Parents vs. Coach: Battle goes wild....

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Our youth can no longer be told what to do, when to do it, and that they are wrong

But the funny part is I feel the kids can handle the truth it's the parents who have issues. Back when I coached I always subscribed to the thought that "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas". My first team meeting I always told the players that this team is "family" and you can talk up your family to who ever will listen, but if you have a family problem you bring it up with the family. The kids loved that analogy as it was on of their first experiences with a little independence from mom/dad. On the other side I also had a parent mtg and let them in about what I told the kids and my reasoning. Then followed up that if they had an issue during the year they should schedule some time with me and not involve the kids in an adult "mis-understanding".

It worked like a charm and for the ten years I activily coached 3 sports I had no parental issues that lingered and only one that made me think . A cute single mom who knew my wife was working out of town came up to me after a game and asked what I was doing that weekend. Kind of taken back and my ego pumped to the max, I asked why. She then asked me in a sultry, pleading whisper, "Can you watch my kids so I can go out of town with my boyfriend"?

Sorry about the goofy story but I have always thought that it was just as important that coaches keep an open line of communication with parents as well as players. Today I feel that many of those coaches who have constant issues do not follow this line of thinking and may only be living their dream and missing the real reason for coaching.

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I feel parents expect the same level of expertise as they find with select programs and when those expectations are not met they go for the first available head...the coach.

High school coaches are not experts?

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High school coaches are not experts?

This is not a rip on HS coaches but in many cases district union rules, pay scale, and weird hours do not allow the best people to apply for the job

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Originally posted by Will:

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I feel parents expect the same level of expertise as they find with select programs and when those expectations are not met they go for the first available head...the coach.

High school coaches are not experts?

Will, we or at least I understand you don't think much of high school coaches. Please define what you think an expert is. What would I have to do to meet your qualify? Are you then also stating that summer coaches or at least these paid summer coaches are experts?

Coach,

Actually, I think "Will" has always been strongly on the side of the HS coaches in nearly every discussion.

CoachB- I think PG is correct in Wills coaching thoughts. What I think he was questioning was my statement.

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I feel parents expect the same level of expertise as they find with select programs

I never said either was an expert, I was stating that there may be a different level of expertise. I will stand by my comment that on a whole select coaches have a higher level of expertise. At the same time the ratio is skewed because there are many times more HS coaches than select coaches.

I stand corrected and apologize to Will, rz1 and pg. I haven't taken offense at the topic or the direction of the thread. I have been where this coach is. I also had a group of parents very upset with my coaching style ... (different sport than basebal) I have been attacked by a parent and the end result wasn't too good for that parent. I felt terrible for the boy. Dad bit off more than he could chew.

However, the basic tenant of my questioning remains. According to whom should I be judged an "expert" and by what criteria? Could you find a thousand people that know more baseball than I. I would be so lucky as to limit it to a thousand. Can you find parents currently that don't like my coaching style? I can think of one right now. (Just Learning, quit laughing as you read this!) Let me tell you based upon any of those criteria, I pale in comparison to many in the game. Can you find those that can get after it, make their kids want to get after it, create an atmosphere based upon fearlessness, competition, guts, pain, endurance, inspiration, perhaps but I can give them a run for their money in those regards. So again, what is an expert?

Coach, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I doubt many on this site would have a problem with your coaching style because we can tell by your passion for the game it would fit our kids desire to play. On the other hand some parents would probably take offense, their loss.

An expert, I guesss there are none because we all can find instances through our role as "armchair quarterback" we conclude that even the pros make many mistakes. Since baseball and all other sports are very "reactive" an expert in my my mind is one with knowledge but even more important has the ability to communicate that knowledge into reactive play. If that makes any sense.

Coach:

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Originally posted by CoachB25:
So again, what is an expert?

Someone who formerly was pert.

9 times out of 10 I will come down on the side of the coach. I know how parents can be both from a peer angle and from a coach angle. Its a big problem.

But the problem I have with this article is I suspect it doesn't tell us everything we should know. Maybe it does, but I've read plenty of newspaper articles about things I know a lot about and very often they aren't totally accurate.

Currenty at our local HS, there is a coach who is probably going to be fired later this year (not baseball and in no way related to any of my children). This coach did some things she shouldn't have done. No, not abuse. But things I would call somewhat unethical. Why is she going to be fired? Because the parents rose up and called her on it. They called her on what she did all the way to the school board (sound familiar?). She has punched back a little by characterizing the parents as a bunch of jerks.

If this coach ends up going to the newspaper, I pretty much know how it will come out. "I got fired because some angry parents didn't like me because I didn't play or in some cases cut their daughters." And if the author of the newspaper article is sympathetic and doesn't find a parent who will tell all (possibly likely since the issue is ethics)...I think we get something like this article.

No, I'm not saying this author blew the story...he generally writes good stories. But we just don't know...and so when we ALWAYS blame the parents, do we damage the parents who have a good point when they need to get something like this done? Do we handicap them?

Food for thought.

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But the problem I have with this article is I suspect it doesn't tell us everything we should know.

Are you suggesting there might be two sides to this story justbb

Look, the parents' attorney was quoted directly in this story. Here is the case made by the attorney:

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"This is to get away from all the 'He said, she said,' " Friesen says. "This is meant to be support for everyone.'' Attorney Andrew Sweet, who is speaking for the parents, said the program was out of control last year. "These kids were coming home from practices and leaving games crying," Sweet says.

Sweet admitted that Nibarger wasn't screaming at the players, playing favorites or subjecting them to physical abuse. It was more a matter of "communication" and "utter vindictiveness.'' That sounded pretty vague, so Sweet went back to the parents and came up with some specific allegations.

Sweet says Nibarger once threw the girls out of the gym when a practice was not going well. (The parents' group says it was 45 minutes early; Nibarger says it was "10 to 15.'') She didn't attend picture day. (Neither do other Castro Valley coaches.) She cut the playing time of anyone who complained about her coaching decisions. (She's proud of her record of playing 9 to 10 players a game.) Once, Sweet says, Nibarger was in a restaurant, saw the players and left without saying anything. (She says she wanted to respect the privacy of what appeared to be a players-only meeting.) So?

Where's the beef Mr. Sweet?

If that is the case they (the parents) are making, then they come out of this looking poorly at best. Even worse are the school officials. If you are suggesting the story misquoted the attorney (or left some of his arguments out), then I suspect we'll be hearing that side very soon.

BTW - we hear all these jokes about left coast politics and this school is ironically named Castro Valley.

And according to the BBC this school district remains very healthy and vibrant despite appearances.




"I'm feeling very, very...how do you say?...chipper"

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If that is the case they (the parents) are making, then they come out of this looking poorly at best. Even worse are the school officials.

Yeah, I can agree with that.

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If you are suggesting the story misquoted the attorney (or left some of his arguments out), then I suspect we'll be hearing that side very soon.

No, I'm not suggesting that. But the quoted text by you from the article is so weak, i.e. the parents' arguments are so weak, it just makes me wonder if there's something that hasn't been or cannot be said. If thats not the case, we have one very ineffective school board there, don't we? (Entirely possible...maybe even probable).

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BTW - we hear all these jokes about left coast politics and this school is ironically named Castro Valley.

Interesting - huh?

Hey, I'm really not trying to take sides...certainly not the side of the parents in this case as it was stated. I'm just pointing out that the parents aren't always wrong...just usually.

This happened in California. Why are you all surprised.

HEY!!! I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK!!!

AcademyDad,
Don't take it to personel. LOL
Welcome to my Group Therapy Session.

Now let me get this straight.
You have no more boy's at home.
And your wondering, Should I hire a Gardener?

EH

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Originally posted by no-e2:
This happened in California. Why are you all surprised.

Which someone once called the Granola Bar state - what isn't fruits and nuts is flakes...

OH YEA, Well there's Oat's and Barley in those Granola Bar's.

Wait until the girls go to play college sports, parents are going to be in SHOCK.

Can you just see it now, complaining to the AD? No better yet, headed straight to the school's president!

EH...

You're getting way too personal. You're not looking over my fence, are you?

Did we go to different high schools together?


Are you one of Rob's Brigade?


In case I haven't thanked all of you yet today. Thanks for participating in my sons' tuition.


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"If a statue in the park of a person on a horse has both front legs in the air, the person died in battle. If the horse has one front leg in the air the person died as a result of wounds received in battle. If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person died of natural causes."

tigerpaw

we had a local girl get a full boat to a d1 school for volleyball.they were in the gym from 130 to 5 everyday. she needed to take a class for her major that got out around 230.she asked the coach if she could come late to practice because of the class she needed.the coach said she didn't need the class ,she wasn't getting a full scholarship to go to school it was to play volleyball.the girl left after that year. coach wouldn't have made it in that high school.

You are always going to have parents that think the coach is'nt doing the job as he/she should.
AND sometimes there are going to be incidences where the coach steps over the line.
It's up to the administration to talk down the aggrevated parents and, if neccessary, discipline a coach who's not handling his position properly.
Rollerman

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You are always going to have parents that think the coach is'nt doing the job as he/she should.

And there lie's the problem.
You will have a new set every 3 to 4 year's.
You can't please everybody everytime.

Academy Dad, Yes we are neighbor's.
I live in the city to the south of you.
We have crossed path's many time's in the last couple of year's.
Now that are 06's are gone. We have to find a way to help and be helped by all the great people on the HSBBW.
If any of them would like to come over and do some yard work, That would be great. EH

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
tigerpaw

we had a local girl get a full boat to a d1 school for volleyball.they were in the gym from 130 to 5 everyday. she needed to take a class for her major that got out around 230.she asked the coach if she could come late to practice because of the class she needed.the coach said she didn't need the class ,she wasn't getting a full scholarship to go to school it was to play volleyball.the girl left after that year. coach wouldn't have made it in that high school.

This is not uncommon. All coaches expect organized practice to be attended by all. At most schools, you work your school schedule around practice, games. Exceptions may go to graduating students.

It's even tougher for an athlete on a full ride. They are paying YOU to get an education and in return you are supposed to be available, you could be at their mercy. That's just the way it is. Parents and students should be aware of this. At many D1 school's there is an athletic advisor to help with that task.

By the way, this is a very GOOD question to ask after you are awarded an opportunity. Expectatons.

EH,
If the fact that parents are going to use petty situations and judgement as criteria for getting involved, then the administration has to be the point where lines are drawn and facts are obtained...it's their job.
We can, I believe laugh at many of the reasons parents do get into it. We've probably seen a hundred examples of it.
Best thing to do is for the coach to head it off prior to the season and for ADs and administrators to hold their collective noses and deal with it.
I would be opposed to an arbitrary "coach is right" policy because sometimes they aren't.
Rollerman

EH...

You a SJStars Dad?

AcademyDAD

No sir, Son former Norcal.
Played for Golden Era.
LHP, OF, 1st base.
I am more than Happy to help pay for Both of your son's Education's.
Isn't it funny how the more you spread out into the baseball community, The smaller the world become's. EH

Hey EH,
What Norcal team did he play on?
Did you find the coaching at Norcal substantially better than at your son's high school? I did.
Rollerman

Rollerman, I understand that the coach is not alway's right.
But parent's rarely if at all help the matter.
As a Player/Parent Just do your time, Work on your game.
Enjoy the win's and losses. And helping your team be the best it can be.
Your never going to be fully happy until you
Let go of the control.
Of which you really don't have any?? EH

Son's HS coach was very good.
But with Norcal the Competition was second to none.
Played in 2003 15u.
Learned early on what it was going to take to get to the next level.
There's no comparision between most HS's and Select ball. People can compare, But the farther we go along in baseball the tougher the competition will get.
At each level you still feel like your just at the bottom of the pile. EH

EH,
Trust me, I've learned to go with the flow.
Most of my observations were from my own experience. In every case I did nothing to disperse information about those incidents. In one case maybe I should have.
I've never had any reason to complain about playing time or things of that nature...although I know alot of parents that did.
It's my personal philosophy to allow the performance on the field be the final arbitrator of playing time/ fair treatment discusions.
In college the coach is a demigod to be paid hommage to, not to be questioned for petty philosophical differences.
Rollerman

EH...

Where did your son (JD?) end up? Quincy?

How do you get EH? Extra hitter? Or Extra Hardheaded?

AcademyDAD

AD, It was for Extra Hitter.
But but the latter fit's better.

I could be E D

NO NOT THAT.

Extra Determined.

GEEZ.

JD's in Malibu.
Quincy was an option, Among other's.
It took a lot of patiance.
But I'm sure he's found the right fit.
The contact's alone will be worth it.

You have to be very Proud of your young Men.
Have you had contact with your 06.
Have they aload him up for air yet. EH

Have JD watch out for those great looking Women Volleyball players!

When we were talking to Malibu one of the players walked up to say hi to the coach and the kid froze mid-sentence.....very bad!

Hr04.
I would hope he would be studying.
And not have time for such coeducational activities.

Did I just say that. EH

EH - very strict school policy about that in the dorms, but there is a nice hill by the pool....

Rollerman

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It's my personal philosophy to allow the performance on the field be the final arbitrator of playing time/ fair treatment discussions.

The sooner the parent figure's out that you can only control a small part of your player's success.
Sit back and enjoy.

My feeling is if you Want or Must Coach it should be done, Early
on before 13yrs. old.
Then left to other's.
Step back, and allow your player to fail and succeed.
Take the good coach along with the bad.
It's a long road if you want it to be. JMO EH

EH...

Pepperdine or Cal Lutheran? Hope you got "some help" in either case. At Pepperdine, he'll be playing with Barry Enright who both of my sons played with (bb, s****r, swimming, et al). Barry was over at St.Mary's and our's at Lincoln. Errecart, who played with Karl, had a great Rookie Ball season in Helena. Enright should go high in the Draft this next year.

Some say that Karl could go as high as top 10 rounds this next year, but then comes the negotiations with Team Rumsfeld to see if they'll let him do the David Robinson thing. Karl had 9 HR's in 6 Fall Ball scrimmages. He's now 6'3", 220 and the latest measure in the tank was 9% body fat. The beauty of the Academies is there's just not much to spend your time on, except your grades, your body... and from a parent's perspective, you know where your kid is on any given Thursday night... no keggers in Pattie Canyon.

Kendall's in the fight of his life at Navy. Word has it he may have won the starting spot at SS as a Plebe (hope that doesn't jinx him). He has only been allowed off the Yard once since Parents Weekend in mid-August. He actually seems to be enjoying himself... even the Head Coach called wondering about that one.

The Battle of da B*** Brothers is February 23, when Air Force plays Navy at Team USA Park outside Memphis. The media is already playing this one up:

http://recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060723/SPORTS/607230316

See you out at the ol' Ballpark. Say hi to your better half for me. She always was one of my favorites...


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Many years ago in Scotland , a new game was invented. It was ruled "Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden"...and thus the word GOLF entered into the English language.

AD, Yes Much help.
He's a Wave.
And listed as UT.
Which is good.
Beautiful campus.
And not overly populated.
EH