over training for elite programs

Understand what you are saying however I have never recommended staying away from other sports.

Any college / pro scout or coach will quickly tell you how much they like baseball players that also play other sports. Makes a better all around athlete. It's getting harder and harder to do, even at the HS age.

My travel team consists of kids all playing JV Ball. We've played 1 tournament before HS season started. Another a few weeks later (both local). We played one this month (local again). We'll play one next month. Their JV season is done in early May. We'll play a week long (World Wood Bat) in June, and a weekend tourney before that. We'll play one weekend tourney July 4th weekend, and they are off all of July. I'll run my tryouts again in late late July Early August. We'll play a couple of tournaments in September and one in early October. Those kids on my team are then required to shut down baseball (no throwing / hitting etc) for a minimum 45 days. In the past it's usually lasted until after Christmas. Then we start Winter workouts. It helps that most all play basketball. Those who don't (and even those who do) usually are working out (running / strength training). In other words, not doing anything baseball related.

What kills me is if you ask a Coach if it's a good idea to lift weights,everyday, that target the same muscles, of course they will say no. But they are fine with kids throwing, pitching and hitting everyday without taking a break.

I believe it's probably not "over-training" per se. I think it's competitiveness. Kids these days are technically sound and play at a higher level than probably you and I at this age (High School). Most have to be game-ready or risk losing their position to a kid that is. The only way to be game-ready and be consistent, is to prepare.

Kids that love the game and possess the desire to play at higher levels will push themselves to work harder than the guy next to them. It's to their advantage. Now, that might lead them to not train correctly, but I don't think it's over-training. Correct-balanced training can be executed on a consistent basis. It obviously includes rest, nutrition, and a good mental perspective.

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Originally posted by ctandc:
Any college / pro scout or coach will quickly tell you how much they like baseball players that also play other sports. Makes a better all around athlete. It's getting harder and harder to do, even at the HS age.

I do not believe this to be true, it sound good though, especially if you are from up north where baseball fields become frozen tundra.

How many different sports do the 16 year old players from Honduras, the Dominican or Venezuela play? The further along you go you realize where the bulk of your player’s competition ultimately comes from.

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How many different sports do the 16 year old players from Honduras, the Dominican or Venezuela play? The further along you go you realize where the bulk of your player’s competition ultimately comes from.

Good point.

Nothing wrong with playing other sports.

Nothing wrong with concentrating on one sport.

FWIW, A very significant percentage of those playing professional baseball actually do play baseball year around. Not much of that much needed rest time for those kids. Good observation posted IMO by Floridafan.

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How many different sports do the 16 year old players from Honduras, the Dominican or Venezuela play? The further along you go you realize where the bulk of your player’s competition ultimately comes from.

Play many sports, as you will not be able to do this ever again....

I do love football players who play baseball. They bring an intensity and agressiveness to the game that I like. Consistant attack mode...

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Originally posted by ctandc:
Any college / pro scout or coach will quickly tell you how much they like baseball players that also play other sports. Makes a better all around athlete. It's getting harder and harder to do, even at the HS age.



I do not believe this to be true, it sound good though, especially if you are from up north where baseball fields become frozen tundra.

Boy, this is interesting timing.
My wife and I are taking a "Baseball 101" continuing education course at Stanford.
Last night the speaker was JT Snow. We listened to a 2 hour Q&A last night.
His comments on this issue were pointed and were similar to the thoughts of ctandc.
Snow said that when he graduated HS after being a 3 sport athlete, the only school which offered him a spot was UofA, then coached by Jerry Kindall.
At that point, according to Snow, Kindall's focus was on recruiting multi-sport athletes.
The idea behind it was top multi-sport athletes would have a a bigger upside when they began to focus only on baseball in college.
While acknowledging that his 13 year old son is already being pulled different directions to specialize in only one sport, Snow was adamant in the view that specializing at ages 13-17, and especially before those, isn't needed to have great baseball success beyond HS.

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Originally posted by Sdlefty:
Play many sports, as you will not be able to do this ever again....

I do love football players who play baseball. They bring an intensity and agressiveness to the game that I like. Consistant attack mode...

This may be true in many cases, but at our high school the most aggressive and most intense player only plays baseball. He's the one making diving shoe string catches and can be aggressive on the bases because he knows his limits and experience has taught him what he can get away with on the bases.
I think it's up to the kid and his parents, if he's capable of playing multiple sports, it just shows that he's a great athlete. Some kids can do it and some can't, some want to play multiple sports, many prefer NOT to.

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I do love football players who play baseball. They bring an intensity and agressiveness to the game that I like. Consistant attack mode...

I don't think that necessarily goes hand in hand. It depends on the individual.

All it says is that they can play two sports.

One player on my son's team was about 6'3 290 and he couldn't move, was made a pitcher and threw in the mid 60s on the varsity. He pretty much was a sleepwalker. A good kid though. The other was a very good athlete and solid baseball player. He was an aggressive player. Probably as much so as my son was but mine didn't play football. In the outfield, they were very communicative and as the centerfielder, he had no problem taking charge while my son, who was the rightfielder was as equally aggressive and a ball hawk and had no problem calling off the centerfielder on plays. I heard some of the outfielders who played with him were a bit more yielding to him and were less aggressive going after balls in the OF. Between him and my son, they covered a lot of ground and considering they both played CF and had a CF mentality.

At our very small high school in Ohio, there's been somewhat of a tug-of-war going on with athletes between the different sports. I know this happened with my older son before he graduated. He was a good athlete and I suggested to a couple of coaches over a beer after a football game that they may not want to "make" him choose his sports, because he may not choose "their" sport.
Since we are so small, its nearly impossible to have all athletes specialize in one sport...we need to multiple-sport athletes in order to field the teams! However, I, as a parent, am very frustrated with the coaches putting on a guilt trip if the kid decides to not play a particular sport that year.

My other son, now a junior, was in tears...really...when he told us he didn't want to play basketball this year. He was afraid that we were disappointed in him. Really? I couldn't have been more proud of him for making a decision that was right for him. And it was the right decision because it is paying off for him this spring.

However, one thing he won't do is give up football. He absolutely loves that game too!

BTW, the basketball coaches are still putting a little pressure on us...hoping that we can get him to play basketball next school year. Don't think its gonna happen. I'm afraid that too many bridges have been burned. There were some pretty hurtful comments made when he decided not to play.
Just makes him a stronger person in the end...I'm OK with that.

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I believe it's probably not "over-training" per se. I think it's competitiveness. Kids these days are technically sound and play at a higher level than probably you and I at this age (High School). Most have to be game-ready or risk losing their position to a kid that is. The only way to be game-ready and be consistent, is to prepare.

Many of the Summer programs here are requiring year round commitment both with time and money. That is what I have a problem with. Some of the instruction they are getting year round has been questionable at best as well. As for multi-sport athletes. I have some but not many. I will say I encourage them to play multiple sports to develop athleticism. I don't want just a hitter or a pitcher. I want an athlete that can do these things. Many then choose to specialize for there junior year and that is fine.

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How many different sports do the 16 year old players from Honduras, the Dominican or Venezuela play? The further along you go you realize where the bulk of your player’s competition ultimately comes from.

Many of these kids will also be the best s****r players you have seen in your life. These kids play the game of baseball and do not have personal trainers clocking bullpens in the middle of winter after 10 months of throwing and being off for 1 month. Sometimes to succeed we have to know when to pull back. I am as cpetitive as anyone, but I also know baseball is a passion of lne and it is something to be loved and enjoyed. It is not only used as a training tool for college. If you train to be the best you can be, good. If you spend all year training for the sole purpose of a college scholarship, you may lose out on a lot. What happens when the scholarship doesn't come? Will you feel you waisted a lot of time for that sole purpose? Just some things to think about.

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I have had a few players lately that are playing all summer, all fall, taking November off and then starting in December are working out about 4-5 days a week. Some are even being clocked with radar in January and early February. These kids spend so much time (and even more money) getting ready and then when they get to the season, they cannot play due to arm fatigue or inflammation.

Did anybody really address this part of the original post? I know being from PA (snowy - rainy- cold PA) I don't carry much juice on this site but you all have to agree that this is overdoing it a bit right? Do you believe in the concept of periodization? By that I am using the ASMI concept of cyclical training formulated so that the player reaches peak performance level in season. The player should not be performing at a "competitive (high)" level year round. There should be an off-season structured program geared towards conditioning, strength training and flexibility. The above description of the year in the life of a baseball player is unacceptable to me especially with youth players. I'm talking an eight week minimum here with 12 weeks a possibility. And this is where another sport, can be beneficial in the long run both physically and mentally. Now if you want to sort out the men from the boys as quick as possible, then go ahead and play and practice competitive year round and you'll find out who's going to cut it. The rest are just victim's of friendly fire I guess.

The way it worked down here was that when the summer would begin, we would play games on the weekend. The week would be free to train as the player saw fit. Lifting, lessons throwing to stay loose etc. It really did not seem to be too much of a problem. We were always down completely from the week or so before Thanksgiving and around January 10 or so, just throwing to stay loose.

I can only go by what I see, (Belichick's line) In the last 10 yrs our smallish school has had 3 baseball players go D1. All 3 were what most would consider players with average physical gifts and only played baseball. We've had a good number of players who seemed to be more athletically gifted that played football AND baseball. None of those players went on to play D1 in football or baseball. It all depends on what your kid wants from his experience. Lebron played football, baseball and aau basketball through his sophomore year, it wouldn't have mattered if he'd played tiddlywinks, chess, and basketball. He was that gifted. If you're a physically gifted athlete and can play several sports, that's great if that's what YOU want to do. I think some are pushed into it by parents and coaches and it really isn't their choice.
If the player is a borderline athlete and has his heart set on playing at a D1 school, my advice would be to take care of your body, reduce chances of injury (ACL, concussions, breaks, shoulder separations, all injuries I've seen first hand sidetrack local kids) by playing the sport you love and building up the muscles you need to play your sport in the off season.
A player from our baseball team who is getting some D1 looks was getting some pressure from some people to play football next season. (We have 5 that do) For about 2 weeks he was considering it. His dad was ok with it, his older brother didn't like the idea at all. He now say's he's not playing football.
I just think that if it's such a great idea in high school, why don't college and pro coaches encourage it at those levels? Athletes at that level can over train as well, and there are some that are gifted enough to pull it off.
Each individual gets to weigh his options and make his own choice, there are no set rules, pros and cons either way.

So he can play 3 sports if he wants to go D2 or D3?

It depends on where you are. I've lived in Maine, North Carolina and South Florida over the last 10 years. Maine you are expected to play 3 sports if you're an athlete there are a few that specialize but it is not the norm or expected. In NC it depends on school size and perceived talent. In South Florida it's baseball all the time. If you aren't working on your skill set the next underclassman is and he will take your spot.

Wow.

Didn't realize my comment would stir so much trouble up.

Keep this in mind...if a kid is possibly good enough to play college / pro baseball, then yes they should probably look at specializing in baseball after they are in High School. That being said I didn't realize we were talking about just older kids. YOUTH (as in 9-12 year old) baseball with travel ball being so dominating, has started to tell parents and kids if they want their kid to play college baseball they need to get started now.

First off the percentage of kids that play college or pro baseball is a drop in the bucket. Next is the fact you have no way to project growth consistently. TOO many times I have seen the 10-12 year old stud player peak at that age. I wonder if when these guys turned 15 and they aren't getting any better, if they wish they had played other sports?

"Throwing to stay loose" ?

Any repetitive motion will wear on a body, much less a young body. Not resting the body for that motion is asking for trouble in many cases.

Not to mention the possibility that no parent ever wants to talk about...BURN OUT.

You don't think a kid will wonder what it would be like if he could go hang with his friends instead of go to private lessons? Go to the beach that weekend instead of play ball?

Some kids (and parents) have baseball become their LIFE. And again, parents get emotionally vested and tied to their young son's baseball. It usually doesn't end well if they can't realize it's not their baseball at all.

A poster mentioned kids from the Dominican Republic among other places. The big difference here? The majority of those kids come from poverty stricken backgrounds. Baseball is their dream to a way out. It's a means to an end. And for every Dominican kid who makes good in the MLB, there are probably HUNDREDS who end up hanging their cleats up in small towns across this country after making it to the minors IF THAT.

It would be wrong to compare a 'normal' kid here and a kid from that kind of background. The motivation is from a totally different source...and it's a totally different KIND of motivation.

I wonder how many kids playing baseball (or other sports) partly do it because of how important they perceive it to be for the parents. They want to please them.

Something to consider at least.

The other argument is "upside", as mentioned.

Take a kid who at 18 is fully grown. He's a good athlete, but he had been trained by the best coaches, he's fundamentally sound. He's SUPER polished. How much further is his "upside"?

Now take the kid who has athletic ability, is a good player, but never specialized or been truly instructed. What's his upside?

Which one of these kids do you think a Scout would perceive to have lots of room to "grow" as a player?

Just my 2 cents.

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I can only go by what I see, (Belichick's line) In the last 10 yrs our smallish school has had 3 baseball players go D1. All 3 were what most would consider players with average physical gifts and only played baseball. We've had a good number of players who seemed to be more athletically gifted that played football AND baseball. None of those players went on to play D1 in football or baseball. It all depends on what your kid wants from his experience.

Sure, desire is one component but the overall health and fitness of the player will affect the desire to a great extent. That's why I see something different happening in your scenario than you do. The overall strength and fitness level of high school age players and for that matter all americans is pathetic compared to even a generation or two ago. We are developing a country full of weaklings that are kept healthy through medicine and drugs. Dare I say not only that but they are anesthetized! We have managed to create a longer lifespan despite our poor habits due to the intervention of a more modern medicine. Healthcare because it is such a money maker, features chemical intervention. We will always be overusing our players and risking injury because they are not fit enough to endure the sport. The biggest drug problem comes not from importation of illicit street drugs, but from our own pharmaceutic system.

We have interfered with the concept of survival of the fittest. This is where we find ourselves. With each superior feat we witness in sport our first thought is whether the athlete is cheating with artificial performance enhancing drugs.

We are over training in baseball......but we are working on a weakened platform.

padino, you think the players today are weaker than a generation ago?

a very casual observation is that kids who are still growing are injury prone. one local team has two jv players in back braces due to fractured vertebra, playing only one sport year around. baseball (catchers). same team has had other players with shoulder, knee, elbow, and back issues

at some point, you have to rest. If you are playing one sport year around or three, you have to recuperate. Be smart!

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Originally posted by Coach_May:
So he can play 3 sports if he wants to go D2 or D3?

If he's extremely gifted he can play as many as mom an dad want and still get drafted.
I wasn't tying to start a fight, just giving my opinion based on local observation. Nothing wrong with D2 or D3, each player goes where they fit and find enjoyment in life. Some want to play D1 and some just want to play. Most CAN'T play at the college level, a chosen few excel at any sport they choose. Some prefer fish, others steak, we're not all the same.

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padino, you think the players today are weaker than a generation ago?

Let's just say that generally the average fitness level of participants today enter the program at a lower level than their parents, or their parents parents. I say that even though current social and economic opportunity is much more conducive to the production of superior wellness than previous generations but this society has chosen to undermine those opportunities with inactivity, poor diet, drug abuse, and academic deficiency, to name a few. It has never been easier for a determined, willful person to outperform his/her peers than it is now.

Sorry pa dino while I enjoy your posts i can't agree with this one, not even close. The players today blow away the ones from time period.

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Sorry pa dino while I enjoy your posts i can't agree with this one, not even close. The players today blow away the ones from time period.

I think we could eventually work out our differences in opinion over this one if given the time to expound. We don't have the time...... but one last word...... I am talking about the general pool of population that the best athletes arise out of. I believe your perspective is that the high school athletes of today are bigger, stronger and faster because they have taken advantage of the better equipment and training regimens. To use another example, do you also believe that the average army or marine recruit is in better physical shape today when arriving at boot camp than say any time in the past?

I still believe that if you take a net and scoop up a load of average young Americans today and compare them to a sampling of youths from say 1977, you might be amazed at the deficiencies given all the opportunity that exists now to be better.

In the marine ex I do agree with you and yes I see where you are going with your thoughts. I think I was looking at the high level athletes.

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If these teams value the kid, they should help prepare them and rest them in the off-season adequately rather than send them to their own personal trainers, train them a couple of times a week rather than require daily or near daily training, and let them play other sports when desired rather than recommending against it.

I think you have to remember that teams that play in the summer and into fall do so because that is when many of the college coaches and recruiters could see the players and do recruit them. Many HS baseball players want to play in college. They nor the travel teams made those rules to live by. It only makes sense that to optimize their chances of playing in college they would play when and where they are going to be seen. If you are really concerned for the "player" and his future then the suggestion maybe that HS baseball should be the thing to go. Would you ever tell one of your players to sit out their Spring HS season to rest up for their summer and fall season so they could be fresh and ready to go, probably not.

I don't think anyone ever said that playing in the summer and fall was a bad thing. The post is questioning the over training that follows these. To eliminate high school ball is exactly the kind of thinking that scares me. Is baseball only for those that may get to play in college? That number is few. Or is it about teaching young men life lessons, making lifelong friendships and experiences while learning a skill and about competition, drive, goal setting, dealing with adversity and on and on. If you want a factory, you may be misguided.

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Or is it about teaching young men life lessons, making lifelong friendships and experiences while learning a skill and about competition, drive, goal setting, dealing with adversity and on and on. If you want a factory, you may be misguided.

Why do you think this only happens at a High School. Believe it or not you do get this through travel ball also.

I would not suggest you get rid of HS baseball. It was your suggestion to get rid of a portion of the players season. The question is would you for the health of a player advise him not to play in the spring for HS knowing he will play in the summer and fall.

Shortnquick,
I think you are disagreeing with something I never stated. I believe kids should play ball. High school, summer ball, and fall ball are all great. Please re-read my posts. My stance is that some required off season training regimines established by some teams are keeping kids from being on the field. I do not think we are in disagreement that kids should play. And I have coached high school, summer, and fall - for full disclosure.

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ent and training regimens. To use another example, do you also believe that the average army or marine recruit is in better physical shape today when arriving at boot camp than say any time in the past?

To your point; THEY ARE NOT in near the shape they once were. Recruiters today have had to lower physical standards to allow for weaker males and now, females.

However, today's athletes, as you suggest; are bigger, faster and stronger.

.
For a wide range of reasons, youth sports have grown increasingly competitive over the last decade...as a result players are driving, and being driven harder than ever before...(it's now a kids job as much as it is a game)...year round play and training is the norm and overtraining is now endemic to youth sports in a way that it never was before. Part of it is trying desperately to turn kids of limited athletic ability into studs, part of it is turning studs into household names.

As this continues to ratchet up (and it will)...the presssure, the physical demands, the $, the comittment will drive some players out of the game...willingly or unwillingly. Some of those who leave will get away unscarred others will not.

It simply comes with the competitive territory....survival of the fittest...and it aint going away...we can tweak and twist but it is bigger than us.

Multiple sports? The studs can play more than one sport simply becasue they can, and get away with it just fine....but the majority are going to pay a price in a single sport if they do so. Which leads to a discussion of what the endgame of youth sports really is...for the studs and for the rest of us. Life lessons? Success? $? Fame?

44
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I thought I was in good shape when I went off to boot camp in the 60s. Once I got there it was obvious just how weak and out of shape I was.

I suppose the over all population is probably in worse physical condition these days. I hear obesity is at an all time high. However there's no question that (as a whole) todays athletes are better trained, stronger, faster. I'm not so sure about smarter or tougher, though.

The physical aspect of todays athlete is most apparent (IMO) in Football. Even though the equipment has improved greatly, the size, speed and strength of the players has turned a dangerous sport into a more dangerous sport, even borderline deadly sport. To the point that even the NFL is making rule changes due to the dangers involved.