TPM posted:4seamer,
You have gotten some good feedback. I really think that the title of this topic made it sound a bit like a scam.
Hope that this helps.
Thank you TPM... good advice.
4Seamer,
I have no interest in arguing about these things, and in general this is a good idea. However, a players goal has nothing to do with an accurate evaluation. So any advice would have to be geared towards improvement rather than reaching a young person's goals. Most kids don't have realistic goals. I'm guessing that is what you mean.
As a scout surely you have held some tryouts. Surely you have gone to a game and left disappointed in what you saw. I can go to a game and never see everything I need to see. Three ABs... One K and three walks. SS gets one ground ball that is routine. In a showcase event, I'm going to see BP and see plate appearances against high level pitching and his exit velocity. I'm going to see him field ground balls in all directions and see his body control charging the ball. I will get his arm velocity. I'm going to get his 60 yd time, his 10 yd time and his H-1 times. I will see his actions and I'm also going to see the way he conducts himself and how he reacts to situations. I will be able to put an accurate grade on all the tools I saw that day. Which if done correctly will be all the tools necessary.
Not downplaying the importance of watching him compete on a team. This is equally important and in some cases maybe even more important in the end. But if I had to turn in a report based on tools alone... I would always want to workout a player.
Bottomline... Both are very important in order to properly evaluate a player. One without the other is incomplete. If a player is a true early draft prospect it didn't happen because one person saw him play one game. You want to know as much as possible about that player. You want him to workout, you want to see many games.
Seeing I don't know you or the scouts participating, I take it that you are a former scout. So if that is the case, I would think you would agree with all of the above.
I think the plan you're talking about might work. FWIW, Might work even better if the scout comes in early and has a chance to work the player out and then watch the game. To me this service would be worth a lot more if I were a parent. Best of luck! And if you ever find someone that is extra special, please let us know.
Ok now that I realize this is serious... 4seemer I think it is a decent idea from an income standpoint. Baseball parents are crazy and they will pay for any gimmick that comes down the pike. As The Godfather says "makes no difference to me how a man makes a living". But if you are already financially secure (none of my business) and don't really need this income I would just ask you to think if you really want to be part of what is becoming borderline unethical practices in youth baseball. We don't do paid lessons, haven't showcased yet, don't pay for personal trainers or anything else. Wish we had the money actually for the personal trainer that is where most of us should be spending. But point is so many parents are so blindly hopeful they pay for all these things and then some. Just had an organization which is gaining some notoriety so I will not mention their name come to our organization for tryouts for some obscure 'national team'. Coincidentally most kids picked were from families that will probably pay the rather large price for the privilege. If I showed you showcase results from a couple kids who made this 'national team' you would fall over. Parents want to believe and will fall for just about anything. If you were to do this honestly and objectively I would propose you need to actually raise the price and do even more than PG suggests. I think you need in game action, pro style workout and video analysis coupled with an extremely specific plan including health, nutrition, strength and fitness, specific mechanical adjustments with prioritization as in fix this first then this then etc. you would have to test strength so would need a fitness workout as well. In short you would have to spend an entire day with this kid compiling tons of information. Then go back to headquarters if you will, maybe even share video with other 'experts' to get a consensus. Then formulate the plan and send it to the customer with video analysis/comments along with your written evaluation. So what is all that worth? $1000? More? Any $200 package is not going to address enough and will be just another in the long line of youth baseball scams. I hope your heart is in the right place. Hope you don't want to be just another snake oil salesman. We have far too many in baseball now. They get none of my money. But maybe I am passing on something somewhere along the line that would really help my son because I have become so leery of these scam artists. So if you really want to do this and provide true value it needs to be high priced and packed with real value. And I will be honest with you if there were a service out there that would analyze my son up one end and down the other and give us a SPECIFIC AND ACTIONABLE plan we can follow on our own... I may get just drop the G note. I would love to have a fitness and nutrition plan. But all these guys want you to come to them and won't just sell you a plan (an authentic and personalized plan). So there could be value for a one stop shopping service. Then I think you make money and feel good about the way you are doing it. Good luck and be one of the few good ones please.
I am going to start this by saying, I am not your target audience as my son is no longer in the recruiting pipeline, and, when he was, I educated myself on the recruiting process pretty early on....
I can see some value here, but it needs to be done right and the price point needs to be properly set. I realize that families spend thousands of dollars a year on travel teams, coaches, equipment, hotel rooms, etc but the product still needs to be priced correctly to attract the widest audience possible.
One thing that I as a parent would want to understand are the credentials of the scouts being sent. Are they legit MLB scouts? I do know of a guy who goes around calling himself an MLB scout. In reality he is a bird dog who has referred a couple of local players he knows to his neighbor who is an actual local paid scout. Neither of these referrals have panned out. He maintains paid scout accounts with PG and PBR. According to him all of this makes him a legitimate scout. If Im paying for a service I would want to make sure that the scout I am getting is a legit guy and not someone who is a quasi-scout.
You know 4seamer the more I now think about this the more I think you should sell your idea to PG. they have almost everything you need in place already. You could add fitness and nutrition guys to the mix. Charge $1000 for a showcase weekend that includes deeper analysis and action plan. Now if I could go to PG and play a couple games, get all the tracman measurables, 60 times etc PLUS a nutrition, strength and fitness plan SPECIFICALLY designed for my son, plus a video analysis and written evaluation/projection and a PG profile... I guarantee you I am in for the G Note.
4seamer posted
Remember, the idea here is to identify tools, project them, and then measure them against the player's ultimate goal to then formulate a development plan for that player. Call it their blueprint for success.
Our experience, as parents, was that sons' travel coach & pitching coach were perfectly able to "formulate a development plan" for our son, which was include in the cost of the league fee &/or pitching lessons.
I'm sure many, if not all, the folks who responded, would tend to agree.
Curious...what is the "commission" split between dispatcher & dispatched? Where/how are you recruiting clients?
joes87 posted:... One thing that I as a parent would want to understand are the credentials of the scouts being sent. Are they legit MLB scouts? I do know of a guy who goes around calling himself an MLB scout. In reality he is a bird dog who has referred a couple of local players he knows to his neighbor who is an actual local paid scout. Neither of these referrals have panned out. He maintains paid scout accounts with PG and PBR. According to him all of this makes him a legitimate scout. If Im paying for a service I would want to make sure that the scout I am getting is a legit guy and not someone who is a quasi-scout.
You make a great point. No associate level scouts on our staff... no ex-coaches, no ex-players, no wannabe scouts, no college players, no interns, etc. Just 100% vetted professionals who have been with a club for three or more years, although the average experience of our guys is more than two decades.
baseballmom posted:4seamer posted
Remember, the idea here is to identify tools, project them, and then measure them against the player's ultimate goal to then formulate a development plan for that player. Call it their blueprint for success.Our experience, as parents, was that sons' travel coach & pitching coach were perfectly able to "formulate a development plan" for our son, which was include in the cost of the league fee &/or pitching lessons.
I'm sure many, if not all, the folks who responded, would tend to agree.
Curious...what is the "commission" split between dispatcher & dispatched? Where/how are you recruiting clients?
To some parents, their development network is all they need. I respect that. To others, they may want to be sure that the guys they are paying a weekly check to aren't just telling them what the parents want to hear so they keep writing checks.
baseballmom posted:4seamer posted
Remember, the idea here is to identify tools, project them, and then measure them against the player's ultimate goal to then formulate a development plan for that player. Call it their blueprint for success.Our experience, as parents, was that sons' travel coach & pitching coach were perfectly able to "formulate a development plan" for our son, which was include in the cost of the league fee &/or pitching lessons.
I'm sure many, if not all, the folks who responded, would tend to agree.
Curious...what is the "commission" split between dispatcher & dispatched? Where/how are you recruiting clients?
I'd disagree with you BaseballMom... we found that there are very few travel coach's and instructors committed to development. They talk about it, but nothing happens. Which is why it's incumbent on the parent to get dialed into: "is your kid any good, could he play at a higher level, and does he have the desire-work ethic to develop to get to that level. The parent needs to network to find a travel program committed to developing players and sees a fit for your son/player.
The majority of travel teams, coaches, and instructors are just rolling from one instruction session or one season to another. They like to coach or instruct, and doing so, provides supplemental income and they get their quick fix being involved with baseball, but they don't have the time or desire to get immersed with a questionable committed kid and disconnected parent. An objective 3rd party evaluation could provide realistic feedback as to what level of tools a player may have. This could be eye opening to both player and parent. But in line with what PGStaff said, there needs to some skills testing documented to support the final evaluation. This combination would be the most valuable to the player and parent. Skills testing is a key piece of data colleges use to filter to desired players. This is a key offering by PG. But 4Seamer could scout a kid for tools, provide the writeup, then set up a separate skill testing event at $50 per kid, then combine both in a detailed write up. The skills testing could be in an economic group format. I think this could help families save money in the long run.
There are a lot of families spending money on showcases-camps too early in the baseball timeline... it's wasted money. We were at a couple of college showcases two weeks ago that were appropriate for 2018 and 2019's; I couldn't believe the number of 2020 families paying $500 for a two day event and traveling a 1000 miles to attend, travel cost plus hotel... wow! It sure wasn't a family vacation time for 9th graders and I didn't get the sense they were high disposable income families.
I think there's a market for a $150-$200 professional Scout eval, combined with a $50.00 witnessed skill testing. Wrap both up in a final evaluation and you have something worthwhile to players and families. It would be extemely helpful if the Scout involved was able to guide families/players to a few baseball programs in their area that are committed to development
(apologies if a bit disjointed, gotta run, will edit later...)
JMO
2020dad posted:You know 4seamer the more I now think about this the more I think you should sell your idea to PG. they have almost everything you need in place already. You could add fitness and nutrition guys to the mix. Charge $1000 for a showcase weekend that includes deeper analysis and action plan. Now if I could go to PG and play a couple games, get all the tracman measurables, 60 times etc PLUS a nutrition, strength and fitness plan SPECIFICALLY designed for my son, plus a video analysis and written evaluation/projection and a PG profile... I guarantee you I am in for the G Note.
As a player's parent, do you have the ability to obtain the raw Trackman data for your minor child? Or, do you sign the rights away when you play in a tournament that has a Trackman on the field? Maybe they post leader boards or something like that to keep parents happy?
Anyway, radar tracking devices like Trackman and Flightscope bring an exciting element to the scouting table but are years away from use in the everyday high school realm. But if we could instead figure out how to bring Statcast to high school baseball fields all over the country we'd make a fortune, huh?
Gov posted:baseballmom posted:4seamer posted
Remember, the idea here is to identify tools, project them, and then measure them against the player's ultimate goal to then formulate a development plan for that player. Call it their blueprint for success.Our experience, as parents, was that sons' travel coach & pitching coach were perfectly able to "formulate a development plan" for our son, which was include in the cost of the league fee &/or pitching lessons.
I'm sure many, if not all, the folks who responded, would tend to agree.
Curious...what is the "commission" split between dispatcher & dispatched? Where/how are you recruiting clients?
... There are a lot of families spending money on showcases-camps too early in the baseball timeline... it's wasted money.
... It would be extemely helpful if the Scout involved was able to guide families/players to a few baseball programs in their area that are committed to development
BINGO! This is exactly the problem we're seeing all across the country. And, yes, scouts need to remain available to the parents after their evaluation. Agreed!
On the other side of the coin, colleges - including D1's, are reaching down and offering verbals to 14's.. even some 13's. It's being said that 13 is the new 15. I don't agree - yet - but if the NCAA continues to allow this practice without any regard to the higher number of decommitments, well...
I have to say I am your demographic, 14 year old son, and I don't get it.
1. My son is an outfielder....how do you judge that if no balls are hit to him? Are we really counting the Fungo's hit to him in warm ups?
2. At 14 I expect him to grow more...who's to say what you report to me today won't fix itself with some growth?
3. If my son was one of these 13 year olds being scouted and getting verbal offers why would I hire a scout to tell me a path, he's already on a path!
If I'm really a gung-ho parent and think I have the next Bryce Harper then I'm going to take him to a PG showcase at which point the write up will say things like needs to develop more strength, or needs to track the ball better, or something along those lines that will let me know where he needs more work. Then if I really truly hate the write up I can send a polite email to have it removed from his profile.
I can't get a handle on where you would fit into the market unless you are talking about going after the 9u-13u kids. If that is the case I'm sure you would get some takers, but these are the kids that their parents already have them in 4 lessons per week with ex MLB stars for $100 per hour, a.k.a money to burn families. I can't see how this would appeal to people like me.
this is one lame brain idea... but 'there's a sucker born every minute.
CaCo3...YOU get it!
So final conclusion for me is you will probably make some money. Unfortunately baseball parents are crazy. It won't be my money for sure. I don't need an MLB scout to point out my son's limitations I am already painfully aware of. And if you try to go lower price point let's just be honest about this it is going to be a money making scam pure and simple. So when mommy calls you in for her little boy and he absolutely sucks in every way what will the evaluation be? Find something else to do? No, its going to be some fluffy fake write up about his potential and he just needs to work on this or that and mature a little. It's the old if its too good to be true principal. You going to tell me I can get a professional scout to come to me, watch a game, write up a well thought out and precise evaluation for about $150??? I would have to call BS on that. And I still believe that any evaluation by anybody regardless of what a great eye he has based upon one game would not mean much. Again I would beg you don't be another pariah. Leave these folks alone. Be a good person and don't market to people who you know you are taking advantage of. And please don't rationalize by saying you would be helping. It is very difficult for me to believe that anyone with a college bound player would hire this service. You would be preying on the low hanging fruit, the dreamers. Don't do it!!!!
CaCO3Girl posted:I have to say I am your demographic, 14 year old son, and I don't get it.
1. My son is an outfielder....how do you judge that if no balls are hit to him? Are we really counting the Fungo's hit to him in warm ups?
2. At 14 I expect him to grow more...who's to say what you report to me today won't fix itself with some growth?
3. If my son was one of these 13 year olds being scouted and getting verbal offers why would I hire a scout to tell me a path, he's already on a path!
If I'm really a gung-ho parent and think I have the next Bryce Harper then I'm going to take him to a PG showcase at which point the write up will say things like needs to develop more strength, or needs to track the ball better, or something along those lines that will let me know where he needs more work. Then if I really truly hate the write up I can send a polite email to have it removed from his profile.
I can't get a handle on where you would fit into the market unless you are talking about going after the 9u-13u kids. If that is the case I'm sure you would get some takers, but these are the kids that their parents already have them in 4 lessons per week with ex MLB stars for $100 per hour, a.k.a money to burn families. I can't see how this would appeal to people like me.
Scouts look at a multitude of things to acquire tool value. Even though your son doesn't track a ball during the game, the way he warms up & the way he throws scouts will key in on. As for growth, scouts look at tool projection based on many things - they see his body type and estimate projection fairly well. Tools are tools - whether you are 5' 1" or 6' 1"... professional scouts make a living - and clubs employ them for their voice - in accurately estimating future growth from today's tools.
Being on an contact list for a college doesn't mean the player will actually be offered a ride.
If PG Showcases are your thing, then that's where you should take him. Nothing wrong with being seen. I'm not sure I understand why PG would remove a scouting report once issued but...
"Dear Mr. and Ms. Smith
Thank you very much for the opportunity to provide an in depth evaluation and plan for your son Jon Smith. As you know, I was a professional baseball scout for many years and know some people who are pretty high in various baseball organizations. While scouting is different from developing baseball skills, I am very experienced in watching and rendering opinions and have done so for literally thousands of players over my scouting career - some of those who I evaluated played in the major leagues! My goal is to create a multi-year relationship with your family which will culminate in your son realizing his baseball potential. While I do not coach, teach, or develop, I can tell you what your son will need to do to reach the next baseball level.
I attended two full games of Saturday's high school double header and am pleased to share with you my observations:
Jon is a 5' 2" 150 lb. soft body, right fielder who is just entering puberty. His parents (I don't know if he was adopted) are both average height and build.
While only two fly balls were hit to right over both games, I observed that Jon wore his uniform properly and he warmed up well, with most of his throws to his warm up partner within an acceptable range for both accuracy and velocity. Both fly balls were routine, but I noticed Jon seemed a bit unsure whether to crow hop a throw back to the infield - maybe next game, I'll get to watch Jon catch a ball with a man on base and less than two out. However, during pre-game the three warm up fly balls were caught and his throws went to the base he had been told to throw to; moreover, the throws were reasonably accurate and showed good velocity. For almost every pitch defensively, Jon would seem to be focused on the game and moved to back up throws when appropriate.
At the plate, Jon seemed a bit tentative. He did not seem to have an approach at the plate or a plan to attack the pitcher when the count turned in his favor. His swing was a bit long and loopy and he stepped out a bit - especially on breaking pitches.
He ran out the balls he put into play and hustled whenever he was on base. His time to first, however, was very slow. I attribute that to his weight and soft body as well as the fact that his head bobs and weaves as he runs and the moving parts don't work in harmony. His leads were a bit short and his secondary leads lacked aggression - there were several balls in the dirt which could have been used to advance, but weren't. He needs to pick up the third base coach earlier on plays where he runs from first to third.
For a 14 year old, however, Jon has potential to play at the next level. BUT, the road to the next level is difficult and requires dedication and discipline. Therefore, here are the goals for the upcoming year based upon my observations:
- find a strength trainer who knows how to instruct baseball players;
- jon should eat healthy protein heavy foods (chicken, fish) and avoid sugars, fats and fast foods and snacks. He should eat lots of vegetables and fruits and protein supplements. A nutritionist you hire can help.
- find a batting coach to tighten the swing, straighten the stride and bring a plan to batting.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to evaluate Jon; he is a fine young man with baseball potential and with hard work, discipline, good baseball coaching, a personal trainer and nutritionist, has a very good chance of developing his game to be able to do compete successfully at the next level.
Enclosed you will find my bill. Including the double header, travel, notes, and creating this incredible evaluation and development plan, I spent 12 hours. Please remit the $200 to the address noted and I look forward to watching Jon over the next six years."
So, how helpful?
Goosegg posted:"Dear Mr. and Ms. Smith
Thank you very much for the opportunity to provide an in depth evaluation and plan for your son Jon Smith. As you know, I was a professional baseball scout for many years and know some people who are pretty high in various baseball organizations. While scouting is different from developing baseball skills, I am very experienced in watching and rendering opinions and have done so for literally thousands of players over my scouting career - some of those who I evaluated played in the major leagues! My goal is to create a multi-year relationship with your family which will culminate in your son realizing his baseball potential. While I do not coach, teach, or develop, I can tell you what your son will need to do to reach the next baseball level.
I attended two full games of Saturday's high school double header and am pleased to share with you my observations:
Jon is a 5' 2" 150 lb. soft body, right fielder who is just entering puberty. His parents (I don't know if he was adopted) are both average height and build.
While only two fly balls were hit to right over both games, I observed that Jon wore his uniform properly and he warmed up well, with most of his throws to his warm up partner within an acceptable range for both accuracy and velocity. Both fly balls were routine, but I noticed Jon seemed a bit unsure whether to crow hop a throw back to the infield - maybe next game, I'll get to watch Jon catch a ball with a man on base and less than two out. However, during pre-game the three warm up fly balls were caught and his throws went to the base he had been told to throw to; moreover, the throws were reasonably accurate and showed good velocity. For almost every pitch defensively, Jon would seem to be focused on the game and moved to back up throws when appropriate.
At the plate, Jon seemed a bit tentative. He did not seem to have an approach at the plate or a plan to attack the pitcher when the count turned in his favor. His swing was a bit long and loopy and he stepped out a bit - especially on breaking pitches.
He ran out the balls he put into play and hustled whenever he was on base. His time to first, however, was very slow. I attribute that to his weight and soft body as well as the fact that his head bobs and weaves as he runs and the moving parts don't work in harmony. His leads were a bit short and his secondary leads lacked aggression - there were several balls in the dirt which could have been used to advance, but weren't. He needs to pick up the third base coach earlier on plays where he runs from first to third.
For a 14 year old, however, Jon has potential to play at the next level. BUT, the road to the next level is difficult and requires dedication and discipline. Therefore, here are the goals for the upcoming year based upon my observations:
- find a strength trainer who knows how to instruct baseball players;
- jon should eat healthy protein heavy foods (chicken, fish) and avoid sugars, fats and fast foods and snacks. He should eat lots of vegetables and fruits and protein supplements. A nutritionist you hire can help.
- find a batting coach to tighten the swing, straighten the stride and bring a plan to batting.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to evaluate Jon; he is a fine young man with baseball potential and with hard work, discipline, good baseball coaching, a personal trainer and nutritionist, has a very good chance of developing his game to be able to do compete successfully at the next level.
Enclosed you will find my bill. Including the double header, travel, notes, and creating this incredible evaluation and development plan, I spent 12 hours. Please remit the $200 to the address noted and I look forward to watching Jon over the next six years."
So, how helpful?
Goosegg, don't you think that's a little ridiculous? Oh not the eval, the idea the scout wouldn't be prepaid! Get your head in the game man!
Goosegg,
You're hired@
Goosegg,
You're hired!
Goose that is just precious!! And in reality the report wouldn't even be that critical no doubt. But safe to say jon's issues can be fixed with just a little more time and a lot more money!!!
All kidding aside, I think that the OP came for our feedback and ideas. Lets be kind.
TPM I agree. And the Op has identified a real problem - bringing a family's expectations into the realm of reality. We all know the system extracts way too much money for way too little; with no tried and true path which anyone could follow. So, any realistic method/system to save money would be welcomed.
OP - keep trying; you're thinking outside the box and that is fantastic. You've identified a resource with deep baseball knowledge and tried to leverage it. It's a good idea in theory which - because of the human elements - won't work generally (though would work anecdotally).
jmo
Why not apply to the Area Code training camps - no cost and complete evaluation by pro scouts.
Bob
I appreciate OP using our site as due diligence to fine tune his target market, and I personally see an opportunity if he were to combine skills testing and find a way to keep the price point reasonable.
Goose's narrative was hilarious and I'm sure it brought it home to 4Seam. If there is a market does the reward justify the risk? Let's continue to welcome ideas on our site and have a constructive dialogue. Stating an OP's idea is a scam is not a great approach.
I'm not vested in this idea nor do I know 4Seam. Great products and services normally start off with an off the wall (to some) idea to get started....
Consultant posted:Why not apply to the Area Code training camps - no cost and complete evaluation by pro scouts.
Bob
We did.
Are parents so lost in this process that they cannot compare their player to teammates , opponents, high school coaches , travel coaches and get a pretty good idea ?
Goosegg posted:"Dear Mr. and Ms. Smith
Thank you very much for the opportunity to provide an in depth evaluation and plan for your son Jon Smith. As you know, I was a professional baseball scout for many years and know some people who are pretty high in various baseball organizations. While scouting is different from developing baseball skills, I am very experienced in watching and rendering opinions and have done so for literally thousands of players over my scouting career - some of those who I evaluated played in the major leagues! My goal is to create a multi-year relationship with your family which will culminate in your son realizing his baseball potential. While I do not coach, teach, or develop, I can tell you what your son will need to do to reach the next baseball level.
I attended two full games of Saturday's high school double header and am pleased to share with you my observations:
Jon is a 5' 2" 150 lb. soft body, right fielder who is just entering puberty. His parents (I don't know if he was adopted) are both average height and build.
While only two fly balls were hit to right over both games, I observed that Jon wore his uniform properly and he warmed up well, with most of his throws to his warm up partner within an acceptable range for both accuracy and velocity. Both fly balls were routine, but I noticed Jon seemed a bit unsure whether to crow hop a throw back to the infield - maybe next game, I'll get to watch Jon catch a ball with a man on base and less than two out. However, during pre-game the three warm up fly balls were caught and his throws went to the base he had been told to throw to; moreover, the throws were reasonably accurate and showed good velocity. For almost every pitch defensively, Jon would seem to be focused on the game and moved to back up throws when appropriate.
At the plate, Jon seemed a bit tentative. He did not seem to have an approach at the plate or a plan to attack the pitcher when the count turned in his favor. His swing was a bit long and loopy and he stepped out a bit - especially on breaking pitches.
He ran out the balls he put into play and hustled whenever he was on base. His time to first, however, was very slow. I attribute that to his weight and soft body as well as the fact that his head bobs and weaves as he runs and the moving parts don't work in harmony. His leads were a bit short and his secondary leads lacked aggression - there were several balls in the dirt which could have been used to advance, but weren't. He needs to pick up the third base coach earlier on plays where he runs from first to third.
For a 14 year old, however, Jon has potential to play at the next level. BUT, the road to the next level is difficult and requires dedication and discipline. Therefore, here are the goals for the upcoming year based upon my observations:
- find a strength trainer who knows how to instruct baseball players;
- jon should eat healthy protein heavy foods (chicken, fish) and avoid sugars, fats and fast foods and snacks. He should eat lots of vegetables and fruits and protein supplements. A nutritionist you hire can help.
- find a batting coach to tighten the swing, straighten the stride and bring a plan to batting.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to evaluate Jon; he is a fine young man with baseball potential and with hard work, discipline, good baseball coaching, a personal trainer and nutritionist, has a very good chance of developing his game to be able to do compete successfully at the next level.
Enclosed you will find my bill. Including the double header, travel, notes, and creating this incredible evaluation and development plan, I spent 12 hours. Please remit the $200 to the address noted and I look forward to watching Jon over the next six years."
So, how helpful?
HAha - that's hilarious Goosegg... not quite what we do but I will recommend your nurturing way to our scouts. 
2020dad posted:Goose that is just precious!! And in reality the report wouldn't even be that critical no doubt. But safe to say jon's issues can be fixed with just a little more time and a lot more money!!!
... quite a few more evaluations too?? Now we're getting somewhere. haha
Go back to the numbers of how many players are actually playing D1 ball , minor league ball let alo e mlb , its a very small percentage. All the camps, lessons , advice, evals are not going to get you there. Talent , raw talent , athletic body, work ethic . Dont call use, we'll call you
Goosegg posted:TPM I agree. And the Op has identified a real problem - bringing a family's expectations into the realm of reality. We all know the system extracts way too much money for way too little; with no tried and true path which anyone could follow. So, any realistic method/system to save money would be welcomed.
OP - keep trying; you're thinking outside the box and that is fantastic. You've identified a resource with deep baseball knowledge and tried to leverage it. It's a good idea in theory which - because of the human elements - won't work generally (though would work anecdotally).
jmo
If the clubs won't employ the game's specialists, the parents certainly will. Right?
bacdorslider posted:Are parents so lost in this process that they cannot compare their player to teammates , opponents, high school coaches , travel coaches and get a pretty good idea ?
My own observations here but, I think that's exactly the problem today bacdorslider. Parents compare their 14u/15u child to the kid from Miami or the So. Cal kid and then say 'my kid doesn't have a chance' and then we see the child drift off to another sport. The Commissioner's plan is to keep every child interested in the game somehow involved and I think we can assist in that goal by not only explaining that this kid does indeed have a chance if he continues to work on his tools. He may not be a D1 guy, but who is to say he isn't drafted in the 10th round as a junior in college if he continues to improve? Quite a few players develop late - could he be one of them? Keep working hard toward your goal. Don't give up.
bacdorslider posted:Go back to the numbers of how many players are actually playing D1 ball , minor league ball let alo e mlb , its a very small percentage. All the camps, lessons , advice, evals are not going to get you there. Talent , raw talent , athletic body, work ethic . Dont call use, we'll call you
True. At the same time, we like to think there is a fit in the collegiate ranks for anyone who really wants to play. That's not true, of course, but for the complimentary player hoping to get a pro contract one day NAIA is heaven if if he can't get to D1. Hope is hope. Right?
4seamer posted:bacdorslider posted:Are parents so lost in this process that they cannot compare their player to teammates , opponents, high school coaches , travel coaches and get a pretty good idea ?
My own observations here but, I think that's exactly the problem today bacdorslider. Parents compare their 14u/15u child to the kid from Miami or the So. Cal kid and then say 'my kid doesn't have a chance' and then we see the child drift off to another sport. The Commissioner's plan is to keep every child interested in the game somehow involved and I think we can assist in that goal by not only explaining that this kid does indeed have a chance if he continues to work on his tools. He may not be a D1 guy, but who is to say he isn't drafted in the 10th round as a junior in college if he continues to improve? Quite a few players develop late - could he be one of them? Keep working hard toward your goal. Don't give up.
In all seriousness this is what I do not understand. Are there a shortage of College players? Are there a shortage of MiLB players? Are there a shortage of MLB players? I don't think there is a shortage at any level, and I also think we are seeing some of the most amazing athletes of all times coming out of these levels.
So, the D2/D3 potential kid who knows he's not going to be the next Bryce Harper gives up the sport at 15u....so what? The 15u kid tries another sport that he may be better suited for, or perhaps chooses to focus on computers, or another interest. There are thousands of passionate baseball players that play for love of the game and they will continue to play. If the kid doesn't think he's good enough to make it, and isn't passionate about baseball why shouldn't he move on to something else?
It was my understanding that the Commissioner was trying to keep 6u-13u interested in the game...not 15u and up.
Gov posted:I appreciate OP using our site as due diligence to fine tune his target market, and I personally see an opportunity if he were to combine skills testing and find a way to keep the price point reasonable.
Goose's narrative was hilarious and I'm sure it brought it home to 4Seam. If there is a market does the reward justify the risk? Let's continue to welcome ideas on our site and have a constructive dialogue. Stating an OP's idea is a scam is not a great approach.
I'm not vested in this idea nor do I know 4Seam. Great products and services normally start off with an off the wall (to some) idea to get started....
I dont think its all thst off the wall, or in anyway does he have intentions on scamming anyone. I still think that the title kind of threw everyone off.
The problem is that we have been given limited information, and once again he did come here to get ideas on how to make a concept work, hasnt tried to sell anything.
TPM posted:Gov posted:I appreciate OP using our site as due diligence to fine tune his target market, and I personally see an opportunity if he were to combine skills testing and find a way to keep the price point reasonable.
Goose's narrative was hilarious and I'm sure it brought it home to 4Seam. If there is a market does the reward justify the risk? Let's continue to welcome ideas on our site and have a constructive dialogue. Stating an OP's idea is a scam is not a great approach.
I'm not vested in this idea nor do I know 4Seam. Great products and services normally start off with an off the wall (to some) idea to get started....
I dont think its all thst off the wall, or in anyway does he have intentions on scamming anyone. I still think that the title kind of threw everyone off.
The problem is that we have been given limited information, and once again he did come here to get ideas on how to make a concept work, hasnt tried to sell anything.
Completely concur TPM, I was referring to earlier comments used by posters. I get his idea, some fine tuning required ....
bacdorslider posted:Go back to the numbers of how many players are actually playing D1 ball , minor league ball let alo e mlb , its a very small percentage. All the camps, lessons , advice, evals are not going to get you there. Talent , raw talent , athletic body, work ethic . Dont call use, we'll call you
Perhaps a well timed and well constructed evaluation would save a parent money? Or let them target their resources to the kid's abilities? There's more ball than D1, Milb, MLB.
Let me clear something up here. I assume the scam comment was directed at me. I apologize my posts were a bit long so perhaps you didnt really read them. But I said it was a scam at a certain price point. I took very seriously my advice to 4seamer and made many suggestions on how this could be a useful and relevant service. Even saying I would be a paying customer at a much higher price point with much more value built in. I am giving him sincere advice and begged him NOT to take advantage of the naive hopeful. My hope is he will do this the right way and it WON'T be a scam. But at $150 or something similar it will be a scam pure and simple. No reputable MLB scout is going to do this for that amount and then hand whatever percentage over to the owner operator.
P.S. there is a place for anyone with any ability at all. There are D3's everywhere willing to trade a uniform for tuition.
2020dad posted:Let me clear something up here. I assume the scam comment was directed at me. I apologize my posts were a bit long so perhaps you didnt really read them. But I said it was a scam at a certain price point. I took very seriously my advice to 4seamer and made many suggestions on how this could be a useful and relevant service. Even saying I would be a paying customer at a much higher price point with much more value built in. I am giving him sincere advice and begged him NOT to take advantage of the naive hopeful. My hope is he will do this the right way and it WON'T be a scam. But at $150 or something similar it will be a scam pure and simple. No reputable MLB scout is going to do this for that amount and then hand whatever percentage over to the owner operator.
P.S. there is a place for anyone with any ability at all. There are D3's everywhere willing to trade a uniform for tuition.
I understand your point 2020, sorry I missed it earlier. I still think the $150-200 is a key price point a parent may pay, and if a local scout is used, who is likely "semi-retired" or using this to supplement his income, this price point could actually be good for the scout. If the local scout takes 60% times a few games or more per week, the 60% of $150-200 per evaluation could add up to make it worth his while while providing a service deemed worthy by some parents. The "house-4Seam" is making 40% per Scout per evaluation nationwide, more of a volume deal where the "house" makes its money. It's not a "Snapchat" opportunity, but could be a nice business.
I'm in the minority of seeing value here, but I still think there has to be skills testing results imbedded in the final evaluation. It's the only way to provide true insight on where a player is with both tools & skills. This combination is of value to the parent-player. I also think this idea is more of an opportunity in non hot bed baseball markets, (like my area, where there are too many clueless parents spending money in the wrong areas). I've met a lot of parents in the Georgia and San Diego areas, they seem to have access to a lot more development type programs, and with that the parents are much more informed. Not in my area.
Any price above $150-200 is a deal killer.
There have been some judgements made rather than opinions here, which was the original intent of the topic. Again, poor choice of name for topic. I think that the roll out will be next year.
I am sure that the OP has appreciated all the feedback.