on who they select and everyone knows it. Therefore you shouldn't dwell on this for very long as making the team is not a litmus test for future success. If you son's a good catcher he'll have plenty of other opportunities to show scouts what he has.

Catcher Mom,
You may not want to hear this right now but there is a disturbing trend in your comments. I hope it is just because you are upset and disappointed right now. Getting to the next level in baseball is not political, players are not selected simply by hard work and determination, and it will never be your turn if that is what you are waiting for. Getting to the next level is about talent and skill and being the best available player that fills the need on a team.

The good news is that “best available player” is somewhat subjective and there are other teams.

let me add this for perspective if I may

When I my son came out of HS a young man who had no right be named so , was named Player of the Year in our Tri County Area--trust me it hurt because he wasn't even on the same page as a number of other players including my son--you know what my son told me ?--it was very simple "Dad, he can have the award but he isnt going to college. I am and that is what counts."

Sometimes our kids have a better handle on the situation than we parents do--we just need to talk to them--I do not think they take it has hard as we do

If I might add a little different perspective on your son's high school season.Your son played at least twice against a first round pick in this years draft.The brass attending those games was visable and extensive.I am sure the scouting directors and cross checkers there were looking at all the contestants in those games. They will have reports written on all who show professional abilities.Your son may have solidified a follow on tryout without even knowing he did.He basically had a try out in front of the heaviest hitters (pardon the pun) in professional baseball.

make no mistake area code games are one of the elite for a young player to make.that said i know a player in my area that tried out for the area code games as a pitcher,pitched to the three batters,struck two out ground ball out.didn't make it.BUT recieved about twenty letters from schools interested.and that is the biggest thing in my opinion.what is it you are expecting from the tryout?just being invited from our area is a big deal.that same player was drafted two years later.it's the end result that is important,haed to see that now but you will.keep working hard it will pay off.

Keep in mind, there are lots of good players --even a lot who get to the Major Leagues -- who never get a chance to go to the Area Codes. I am sure there are some political considerations in play, but not many. Every player there is very good, and many, many players not there are better than a lot who are. Stay positive.

Please take this from a parent who has felt a lot of baseball pain these last two years:

Keep telling yourself it's not the journey, but the destination. Keep telling yourself that when things are good and when things are bad. It does help you keep focus.

Catcher mom....Relax...take a couple of breaths.

Baseball is a game. It is not life...as I'm learning at age 45+.

How many organizations make million dollar mistakes? Plenty. And you're worried about a tryout.

Gees.

Keep this in mind, your son has been invited more than once to these tryouts. There are many players who would love to be given even just one shot at the Area Codes.

Yes, it's hard because we are all conditioned to believe that if our son doesn't make the "next step" or isn't on a certain list then others are "passing him by." The reality is that there is always going to be someone who is better, and the other reality is that none of us know how this is going to end. All you can do is try to enjoy the fact that your son is playing a game that he loves, and help him get to play it as long as he can. If he's having fun playing, then it doesn't matter if he wasn't selected on the Area Code team.

Hi catcher mom,...I'm passing you a box of kleenex and some baseballs to go throw at a tree outside somewhere and throw them stinkin' heck-a-HARD!( out of son's view of course )

I'm gonna say something very different than everyone else so far,..I say get as mad as you want! Heck,..I'm mad for ya. Us mom's wear our boys hearts on OUR sleeves and we see/feel all that they go through to get where they are today. When they hurt, we hurt. If anyone says baseball isnt political,... I say they are being dishonest. If two kids are of equal potential and capablity,..it has to come to a deciding factor somewhere, which usually results if someone knows of, has worked with, or played with "so & so". THATS when it gets political.
Some people go by strictly stats,..others dont,..its all part of the big baseball political game. Just depends on the team and the coaches.

Sooo, instead of condeming you for being mad,... which I'd be willing to bet translates into being hurt for your son,...I say,..blow your nose,..throw those balls hard at that stinkin' stupid tree,..and then hug your son.

Life is full of suprises,..and ya just never know what lies ahead,..I bet there are some good journies a comin',..enjoy them with your son!!
Hats off to ya!
A felow baseball mom!

Catcher Mom,

As your son (and you) travel down the baseball road - I sincerely hope that is the worst disappointment you will ever have to face.

Two years ago - my son basically had his baseball career smashed to pieces - and for all the wrong reasons. He ran into alot of bad people - liars and cheats - with bad intentions - and he was almost finished.

I was very angry about what was done to him. But my reaction mattered little. The only reaction that counted was his reaction.

If your son takes the disappointments and uses them as fuel and works harder and doesnt quit on himself - he will most likely get to his next goal.

It really doesnt matter what you think - or what you feel - the only thing that matters is what the player feels and does when faced with disappointments.
IMO.

The area codes are kind of a joke- the college coaches in so cal let a few scouts do their scouting for them- almost every kid that goes is very good- but the tryout process is ridiculous- it is almost impossible to make if a scout hasnt recommended you- so dads and coaches that are well connected get tryouts where some deserving players cant even get a sniff- but wait you can attend an area code camp with 125 kids and in 4 hours -maybe you can be the 3 that can go to tryout from there- but please throw 90 or hit at least 2 bombs in your 10 swings of bp. Whatever you do if you dont make the regular tryout with scout recommendation , dont donate another 100 dollars to studentsports.com -the organization that is making a fortune off this.

I feel guilty in saying this, but son got invites without having to try out, for two teams.
We felt it was a lot of political BS and not interested, and he wasn't either. They know who they want and who they don't want to play. He was too busy trying to get his summer Connie Mack team to the World Series (which they missed by one game).
Bottom line, he didn't go, he got a great scholly and plenty of scouts at HS games pre draft time. Missing an area code game meant nothing.
Bottom line, your son doesn't need all of this stuff. We sometimes think our kids do, but they don't.
You asked for direction, now is the time to start looking for showcases and wood bat tournaments. Contact PG for any events near you. Get him on a good scout team for the fall. And don't worry, if your son is talented, he will be noticed and good things will happen. I wouldn't even consider this a setback, just how life is in the game of baseball.

And I agree, don't take your anger on the player who was chosen, it's not hs fault.

Catchermom
My son was pretty much in the same boat as Tiger Paw Mom, mine was placed on a team without a tryout also, but in ca he was able to be seen pretty easy. The thing is he chose not to attend but continue with his connie mack team to the world series (which they won). My son still had a great selection of schools and went on to play at the school of his choice.Last year he transferred out and has commited to another d-1 school, in addition he was drafted this year by the White Sox so he could be there also. The message I am trying to give is, it is a great thing to attend, but not the end of the world if yours is not there. There are other quality events your player can attend and he will get great exposure. Tell him to get to the events around your parts and be ready when school starts. He just needs to be working hard and playing for himself (and his team),if he is playing to impress the scouts it is additional pressure he add's on himself. If he is good he will get noticed, tell him not to stress over the things he cannot control and concentrate on the things he can.
Good Luck

Catcher Mom,
The Area code's are great. but not the only way to have your son seen.
I've said it before and I will say it again, I'm from the NW.
And player's from the NW need to get out a visit the Rest of the Country to get Noticed.
It's just the way it is.
Go to the college camp's of your son's choice, The coaches need to see you.
Get invited to a Perfect Game are other Good Showcase event.
Just the Fact that your son tried out for Area Code he's been noticed.
Good Luck and keep playing it will all work out. EH

Just remember - no matter how hard it is to do - it is real life - and it is coming fast at this point.

It is OK to vent - that is what all of us old people are here for LOL - but the real deal - and the only deal - is how your son reacts.

Not how you react.

IMO

Catcher Mom, You are touching on a very important part of the hsbbw! It has to do with the parent/son/baseball relationship and the ability of the parent to properly evaluate their sons and to understand where their son fits in the vast variety of baseball lineups. Your son may deserve a spot on the area code games --- I don’t know --- but it shouldn't be a major letdown if he doesn't make it. Our sons have to learn how to get better by winning and they need to learn how to get better when they lose. I've heard a baseball phrases for years that maybe we parents should take heed to: "Baseball is a game of averages." I remember like it was yesterday telling my son he may not make the JV team as a freshman and he was prepared to work for a roster spot for the next year and I was prepared to help him. Sure, I thought he “deserved” it but what I thought was not part of the decision making process. While it may not be fair, they need to play hard and appreciate the things that come their way.
I agree with justbaeball when he said:

quote:

Often, we parents equate hard work, effort and being a "good kid" with getting where/what we want for them. True, this is a great quality and breaks ties and even helps us move ahead...but it is no guarantee.

I have always felt one of the most important ingredients in the player’s “success” is having a parent properly evaluate his talent and to “guide” him in the right direction. This is a real challenge! The first thing we have to understand our sons are not special just because they are our sons. We just need to keep our sons positive, working hard, and keep him pointed in the right direction. Lclcoach pretty much sums it up:

quote:

If he is good he will get noticed, tell him not to stress over the things he cannot control and concentrate on the things he can.

Fungo

Yes there is politics in area code some area code selections and yes this does take away from the whole idea of the games. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a bit on the naive side. ps no I do not have a son that is involved with the area code games at this time.

Some excellent posts on here. Having gone down the college baseball recruiting path with two sons, neither of which found their way on to the ACC/SEC Blue Chip track, some observations:

1. Like life, it really isn't always fair. Certainly there are no guarantees. You will see players get big time attention that seem to be an awfully lot like other players not getting such notice. Accept that it happens and don't let it discourage you. You can't control what the scouts see, or don't see.

2. Don't let a lack of "Big Time" attention get you down. Is it easier to get to the MLB if you're at a big name D-1? Absolutely. Are there many outstanding players in D-II and D-III? Absolutely. Will the lower D-I, D-II and D-III guys get seen as much as the well known D-I's? No, they won't. Will they get "seen" at all? Most likely, especially if they play in a summer woooden bat league and do well.

3. Is not getting to the MLB ultimately fatal? Thankfully, no.

4. Can baseball players that don't get to MLB enjoy playing college ball, get an education, develop a circle of friends that will last a lifetime, and be the envy of many that didn't get even that far? Absolutely.


5. No parent is truly objective. None of us. I recently was told of a conversation between a very knowledgeable and well-respected MLB official and a summer league coach, where the MLB guy lamented that he couldn't figure out why his son didn't generate more interest. If this guy can't be objective, none of us can.

6. Perseverance has its own rewards. I have a son that signed with a D-II,was red-shirted as a freshman, had his mechanics changed and was ignored PT-wise as a sophmore, as a junior transferred to a D-III that he loves, was switched to a 1B only, necessitating learning to hit again after two years without touching a bat, and is working harder than I've ever seen him work to try to win the starting job come fall. Many would've packed it in by now but he truly loves the game. He certainly won't fail for lack of hard work. I hope he wins the spot, but even if he doesn't, the character he is developing through his monster workouts will carry him well along life's path, and will open other doors if not this one.

7. Sometimes the reward is at the end of the journey, and sometimes the journey is the reward. But they never know which will happen, and neither happens if they don't start the journey.

8. Don't lose sleep worrying over things you can't control.

H-1

hokieone - A beautiful post!!!!!

Very good advice for us all!!!

H1
Neither was my son given the time of day by the SEC/ACC schools. How they continue to get by on such incompetence, I'll never figure out.

Hokie....GREAT post!!!!

Hokie,

EXCELLENT post!!!


Dad04,

Heeheehee!!

catchermom,

Here's a story which might help.

My son was all-state as asoph in hs in the preps. decided he wanted to play D1 so he transfered to a public HS for better competition and higher visibility. Had to sit behind a much lesser player until the starting ss got hurt with 2/3 of season over. As a result he didn't get much interest from recruiters. Went to try out for Commonwealth team and didn't make team, future #1 draft choice was selected over him. Got to play on a fall scout team where a small D1 program saw him and he received a small scholarship offer. Senior year he was honorable mention all-state.
In college his soph year he was consensus All-American and couldn't get invited to Team USA tryout despite being in top 10 in every offensive category nationally. Jr year coaching staff rresigned at end of dismal year but son was drafted in 5th round. Went to short season A ball and was hurt. Surgery and rehab followed and in April was sent to High A. He made the All-stars!!!

Moral of story is if you have talent and perservere you will make it regardless of the obstacles.

Tell your son not to give up. Get mad. Get better. Get vindicated.

Thanks to all posters for your insights.

I am much better today. Mom protecting her young I guess. All information given was informative and helpful. It is wonderful to get the full spectrum of ideas and opinions.

We will hold our head up high. I wish well for the ones who made it--especially since we know a few of them.

We will strive for more--it just gets frustrating at times.

You all have a wonderful day!!!

Just realize that in the past here in the PNW that team is mostly pre-selected.

Maybe it is different this year with the Nationals now heading it up.

Just being invited is a great sign he has been noticed.

Vadad you are right. Parents get too invoved in every up and down.
i always told the Michael Jordan story to my son when things looked bleak when he was young. You learn to sit back and enjoy.

I guess I need to look at things a little more open minded. He did receive a call on 7/1 from a D1 school very interested in him. Some one asked about what we wanted from tryouts? That made us (me) think about it? And I think that question applies to alot of things--so still working on an answer for myself on that question.

I think I need to come more often to the sight and read about what others are doing and how they handle things. Probably will make me feel like I am not alone.

Baseball-the only real sport!!!!

Juding by your Seattle, Washington location, is it safe to assume that the discrepancy occured with the Washington Nationals area code team?

Yes it was--but I am feeling better today after reading everybody's opinions.

I wish all the players that made the team all the the luck. We know a few of them and they will enjoy the ride.

We will just have to get on a different ride and enjoy that one.

My son did enjoy his experience again at the tryouts again he was just disappointed he didn't make it.

Oh well--Life goes on right?

It's not "You all have a nice day"; properly spoken, it's:

"Ya'll have a nice day", or
"Ya'll have a nice day now, heah?"


Smiles from one coast to the other.

Catcher Mom,

I’m glad to hear you are feeling better today. I know this can be frustrating but please remember that if baseball was easy it probably wouldn’t be worth playing. Look at all the great stories about how other kids found success. That’s why I told you there would be other teams. My son had to rediscover playing for the love of the game. He refocused on the game instead of trying to advance to the next level and now the advancement takes care of itself. I had to learn the same lesson to be able to help him. It’s more fun to watch him now and he is playing better than ever. I hope you and your son can do the same.

Now that you are feeling better, one more story to share.
My son tried out for the USA youth team many years ago. He was competing against 2003's, he was a young 2004. Many of the players became high draft choices ( Milledge as an example). He knew as soon as he got there he wasn't going to make the team tryouts, also somewhat political, but enjoyed every moment and for him was a valuable learning experience.

Every tryout, whether you make the team or not, should be a learning experience. Got to turn any negatives into positives, or else you will fail in this sport.

My son has had a similar experienmce to Its' son. Frankly, in our experience, is is not only the best player who gets picked/drafted or whatever...it is sometimes the player with alot of "exposure/hype" or whatever you want to call it. You must get used to it, because it happens at all levels. Ignore those that impune your son does not have the talent that "the other guy" had/has. If it makes you feel any better, the Yankees just spent a couple million on a 16 year old catcher...this should at the very least be interesting to watch. Now THATS a PROSPECT!

CatcherMom:

Im assuming your son in involved with the BaseballNorthwest State games etc. If not, he should be.

This is a very interesting thread. The reason it is interesting is that it was my tryout. There were 47 players at the tryout and each of them was invited by a group of 8 scouts including myself. The kids were from Oregon, washington and Idaho and they were what we consider to be the best 47 players from the 3 states. Being invited means that you are a fine player or believe me you would not be there as poitics does not mean s**t to me. There were no walk ons, as you had to be invited to try out.

There were an additional 5 kids that were invited that did not make the tryout. 2 of them were with their summer teams and would have faced problems with their coaches if they had left their team. One pitcher had a tender shoulder and could not make it. The 3 of them all called me ahead of time and I took this into consideration, and they have been invited to play for us as they are all prospects. 2 other guys just did not show up and won't be with the Area Code Team.

The catcher in question is the best high school catcher in the Northwest and is still not sure he can make it as his team is playing at the same time as the Area Code event.I saw him play 5 times this spring as he was a teamate of a 1st round pick that I was scouting, so my evaluation comes from watching him play in 5 games and get about 20 AB's and catch a hard throwing right hander who was drafted by the Mariners.

Your son is a very good player, and that is why he was invited in the first place. He was edged out, but as far as I can see he is one of the 4 best catchers in the Northwest and that covers a lot of high school catchers.

The Area Code games do not charge the kids one cent to participate, so whatever money Student Sports makes does not come from the players or their families. They charge the scouts and college coaches admission to the games, but we are all on expense accounts so ......who cares?

I invited another player about 6 years ago who was also invited twice and I cut him the first time and it was very hard on my love life at home, as the player I cut was my son. He got edged out that year too, and I caught he l l for it at home.

bbscout:

That is a remarkable post that ought to provide much, much needed insight to a lot of people. Baseball is a tough but fair business. Ultimately it comes down to performance for all to see.

quote:

The catcher in question is the best high school catcher in the Northwest

quote:

He was edged out, but as far as I can see he is one of the 4 best catchers in the Northwest and that covers a lot of high school catchers.

So, in other words, 3 of the 4 best catchers in the Northwest....were edged out.

And, the other 3 have many, many opportunities..........

Sobering, ain't it?

bbscout, thanks for providing your unusual perspective.

And, presuming your permission, I am posting your post in a similar debate in the Texas forum.

bbscout bring a lot to the table in these discussions!
Fungo

bbscout---

What an AWESOME post!!

bbscout, guess you experienced that phenomenon of it being both extremely hot and extremely chilly at the same time, huh?


Thanks much for taking time to relate the info in your post.

quote:

Originally posted by FormerObserver:

quote:

The catcher in question is the best high school catcher in the Northwest

quote:

He was edged out, but as far as I can see he is one of the 4 best catchers in the Northwest and that covers a lot of high school catchers.

So, in other words, 3 of the 4 best catchers in the Northwest....were edged out.

And, the other 3 have many, many opportunities..........

Sobering, ain't it?

bbscout, thanks for providing your unusual perspective.

And, presuming your permission, I am posting your post in a similar debate in the Texas forum.

FO, We are taking 3 catchers to the games, so I guess there are 3 catchers who are pleased, and probably 3 States worth of catchers who are not pleased.

bbscout

you select players

we select players

there are only so many spots on a
roster

not getting selected does not mean the player is not good

some will be pleased others will not because they all want to be there---it just cannot be--it is a way of life--same happens after job interviews--"I should have gotten the job"

it is the way it is

do you not agree? you pick up and go on the next event/game whatever

jemaz, I agree the post by bbscout was very good. As far as performance always being the deciding factor though I have to disagree as I have seen other issues show up plenty of times in the game of baseball and other sports. I am not saying it happened in this case but there are plenty of times that it does.

Lineshot

I cannot say you are wrong, but if a selected player is not good enough to have been selected on his merits, it will soon enough be clear to all. Baseball does not extend favors to anyone in the end.

The thing I was wondering was...were they the best three catchers...or were they prospects?
With all due respect to BBScout and others...bias (political or not) shows up at almost every showcase. Perhaps height, or maybe even the kid runs on the field at "mach 1", or could be he's been raised in the south...brought up to say "yes, sir" to the coach. Or, tools are so great ya gotta find a way to "overlook" those "make-up" deficiencies.
These are the exceptions...but bias exists ON the playing field...and in coaches,scouts, recruiters everywhere.
(No "axe to grind" here, son is 6'1", only says "yes, sir" to the preacher and hustles but no "mach 1") I just beg to differ on the statement "baseball does not extend favors to anyone". Draft percentages disprove that...and many "selected players" are selected on potential merits. It is clear to all, they just cannot or will not re-vamp system.
I do feel that showcases or camps like TR's do a great service to the players, for reasons that should be clear to all that read TR's posts. That is just my humble opinion, based on his (and others) track record on getting players to the next level. Another disclaimer; I am in favor of these showcases, because it does offer "exposure", it is just the fact the some are overexposed, while legitimate players are cut for the "overexposed" players that have been seen, seen and seen again. "Tools" are not that hard to identify.

Catsuremom,

They are all prospects. Some of the prospects get invited to the Area Code games. MOST don't.

Players reach the next level from LL, high school, college, and the minor leagues based on potential.

It is a natural selection process just like life itself.

Bias is in the selection process. Scouts are biased towards 6'4" 210 pound kids that hit the baseball out, throw it more than 90 mph, or run the sixty under 7 seconds. Their prior experience provides some of the basis for that bias.

Hustle and respect for the game, coaches, other players, and for the player himself are important traits of sucessful baseball players that impact the bias of scouts. "The intangibles."

The intangibles of a 5'9" player can offset the physical power of the 6'4" 210 pounder.

The draft is a selection process. Baseball players are selected that major league baseball teams believe (with their biases) have the potential to compete in the minor leagues and reach the major leagues.

Althought there has to be some exposure, the amount of exposure or under exposure is not likely to impact the selection process significanly.

The baseball draft is not the end of the process but actually the beginning.

quote:

It is clear to all, they just cannot or will not re-vamp system.

It is their system, with their learned biases.

quote:

but if a selected player is not good enough to have been selected on his merits, it will soon enough be clear to all.

quote:

Baseball does not extend favors to anyone in the end.

Even the scouts.

Of the 1500 players that are recommended to be drafted by scouts only a fraction will ever play major league baseball.

In the natural selection process, the survivors learn to adapt.

Those that try to change the process don't survive.

.
Fascinating thread...

This could only happen on the HSBBW...unhappy parent meets coach/scout who they hold responsible for their beef...

Highlights the difference in viewpoint..what a parent sees as a a political injustice...

...is simply good research/selection to a scout.

In this case both viewpoints would seem to have validity. For the parent, this is a tryout. Why have a tryout if your not going to use the results or the players who showed? For the scout, why ignore the best information and players that you can get(including those with prior comittments )to provide the best team/players?

In the end such selections and selection processes in baseball and in many sports are are subjective, not objective. "Fair" is in the viewpoint. As a result frustration is likely to follow.

Finally, with all due respects to all of you/us....and while the player in question may have indeed deserved selection...when it comes to sports...A parent (myself included) is the LEAST likley to be able to judge their child's talent level objectively. And this may apply to a slection process as well.

I for one have been in the same position and felt EXACTLY the same way. For me, the scouts explaination was a wonderful opportunity to see the selection world from the other, non-parental side.

44
.

quote:

I for one have been in the same position and felt EXACTLY the same way.

just being invited would be a thrill.but if my son was considered one of the 4 best at anything in new england i'd be doing cartwheels.

when life gives you lemons, make lemonaid

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FormerObserver:
The baseball draft is not the end of the process but actually the beginning.
[QUOTE]

Actually, for most baseball players, the draft is the end of the process.

As far as the Area Code tryouts are concerned, when my son was invited a few years ago I considered it to be a win-win situation. If he made the team, great!! If not, he was being seen by about 90 DI coaches and ML scouts.

The day after his Area Code tryout he received phone calls from dozens of DI coaches. One of the reps for the Area Code team also called to ask about his availability, but that there were a couple pitchers not in attendance at the tryout who they still wanted on the team and they still had to verify everyone's availability. My son was not selected, but that one Area Code tryout was the only exposure he needed to ultimately have many options for college.

And it was free!!

I look at the draft process as another fork in the road. The end of the process is when the player no longer plays. JMO.

This is a great thread and great posts by BBscout, FO and OB44. I enjoy both perspectives, from parents and from scout (who also is a parent).

Another story to share, we were told that son was in consideration for Aflac inaugural a few years ago. It never happened, in fact not really sure how much anyone was interested in him. Do I think the pitchers chosen were better than son, no, from my perspective. In fact, I really didn't understand why some where chosen over others. End of story. In the end, it certainly didn't make much of a difference.

It's very very difficult as a parent going through the process to understand lots of things. When it's all said and done, NLI signed or not signed, draft or no draft, things become a bit more clearer as to what you would or would not change, and what you really had control over, and most likely in the end, I think it's because many parents just sit back, and let their son's talent speak for themselves, without worrying which event he got into and which event he didn't. I know plenty of kids who stayed close to home, parents spent little and got great opportunities. I know others who spent fortunes sending sons off to every camp, every event, every showcase and results were not to their liking. Lots of things fall into place in the end, lots of it based on a teams needs for that particular year, which is something you or anyone else has little control over.

Was my son best pitcher coming out of his class of 2004 in our area, no, but he had talent and a great GPA. The GPA was something we had control over and early on we insisted that he work harder in school than on the field, as we knew from our homework that might make the difference in the end, which it did, fro college, for him. In fact though it was helpful in recruiting, it wasn't as far as the draft, one on one I am sure a team preferred someone of equal talent with less signability issues. And I didn't realize it until later on, his scholarship amount was more hurtful than helpful.



JMO.

FO, I believe what I stated did not, for the most part, disagree with your counterpoints. They are ALL prospects. In this case, prospect and potential equal the same.
The natural selection process is not a great comparson, though...natual selection provides that the strongest survive. In MLB, of those 1500 30-100 of those players are given greater opportunity to proceed. We should be familiar with those greater opportunities...money, chances, extra time and effort to develop. Yes, bias is a part of life, but the statement was made..."politics don't mean #### to me"...it is there whether he intends it or not. No slight to him, he appears to me to be a very fine person. The hustle and respect you reference as being important traits for the game, I wholeheartedly agree, in fact, I see the current trend in MLB (to overlook character and integrity in a "toolsy" players as very detrimental to the essence of the game). It was a reference to what BBscout posted some time ago...he expressed a disdain for those particular traits...a bais.
I also differ with you about "exposure", but it is an opinion, and those always differ!
It is their system, however imperfect it is, I happen to love the game and I do think over time, a correction will be made and less foolishness will be tolerated.
FO, the BEST team is not made up of POTENTIAL, it is present ability. (As far as your comment about the make-up of the scouts team. The parent was not "judging talent level" here, she was simply expressing frustration over the apparent bias. BBScout adequately answered that question and she understood.
It is all too common on this site for posters to jump to that tired old statement..."parents are not capable of judging talent level of their own kids". I give them more credit than that. Yes, there are some that cannot, mostly they get left behind in little league, I have found most parents are perhaps more critical of their own, but are seeking a fairness on the playing field that in some cases is not there.
A open mind towards all should be given freely.
As stated, MLB, the draft...is not the end...for some it is the beginning...of baseball at the next level, for some, it is the beginning of a wonderful life in some other field.

quote:

As stated, MLB, the draft...is not the end...for some it is the beginning...of baseball at the next level, for some, it is the beginning of a wonderful life in some other field.

Catsuremom...THAT is a wonderful perspective on the draft!

The reality is that by the time baseball players are 16-18 years old "reputation" becomes extremely important to scouts. That can be either a "good" or a "bad" reputation.

That reputation thing is a hard thing to overcome but it CAN BE DONE.

In reality when it comes to selection to things like Area Code, Aflac, etc. reputation plays a big role in the selection process along with "tryouts".

In regard to the draft, scouts are in a tough sitation - take a chance with a kid who might not have the reputation of other highly regarded HS players and the scout looks like an idiot if the player does not work out. However if he recommends a player that everyone perceives as a top player and that player ends up not working out then it is not the scouts fault - EVERYONE thought the kid was a lock.

With the above being said, a player with talent will get a chance to prove himself. It may just take a little longer and take a little more work on his part but it can - and is - done all the time. In the end talent will win out. Potential at some point has to be cashed in with results on the field.

So to all the parents who are convinced their sons should have been chosen for Area Code, Aflac, city league all-stars, etc. relax and chill - at some point if your son really does have the talent he will get his opportunity.

It is unfair but it is becoming more and more common for baseball players to be labeled at an increasingly young age. Just the way it is.

There is a logistic problem in baseball. As many have mentioned there are only so many spots on a team. It is not uncommon for great abll players to not make a team. You often are only as good as your last outting.
BBscout and all coaches try to be fair and yes they do have favorites who they have followed who may get picked on their reputation.
In due respect to all scouts and coaches, saying that certain players are the best in a region is fact I find hard to grasp. Ball players are on going works in progress even in their 20s and 30s.
BBscout gave me some advice in athread that got pretty heated after viewing my son's video. I would like to say he heeded that advice and is now throwing harder than he did before. His last outing he faced 5 batters in a relief effort 1 2/3 innings behind a drafted pitcher who also played in the Independant League. We were down 5-3 and he struck out 5 straight with 2 balls called. Only one bat touched the ball and fouled it off. Everyone was commenting on his FB for a change. The point is to all those who believe in themselves and weren't picked for teams move past it and keep working at you game. This is an on going developement and every scout / coach has an opinion that may or may not be valid.

Former observer,

I must disagree on one of your statements. Players do not get promoted on potential alone.

Eventually they must demonstrate the ability to translate potential into performance. Yes, some get promoted for a time on potential alone but the number of positions available are constantly diminishing. Players are cut or released who don't produce. The minors and the majors are about doing well not having just tools. Organizations who don't live by this usually fail to produce winning players and teams.

The toolsy guy with lots of potential will get many chances to develope and show what he can do, but he must in the end deliver.

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The point is to all those who believe in themselves and weren't picked for teams move past it and keep working at you game.

Good post Bobblehead. I almost mentioned the logistical problem you stated, because it does factor in and muddy up the water.
I really do not think scouts are the problem, they are stuck in the middle of the muddy water, trying to make a living,and help out as many talented players as possible. As with anything, there are many good ones and a few not.
You cannot view the process through rose colored glasses, In the last 10 years I have observed appalling behavior from coaches, scouts and parents. A player MIGHT have a chance to go further if he is able to put it all into perspective and rise above it. Even then... talent, tools, heart and love of the game might not get you there...but if you got a big bonus you sure are going to get a heap of help and time enough for almost any of those (talented ones) who did not get picked to have a fair shot at making it. Just ask any minor leaguer who has been released to make room for the potential player coming in! I can hear your reposes to that, but I say, just carefully study the stats. Whether you stay and move up, or get released and go home is both subjective and objective, depending upon what some guy somewhere (usually with money) thinks MIGHT work.

CatSureMom:

If you are good enough, you will get your chances. If not, it will come to an early (relatively) end. Coaches and organizations want to win. Money might get you more time, but that does not last forever. And if you did not begin with money, you still have a chance -- but not an endless one -- if you are good enough. Most, in the end, are not.

Those that see politics almost always have a connection to someone who was good, perhaps very good, but not quite good enough to achieve that to which they aspired. It's the inherent fairness of the game. The rest of it matters hardly at all.

An incorrect assumption. I do not see politics, I see truth. I have no connection to someone not good enough to acheive that to which they aspire. You merely prove my point by assuming anything about anybody to which you know nothing. I never said money lasts forever, I said, in baseball, it will get you greater opportunities to prove what someone of equal talent did not get. There is fairness in the GAME.None of it matters hardly at all.

Here is where we have our fundamental disagreement, CatSureMom. You believe guys who get less money have equal ability. Sometimes that is true -- and when it is, those guys succeed. But mostly, it is not true and that is why the guys without the money don't succeed. It is not because they did not get enough of a chance. It is because ultimately, they were not good enough. And that is essentially true at every level of the game, but more true the higher you go. No one gets anything out of favoring the players who are not as good as other players (other than a parent).

quote:

In MLB, of those 1500 30-100 of those players are given greater opportunity to proceed.

And, a large percentage of them don't make it to the major league.

No, I do not believe guys who get less money have equal talent as a blanket statement. They might.
"And a large percentage of them do not make it to the major league"
Indeed! We do not disagree there!
You appear to assume that I think the ones that were drafted are not talented or that is some "parental" issue...it is neither.

This is a quote from Fungo a few month's Back.

The High draft pick's, have to prove they Don't Belong.
The low draft pick's, have to prove they Do Belong.

Are something to that affect. It does ring true. EH

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Please take this from a parent who has felt a lot of baseball pain these last two years:

Keep telling yourself it's not the journey, but the destination. Keep telling yourself that when things are good and when things are bad. It does help you keep focus.

OLDVAMAN,

You are my hero sir peace