It is interesting that there is at least 1 D1 schools that have no commitments listed on their page. There are 2 others that have none for 2025.
@adbono posted:A post that names a school for any kind of unscrupulous behavior, without evidence to support such a claim, can be very damaging. Especially when it turns out to not be true. I don’t know how we have gotten to the point where people routinely make damning statements that are false and they suffer no consequences. SMH
Well yes, that's bad, and I assume the person that posted it will lose credibility since he appears to work in baseball....
BUT.....there are also people that think if it wasn't false that it's perfectly acceptable and not "shameful" to withdraw verbal offers (yes I know that's not a thing blah blah blah) a month before NLIs and when the quiet period begins and don't think "the system is broken" if this happened.
Welp......
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@Dadbelly2023 posted:The college experience should be about getting a useful education and developing as a person. I don't see 3 different programs in 5-6 years as ideal in this regard; at least for my kids.
Bingo. Not what I want for my bright son, who is determined to play in college, either. Hope to see him go somewhere where he is wanted to first, and get an education. But this is not my experience, it is his. Everything about my son suggests that he intends to try to chase this (what now sounds like a crazy, crazy) dream.
@ILoveBaseball04 posted:Bingo. Not what I want for my bright son, who is determined to play in college, either. Hope to see him go somewhere where he is wanted to first, and get an education. But this is not my experience, it is his. Everything about my son suggests that he intends to try to chase this (what now sounds like a crazy, crazy) dream.
A lot of kids believe they’re pro prospects coming out of high school. They want to get in the right college program for exposure. Most of them don’t ever get drafted or get drafted late.
There are plenty of kids who are talented academically and are borderline pro baseball prospects. It’s where my son fell in the spectrum. He played and started at a P5 pre Covid and pre transfer portal. He drew pro interest. But he had no intention of signing if drafted after the 20th round as a position player. He didn’t want to spend three years as A ball roster filler for real prospects.
I believe if he was coming out of high school now he would have no interest in going JuCo and hoping the eventual four year college worked out for baseball. He would have gone ranked HA D3.
@nycdad posted:Welp......
He does not seem to be backing down. He said that he spoke to the coach, and the coach could not refute the claims. And he hasn’t taken it down.
@RJM posted:I believe if he was coming out of high school now he would have no interest in going JuCo and hoping the eventual four year college worked out for baseball. He would have gone ranked HA D3.
I just wish the cost of a HA D3 was the same a JUCO. We are currently trying to figure out if the ROI of the upfront cost of the first 2 years at an HA D3 would be worth it. Sorry kind of off topic.
@baseballhs posted:He does not seem to be backing down. He said that he spoke to the coach, and the coach could not refute the claims. And he hasn’t taken it down.
Yeah I see that. I don't know. My thought is maybe he didn't do it maliciously, but maybe got some wrong data, and is just hoping it goes away. If that's the case, he should own up to it IMO.
@nycdad posted:Yeah I see that. I don't know. My thought is maybe he didn't do it maliciously, but maybe got some wrong data, and is just hoping it goes away. If that's the case, he should own up to it IMO.
Maybe. He said it wasn’t malicious, just a warning g, but now he’s pissed. I think if it wasn’t true, he would take it down or back up on it, he isn’t. I do think that most coaches don’t fear this, because they know people are too scared to say anything, because it would affect their own career (or that of their son). If it’s true, I’m glad he isn’t caving. Tough for his kid though.
@TxballDad posted:I just wish the cost of a HA D3 was the same a JUCO. We are currently trying to figure out if the ROI of the upfront cost of the first 2 years at an HA D3 would be worth it. Sorry kind of off topic.
Depending on how high the HA is, they probably won't take many juco transfers. Depending on what you want out of college, being there 4 years definitely can make a difference for things like research and internship opportunities.
Very selective schools have a lot of financial aid. Somewhat less selective schools have a lot of merit aid for qualified applicants. There is a sweet spot for each family, the key is to finding it.
No guarantee baseball will work out anywhere; injury is the most obvious issue.
@RJM posted:A lot of kids believe they’re pro prospects coming out of high school. They want to get in the right college program for exposure.
I think there's more to it than that. Maybe they want bragging rights among their HS/travel teammates (or their travel coaches want those bragging rights). Maybe they want the facilities, the swag, the BMOC. Maybe they want to work in baseball someday. Maybe they like to challenge themselves. All kinds of other reasons to commit to a D1/P5.
What I don't understand is that school lists 11 commits for 2024 on PG. That's a lot of reneging.
@TxballDad posted:I just wish the cost of a HA D3 was the same a JUCO. We are currently trying to figure out if the ROI of the upfront cost of the first 2 years at an HA D3 would be worth it. Sorry kind of off topic.
What would come after the two years at a HA D3, or are you saying 2 years at a juco then finishing at the HA D3? I think part of that value depends on what your kid wants to study. Mine is studying math and physics. His HA D3 has an insane academic rigor and focuses mainly on STEM. His school matriculates a lot of kids to top graduate programs and has one of the highest first year and mid career average salaries. We see the value in those. Others are really strong with business, economics, healthcare, etc. Figure out what the school's niche is and whether that aligns with your son. If not, it probably isn't worth the extra cost of tuition.
My concern with going juco then HA D3 would be admissions. Another is getting used to the rigor of the HA compared to a juco or other school. The freshman year at most HA's is about the students learning how to handle the rigor and learning how to do things their way. Starting after 2 years might not afford that opportunity and an academic struggle would be likely.
@ILoveBaseball04 posted:Bingo. Not what I want for my bright son, who is determined to play in college, either. Hope to see him go somewhere where he is wanted to first, and get an education. But this is not my experience, it is his. Everything about my son suggests that he intends to try to chase this (what now sounds like a crazy, crazy) dream.
My '24 has been all about chasing the crazy dream for several years. Prior to him making his verbal commitment, we (his parents) exerted moderately heavy-handed veto power on his short list. We told him "ahh yeah, not that college" several times for various different reasons. IMO, with partial scholarships in college baseball - parents that will be paying for a significant amount of the costs should be a key stakeholder in the decision making process.
We've watched local boys get fooled and crushed by over recruiting the past three years - at every level D1, D2, D3 and JUCO. As a dad, I've told my son "you're not good enough to PLAY there" several times, even as the recruiting coaches arranged weekly phone calls for months on end. The Crosschecker & DiamondKast subscriptions have been a good investment.
@adbono posted:Well isn’t it just par for the course with this guy? Always pandering to someone…..
Oddly, there was another similar message posted earlier, which was quickly deleted. Same picture/graphic, but different wording.
@anotherparent posted:Depending on how high the HA is, they probably won't take many juco transfers. Depending on what you want out of college, being there 4 years definitely can make a difference for things like research and internship opportunities.
Very selective schools have a lot of financial aid. Somewhat less selective schools have a lot of merit aid for qualified applicants. There is a sweet spot for each family, the key is to finding it.
No guarantee baseball will work out anywhere; injury is the most obvious issue.
I think there's more to it than that. Maybe they want bragging rights among their HS/travel teammates (or their travel coaches want those bragging rights). Maybe they want the facilities, the swag, the BMOC. Maybe they want to work in baseball someday. Maybe they like to challenge themselves. All kinds of other reasons to commit to a D1/P5.
My son wanted to play for a top fifty program. His attitude was he wanted to play with and against the best. His target market was the second twenty-five after the top twenty-five. He did it. But it was pre Covid and pre portal. The front door isn’t nearly as open for freshmen attempting to enter top fifties now. Marginal prospects getting caught up in all the side stuff other than education first and a shot at pro ball stand to end up disappointed when they don’t get on the field.
@adbono posted:Well isn’t it just par for the course with this guy? Always pandering to someone…..
I saw that post and found it oddly weird. Like, what dog does that guy have in this fight? Its almost like he's working for GM.
@Master P posted:I saw that post and found it oddly weird. Like, what dog does that guy have in this fight? Its almost like he's working for GM.
The dog that pushes his name in the middle of a topic getting a lot of twitter engagement. The dog that has his website linked where you are taken to a menu of paid services
@TxballDad posted: I just wish the cost of a HA D3 was the same a JUCO. We are currently trying to figure out if the ROI of the upfront cost of the first 2 years at an HA D3 would be worth it. Sorry kind of off topic@TerribleBPthrower posted:What would come after the two years at a HA D3, or are you saying 2 years at a juco then finishing at the HA D3? I think part of that value depends on what your kid wants to study. Mine is studying math and physics. His HA D3 has an insane academic rigor and focuses mainly on STEM. His school matriculates a lot of kids to top graduate programs and has one of the highest first year and mid career average salaries. We see the value in those. Others are really strong with business, economics, healthcare, etc. Figure out what the school's niche is and whether that aligns with your son. If not, it probably isn't worth the extra cost of tuition.
My concern with going juco then HA D3 would be admissions. Another is getting used to the rigor of the HA compared to a juco or other school. The freshman year at most HA's is about the students learning how to handle the rigor and learning how to do things their way. Starting after 2 years might not afford that opportunity and an academic struggle would be likely.
Agree that this is tricky and depends a lot on whether or not he will qualify for financial aid. I suspect as you guys are deep into travel ball, you probably won't qualify for much? A very efficient way to manage college costs is to go JUCO x 2 then transfer to finish degree at a 4 year. But there is a difference between "elite academic" and just plain "high academic". I suspect it is very challenging, if not impossible, to JUCO transfer into a very top HA D3 like TBPT son's. But that next 1-2 tier down may be very doable though? (Although I've heard it is harder to get merit money when you transfer).
I know at my kid's school, which is that 1-2 tiers down, they have a JUCO transfer this year for the first time in years. He was a wicked smart HS student and good player. I think he did the initial JUCO route to try to go D1 and decided to focus on a degree fit. You can PM me if interested in details and I can find out more.
I see that the website Niche.com ranks community colleges. Maybe there is a way to research which ones have the academic rigor to make a transfer to a HA D3 easier?
BTW, I'd kinda like it if Josh Rudd popped in right about now; saw the above; and gave us his take.
OK, I just paid for CBI's annual service and can see all the JUCO transfers to various schools. Highly recommend.
@Dadbelly2023 posted:OK, I just paid for CBI's annual service and can see all the JUCO transfers to various schools. Highly recommend.
Thanks for the support.
Just a fyi, we've just published and reconciled 2023 Fall Rosters for NCAA-D1 (206 out of 304).
26 schools have partial rosters
They are published for the 2024 reporting year.
Use the Team Roster Turnover Insight feature to find out what is available, then drill down
Incoming 2023-24 Season
Outgoing 2023-24 season (unknown reason) can means player was not found on another teams roster for the corresponding season
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@CollegebaseballInsights posted:26 schools have partial rosters
More and more schools are doing this so you can't see how many freshman and newcomers are cut in the fall.
@Dadbelly2023 posted:OK, I just paid for CBI's annual service and can see all the JUCO transfers to various schools. Highly recommend.
Just to be clear, CBI is based actual roster data, not commitments (HS or JUCO).
This means if you are look for 2023 commits (HS or JUCO) they would need to be listed on the 2024 roster or in the current situation (2023 Fall Roster).
Again, we've published 206 out of the 304 NCAA-D1 rosters and have found their previous schools (transfers) where applicable.
Based on last years activities, roughly 70% of the d1 schools post their fall roster. Due to cost consideration (mostly data management), we perform 1 pass of the data extraction, transform and loads.
We are now turning our focus on NCAA-D2, which should be available Oct 20.
@Master P posted:More and more schools are doing this so you can't see how many freshman and newcomers are cut in the fall.
It was around the same number of schools last yr
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:It was around the same number of schools last yr
One should estimate the fall roster equal spring roster times140 to 150 %
Great thread in this one
That’s horrible! There should be rules about that.
This is just an example of coaches that have to bring in kids who can pay the 80+ tuition and can play. Their coaching staff names one coach as the volunteer. There are no volunteers in D1 baseball. Definetly not where I would want my son to play.
I don't get Trombly BB and never did. Doesn't he help his guys in the process?
JMO
@TPM posted:This is just an example of coaches that have to bring in kids who can pay the 80+ tuition and can play. Their coaching staff names one coach as the volunteer. There are no volunteers in D1 baseball. Definetly not where I would want my son to play.
I don't get Trombly BB and never did. Doesn't he help his guys in the process?
JMO
Honest question. Can you clarify the first part? You just mean you wouldn't want him to play at USF? It seems like there are actually quite a few volunteer or unpaid assistant coaches in the D1 college ranks? Don't a lot of young guys do this with hopes of getting their foot in the coaching door?
@Francis7 posted:Great thread in this one
This thread describes standard operating procedure at most competitive D1, D2, D3, JuCo, & NAIA programs. It has gotten much worse since Covid but it’s been going on to some degree for decades. It’s the seedy underbelly of college baseball that those involved with have attempted to keep hidden from the public. This is a perfect example of why parents need to take an active role in their player’s recruitment. You can’t expect a 17 year old HS kid to accurately assess what they are being told. They can’t filter out the BS, hear the nuances in what is said, and get a good read on the room before they make a decision. They need help from adults that understand the player and his goals. And they need help from people who understand how the recruiting game is played. I think that being a source for information about the recruiting process is one of the very best features of HSBBW.
@Francis7 posted:Great thread in this one
Something doesn't add up. They have 10 freshmen listed on their roster. He mentioned this further down in the thread. Looks like they brought in 14/15 and 4 left after the fall. As a parent a 15 player incoming class would raise red flags..
Also small world, my (young) co-worker played for the HC when he was an AC in the MAAC. My oldest also spoke with him during the recruiting process when he became a HC on the east coast.
3 years ago when my son started the process I accepted the fact that almost every school that was recruiting him brought in more players than there were spots. He and I talked about and he's realized how hard hes going to have to work, that every fall and spring is a constant tryout.
He looked at me and said, "Its professional baseball now, they are giving me money to play a game."
Good advice from adbono.
We knew nothing about the recruiting process. My son's travel team coaches actually had meetings about recruiting and they knew a lot of coaches all over the country so they provided a wealth of information. I also learned a lot from Sully about recruiting. Don't be afraid to talk to the coaches recruiting your son and ask questions, and don't always assume that your son can figure it out on his own.
@adbono posted:This thread describes standard operating procedure at most competitive D1, D2, D3, JuCo, & NAIA programs. It has gotten much worse since Covid but it’s been going on to some degree for decades. It’s the seedy underbelly of college baseball that those involved with have attempted to keep hidden from the public. This is a perfect example of why parents need to take an active role in their player’s recruitment. You can’t expect a 17 year old HS kid to accurately assess what they are being told. They can’t filter out the BS, hear the nuances in what is said, and get a good read on the room before they make a decision. They need help from adults that understand the player and his goals. And they need help from people who understand how the recruiting game is played. I think that being a source for information about the recruiting process is one of the very best features of HSBBW.
Excellent post. If you are new to HSBBWeb read this and understand this.....over recruiting is standard operating procedure at competitive programs.
@nycdad posted:Something doesn't add up. They have 10 freshmen listed on their roster. He mentioned this further down in the thread. Looks like they brought in 114/15 and 4 left after the fall. As a parent a 15 player incoming class would raise red flags..
Also small world, my (young) co-worker played for the HC when he was an AC in the MAAC. My oldest also spoke with him during the recruiting process when he became a HC on the east coast.
Yeah, we did a one time download of fall rosters, if available.
On Sept 24, they had 43, they may or may not have added the 10 additional student athletes listed on the thread. Many times they well not list all
Here are the 15 freshman that you spoke about
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@fenwaysouth posted:Excellent post. If you are new to HSBBWeb read this and understand this.....over recruiting is standard operating procedure at competitive programs.
Even the not so competitive programs. I know of a freshman that was cut at semester by a team that finished last in their D1 conference.
One of my son's friends is signed to go to a top 10 program. 3 years ago my son asked him if he was worried about over recruiting and being cut. He looked at him and said, "They don't cut you if you're good."
I told my son that he needed that attitude to play at that school.
I will add, as a post script, that there are exceptions to what I said. There are SOME competitive programs that don’t blatantly over-recruit, don’t mislead their players, and provide an altogether different experience than the majority. As a parent, your job is to find those programs. It isn’t easy, but I will give you a hint. Look hard at the character of the Head Coach. All programs are a reflection of the HC. If he is a good person that treats people well and surrounds himself with like minded people you are on the right track.
Currently, CBI has 288 out of the 305 rosters.
267 were upload between Sept and Dec (one-time)
They were published as 2024 projections
Here is a link that you can use to see the roster sizes (top level)
@adbono posted:I will add, as a post script, that there are exceptions to what I said. There are SOME competitive programs that don’t blatantly over-recruit, don’t mislead their players, and provide an altogether different experience than the majority. As a parent, your job is to find those programs. It isn’t easy, but I will give you a hint. Look hard at the character of the Head Coach. All programs are a reflection of the HC. If he is a good person that treats people well and surrounds himself with like minded people you are on the right track.
Agree.
Additionally, looking at the data and the recruiting patterns of the HC will provide student athletes and family the necessary insights to spot red flags.
It is up to the individual to seek out the information.