How many of those transfers in the portal were let go and how many decided the grass was greener somewhere else?
@baseballhs posted:Thanks, I see it now. I didn’t even scroll through when I saw the date.
Yeah, their list is a mess. Players listed multiple times, schools listed multiple times with slightly different names, etc. Definitely not the most reliable list to go by.
There are now 34 Wichita St players in the portal.
@nycdad posted:Exit meeting went well according to my son. No surprises. For next year they told him they expect him to be a weekend starter or used several times a week out of the pen…
Of course things can change, but for now he’s off to summer ball in mid June and is training remotely with Tread.
Didn't want to start a new thread... My 2020 who I posted about last summer that was in the transfer portal did not have the season he had hoped for after transferring...which is putting it nicely. Had a great fall, and right before season started strained his lat, but was back by second road trip. Made season debut, and struck out 2 in a mop up role against GT.
Went downhill after that, lost his command and seemed got the yips. Pitched a total of 2.1 innings. Was really down for a while, loves the game (wants to coach when done), but frustrated not getting the results. This wasn't a case of playing at the wrong level, he couldn't get a 13U Legion team out with his command, let alone players at any level in college. Just to be clear I don't think this had anything to do with his lat injury (neither does he).
At the end of season meeting the coaches basically told him to enjoy his summer in summer ball and they'd see him in the fall. A bit surprising. Not a high level D1, but one that made it to a regional last year.
During the exit meeting they did tell him they want him to spend more time with the younger players next year, going over pitching, and the game, etc.
Not sure what to make of the situation, but was very surprised and glad he'll get to finish out at his current school.
There are quite a few highly ranked 2022 kids who either didn’t get any playing time or very little going into the portal. Most of the ones I know were committed 8th-10th grade
https://community.hsbaseballwe...42#75925918350731042
All the seniors at Davidson HAVE to leave. They all have an extra COVID year which is why they are in the portal. Research people. Let’s give kudos to a mid major program where the ‘22 golden glove winner stuck around… so far the seniors have committed to Wake, Miami, ND…
@CT2CA posted:https://community.hsbaseballwe...42#75925918350731042
All the seniors at Davidson HAVE to leave. They all have an extra COVID year which is why they are in the portal. Research people. Let’s give kudos to a mid major program where the ‘22 golden glove winner stuck around… so far the seniors have committed to Wake, Miami, ND…
Assuming you mean grad students right? I think that's different, plenty of schools don't have grad students playing, like the Ivies for example.
I know my youngest had a lot of seniors, some are coming back as grad students, but speaking with a few parents, a lot came down to if they had a grad program that was a fit. They weren't spending money just to play baseball.
If my kids had to redshirt a year and were eligible to then play as a grad student, we'd do the same. Just as it has to be a fit for an incoming freshman, I think it has to be a fit for grad student. Not everyone is going to play that extra year just because they're eligible.
@nycdad posted:Assuming you mean grad students right? I think that's different, plenty of schools don't have grad students playing, like the Ivies for example.
There have been exceptions in Ivies where due to the covid year some played at their current school--provided they were in a grad program( played 4 seasons of 5). I know of two that went to Yale.
I'll give a little portal update. So far the questions have been:
"Where are you playing this Summer"?'
"I'm rehabbing".
"What are you rehabbing?
"Shoulder"
silence...
It hasn't been quite that bad but that isn't far off. I wouldn't recommend the portal if you are injured but many don't have a choice.
@ABSORBER posted:Folks,
You gotta do your homework! Bucknell (9 of 10 are grad-transfer), Davidson (8 of 8 are grad transfer). The same for Holy Cross and St. Bonaventure. That's all I really checked. Some players (Markontonatos @St. Peters are clearly looking to upgrade--his coach is certainly not cutting him loose!)
You really have to examine each and every team and each player you see in the portal. Don't generalize! Definitely do some digging!
I personally know three kids that are on that list in the transfer portal. One had a disciplinary issue was told to hit the road because of his conduct and nothing to do with his baseball ability. One showed up on campus about 70 pounds overweight and completely out of shape. That school has a Physical Performance program that all players must pass before joining the team. The third is a great player that was not asked to leave by the coaches, but he has a parent that was recently diagnosed with a terminal illness and he wants to transfer to school in his home state.
All of these situations are different, and each has a story. Some of them are probably obvious such as a player was a projection from the beginning and didn't develop as the coaches hoped so they are cutting their losses and moving on to other prospects. Some are situations where players had a great year and want to see if they can move upward to a power 5 school that is competing for Omaha, but some of these names in the transfer portal have some nuance to their being there.
There are multiple schools with 14-15+. I’m sure there are lots of stories, but teams should not have almost 50% turnover.
@baseballhs posted:There are multiple schools with 14-15+. I’m sure there are lots of stories, but teams should not have almost 50% turnover.
I understand your point. I was looking at the school that my 2024 high school graduate is committed to. They are a low D1 program. They have 10 players in the transfer portal. Two of them are starting pitchers that just graduated and will be transferring to Power 5 schools. Two others are senior starters that I assume are looking to do the same thing, a chance to move up to a power five program. (( Edit: The other two senior position players also have announced that they are transferring to Power five schools.) I know that two of the players were cut from the roster in the fall, and I believe that they were walk on players. So, 10 players in the portal seems to be a big number, but four of them are players that have just graduated and were significant players. It appears that six of the 10 are players that are being "processed".
Our school is a top 25 D1. We have 6 (there will be more) and I wouldn’t say any left because they wanted to. One had a season ending injury in the fall and had a one year scholarship.
I count at least 45 schools with at least 10 in the portal (didn’t include high academies that may have grad students) or the many teams that had 9.
@baseballhs posted:Our school is a top 25 D1. We have 6 (there will be more) and I wouldn’t say any left because they wanted to. One had a season ending injury in the fall and had a one year scholarship.
With a few exceptions, I think that players that want to enter the portal fall into 2 categories: 1) elite players that want to move to a more high profile program and/or get paid, and 2) players that are disenchanted with their current situation (some of which are told to leave anyway). I think it will be very interesting to see how many players that are in the portal never find a new home.
Knowing a lot of players in the portal and talking to a lot of dad's, there are a lot of different situations and some teams handle things a lot differently than other teams. My son's team has a few guys in over money. They wanted more scholarship money and they are now in the portal. His team had guys go in last year and most all of them returned. Mine is in but he's talked to the coach a few times and he may end up back there too. I doubt there are many teams that handle the portal like that. I know one at another school that had a decent year who was told "we are replacing you". I know a few who were injured and had money cut. I know a few who are trying to upgrade after good years but so far it hasn't gone as planned. Summer ball is more critical for players in the portal than I realized.
Wonder how common it will be for coaches to notify players at the 11th hour (7/1) that their scholarships are being reduced.
@nycdad posted:Wonder how common it will be for coaches to notify players at the 11th hour (7/1) that their scholarships are being reduced.
I’ve seen coaches wait until after the MLB signing deadline had passed. The player decided to return for his senior year because the coach told him his scholarship was good. After the deadline passed the coach informed him he was taking his money and giving it to an incoming freshman.
I haven't kept up with the MLB signing rules, but here is a Wikipedia entry supposedly under the current CBA:
"A player who is eligible to be selected and is passed over by every club becomes a free agent and may sign with any club, up until one week before the next draft, or until the player enters, or returns to, a four-year college full-time or enters, or returns to, a junior college. In the one-week period before any draft, which is called the "closed period", the general rule is that no club may sign a new player."
The way I read this is that an undrafted college player can be signed as a FA. A coach removing any scholarship will - if the player is pro quality - lose the player to FA.
Most - like overwhelming majority of drafted juniors - know that their bonus negotiating leverage evaporates if they don't sign and wait until senior year. So, while there may be a few willing to take the 2k senior bonus instead of a higher junior year bonus, the overwhelming majority will take the junior year draft bonus.
So, an undrafted junior (now a rising senior) can sign as a FA until school begins; a drafted junior recognizes that the largest bonus (plus the MLB scholarship) strongly incentives him to sign the draft contract.
I see virtually no scenario where the withdrawal of the senior year scholarship results in that player staying at that school. In such a scenario, the coach is essentially cutting the player.
The last day to enter the portal used to be July 1. That was also the deadline for renewing scholarships. Now the last day to enter is after the draft, but I’m not sure if the renewal date moved too. I’m pretty sure kids will be told to enter at the 11th hour if some guys don’t get drafted and transfer in and I’m sure there are bubble guys that they are holding on to just in case.
We had a guy drafted last year who called the coach to talk through staying or going and was told to go because his scholarship was already gone. He was a SP.
@baseballhs posted:The last day to enter the portal used to be July 1. That was also the deadline for renewing scholarships. Now the last day to enter is after the draft, but I’m not sure if the renewal date moved too. I’m pretty sure kids will be told to enter at the 11th hour if some guys don’t get drafted and transfer in and I’m sure there are bubble guys that they are holding on to just in case.
We had a guy drafted last year who called the coach to talk through staying or going and was told to go because his scholarship was already gone. He was a SP.
Pretty much standard practice at some programs. With all the examples cited it boggles my mind that some people still don’t believe that this goes on. Or they believe it only happens to others. There is never a good time to be naive about the business side of college baseball but especially not now.
I wasn't really thinking about the draft. I am looking at it from the standpoint of a coach wanting to claw back money right before the deadline to renew scholarships.
I Know "guaranteed" scholarships at the P5 level have never really been guaranteed. No one can probably point to a kid that insisted on sticking around to collect his scholarship for multiple years, but I do think it'll be different at the lower conferences (non-P5) if a kid came in as a transfer only to have his scholarship not renewed the following year.
@Goosegg posted:I haven't kept up with the MLB signing rules, but here is a Wikipedia entry supposedly under the current CBA:
"A player who is eligible to be selected and is passed over by every club becomes a free agent and may sign with any club, up until one week before the next draft, or until the player enters, or returns to, a four-year college full-time or enters, or returns to, a junior college. In the one-week period before any draft, which is called the "closed period", the general rule is that no club may sign a new player."
The way I read this is that an undrafted college player can be signed as a FA. A coach removing any scholarship will - if the player is pro quality - lose the player to FA.
Most - like overwhelming majority of drafted juniors - know that their bonus negotiating leverage evaporates if they don't sign and wait until senior year. So, while there may be a few willing to take the 2k senior bonus instead of a higher junior year bonus, the overwhelming majority will take the junior year draft bonus.
So, an undrafted junior (now a rising senior) can sign as a FA until school begins; a drafted junior recognizes that the largest bonus (plus the MLB scholarship) strongly incentives him to sign the draft contract.
I see virtually no scenario where the withdrawal of the senior year scholarship results in that player staying at that school. In such a scenario, the coach is essentially cutting the player.
My scenario the player was a second team All American as a junior and did stay for his senior year. He was drafted again and played a few years in the minors.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:I’ve seen coaches wait until after the MLB signing deadline had passed. The player decided to return for his senior year because the coach told him his scholarship was good. After the deadline passed the coach informed him he was taking his money and giving it to an incoming freshman.
Now that player can still enter the portal after the deadline. If money is pulled, you can enter the portal any time and it doesn't count against your one time transfer.
@nycdad posted:I wasn't really thinking about the draft. I am looking at it from the standpoint of a coach wanting to claw back money right before the deadline to renew scholarships.
I Know "guaranteed" scholarships at the P5 level have never really been guaranteed. No one can probably point to a kid that insisted on sticking around to collect his scholarship for multiple years, but I do think it'll be different at the lower conferences (non-P5) if a kid came in as a transfer only to have his scholarship not renewed the following year.
And NLI's are worthless. It is crazy to me how many people don't understand it. "They can't cut him, he signed his NLI". Yeah right.
@d-mac posted:And NLI's are worthless. It is crazy to me how many people don't understand it. "They can't cut him, he signed his NLI". Yeah right.
But with the new rules that make athletic aid guaranteed during your enrollment, it'll change.
For example take a kid that goes in the portal after their soph year gets picked up by another school and gets athletic aid.
After his junior year the coach tells him to leave. I'd think you will absolutely have situations where a kid sticks around, doesn't play his senior year, and uses the aid to help pay for that final year. Odds are if he was cut after his junior year, he's likely done or close to done anyway.
If this happened to my 2022 and he was cut after his junior year, and had a guaranteed scholarship his senior year, we'd be having a serious heart to heart about him happily playing club ball his senior year.
You just really have to know the rules. I can’t believe how many parents don’t understand the rules. We have a rising senior kid transferring right now, because even though he is at a P5, he allowed the coach to trade his scholarship for NIL money his sophomore year. Now nothing is guaranteed for him going into his senior year and he has to transfer. His parents had no idea that he was guaranteed a scholarship for 4 years or that signing to give it up one year nullified that. They saw it as the same money so why does it matter. Coaches know what they are doing so parents/players need to be educated.
@baseballhs posted:You just really have to know the rules. I can’t believe how many parents don’t understand the rules. We have a rising senior kid transferring right now, because even though he is at a P5, he allowed the coach to trade his scholarship for NIL money his sophomore year. Now nothing is guaranteed for him going into his senior year and he has to transfer. His parents had no idea that he was guaranteed a scholarship for 4 years or that signing to give it up one year nullified that. They saw it as the same money so why does it matter. Coaches know what they are doing so parents/players need to be educated.
How can you trade scholarship money for NIL $$? Isn't that pay for play and isn't that illegal?
@TPM posted:How can you trade scholarship money for NIL $$? Isn't that pay for play and isn't that illegal?
I’m assuming there is a lot they consider gray area. I can only say I personally know 4-5 that have either been asked to do this or have done this. Can’t imagine it’s isolated.
NIL from a collective IS pay for play. Of course it's illegal, but they are all doing it. Technically disguising it by saying they are doing "public service announcements" or something is the most hypocritical part of the current system.
And the fact that an athlete has no rights when dealing with a collective that can make this kind of decision (of course with the coach's input, whatever the rules say) is equally disgusting. Which I said back when this stuff started.
Interesting. I am going to assume that NIL laws do not exist in certain states and that's why it's become like the wild west. I have no issue with collectives that are run properly. If I join a collective, I am going to make sure that organization is keeping in line with its intended purpose.
At most successive athletic programs, in states where there are NIL established laws, collectives, which are third party owned and operated cannot just hand out $$ to coaches to pay for tuition.
If coaches are swapping out intended scholarship $$ for NIL $$, we all know that's illegal so we should be careful what's stated, unless we know the specifics.
@anotherparent posted:And the fact that an athlete has no rights when dealing with a collective that can make this kind of decision (of course with the coach's input, whatever the rules say) is equally disgusting. Which I said back when this stuff started.
Do you believe everything that you read on a message board?
I agree parents must educate themselves not just to assume what the coach is suggesting is acceptable (I will swap you alloted scholarship dollars from my budget for money from our NIL group), but if it's really that sketchy and hearing that, than who would ever want to go play for that program?
In other words let's get the whole story, not "this is what's happening" but not sure exactly how it works.
hmm, not everyone happy with this sport fishing contest, someone should have thought through the rules before the lines were cast …
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There was tampering last year that some thought was not properly addressed by the NCAA, so I would think that this may be a serious warning.
Kendall Rogers has already said that he would notify ABCA of tampering if notified.
Kendall Rogers said he would report tampering if he was notified only if he was provided with tangible proof.
@nycdad posted:I Know "guaranteed" scholarships at the P5 level have never really been guaranteed. No one can probably point to a kid that insisted on sticking around to collect his scholarship for multiple years, but I do think it'll be different at the lower conferences (non-P5) if a kid came in as a transfer only to have his scholarship not renewed the following year.
I can name two who were cut and are currently walking around our campus with scholarships but are no longer rostered. If what I've heard is correct, one gave up money in year one to get more the rest of the way and from what it sounds like will be getting a nice discount on his MBA.
From what I understand they were kids who may not have been able to pay for college without the $$$. Transferring would have led to more school for more money as not all the credits would have transferred.
But they also had to give up baseball.
How does the process work once the window closes? If a player entered can they still work through the process to find another school? Is there any deadline for that, of course enrolling in the school maybe the deadline. If the player decides to stay at their current school, do they have to inform the NCAA or do anything?
@everypitch posted:How does the process work once the window closes? If a player entered can they still work through the process to find another school? Is there any deadline for that, of course enrolling in the school maybe the deadline. If the player decides to stay at their current school, do they have to inform the NCAA or do anything?
The deadline just establishes the last day to enter the portal.
There are so many unintended consequences as a result of the portal. One that hasn’t been discussed on this board (at least I haven’t seen it) is how kids are playing in summer collegiate leagues. I just spoke to a good friend that is a JuCo HC and also a HC in the Coastal Plains League. He said that he has noticed that players in the portal (for the most part) refuse to play team baseball. They are only worried about themselves. They ignore take signs and swing whenever the want. Lay down a bunt in a key situation? Nope. No way. Sorry coach, I missed the sign. Unbelievable.
Adbono,
College Coaches and Pro Scouts have an amazing network. It is the CIA of baseball. It has been in baseball for 80 years.
Bob
@Consultant posted:Adbono,
College Coaches and Pro Scouts have an amazing network. It is the CIA of baseball. It has been in baseball for 80 years.
Bob
I’m well aware of that but you make an excellent point. The scout or future coach will see the selfishness and that will work to the players’ detriment. It always pays off to do the right thing.