Order a scout today, be there tomorrow???

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

BrianTRC posted:

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

"... rather, professionals who held a voice in the acquisition of talent for MLB clubs for decades."

Sounds like former scouts.

Sounds like the feedback you get from the guy you take lessons from or what showcases have evolved into. Some might be useful but generally rose colored stuff all in the name of marketing. 

Are you charging for your services?  Unless your charging a huge fee I can't see a profit model here.  You will need to sit around for a couple of hours to see a kid bat 3 or 4 times.  Say you charge $500 a game.  I would want you there the entire game to see every at bat and every play.  Which means you will be putting 3 hours in for my kid.  I would also not want you looking at or providing evals for other kids while I was paying you.  What if my kid does not get a significant amount of playing time while you are there, would you be willing to come to a 2nd game.  In essence you are making about $150 an hour.

I think a better model would be to charge a couple of hundred a kid for a very small showcase type camp.  Say 10 kids at $200 run through a showcase type camp with a full eval afterwards that includes a sit down with the kid and parents to throughly go through the eval.  You could probably run through 10 kids in the morning, take a break and run through another 10 kids in the afternoon.  In an 8 hour day you can see 20 kids, bringing in $4000 in revenue netting you $500 an hour.

BrianTRC posted:

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

Yes, professional scouts who held a voice with a club (or clubs) for years and years. I won't comment on the value or experience of other services.

joes87 posted:

Are you charging for your services?  Unless your charging a huge fee I can't see a profit model here.  You will need to sit around for a couple of hours to see a kid bat 3 or 4 times.  Say you charge $500 a game.  I would want you there the entire game to see every at bat and every play.  Which means you will be putting 3 hours in for my kid.  I would also not want you looking at or providing evals for other kids while I was paying you.  What if my kid does not get a significant amount of playing time while you are there, would you be willing to come to a 2nd game.  In essence you are making about $150 an hour.

I think a better model would be to charge a couple of hundred a kid for a very small showcase type camp.  Say 10 kids at $200 run through a showcase type camp with a full eval afterwards that includes a sit down with the kid and parents to throughly go through the eval.  You could probably run through 10 kids in the morning, take a break and run through another 10 kids in the afternoon.  In an 8 hour day you can see 20 kids, bringing in $4000 in revenue netting you $500 an hour.

Third-party services and, yes, charging for the service. When you consider prospects are spending thousands per year, this may/should eliminate many of those costs. And, yes, one-on-one follows only who pick your child up from BP (if held) all the way through the last game until your child leaves the park.

Showcase camps limit scouting observations. What velo a player throws from a bullpen mound isn't as important as how he attacks hitters in a game; or a POP time from a coach on an empty field isn't as valuable as what his POP time is during a game; or how fast a player runs a 60 in a combine isn't as important as how fast they get of the box and cross first in a game; all as examples.

Real scouts, during real games = real evaluations = best development plans available.

Thoughts?

FFXfireman posted:

BrianTRC posted:

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

"... rather, professionals who held a voice in the acquisition of talent for MLB clubs for decades."

Sounds like former scouts.

Yes sir. The industry isn't using them so...

4seamer posted:

BrianTRC posted:

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

Yes, professional scouts who held a voice with a club (or clubs) for years and years. I won't comment on the value or experience of other services.

I think this is just another service for the uneducated parent willing to spend $$$$$ to have someone tell them their kid is a prospect. What will they do after an 0-4 day?....oh he had a rough day can you come back again? Yes, for $$$$$

Does someone really need to pay a scout if they're good enough to be scouted by professionals? 

Also, pro scouts often have a lack of understanding of certain college levels. They can identify pro talent, but what about the kid who is not a pro prospect and isn't sure where he fits at the college level. Can they tell you the type of school you could potentially fit at? 

Personally I don't see the market being people who aren't sure if their kid is a pro prospect. The market is a clueless parent who really thinks their kid has a chance then they're not even in the same ballpark. 

> I think this is just another service for the uneducated parent willing to spend $$$$$ to have someone tell them their kid is a prospect. What will they do after an 0-4 day?....oh he had a rough day can you come back again? Yes, for $$$$$

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Scouts don't evaluate stats... they evaluate tools. Tools either exist or they don't. 

> Also, pro scouts often have a lack of understanding of certain college levels. They can identify pro talent, but what about the kid who is not a pro prospect and isn't sure where he fits at the college level. Can they tell you the type of school you could potentially fit at? 

That simply isn't true. Professional scouts understand the talent required for every and any college level. And your evaluation would help guide you in that process.

> Personally I don't see the market being people who aren't sure if their kid is a pro prospect. The market is a clueless parent who really thinks their kid has a chance then they're not even in the same ballpark. 

The market is for ANY parent wanting an objective analysis of their child's potential.

I personally would not be interested, but  I'm sure you can find some parent that will enjoy paying for someone to tell their son he's the next Bryce Harper!

So, if the "former scout" determines the boy isn't going pro, I guess the parents pack it up - no more lessons, no showcases, and no baseball? Or, if the "former scout" determines the boy has pro potential, the parents decide to up his commitment? As another poster noted, evaluating pro potential and college potential may not overlap. Is the "former scout" also a former RC or college HC? And, why isn't the "former scout" also teaching? 

As to the point that observing the entire "game" a kid brings is better then the showcase velo, the game time pop, or running out an actual ball, that's nice - AND exactly what a scout does before a player is drafted. No scout who remains employed long uses pure showcase numbers in determining if a kid is drafted. Showcases can put a kid on the radar; but a single look in that format doesn't get a kid drafted. My S was drafted out of a very small non-baseball HS as a smallish LHP; scouts attended EVERY home and away game his senior season (he did no showcases and only played scout ball as travel); they watched whatever scouts watch to define his heart, head (I have no clue what they look for), and game. My point is, even a late round throw away pick was seen in depth.

Perhaps you are simply offering a business plan in which a former pro scout (which is not part of the developmental personnel employed by each organization) draws up a long term written plan for the kid based upon repeated in depth views at actual games. To me an expensive and uncertain approach - for example, will the scout be familiar with the unique physiology each player has (fast arm, short arm, stiff hips, super loose, etc) and of which the kid's PC's are aware; or will the written report be generic (like a horoscope or most camp evaluations).

I used the money to get S a personal coach who did the exact same thing ("evaluate") AND teach AND mentor, AND who used his contacts to various colleges, AND who alerted local scouts AND who coached the local scout team.  And, for less than the idea presented here on a per diem basis. Since in my area there are several such people, I don't see the demand in San Diego.

I guess if a family has unlimited money, why not waste a bit - playing on fear, worry, paranoia, and insecurity can actually bottom a business plan.

4seamer posted:

> I think this is just another service for the uneducated parent willing to spend $$$$$ to have someone tell them their kid is a prospect. What will they do after an 0-4 day?....oh he had a rough day can you come back again? Yes, for $$$$$

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Scouts don't evaluate stats... they evaluate tools. Tools either exist or they don't. 

> Also, pro scouts often have a lack of understanding of certain college levels. They can identify pro talent, but what about the kid who is not a pro prospect and isn't sure where he fits at the college level. Can they tell you the type of school you could potentially fit at? 

That simply isn't true. Professional scouts understand the talent required for every and any college level. And your evaluation would help guide you in that process.

> Personally I don't see the market being people who aren't sure if their kid is a pro prospect. The market is a clueless parent who really thinks their kid has a chance then they're not even in the same ballpark. 

The market is for ANY parent wanting an objective analysis of their child's potential.

The stat line is my point exactly.  Scout will see what he needs in an 0-4 day or a 4-4 day, but parents won't understand that, or accept that.  

I disagree with the pro scouts understanding college levels.  Same way college coaches don't always understand pro levels.  If you have access to pro scouts who know the ins and outs of the college levels, then you have an excellent and superior resource.  

I love the idea of an objective third party analysis from someone with no agenda as far as where the player ends up at the next level.  Love it enough that it's what I do for a living. 

Attend a PG showcase!

4seamer posted:

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Hire+independent=oxymoron

I mean really, as soon as monies are exchanged independence goes out the window.

Mr and Miss Smith, your son lacks physical stature, isn't athletic, has no real skills, and no chance of playing ball past 8th grade. That will be $600. Yeah people will line up for that.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

4seamer posted:

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Hire+independent=oxymoron

I mean really, as soon as monies are exchanged independence goes out the window.

Mr and Miss Smith, your son lacks physical stature, isn't athletic, has no real skills, and no chance of playing ball past 8th grade. That will be $600. Yeah people will line up for that.

Any professional scout will be happy to give anyone an independent evaluation. Also pro scouts have relationships with college coaches and can identify for their program. College coaches have scouts everywhere evaluating players for them.

TPM posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

4seamer posted:

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Hire+independent=oxymoron

I mean really, as soon as monies are exchanged independence goes out the window.

Mr and Miss Smith, your son lacks physical stature, isn't athletic, has no real skills, and no chance of playing ball past 8th grade. That will be $600. Yeah people will line up for that.

Any professional scout will be happy to give anyone an independent evaluation. Also pro scouts have relationships with college coaches and can identify for their program. College coaches have scouts everywhere evaluating players for them.

I highly doubt this guy's target market is the college player pool. He's probably looking to evaluate high school age and younger, the sweet spot for parents who want to get their kid to the next level. I don't know about the impact it would have on a player getting recruited, because as I am learning most college coaches want to see the kid themselves. Sure, recommendations are great, but the kid is still going to have to Showcase, play high profile tournaments etc to get in front of the coaches they are interested in. OP stated families are paying thousands doing this, which is true, but I don't see his service eliminating the need to still go to these events.

So you are sayin that someone here in Florida is doing this?  If thats the case, attend a camp at UF, FSU, UM for excellent evaluations, not to mention instruction. Thats all a young player needs to learn what it takes to play at the highest levels of college ball, as many of those players possess pro talent as well.

Or they can go get an evaluation at the Baseball Ranch in Lakeland. That guy is awesome.

This is Florida where scouts attend many games looking for the next Bryce Harper! 

BTW, you do actually understand how very, very hard it is to get drafted and play at the highest level.

TPM posted:

So you are sayin that someone here in Florida is doing this?  If thats the case, attend a camp at UF, FSU, UM for excellent evaluations, not to mention instruction. Thats all a young player needs to learn what it takes to play at the highest levels of college ball, as many of those players possess pro talent as well.

Or they can go get an evaluation at the Baseball Ranch in Lakeland. That guy is awesome.

This is Florida where scouts attend many games looking for the next Bryce Harper! 

BTW, you do actually understand how very, very hard it is to get drafted and play at the highest level.

Who are you talking to, TPM? I think everyone on this board knows.

To the OP.

4seamer posted:

Imagine - being able to call today and have a pro scout dispatched to your child's next tournament, or next week's high school games, for an evaluation? 

In other words, a third-party PROFESSIONAL scouting service you can dispatch at anytime.

Would there be any interest?

OP, dispatched?.... you mean like Uber? or the maytag repair man? 

So, 1) it's not cost effective, 2) Scheduling issues, as in 2-3+ kids "booked" for same time frame, but different area of town/county/state. 

Seems kind of bass-akwards to me. 

TPM posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

4seamer posted:

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Hire+independent=oxymoron

I mean really, as soon as monies are exchanged independence goes out the window.

Mr and Miss Smith, your son lacks physical stature, isn't athletic, has no real skills, and no chance of playing ball past 8th grade. That will be $600. Yeah people will line up for that.

Any professional scout will be happy to give anyone an independent evaluation. Also pro scouts have relationships with college coaches and can identify for their program. College coaches have scouts everywhere evaluating players for them.

Exactly TPM... professional scouts have built an extensive network of trust in collegiate circles over their decades of work for clubs. The Lakeland Ranch or UF type camps are one avenue, a professional scout is another. All three come with costs.  

SanDiegoRealist posted:

TPM posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

4seamer posted:

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Hire+independent=oxymoron

I mean really, as soon as monies are exchanged independence goes out the window.

Mr and Miss Smith, your son lacks physical stature, isn't athletic, has no real skills, and no chance of playing ball past 8th grade. That will be $600. Yeah people will line up for that.

Any professional scout will be happy to give anyone an independent evaluation. Also pro scouts have relationships with college coaches and can identify for their program. College coaches have scouts everywhere evaluating players for them.

I highly doubt this guy's target market is the college player pool. He's probably looking to evaluate high school age and younger, the sweet spot for parents who want to get their kid to the next level. I don't know about the impact it would have on a player getting recruited, because as I am learning most college coaches want to see the kid themselves. Sure, recommendations are great, but the kid is still going to have to Showcase, play high profile tournaments etc to get in front of the coaches they are interested in. OP stated families are paying thousands doing this, which is true, but I don't see his service eliminating the need to still go to these events.

The market is 13 - 14 (baseline evaluations) and up (short form unless a stud we'll long form). We also privately and anonymously long form a college player or semi-pro for their personal information. Not looking to impact recruiting - we're looking to impact retention in the game (we're seeing larger numbers dropping out earlier and earlier) and education for the parents (development path). We only do evaluations... we don't get involved in recruiting programs or development programs. We're finding that most families prefer the college route to the pro route out of HS and many college coaches accept our scouts recommendation/evaluations so eliminating the expensive third party showcase route is possible, although not probable today. In the near-future, yes. 

baseballmom posted:

4seamer posted:

Imagine - being able to call today and have a pro scout dispatched to your child's next tournament, or next week's high school games, for an evaluation? 

In other words, a third-party PROFESSIONAL scouting service you can dispatch at anytime.

Would there be any interest?

OP, dispatched?.... you mean like Uber? or the maytag repair man? 

So, 1) it's not cost effective, 2) Scheduling issues, as in 2-3+ kids "booked" for same time frame, but different area of town/county/state. 

Seems kind of bass-akwards to me. 

haha - yes, scouts are 'dispatched' to your child's games. As for the cost effectiveness, that's for each family to decide. We believe many will find the service to be well within their budget. No other player is booked for evaluation at the same time - only your child is followed. The service has many, many scouts so quite a few areas can have players seen at the same time, yes. 

Grindneverstop posted:

I personally would not be interested, but  I'm sure you can find some parent that will enjoy paying for someone to tell their son he's the next Bryce Harper!

Parents pay to clearly define their child's needed development path to reach their ultimate goal, not to be told their child is or isn't the next Bryce Harper. 

Please pm me name of the company. Thanks

And people wonder why baseball is becoming a "Country Club" sport.

This so reminds me of Bubba's Baseball Bonanza. For those unfamiliar, here's the link, http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/bubba.htm. For Greg Legg's editorial, please read this: http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/legg_editorial.htm

I'm an ancient "oldtimer"...I found this site when son was 12-13...I read, read, read...everything! And, honestly, thru the next few years,  we had no problem "getting an honest evaluation" from scouts (birdogs to Cross Checkers). Along the way (I think 2003), someone contacted Perfect Game...At the time, I had never heard of them or "showcases"...But just kept on reading & asking questions of a few very well trusted folks here on HSbaseballweb, including Gregg Legg (Bama Bomber), One Pitcher's Pop, Fungo, TPM, Bighit15, who had or were going thru the same process with their sons... Long story short, this site & that handful of knowledgeable folks, a PG showcase or 2, a few WWBA tourneys, his great travel coach...contributed significantly. One thing led to another...Things have turned out well! Son got a great scholarship, great education, & is in 7th year of pro career. A few ups & downs in his journey, but so blessed! 

I just don't see any need to re-invent the wheel...

"retention in the game"??? Don't see how a paid evaluation would keep kids playing...Either it's "his game" or it isn't! He will let his parents know soon enough.

Educating parents???

Send them here!!! There is NO BETTER PLACE in the universe for parents to learn all about evaluations, recruiting, pros & cons of showcasing, and so much more! Even Scouts come here! 

Ok I thought this post was tongue in cheek. Now I am confused. Is someone actually doing this?  This is crazy. There is no limit to how stupid baseball parents will be with their money. If no one is currently scouting you...  odds are pretty good you don't need a scout!!!

baseballmom posted:

This so reminds me of Bubba's Baseball Bonanza. For those unfamiliar, here's the link, http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/bubba.htm. For Greg Legg's editorial, please read this: http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/legg_editorial.htm

I'm an ancient "oldtimer"...I found this site when son was 12-13...I read, read, read...everything! And, honestly, thru the next few years,  we had no problem "getting an honest evaluation" from scouts (birdogs to Cross Checkers). Along the way (I think 2003), someone contacted Perfect Game...At the time, I had never heard of them or "showcases"...But just kept on reading & asking questions of a few very well trusted folks here on HSbaseballweb, including Gregg Legg (Bama Bomber), One Pitcher's Pop, Fungo, TPM, Bighit15, who had or were going thru the same process with their sons... Long story short, this site & that handful of knowledgeable folks, a PG showcase or 2, a few WWBA tourneys, his great travel coach...contributed significantly. One thing led to another...Things have turned out well! Son got a great scholarship, great education, & is in 7th year of pro career. A few ups & downs in his journey, but so blessed! 

I just don't see any need to re-invent the wheel...

"retention in the game"??? Don't see how a paid evaluation would keep kids playing...Either it's "his game" or it isn't! He will let his parents know soon enough.

Educating parents???

Send them here!!! There is NO BETTER PLACE in the universe for parents to learn all about evaluations, recruiting, pros & cons of showcasing, and so much more! Even Scouts come here! 

 

I strongly agree with baseballmom.  

I didn't get the sense this was for "is my kid draft material".  Moreover, a private skill-capabilities-tool evaluation for a fee by a former Scout.  There could be value due to many families spending huge dollars on varied showcases and camps without having a clue that there kid isn't college or specific D1 college material.  Could help families reduce big picture costs, and convey a sense of sanity: your kid is not that good, go on a vacation, or the family and player will learn it could make more sense to spend money on development.

Most camps don't provide a written evaluation, if they do provide one it's rare that it provides analysis and suggestions for development.  If any camp eval is provided it will normally state your stats and a one liner: "keep up the good work, we hope to see you at the next Duke Camp".  PG provides nice writeups regarding skills, tools, and measurables.  But honestly if I'm questioning at all if my kid is as good as I think, he thinks, the coach thinks, I'd appreciate a private objective assessment.  

I think there could be a market with $150-200 being the sweetspot for a Scout to come watch a game and provide a report with detail analysis and development suggestions.  The report will tell the family and player if there are any or what type of skill-tools that project to what level of college or higher.  Paying this fee saves the family from splurging on the two upcoming $300-500 camps plus travel.  This could force the motivated player and supportive family to again, focus on development, and maybe attend that showcase 6 months out... 

If 4Seam is thinking about charging more than that I wouldn't be interested.  I can afford it, it makes sense, but more than $150-200 and I'd say NO.  In our case we've always been so development focused, but along the way, I would have paid this fee as a sanity check.  Most families have zero clue about development or if there kid could play beyond high school let alone make the Varsity Team.

Just my .02

Gov posted:

I didn't get the sense this was for "is my kid draft material".  Moreover, a private skill-capabilities-tool evaluation for a fee by a former Scout.  There could be value due to many families spending huge dollars on varied showcases and camps without having a clue that there kid isn't college or specific D1 college material.  Could help families reduce big picture costs, and convey a sense of sanity: your kid is not that good, go on a vacation, or the family and player will learn it could make more sense to spend money on development.

Most camps don't provide a written evaluation, if they do provide one it's rare that it provides analysis and suggestions for development.  If any camp eval is provided it will normally state your stats and a one liner: "keep up the good work, we hope to see you at the next Duke Camp".  PG provides nice writeups regarding skills, tools, and measurables.  But honestly if I'm questioning at all if my kid is as good as I think, he thinks, the coach thinks, I'd appreciate a private objective assessment.  

I think there could be a market with $150-200 being the sweetspot for a Scout to come watch a game and provide a report with detail analysis and development suggestions.  The report will tell the family and player if there are any or what type of skill-tools that project to what level of college or higher.  Paying this fee saves the family from splurging on the two upcoming $300-500 camps plus travel.  This could force the motivated player and supportive family to again, focus on development, and maybe attend that showcase 6 months out... 

If 4Seam is thinking about charging more than that I wouldn't be interested.  I can afford it, it makes sense, but more than $150-200 and I'd say NO.  In our case we've always been so development focused, but along the way, I would have paid this fee as a sanity check.  Most families have zero clue about development or if there kid could play beyond high school let alone make the Varsity Team.

Just my .02

I agree with this too. Keep the cost reasonable.

I appreciate the cost feedback - that's why I posted the thread hoping for positive ideas.

Interesting concept and I completely understand your value proposition to parents.  Basically, don't get suckered into spending $300-$500 for camps and showcases that are designed to create a goodwill relationship with you as a means to get you to return to their next "pay to play" event.  Baseball Factory is one of the first that comes to mind for me.

So your business model is that the parent will pay $xxx once to your service to come in and provide an "objective", no holds barred evaluation which the parent can then use to spend their money more wisely and not continue to throw good money after bad.

IF you can truly remain objective and not ultimately be driven by the market to begin telling parents what they want to hear so that you don't get bashed to the point that your service becomes poison, it makes sense.  I do suspect that some level of objectivity would be lost as you would begin to protect a longer term business interest.  I also believe that your service would ultimately never result in the goal you desire, which would be to prevent parents from "having" to spend money on multiple camps and showcases when their kid really isn't at the level they believe.  I believe that the parents of a player who receives that "probably need to buy a pair of soccer shoes" evaluation from your service is going to simply chase another evaluation, camp or showcase until they get the answer they're seeking.

I get what you're trying to do, and I believe the market is there, but I don't think it will achieve what you hope and you may struggle to remain objective to sustain your long term business interest.

I guess people must not know that we have many former MLB scouts on our staff and we have had several others.  This includes a former assistant Scouting Director that worked in the front office for the Astros.  Also that we have trained over a dozen other young guys that now work for MLB organizations including three that have become Crosscheckers.  We also have former college coaches and have some former MLB players working for us.  And we give our honest opinion and grade/ranking.

That said,  I see nothing wrong with a former MLB scout evaluating a player.  But in order to accurately evaluate a player you need to get certain measurables and that will take a workout. (Unless it is a pitcher). No scout can depend on going to a game and getting enough information to know for certain everything he needs to know.  Even college teams will hold pro scout days so scouts can get measurables.  Even Predraft workouts are very important.  

Truth is no one could ever know enough from a workout or tryout alone.  And no one could ever know everything by watching a game.  It takes both before a scout gets what he really needs to feel sure about a player.  The more you see the more accurate you are likely to be.  That is why the top prospects are followed so closely.  By the time they get drafted, many scouts from an organization will see them many times.

One thing for sure, any experienced scout certainly would have a very good idea of what level of college a player could contribute at.  I actually think this is a good idea depending how qualified the scout is.  Not sure people understand that there are pro scouts out there that we would never hire.  There are a lot of great scouts, but just like everything else, it's not like every scout is a good scout.  Also, it's not like every scout will tell a player and his parents what he truly thinks.  He might NP (No Prospect) a player and tell  his boss why, but he isn't likely to tell a parent that their son can't play HS or above level.

I think the right guy (former MLB full time scout with years of experience) could be extremely helpful and maybe even do well.  If it were me, think I would set up a place where players came to me rather than travel all over the place.  Or at least make sure I was reimbursed for travel time and expense.

Nuke83, I don't think it could be a situation of "pay once"...Think about it...13-14 yr olds change alot in just a few months. Son grew 11" in 1 yr at that age...He was awkward as an ostrich...all legs & arms...just grappling with coordination...feet shooting out the end of cleats in 5 mo...Then once that growth spurt settles down a little, there will be other changes...so another eval next year, then again, & again...So now the kid is sophomore - junior...and you've been out 3-4-5 evals @ $150-$200 a pop???

That's a bunch of pitching lessons, or swings in a cage...or a showcase...or a WWBA tourney...

Parents need to pay attention, take off rose colored glasses, smell the coffee, do their homework...A LOT of homework! And develop a network of trusted advisers, folks who have walked in your shoes. 

Sons' pitching coach was a former MLB'er, so he got evaluated several times...True, we paid for the lessons...so we paid for the eval...But believe me, if sons' DESIRE & love of the game & competitive spirit + his  talent, tools & projectability weren't there, we would have had no reason to pursue it...

I think back on the kids on all the teams he played on from abt 10 yrs of age. Every year, more than a few dropped out, especially 12-15 yr olds.  Of his HS group (all 4 yrs), a handful went on to play college ball or were drafted each year. Of his College team 3-4 are still playing in the pros...just natural attrition...

Just my opinion, but based on experience, I'd be hesitant to use this kind of service. I'd be hesitant to form this kind of business...

4seamer,

You have gotten some good feedback. I really think that the title of this topic made it sound a bit like a scam.

Hope that this helps.

Nuke83 posted:

... I believe that the parents of a player who receives that "probably need to buy a pair of soccer shoes" evaluation from your service is going to simply chase another evaluation, camp or showcase until they get the answer they're seeking.

Great point Nuke83. That said, if we do our job correctly we hope they will chase better development methods instead.  

PGStaff posted:

... But in order to accurately evaluate a player you need to get certain measurables and that will take a workout... And no one could ever know everything by watching a game...

... I think the right guy (former MLB full time scout with years of experience) could be extremely helpful and maybe even do well...

I respectfully disagree with your first part that workouts are a more accurate measure of tools, although I do agree with your general premise that longer follows may indicate tool consistency. 

Remember, the idea here is to identify tools, project them, and then measure them against the player's ultimate goal to then formulate a development plan for that player. Call it their blueprint for success.