Over use of young pitchers fueling Tommy John surgery

Verducci is a moron.  Do I have to read it?

It's probably from travel ball and to a lesser extent LL. My son has been seeing curve balls since he was 9 years old. After you get past the two or three kids on the team that can throw it past you and they are throwing some junk too the"junk baller" appears warming up. Nothing like seeing a 9-13 year old throwing 70% junk with varying degrees of success . And the bad thing is there are worse things than that . How about the kid who pitches the first game on Friday,eats up an inning or two Saturday so they can get the one seed (gotta have it),possibly has to come in the must win in bracket play on Sunday, and then pitches in the SHIP. And this happens before High school.

Sultan I agree.  In the article they talk about signing a 84/85mph kid and letting him grow into the volume.  This would "never" happen in the states.  My son is 89- 92 and is told he needs to throw harder to make any real money in the draft.  If early velocity is the cause then the MLB needs to look at themselves, travel ball just mirrors what they see at the highest levels.  Additionally teams have schools in Latin America where baseball is taught in the states your on your own.

I've been reading all of these "TJ" threads for about a week now.  There seems to be a lot of finger pointing and supposing...some of it based in fact and studies, some of based on anectdotal experience.  Since my son also pitches and works toward a future of playing at the next level (wherever that might be), I too want to do as much as possible to prevent any injury or overuse.

 

Having said all that, I'm no "Carnac" (young folks can Google it...).  What I do know is nobody has all the answers and we have to do our best to protect our players.  As parents/coaches, we are their best advocate for almost all things (baseball and life).  Although he hasn't commented on this posting I definitely agree with and respect J H's views on the subject.

 

In our first meeting three years ago, my son's pitching coach relayed his pearls of wisdom:

 

1) Your body is a machine.  Any excessive repetitive motion will eventually wear out the part you're using.
2) Sound mechanics will allow you to maximize your potential and minimize your risk of injury.
3) There are only so many bullets in your gun.  Some have more, some have less, but eventually everybody runs out.
4) You are a pitcher.  The odds are you will eventually experience some kind of throwing related injury.  My job is to make sure you're already in college or getting paid before that happens.

 

Our sons (or our players) chose this path, but they have no idea at the start what is in their best interest.  It's our job to set boundaries and make things clear to whomever needs to know.  I know some (not all) coaches may gristle at parents "telling them what they can and can't do with their players".  To them I will say this:  I make my position very clear before any season starts (HS, summer, scout, etc.).  If we agree, great and they won't hear another word from me for the remainder of the season.  If not, good luck with your team.

 

Okay, I'm off the soapbox now.  Sorry for rambling.

Until pitch counts and appearances are tracked from the time a pitcher first pitches no one is going to be able to provide a correct answer. My guess is it's all the pitching some kids do on travel teams (not because it's travel/because the coach and parents are ignorant) from ages 9-14 when they are growing the most and the most vulnerable to growth plate and associated tendon and muscle issues.

 

Travel isn't the problem. Travel just provides the avenue for abuse when combined with coaches and parents who aren't concerned with arm health. A kid can now be in a weekly pitching rotation for several months from 9u to 17u. When I was a kid we had LL. We pitched once a week for two and a half months. Typically only 11 and 12yo's pitched.

 

Blaming travel for arm problems would be like claiming it's silverware's fault people are fat.

All true probably.  So how do you dis-encourage parents from buying into the year-round baseball that is so prevalent and so often 'hyped' (including on this site) and almost surely adds a lot of pitches onto young arms at earlier and earlier ages?

Parents should educate themselves--this site is a great start--about the dangers of playing any sport year-round.  I'm not sure I'm following you on the "so often 'hyped' (including on this site)" line though.  Although I don't post often, I have viewed just about every message thread several times daily since I joined this site last year (yes, I probably need a 12-step support group).

 

While there are several organizations that tout their showcases and programs, I can't remember any of them stating players should play year-round.  Parents and older players need to manage their playing "workloads" and plan their own off season periods.  If that means they can't make specific showcases or fall leagues, then so be it.

 

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my son would not have garnered attention as early as he did without some of those showcases.  I would like to believe colleges and scouts would have found him eventually, but I know most of them started following him because they saw him in those events.

 

I'm not defending nor am I endorsing any specific event and I'm definitely NOT a proponent of year-round baseball (unless I'm watching it).  I'm simply saying these events have value for players looking to be considered at the next level.  Parents/players just need to decide which one offers the most benefit to them and adjust their pitching schedule to suit their needs. 

The word "hyped" was probably used too loosely.  I was referring to the advice we all so often give about joining travel team, travel team, travel team...that I think often gets translated into year-round baseball.

 

Gotta give your best asset a rest.

I don't think there are many of us out there that can honestly say we steadfastly monitored and regulated our son's pitches and rest.  I can count on one hand the number of times mine has thrown more than 100 pitches in a game.  I can also tell you I worry about the long-term effects of each and every one of those outings.  Was he conditioned for them?  I would like to think so.  Were those games important?  At the time, we (parents and coaches alike) sure thought so.  Did he get extended rest after each time?  Sure.  Still makes me nervous.

 

One more pearl of wisdom from the pitching coach:

 

- If you want to increase your pitching velocity:  STOP PITCHING.

 

Take 8-12 weeks off and get into a pitching-specific workout routine.  After two weeks, throwing again is fine (I happen to like long toss and the much-debated Jaeger program, but that's a personal preference), but ZERO pitching.  You'll come out the other end stronger.  We try to carve out 8-10 weeks once a year and another 6 weeks twice a year.

 

So far, so good......it's a marathon, not a sprint.  Only problem with baseball is you don't ever get to know where the finish line is until you're there and then...there you are.

I like your posts and I agree with you for the most part.

 

But I can tell you that our older son did each and every thing you wrote above…and then he felt the pain.  And after that, 2 weeks ago today, he had the surgery.

 

He felt he was in the best condition of his life (age 27), never ever had any arm injury whatsoever and as you outlined…did all of that stuff above.  He's one of the numbers in the article linked above…part of a statistic now for MLB pitchers in 2014.

Why did it happen?  We simply don't know.  Nor did his team doctor nor the one who did the  surgery.  They told him that every single pitch you throw a pitcher comes within 10% of this injury.  Stands to reason that as time goes on and you throw 1 more pitch, your risk increases until 'the number comes up.'  But who knows?  I don't.

That's interesting. But it also provides a good reason that there is concern with the excess that has become of youth sports. All sports, with many people to blame. Fatigue leads to overuse injuries which lead to "the big one." So many "major" injuries like UCL rupture or ACL rupture are the result of more minor injuries, whether we knew it at the time or not... And so it makes sense that the more you're out there, the greater the chance you will suffer that big injury.

JBB:  I feel for you and your son, but I also know that what got him to the show will be the same thing that gets him back (talent, drive and an unbelievable work ethic).  He got a taste and I'd be willing to bet there's no greater motivation to get back.  I keep hearing the ol' pitching coach's words over and over again in my head.  The wisdom he laid down with those four things in our initial meeting was never more true.

 

Pitchers face that risk every outing, but most can't imagine doing anything else.  It's been said over and over in this post.  Make every attempt to minimize damage and hope for the best.

 

 

Hope "justbaseball" doesn't mind.  I did a little research on his son.  Erik was an outstanding pitching prospect in High School. He played in 4 PG events.  National Showcase, Aflac All American Classic, and two tournaments with his Travel team NorCal.  I would have to go to the office to see how many innings he pitched in those two tournaments.  I know he was not abused and NorCal has had many MLB players and prospects over the years.

 

Eric pitched two innings at the National Showcase.  Not many pitches because there were no base runners.  He threw one short inning in the Aflac Game. Total 3 short innings!

 

i have no idea how much he threw in high school.

 

At Stanford in 4 years he threw 227 innings. In his first two full seasons in professional baseball he threw 267 innings. His total innings pitched in the minor leagues is 556 innings. That does not count the innings he has thrown in the Big Leagues. Also doesn't count any off season or winter ball.

 

If someone uses him in a study, he will be listed as someone that attended showcases and played travel baseball.  Maybe the reason he is having TJ surgery is those three short innings he threw for us.

 

This whole topic is getting the best of me.  When I find time I am going to check every MLB player who has ever had Tj surgery.  I am going to find out if they ever attended a PG event.  Wonder what people would think if I find out that the vast majority of those MLB pitchers that have had TJ surgery did not attend showcases or play travel baseball?

 

Any time a pitcher takes the mound he is taking a risk.  Yes, that includes showcases, travel baseball, high school baseball, legion baseball, college baseball, sand lot baseball, pro baseball, or any other baseball.  I find it very strange that while looking for something to blame, our name gets mentioned at times.  Heck, I have seen kids blow their arm in high school baseball.  I will always remember seeing the Legion pitcher laying on the mound in pain after being used to death in order to win the legion tournament. Yes, he ended up having TJ.  Some of the college pitch counts are insane.

 

Yet when I read these articles, there never seems to be any mention of all those cases. Even here on this site, we read the stories, i.e. 191 pitches.  I suppose if that kid needs surgery and they find out he went to a showcase and played travel ball, that will be the reason he got injured.

 

I'm willing to bet that the truth in most cases is exactly what "justbaseball" stated.  We just don't know for sure!  BTW, I too have a son that had TJ surgery.  I actually think I know what caused it.  However the doctor that did the surgery, told him it was something  that happened over a period of time.  He never went to a showcase and he never played travel ball.  He did pitch a lot in professional baseball. 11 or 12 years!

 

in the past few years we have seen a very large number of the top Dominican prospects at our events.  I have to respectfully disagree with TPM.  They are flocking over here with Dominican teams and players.  We are very well known to the consulate there.  We are working with some former executives from the MLB office to actually do some events in the Dominican.  The part I disagree with TPM on is we have seen a large number of young Dominican pitchers throwing in the mid 90s at 16 years old.  

 

I did find it interesting that so few Dominicans have had TJ surgery.  Of course, they only referenced MLB pitchers in the article I read.  It seems like Japanese pitchers also have less cases of TJ.  Got me to thinking, maybe it is some kind of genetic issue.  It seems like African American players also have less cases. Could it be so simple that some people have smaller or weaker ligaments than others?

 

Anyway, for the record, I do believe youth baseball in some cases is a problem. I'm talking about the very young kids, 8-12 year olds.  I get reminded of this every year while watching the Little League World Series on television. And they monitor it better than most at that age.  

 

Also, I am all for kids playing other sports. All for pitchers taking time off.  At the same time I see nothing wrong if someone wants to concentrate on one sport.  I can say that we know a lot of current MLB players who only played baseball year around.  We also know many that were two or even three sport guys in high school. However, if concentrating on baseball is the problem, then most every college and pro player is in danger.

PG,
That is interesting about the 16 year old pitchers from the DR.  Why do you suppose they are throwing so hard at 16? 
I know that there you can get just about anything you want to make you stronger.  The amount of dominican players caught in milb on steroids is alarming.  Its just another one of those things that happens with pitchers.

I am not sure why you are taking this so personally.  All of this is accumulative.   Its the parents responsibilty to make good choices. 
The same year Erik Davis pitched in the PG National so did son.  If you go back and read his report you will see that he pitched a few days before he pitched in the National.   That was over 10 years ago. It was  very unusual and we allowed it.   Although he has never had TJS he has had surgery to move his ulnar nerve.  Stuff happens. He is a pitcher.  No one is to blame.

You hit the nail on the head with the LLWS.  In my opinion that says it all about how youth baseball is at fault with future injuries.
My concern is not the MLB players having TJS but the players having TJS not in MLB.  Do people really care about them?
Anyway I hope that you get my point.  I cant speak for the writers but I doubt there are any folks here who blame PG for players having TJS.

The reason I take it personal is because our name is actually mentioned in one of the articles. In fact it is the only organization called out by name. Makes you wonder if they even know there are many organizations that run showcases and tournaments.

 

Also, when a Major League manager speaks out people tend to listen.  Guess Joe doesn't know that we have had the sons of many MLB managers at our events.  None of them are talking about this being a problem because they are involved in it. Also had the sons of several scouting directors and many other scouts.  Even had the sons of a couple GMs.  And a very large number of former Major Leaguers sons. Yet one manager, the one that has experienced the fewest cases of TJ surgery is the one talking. All because for only the second time he has a pitcher that is having TJ surgery.  No mention that that pitcher never attended a showcase and did not play travel baseball.

I agree that we just don't know. 

 

Personally I am a huge fan of multiple sports, giving kids a break (not only physical but mental) and not over pitching them, particularly at a young age. 

 

One other comment related to conditioning/"number of bullets". I am a huge fan of Jaeger however he contends that many injuries are related to lack of conditioning, which is probably true, however he is a proponent of year round conditioning (throwing) using the logic that you don't stop conditioning for other sports, but I would argue that you cross condition for other sports, sprinters for example have a very set routine on what they work on in and out of season. They move from heavy lifting, to explosive, then to run conditioning and it would make sense to have the same approach with pitchers. 

 

Great stuff discussed here.  My son is 13.  What are some exercises he can do now to strengthen his arm for pitching or playing center field?

If a 45 year old Plumber is diagnosed with a Inguinal Hernia, his present employer will usually be the one paying the bill. Did he receive this injury fixing a leak?, or lifting boxes at his previous job, perhaps the damage happened while lifting weights and playing football 4 years at OU. The truth is the abdominal wall is an area of the body that can easily be weakened by use and overuse.(sounds familiar huh?) When and where this becomes an issue is anyone"s guess.

 

The good news is God has put some guy's down here that can get our boy's back on the field if this were to happen.

JBB, I want to send out my prayers to your son as well.  My son also went through a similar situation a couple of years ago, with the exception of the surgery.  He was able to rehab only and by a minor (or major) miracle his UCL healed itself.  In my conversation with Dr. Andrews, he told me the same things that he mentioned in the article ie: overuse, too much baseball year round, etc.  The one thing that he said to me that stuck was that the harder throwers are the ones at highest risk for injury.  We can debate the fact the harder throwers are used more and that is probably true to some point, but not just the hardest throwers are used to pitch.  I truly believe that it is a combination of things, with genetics playing a large role.  Rather that be a genetically weaker ligament or a genetically gifted arm that puts more stress on the ligament with each throw.  I can see both sides of the "take time off" argument, and I do agree that kids certainly should take time off from the mound, but I can't seem to make myself understand why throwing in a controlled program year round is a bad idea.  Maybe I am just an uneducated idiot on this subject.  I'm not sure we well ever really understand because there are just too many variables and the injuries seem to be from a cross section of kids.  Again, I want to send you my sincerest condolences and I wish for your son a complete and speedy recovery to return to what he loves most.

Thanks younggun - I echo all that you said.  Good stuff!

too.tall....my son is almost 13 and we focus on strengthening his core...yoga, light squats, crunches, push ups, play basketball.  jaegersports (google them) has a baseball yoga video to watch under strength and condition.  Just don't wear the capri yoga shorts, people will laugh.  Trust me, I know.

 My point being, trying to pin point where the majority of the damage took place is anybody's guess.

One more opinion to throw into the mix.  Blewett advocates most of the usual precautions, but adds the detail of cutting down on "max-effort throws". I tend to agree. (Not sure if he determined this before or after his 2nd TJ surgery.)

 

http://www.warbirdacademy.com/...the-injury-epidemic/

 

It also occurred to me while watching some very talented 14U position players in Florida one day... The position players really benefit from year-round play, but unfortunately someone also has to pitch. What's good for the one group is not good for the other.

 

I played ice hockey as a kid. The kids who played/skated year-round were much better players than those who didn't. The kids from Canada played on an entirely different level. No one worried about fatigue, burn-out, or injury.

too tall Google "throwers 10" exercises as a start.

 

Get some bands from Jaeger sports and their thrive on throwing CD and the combination of the bands, throwers 10 and following the program he will be fine. (just don't let him pitch too much!)

 

I have also heard the suggestion that harder throwers are at higher risk, which is pretty basic conclusion, anyone with a technical background will know that loads on a system are a "velocity squared function" which means that stresses go up exponentially with velocity. In some systems torque is a cubed function so loads really go up non linear with velocity/torque. 

Since PG seems to be getting thrown into the mix, I guess I'll ask a silly question.

 

Jaeger bands?  I'll bet 90% of these pitchers having the surgery began using them as teenagers.  Should we be questioning whether or not they're a contributing cause?

 

Ok, I'm not really serious, but why are they immune to the discussion when others aren't?

To me, blaming PG is almost as pointless as blaming Wilson and Spalding for making the baseballs.  The system that has developed for getting exposure may well be part of the problem, but PG is just a part of that system... along with the recruiters and scouts who rely on these camps and showcases, along with their own camps and try outs.  Next level teams are looking for the best players, the best players are looking for exposure to next level teams.  PG and others are simply meeting a marketing demand.  The key take  away for me is that parents and players are responsible for proper training, conditioning and scheduling. JMO

 

 

Many pitchers (before they become PO) play other positions where as the position guys do not pitch.  How many pitchers also played SS and caught or because of their strong arm played 3B?

I see this as part of the problem.

JMO

PG, I'm only trying to be helpful here, but this type of article is probably not helpful.

http://perfectgame.org/Article...ew.aspx?article=9748 "Sky-high velos, sky-high interest"

Bukauskas threw fastballs that registered, first, at 98 mph and finally at 99 mph. That was up from his previous high of 93 mph recorded at the 2013 Perfect Game Junior National Showcase in June.
And then it happened. This past Monday (April 14) while pitching against West Potomac High School (Va.), Bukauskas not only threw a seven-inning one-hitter with 18 strikeouts but according to reports had his fastball touch 100 mph on at least two occasions on several scouts’ radar guns. The social media floodgates officially flew open.

I blame it on the cleats, 100% of all TJ surgery players wore them!

 

I do get the point, but most of the band exercises (Jaeger included) are just variations on the "throwers 10" which have a medical history of success. 

 

If I had a hard throwing son I can guarantee I would limit how many innings I would allow him to pitch. These kids don't need travel ball, just a few PG events and a limited HS experience and that would be it. 

 

 

SultanofSwat,

 

I understand what you mean, but this is a kid with a very interesting story.  Like any kid that pitches, he is at risk, maybe more so due to the velocity.  Any suggestions?  Don't do a story on a young kid throwing 100 mph?  Don't mention the 100 mph?  We are involved deeply in draft coverage right now.  The kid is draft eligible.  Regarding potential TJ candidates... That would be pretty much every pitcher that will be drafted.

 

On another note, we have started doing our own study, based on nothing more than the facts.  Even in the early stages it is very interesting to say the least.  The only list we can find has about 250 MLB and Minor League players that have had TJ since 2008.

 

Of those 250 about 35 participated in PG showcases or tournaments.  Most of those appearances were short, most one or two events, most all were in what would be consider the actual baseball season rather than the winter.

 

Now here is the most revealing thing!  Since 2008 PG participants that pitched in the Major Leagues - Nearly 300!  That is not counting an extremely large number that pitched in the minor leagues During those years, probably more than 2,000, I'm just guessing for now.

 

Think about those numbers.  35 TJ cases out of thousands that participated in PG events.  We all know the risks involved in pitching, I hate it every time I see someone we know having the surgery.  I even understand that all of baseball has to share in any blame.  But they claim one third of all MLB pitchers have had TJ.  Why would anyone mention PG as the culprit when the numbers/percentages show the complete opposite.

 

One more thing... Does anyone ever keep track of when these TJ surgeries take place?  I get it that these injuries are caused by overuse, improper rest, poor conditioning, etc., sometimes over a long period of time.  But why do so many of these,the majority in fact, happen during the spring rather than the summer or fall?

 

The truth is we have seen the abuse.  We never see abuse at our showcases, but it stands out like sore thumb when it happens in a tournament.  Most of the top travel programs have more pitching than they need.  Most of them are very protective of the young arms.  Nobody wants to be the reason a young kid needs surgery. Same thing is true in high school and college. The good coaches don't abuse pitchers!  

 

So why not place the blame where it belongs.  With the people out there that continually put these kids health at risk.  Problem is, what do you do about that?  Educate the parents?  Sometimes they are the problem!  Most of us have heard it... "Why did they take Johnny out."  "He gets stronger late in the game", "He has a rubber arm"!

 

All our rules for pitching in Showcase events are geared toward protecting the pitcher.  5 hitters and the inning ends.  No walks, after 4 balls the strike count stays and the pitcher must throw nothing but fastballs.  No taking the mound without sufficient warm up.  Everything possible to protect the pitcher and yet some parents complain that their son didn't get to pitch enough.  Endurance is important at some point, but not at a showcase.  Any baseball person can accurately evaluate a pitchers skills in 20-30 pitches.  Actually I could argue it might take 10 or less pitches.  Sure there are more things to find out, endurance is one of those!  But can you imagine the number of injuries that would result from testing how long a pitcher can throw effectively?  These endurance tests are happening all over baseball.  The 191 pitches discussed in a different thread is an endurance test!  In fact over the years there have been many topics on this site about extremely high pitch counts in games.  Where is that kind of stuff happening?  It's not at PG events!

 

I don't have all the answers.  So far I don't think anyone does!  I only know that the statistics show those that have TJ surgery are actually LOWER than the average for those that have participated in PG events. So why are we mentioned as the problem? Why do the abusers out there get by without mention?  I know Boyd used to keep track of the highest pitch counts in college!  I know we track pitch counts at every event we do.  But there is no way to track every pitcher that is in summer or high school baseball. Also, I will add this, hope it doesn't offend anyone here... The dumbest people of all are involved in the most important phase of development... Youth baseball!  The younger they are the dumber the coach.  I apologize to those many youth coaches that do a great job. But I think they would agree with me anyway!

In all this argument about the evils of "year round" travel, one thing has always interested me. For the most part, that is limited to warm weather states like Florida, California, and Texas who also, by far, produce the most higher level players.

My kids started the travel ball at 9.  I helped coach and took this issue very seriously.  We read everything we could get our hands on to understand the best thinking available and we lost games because we wouldn't bring a kid back after he reached our predetermined limits. 

 

Saw a 9 year old throw 129 pitches against us.  Next year had elbow surgery and never pitched again.  We played that team off and on for another 4 years.  It was sad.  His grandfather approached our Head coach once and had a conversation with him and was stunned to hear we remembered his grandson and shared our approach.  The old man cried and said that he wished his grandson had played for people trying to act that responsibly.

 

I don't know if we were lucky or did the right thing but every player we ever had got to HS with their arms intact and to my knowledge has never had a serious arm injury.  I do believe if you are going to get involved with coaching a travel team...and let's face it about 90+ are run by well meaning fathers up to HS, I do believe that getting up to speed in this area is a must and then making a plan and sticking to it.

 

I always said that no one will remember who won the 10U Easter one day Tourney in any town USA but they might remember a player in the game if he stays healthy to play ball long enough to find how good they might be.

Luv baseball,

 

I agree that in the younger age groups more often than not a parent will be coaching.  

 

However, in the level we are most involved in, you very seldom see a parent coaching.  In most cases the better organizations have very good baseball people in charge.  This does not eliminate The potential for arm injury, but it does lower the risk.

hmmm...

 

Little Johnny's pitch count is subject to being abused in youth, travel, HS, showcases, and college.

There are statistics indicating that the prevalence of TJ in MLB is far, far higher for U.S.-born pitchers than for Carribbean pitchers.

 

If this were a teenage question, you might attribute that to the inability of Latin players to pay for the surgery.  But in MLB, cost is equal for both groups, i.e.., covered by the CBA plan.

 

I think if you were to visit, e.g., the Dominican Republic, you would not see all this concern about year-round baseball or the amount of throwing.  In the past, I read stories about Andruw Jones, who grew up in Curacao, where young children don't go to school and basically hang around a sandlot playing all day without shoes and using re-formed milk cartons for gloves.

 

What I would respectfully suggest that this shows is that, far from being over used, American pitchers are not throwing enough at a young age.  Or, perhaps there is too much emphasis on pitching and not enough on just throwing, that is, working on the basic mechanics and developing strength, stamina and endurance.

 

When I was a kid you used to be able to get rubber-coated baseballs -- not like the "squooshy" molded rubber things you get now, but practice balls that were hard but coated for durability.  I used to go in my backyard and throw it against the brick wall of my house just to pass the time.  I usually threw 500 times on any day when it wasn't pouring down rain or frozen outside.  On occasion I would test myself to see how many throws I could get in.  I threw 2,000 times on numerous occasions.  And I never once in my life had any sort of arm injury.

 

It's just one man's opinion, but I think there is too much, too soon in terms of working on high velocity throwing, and not enough emphasis on just throwing for mechanics and durability these days.  It seems to me the best approach is to build the foundation first and then move on to the higher performance levels.  So if travel ball is to be blamed, perhaps the problem is at the pre-HS age levels where the strong kid is throwing off a mound once a week for 100 pitches, resting his arm the rest of the week, and not doing enough just plain THROWING.

I used to hunt squirrels with hard green walnuts in the off season. Skip rocks all day long, go to my practice, and to my brother's, every pick up game I could find. I would play with guy's I didn't know. Shag balls all day long and just to swing the bat a few times. it was different back then that's for sure.

 I forgot to mention spitting off the dock and killing perch with a baseball or golf ball when they surfaced. But that was all before cable TV and Nintendo.

Midlo, 

 

My son's pitching coach is Dominican, ex MLB'er and works for a very well known agency.  He says exactly what you say on the difference b/w latin American players and US born players and the amount of throwing they do and arm health.