Outfield numbers

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Originally posted by jayhook:
Relatively new to the college scene, so I need to tap into more experienced folks. Why the low number of outfielders on college rosters? And can coaches or parents of college players help with how rosters are filled out?
Maybe it's just the schools I have recently looked at, but the rosters typically show 3-4 outfielder-only players. Is this the case and what is the philosophy in recruiting outfielders? My son had been an OF/P, but is now almost exclusively an OF. Early in the process, but worried about what appears to be a limited number of spots.

If one doesn't pitch, then you need a strong bat. If you play OF, you need speed and a strong arm and unfortunelty there are not a lot of OF positions avaliable on any roster, but that doesn't mean a coach will turn up a player that is extremely athletic.

Jay - If you are looking now, many teams have rosters posted minus the incoming freshman. There may be a couple of incoming freshman who would fit into the OF.

I know that is the case with my son's teams current roster.

I don't post much anymore, but your questions intrigued me because the answers offer a chance for those early in the process to learn some important points about college recruiting.

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Early in the process, but worried about what appears to be a limited number of spots.

Most don't learn, realize, or appreciate that point until much later in the recruiting process.

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And can coaches or parents of college players help with how rosters are filled out?

No, another significant point that most of those in the early point of the recruiting process will need to learn.

Your college coaches are entirely responsible for their baseball programs.

As a parent, you can control whether your son attends, or continues to attend a school, but that is about it.

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Maybe it's just the schools I have recently looked at, but the rosters typically show 3-4 outfielder-only players. Is this the case and what is the philosophy in recruiting outfielders?

Colleges recruit pitchers first, then the "up the middle" players, catchers, SS, and CF, then the corners.

They recruit the best athletes that they can, typically a high school shortstop.

That high school shortstop might become a CF (maybe RF, or LF) early in his collegiate career, a shortstop, or, second baseman later.

So, a good high school shortstop might play some OF as a freshman, and, sophomore, while making the transition to the collegiate infield.

Notice that I did not include 2B in the recruiting list.

They will recruit a pure CF with outstanding speed, hitting ability, and a strong arm.

Freshmen and sophomores can crack the lineup by hitting well and playing in the outfield defensively.

So, that is why you see the low number of outfielders on college rosters.

I am not sure what rosters you are looking at but most have 6-7 OF or OF/P on the roster. If you are worried about slots be thankful he is not a catcher…..

BTW you are nuts if you think you have any control over what a college coach is recruting into his program.

FormerObserver post is pretty accurate. College recruiting is about 1. Pitching 2. Speed 3. Pitching 4. Arm strength 5. Pitching 6. Hitting and 7. Pitching.

The best thing that you have done that you have started to read rosters. The next step is to compare rosters with team stats. You will then get and idea of how many kids play. I have then taken it a step further and Googled some players and see where they played position wise in HS.

What is equally important is for you to take your son to as many colleges as possible. Attend fall practice, see how teams and coaches evaluate talent. If you will do it you will be far better prepared to advise your son as to what kind of college program makes sense to him as a player.

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If you are worried about slots be thankful he is not a catcher…..

or a 6'4" left handed first baseman.

"be thankful he's not a catcher" - - AMEN to that! One possible reason there are so few true catchers is that it is so hard on the knees. There aren't many parents who want to watch their sons squat in the dirt behind a fellow swinging a metal or wooden stick just a few inches in front of his head. It wasn't our choice for position but our son wouldn't have it any other way. Ever notice how every kid wants to pitch but no one wants to catch?

Just to reinforce what is being said, if you dig deeper into these rosters and read profiles, you will see that many players who are listed as IF have bio's that state they are expected to start/get a lot of PT in the OF.
Also, I have seen some D3 rosters with upwards of 11 OF's. I'm thinking it's better if there are fewer listed - better odds at competing for PT. But again, don't expect that you will only be competing with those listed as OF.

Hey, thanks for the insight and thoughts. Good stuff. Let me clarify a point FormerObserver raised. When I asked if coaches or parents of college players could help with how rosters are filled out, I meant could they help explain it to me based on their experience. Obviously I know parents aren't filling out rosters.

Makes sense that incoming freshmen aren't yet showing up on rosters, so maybe that's why I only see, 3, 4 or whatever. I'm looking at D2 programs. Does that make a difference? And should I assume the pecking order for recruits - "up the middle players'' - is the same regardless of division?

Also, a couple quick follow ups. At what point in the high school career should a player start reaching out or making contact with college programs?

Finally, where can you get the better bang for your buck - a Perfect Game showcase or maybe 4-5 college camps/showcases? Keep in mind, this isn't a top D1 or pro prospect. My initial reaction is that a staff gets to know a kid and evaluate him a lot closer in the campus setting.

jayhook, I personally think you getter a better bang for your buck at college camps/showcases. Even better if you let them know you are coming and your travel coach has connections with those schools and puts in a good word for your son. The PG showcase and tournaments are great if your son is "the show" and stands out. 95% of the kids there are not even noticed. Alot of money and times is wasted thinking they will get a chance to be noticed - if your son is not running a sub 7 - 60yard dash (a must for OF) - don't bother going - they will be crossed off the list and not looked at for the rest of the day. To get noticed at these events you have to be on a watch list already. Although sometimes they are useful as an eye opener - there are lots of good baseball players - very few that are exceptional.

College camps/showcases are MUCH better if they know you are comming. The coaches pay much more attention to a kid they are "supposed to be watching" than one of the masses.Also - make sure they know why they are watching you, ie are you a hitter - pitcher - speed guy - defense guy? Good luck.

Things can change from year to year at any school. When my son was a freshmen, his DII school had nine outfielders and he was the only freshman, so he was redshirted. Last year the DH was moved to outfield to accommodate a new DH type who could really hit and had been drafted out of high school. So for the other two outfield positions there were 4 seniors, one a two time all conference centerfielder, a junior, a junior pitcher who also played outfield, a sophomore and my son a redshirt freshman as well as three true freshman who were all redshirted. Now things have changed as the seniors have graduated, the two juniors have left the school, and there should a couple of outfield positions up for grabs. Of course, there will probably be a couple of Juco outfielders brought in also. Truthfully, I could have done my homework better on what my son's team had coming back for his first two years but the redshirt year the first year was not an all bad thing actually. But last year he got into 32 games as a part timer and he expects to have a good shot at being a starter this year. So this is the type of stuff you need to look at. Remember, as others have said, the roster position doesn't always tell you everything about where guys will play during there early college years.

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And can coaches or parents of college players help with how rosters are filled out?

Sorry, I misinterpreted your question, but believe it, or not, there are those parents who want input on the roster.

A college coach might explain their recruiting process more specifically, but it would likely follow the same generic process that I described earlier.

A college coaches explanation of the process would likely include that generic process as is relates to his current/projected rosters of players.

I don't think they are likely to do that, and, it could also further confuse you.

I think that most coaches, that are truly interested in recruiting your son, will explain to him how they see your son eventually contributing to the team.

You can take that explanation and look at the prior, current, and expected future rosters to see if will seem to work out.

But, no one really can know what that future roster is going to look like on the first day of spring, or even from week to week.

Baseball's "up the middle" pecking order is the same division to division.

The "up the middle" pecking order is impacted by the MLB, Division I, Division II, juco pecking order.

From a purely baseball perspective, MLB gets who they want, then Division I. Jucos and the rest slug it out.

Remember with 27 receiving baseball money for D1, the breakout probably averages something like this:

13 pitchers
3 catchers
6 infielders
5 outfielders

NO MATTER HOW MANY AT YOUR POSITION 1 OR 11 YOU STILL HAVE TO EARN YOUR SPOT

RightyShortstop played every game of his HS career at short or on the mound. He played 7 positions in collegiate summer league. The only place he DIDN'T play was first and short. His college coach almost exclusively recruits pitchers, catchers and shortstops.

A few weeks ago I sparked considerable disagreement when I challenged the conventional advice frequently given here for players to choose a school where they know they can play.

This thread makes my point more convincingly than I could have. The hard truth is that you can't know you can play at a certain school until you actually earn and retain a starting spot there.

Furthermore, there is no safety in "dropping down"--regardless of whether your idea of dropping down leads you to mid-major, low D1, NAIA, D3, D2, or JUCO.

There is competition at all levels. The roster math is often even more brutal at D3's than D1's, and your coach is diligently working to make it worse. If a coach can recruit you, he can probably recruit another guy as good as you to challenge you for the position you want. In fact, he probably did, and that guy is already a couple years older and stronger than you.

At every level of baseball, the numbers are bad, and they get worse at the next level. You can't run from the numbers. You can only challenge them head on and endeavor to beat them with your best effort.

I’m not familiar with college rosters, other than they are allowed 35 players. Of those 35 what would be considered a “normal” number of active players?

The travel roster is usually 25. In some instances coaches will take more players but it doesn't vary by much for away games. For home games sometimes you'll have more on the roster which must be determined prior to start of game and submitted to the umpires.

You are right about limited outfield spots on most Rosters, in fact, that is pretty much the case for all position players.

The greatest odds on is at the Pitcher position, as Mark B. stated.

Rosters of 35 will normally be comprised of near half pitchers; say 17 and 3 catchers. That leaves 15 position players remaining, about two per each field position. Those field positions will vary depending upon team needs and how successful their recruiting efforts are filled. If the kid hits they will determine where he best fits their needs. If he doesn't hit much he better be fast and or have a big time glove.

CF is the only outfield position that is truly recruited solely for the purpose of playing outfield. If a player is talented enought to be recruited as a mif but not talented enough to start yet up the middle lf and rf become very good options. A 3b or 1b who can hit will many times find themselves in a corner OF position if they can not beat out the other corner inf's.

Pitchers
SS
Catchers

Position specific pecking order.

The 2nd best SS is the 2B. The best catcher is the catcher. The best pitchers pitch. The best 3B is the 3B. The best 1B is the guy who can hit but not good enough to beat out the 3B. The Dh is the guy that has the best bat but not good enough to over take the other 8.

Coaches don't recruit RF's or LF's. They recruit baseball players. They do recruit CF's. They do recruit SS's. They do recruit Catchers and Pitchers. And they do recruit corner inf's who can hit.

If your a high school 2b there is a reason your not at SS. If your a high school lf or rf there is a reason your not in CF. The stud SS in high school may not be good enough to be the starting SS in college day one but he might be good enough to play 2B. The stud CF in high school might not be good enough to overtake the CF but he may be good enough to move over to LF or RF.

So what you end up with is former SS at SS, 2B, 3B, LF, RF in many cases. Former CF in CF. Former Catcher at Catcher. That is not always the case but in many cases it is the plan.

There are instances where a kid simply plays RF because the CF is a stud but he is also very talented. But many times its simply because he is not as good as the CF in the outfield. Your best OF plays CF. Your best infielder plays SS. Coaches recruit your best players. Your best hitter? Now thats where things can change in a good way for any player.

Coach has it summerized pretty good for my sons college team. On my son's college team the only recruited OF guy that got substantial playing time during the regular season was the CF. RF was played by a guy recruited to play second, LF was platooned with a cather and pitcher/first baseman.