Parents vs. Coach: Battle goes wild....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/10/22/MNGTILTVRT1.DTL

Not to savy with technology but if you go to the San Francisco Chronicle web site you will find the article. Just unbelievable. Then people wonder why coaches want no part of certain situations. What is so evident is that the administration of this school caves in to these parents. They have no guts. We talk about the this situation of parents but I have always said people will do with what you let them.

What happen to the integrity and morality of our elected officials? I was not suprised but extremely disturbed to see the involvement of a Judge in this mess. A small man with a little power. I have seen this personally in my professional life. What kind of judge can he be if he can not manage or handle this situation in a more adult manner? Hopefully for this school and this coach it will get better when this kid graduates. I applaud the coach for her resolve. Maybe she will weather the storm and everybody in this community will learn a valuable lesson.

One of my memories as a high school football player; the team was all weight lifting (mandatory) just after the season ended. The head football coach came into the weight room and started polling the players, individually by name, in a BIG BOOMING voice if we're playing football next year. Coach got to a then junior, 3 sports, 2 year varsity letterman, which was our stud tailback. This kid had an athletic gift. This guy, just to be a smart @ss started his answer with “well, I don’t know coach…” That's all he got out of his mouth before he was shown the door. Shame, he never played his senior year. Our team went on to win conference (there wasn’t a state playoff or tournaments back then, dating myself), coach went on to be the defensive line coach for the Buffalo Bills, and our QB went on to be the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings.

It was his way or the highway… The parents were there to booster and raise money. No one would have dared intervene let alone discuss playing time???????

Wait until “the loves of their lives” comes home to meet the parents and ask for their daughters hand…..

quote:

and our QB went on to be the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings.

Your quarterback was Bud Grant? I always thought you were younger than that

Seriously, it was painful to read this story. The mutinous parents were the villains obviously. The cowtowing school officials have handled the situation shamefully. Is there no decency anymore

CD:

Thanks for linking the story.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Is there no decency anymore

And my answer to your question is this...shamefully not much. And considering there is little to no shame anymore, that then makes the decency question even more troubling.

Wow. While I was reading the article, I had an urge to write a letter of support (sympathy) to that poor coach.

Please note that I've consolidated some of the information and edited other portions along with adding bold face on some portions for emphasis.

Selected portions from: San Francisco Chronicle Sunday, October 22, 2006.

Parents vs. Coach: Battle Goes Wild

By: C.W. Nevius.

quote:

It's the kind of over-the-top behavior that's increasingly common -- parents running on the field, screaming from the sidelines and, in the worst cases, punching out officials. It happens when well-intentioned parents let their protective instincts for their children overwhelm their good judgment.

Well-intentioned parents using poor judgment. I could not agree more with that. This certainly is not limited to the Bay Area.

quote:

As Castro Valley athletic director Marie Gray said when she addressed the school board last week, "Thanks. You put Castro Valley on the map."

Thank goodness for that...at first I thought they were talking about the Artichoke Capital of the World...Castroville. We can't be having unrest like this in our nation's artichoke heartland. What a relief!

quote:

At the center of the seven-month maelstrom is Nancy Nibarger, a quiet 20-year teaching veteran who is beginning her third year as head girls basketball coach at Castro Valley. She played college basketball at Kansas State and was an assistant coach at high-powered college programs like Cal and Kansas.

Who wouldn't want such a highly experienced coach like this teaching and coaching your kids? Who can blame her if she ends up sitting in the corner of the gym muttering "I've a feeling I'm not in Kansas anymore."

quote:

In fact, many think the sanctions were designed to force her to quit, but Nibarger is sticking it out. "Some of the kids who chose to back me, and even some who decided to stay out of it altogether, are kind of being bullied," Nibarger says. "That's one of the reasons I decided not to quit. It seemed like the right thing to do."

This is an example of why she is, by all appearances, a very good coach.

quote:

The two assistant coaches Nibarger had last year are not being asked to return. Those two, a member of the Cal women's basketball Hall of Fame and a San Leandro policeman, were told by the school board they were not welcome back, even though there was not a single complaint filed against them.

This is even more troubling than it seems...who would even think about volunteering their valuable time to help the kids if this is how you are treated in this district?

quote:

"Look," says Lauren Otten, a co-captain on Nibarger's first team three years ago and a unanimous all-district choice. "I have played basketball all my life. I played year-round basketball for six years. I know coaches. And she was the calmest, nicest coach I ever had in my life."

What is her agenda? This kid seems like a very credible witness...listen to her.

quote:

"They'd get a little cadre of parents together and itch and moan," says Martha Kohl, a middle school teacher who has been the basketball team scorekeeper for 10 years. Nibarger thinks the heart of the issue is the difference between offseason, paid programs and varsity high school sports, and her former team captain agrees.

Warmer, warmer...now we're getting somewhere!

quote:

Otten says parents typically pay $1,500 a year for private basketball club teams. They don't expect to shell out that kind of money to see their daughter sit on the bench. Nor is it atypical for club coaches to praise a marginal player to the skies. After all, the program needs to keep that money coming. That environment sets unrealistic expectations.

B-I-N-G-O!

quote:

"A lot of people came in thinking great things about themselves," says Otten. "They were expecting a lot of playing time just because they were on the team.'' That sense of entitlement is threatening to overwhelm varsity sports in high school. Parents aren't just questioning the coaches, they are demanding their heads on a platter.

This is just really sad.

quote:

"First," Sweet said, "I want to dispel one story line, which is that this is somehow Judge Goodman's case. That's not true." Maybe not, but the swashbuckling judge -- who pilots a 32-foot gunboat as a "homeland security maritime specialist" for the Alameda County Sheriff's Department -- is certainly deeply involved. Goodman was an assistant coach for the junior varsity team two years ago whose daughter, a guard, will be a senior this season. Although they are careful not to accuse him directly, almost all of Nibarger's supporters believe Goodman spearheaded the protests.

What was the name of the last newsworthy person to be piloting his boat around San Francisco Bay? Scott? Scott who? Oh yeah...Scott Peterson. I know...I know...that's totally irrelevant and absurd...that's exactly why I mentioned it.

quote:

"I think the community kowtowed to these people," says Barbara Siegel, president of the Castro Valley Teachers Association. "He was certainly a part of that power group. He wasn't the only one, but he was one of them.'' Someone certainly had some juice. Although Gray says she didn't "get a single complaint in the AD's office during the season, even an anonymous phone call," the parents group presented Nibarger with a formal letter just after the final game of the season.

Again, very sad.

quote:

"She's making it all about herself," says Sweet. "She has never once acknowledged that there might be a problem." In fact, Sweet says, half of the 14 girls on last year's team signed the original letter protesting Nibarger's coaching. He says Nibarger's supporters would not be standing with her if they knew the real facts.

I actually agree with some of this. I've been vocal on the HSBBW on other threads concerning problems with coaches and problems do exist at times with a coach, but in this case it seems apparent that the facts point to the coach not being a problem.

quote:

"What I want to know," says coach Rodriguez, "is what are these kids going to do when they leave home and have a boss or a professor they don't like? They can't destroy everyone they don't like."

Double B-I-N-G-O...or whatever it is you say after hitting BINGO twice.



C.W. Nevius' column appears regularly. His blog C.W.Nevius.blog and podcast "News Wrap," can be found at SFGate.com. E-mail him at cwnevius@sfchronicle.com.

If the coach quits, wonder how many will apply for that job?

Gotta go PUKE now!

I'll help you out PG...down the hall, second door on the right...when you're done, jiggle the handle a bit...the arm gets hung up every so often.

The lady is ".lc9o3_"

Sounds like she enjoys dealing with "crazies".

I would have quit a long time ago and left them (her opponents) to their own vices.

Life is too short for such nonsense.

(And all this for a $2500 to $5000 stipend to coach the team...Crazy!)

The sense of entitlement is running so strong among parents and their kids these days. Its really sad that it has come to things like this happening. After reading that article it sounds like that coach is a very strong person that those girls are lucky to be playing for.

I think it was an old Seinfeld episode.


The problem is there is no longer any GRACE in the world.

The Huns are at the Gate...

quote:

The Huns are at the Gate...

AcademyDad - welcome to the hsbaseballweb

Your line quoted above made me think of the REM song having the following chorus:

quote:

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

I am told by folks involved with both types of programs that the drama level in male high school team sports truely pales in comparison to female programs. Hard to believe given the drama we experienced.

I read an article today by a sports editor taking parting shots on his way out of Salem Oregon:

quote:

There have been some exceptionally difficult situations to work through. Parents of athletes have been overbearing at times, leaving voice mails and writing e-mails as if I were a species lower than human. Kids, as anybody who has been through high school knows, can make one's life miserable as well. Add that to the reality that this is a hard, unforgiving business, and there have been times I wanted to walk out on this endeavor forever.

Reporter Dan Itel says a hearty goodbye to Salem

Note to parents: going after the 22 year old local sports reporter is very bad form. I can't even concoct a reason to attack a reporter covering high school sports.

My perception is the turnover rate in high school coaching is increasing with the parental involvement level. The situation is spiraling downward.

Here are a couple ways to voice your opinion

Board of Education Members:

George Granger, president Phone: (510) 537-3000, Ext. 1688

Kunio Okui, vice president/clerk Phone: (510) 537-3000, Ext. 1686

John Barbieri Phone: (510) 537-3000, Ext. 1685

Jo Loss Phone: (510) 537-3000, Ext. 1693

Janice Friesen: (510) 537-3000, Ext. 1687

I could not find the Boards e-mail addresses.... To voice my concern and opinion I will be leaving a voicemail. I also e-mailed the coach with a message of support

School e-mail addresses

Yeah - I had the same reaction - to write a letter to the coach in support. That school is in our league, and has had its fill of racial strife the last few years also. Sounds like a leadership problem.

I also thought the key to the article was the mention of SUMMER TEAMS and the sense of entitlement based on performance, or someone else's perception of the talent level (perhaps based on how much money they pay). And then I thought about it in relation to baseball. I know of key performers on elite summer teams who are recruited by D1 programs but who get little or no playing time due to local high school politics. I also have seen parents of elite summer team players b%#ch and moan when their supposedly elite player is on the JV's, because of a sense of entitlement from their summer team play. And I'm sure you all know of players who have been "stars" on Little League, Babe Ruth, Pony, etc., but then get to high school and can't compete or get beat out by better players, and who become embittered by their whole experience, egged on by parents who start a cancerous whispering campaign behind the coach's back. Either way, baseball is not immune to the problems of basketball.

I enjoyed your brod perspective on this situation. Thanks.

quote:

Well-intentioned parents

No way no how.

Well intentioned parents mean trouble

I have to disagree with you coach. Parents may have good intentions, but poor judgment turns those good intentions into something quite different than the intended results...I think the writer had it correct.

Parents can be agents for change, both good or bad...it's the bad judgment, in my opinion, that gets them into trouble.

You certainly wouldn't discourage well inended parents, who have demonstrated good judgment previously, from stepping forward and helping out a program would you?

I'll probably take a fair amount of flak for this post, but here's an alternative view of the situation.

We read this story and say, "what a bunch of jerks!" and "these parents have lost control!" But do any of us see ourselves or someone we know...just a little bit here?

It seems to me that one key difference here is that the school and then the district and then (to a lesser degree) the school board said, "No! We won't fire this coach." In the end they compromised.

But how many of us know of a situation at our local HS or the HS down the road a little ways where parents rose up and got the HS volleyball, basketball or baseball coach fired? Maybe they got the AD to do it or the Principal to do it...but the fairly quick result was dismissal or "resignation." Was it always justified? Probably sometimes, but not always. Often, the principal or district just wants the problem off their books...easiest solution. Occasionally at the private school, the big donor gets his way. And sometimes, in the cases I know a little bit about, its a lot of the same stuff as here.

There were off-season teams, maybe coached by one of the dads, where the kids play a lot more but suddenly don't in HS (come on, we can always find a "travel" team where our son plays a lot...right?...if not, we form our own...right?). Sometimes its a coach who doesn't "win enough." Or a coach who doesn't "teach enough." Maybe a coach who is "too strict, too mean."

Same things I read here...but they got louder because the Principal said "no" and the district said "no" and the school board said "no, not all the way at least...but we'll give in a little," and the lead parent wouldn't give up but the coach stuck it out (rare...we wouldn't have ever heard about it if this coach would have done what I would have and said, "the he!! with you all!").

We're closer than we think (or would like to believe)...or a friend is closer than we think...at least thats what I think. It doesn't make us wrong, but we know someone who is closer to this than we think.

justbaseball:

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Was it always justified? Probably sometimes, but not always.

I agree with you completely. Sometimes, not often, the parents are correct.

It's really no different than in any other walk of life...doesn't matter what the job is, task is, or occupation is...you have your really good ones (definitely keepers), your good ones (definitely keepers), your average ones (they stay as well), your bad ones(definitely look for something better), and of course your really bad ones (definitely make a change).

The key, of course, is everyone coming to the table honestly and moving forward to meet the goals of the program...whatever they may be.

quote:

Parents can be agents for change, both good or bad..

when you are on the end of the bad you are leary of future attempts

quote:

Same things I read here...but they got louder because the Principal said "no" and the district said "no" and the school board said "no, not all the way at least...but we'll give in a little,"

The following is giving in a little?

Nibarger will not be allowed to choose her team. That will be done by a six-person "panel," which will include parent representatives and members of the community, as well as Nibarger and her assistant coaches.

And finally, Nibarger is required to have an "ombudsman" attend every practice to keep an eye on things. Nibarger calls the representative a babysitter. Janice Friesen, president of the Castro Valley school board, says the stipulations were actually meant to defuse the situation.

Let me say this as delicately as I can
The administration backed down big time. No guts.

That's why the baseball god's gave parent's LL.
To get all the Politic's, and back stabbing, must be the best, Most over powering Force on Earth, since Genghis Kahn.
So you can realize how Silly it is to want that much Control
over a Sporting event concerning are children.
"Parent's Beware"
At any sporting event's, Stay away from large crowd's of parent's. Nothing good ever come's of it.
Just another lost season of Parental Discontent.
You would be better off concentrating your effort's on doing what's right by your Child.
College camp's, Letter's, Visit's. Ect.
It does not matter what your Team's do.
It matter's what you Do.

What happen's when there Kid's go to College.
Talk about not having any control.
There head's are going to blow. LOL. EH

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Let me say this as delicately as I can
The administration backed down big time. No guts.

I agree Will...could've picked my words much better. It wasn't the main point I was trying to make.

I know that for many coaches it's difficult to imagine that the coach could be wrong.
I have some personal experiences that would countervail the impression.
High school football coach; Remarks to assistant coach "he can punt but he's got a black face." in regards to a player and friend of mine who happens to be black.
Another high scool football coach decks player for argueing with him (respectfully)
High school baseball coach sends runner from third on a long fly ball with bases loaded and no outs;
Ball caught; double play
Dresses down the kid after the game and blames him at the post game meeting.
The whole team overheard him tell the kid to go.
No apology.
Chewing tobacco, drinking (NOT warter)
Not a list for cannonizing.
Well intentioned parents? At some point someones got to speak.
Rollerman

Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
when you are on the end of the bad you are leary of future attempts

That makes perfect sense...I can understand a coach being hesitant to allow too much
interaction with parents if some of those parents at one time used their bad judgment and harmed the coach or the program.

This unfortunate situation happens in all walks of life also.

I've run into it in business...been burned by a customer and then I've been absolutely reluctant to deal with that type of individual ever again.

The not dealing with that type of customer ever again is not necessarily good or bad, but the getting burned in the first place was not good...no fun at all!

I understand your hesitancy coach.

And then they ASK " WHY CAN'T WE GET GOOD HS COACHES?"

duh !!!

Trhit

I have been out of it for 7 years.I still converse with coaches. the question is do I miss it. Yes and no however seeing and hearing what goes on the no wins.

Will:

That is sad to hear...yet I understand.

quote:

And then they ASK " WHY CAN'T WE GET GOOD HS COACHES?"

I feel parents expect the same level of expertise as they find with select programs and when those expectations are not met they go for the first available head...the coach.

Another thought is that if you did a survey of basketball coaching complaints by parents, I would bet that many of them originate from the third or forth person off the bench. Other sports would fall with the same substitutional pecking order.

Will

I think I have mentioned it before on this site but after my son graduated HS the AD offered me the position as Head Baseball Coach---I said we are friends lets not go there and we are still friends to this day--we will be locking horns every week--- I am happy doing my thing where I drive the bus---IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT YOU CAN GET OFF AT THE NEXT CORNER !!!!---it is that simple but it won't work in the HS scenario

Here is my 2 cents:

This is a reflection of one of the many things that has gone wrong in our country. Our youth can no longer be told what to do, when to do it, and that they are wrong. We actually expect coaches to more of a psychologist than a coach. We, as coaches, have to pay special attention to our kid's fragile psychological makeup, and to top that off, we have to be sure that "certian" players play. This provides a false sense of reality for the real world.

My son, a junior, recently left for another school because of this type of stuff. Several of the kids who play at his prvious school also play for a travel team I coach. At a recent game, as I was calling the pitches for my pitcher, the father of our catcher started telling his son not to call curves and changeups if I called them. He was yelling it loud so everyone could hear him - including our other players. Thankfully, his son did not listen to him. Afterward, we had a parent meeting to address this kind of stuff (we are having another one tomorrow night)and many of the parents indicated that because they pay for their son to play on this team they have a right to be involved with the decisions on the team.

As soon as I read this article I emailed it my son's current HS coach to encourage him to never give in to this kind of stuff. I may be in the minority, but I really don't care if the coach is wrong from time to time and acts like it is my son's fault. I want my son to learn to be tuff, and how deal with adversity. Heck, I am wrong from time to time, and don't want my parenting privledges to be stripped. Most coaches I know really do care about their kids. They are not perfect, and they will make mistakes. However, we have an epidemic on our hands with kids not being able to handle authority. Talk to just about any public school teacher about the authority they've been stripped of in the classroom. Most of it, sad to say, is due to "well meaning parents." If your kid cannot handle someone criticizing them, yelling at them, or telling them when they are wrong, then they are in for a rude awakening in the real world. We simply must teach our kids that they cannot run to mommy and daddy everytime for help. Of course, I would not want my kid to have to endure constant critique, but I doubt this is what this coach was doing.

quote:

I may be in the minority, but I really don't care if the coach is wrong from time to time and acts like it is my son's fault. I want my son to learn to be tuff, and how deal with adversity.

sherman - you are not in the minority imho.

I have always felt this way. The only way to learn how to be tough in life is to persevere when things are not going your way. Don't point fingers or try and lay the blame somewhere else, look in the mirror and do something about it. Sometimes learning to deal with someone who seems against you is a lesson in itself.

Look, there have been some posts in this thread saying there are some bad coaches out there and sometimes people need to do something about it. Ok... that does not seem at all to be the case here. This coach seems more than adequate to coach this team. Of course coaches make mistakes and so do all of us. We cannot legislate perfection however.

TR:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I am happy doing my thing where I drive the bus---IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT YOU CAN GET OFF AT THE NEXT CORNER !!!!

Finally! I just knew that you reminded me of someone...I've been wracking my brain for months now trying to figure it out...and voila!...it hits me like a bus...

You're Ralph Kramden.




The lovable Ralph of course!

Enough already!!!!

Jerry (PG Staff) said it best.

You're referring to the PUKING...right?

quote:

We, as coaches, have to pay special attention to our kid's fragile psychological makeup, and to top that off, we have to be sure that "certian" players play.

Maybe that is why some coaches just choose to do something else with their time.