Participation trophies make kids soft

Yeah, that was well sourced on the research front.

Look, I'm not a fan of extrinsic motivational strategies (I'm a MS teacher, so I have some familiarity with the actual science), but a "participation" trophy, at least as I've experienced them as both an athlete (in the 70s/80s) and as a parent (this century), is generally a tangible reminder of actual effort and accomplishment. They go away at the point where they don't function in that manner anyway, for the most part, and the kids who are going to keep playing the game quit caring about them (when the don't represent something real, like a championship) pretty early on.

I guess at the end of the day, I think it's a lot less about the trophies and lot more about coach/parental attitudes/expectations.

Do we give them participation trophies because they're soft, or are they soft because we give them participation trophies?

YES!

I guess the PT's are OK if someone sees one on a dresser and says, "I didn't realize you played _______________"

I've been back and forth on this many times in my 17 years teaching and 20 years coaching and 3 years as an AD.  What I've noticed is that there are great parents who have kids that get it, horrible parents who have kids that don't get it and the vast majority are somewhere in the middle to some extreme one way or the other.  Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel on HBO has a segment on this very topic this month that I thought was very good but it was slanted toward participation trophies are bad.  Overall, I think this is where good parents become good parents - they are at home teaching the work ethic and working with teachers / coaches to help instill that mindset.  When this happens then we get great kids who aren't brought down to be entitled.

One thing people just forget or don't get is that it doesn't matter how good of a teacher / coach I am - I can never outweigh the ability to mold and shape a kid more than a parent can.  It doesn't matter if the parent is good or bad because I'm not going to beat that.  Yeah we have warm and fuzzy stories where a teacher / coach was able to make that connection with a kid but that's not the rule no matter how much we want it to be.

Something the HBO segment that really made an impact with me was what a lady said who is against participation trophies.  I'm paraphrasing here but she said something along the fact of - "to show a kid you appreciate his / her participation you do it with a hug and love.  To show a kid that they were successful in his / her participation you give them a trophy."  That really hit home with me because it's so true.  Parents, teachers and coaches need to show we care about kids and that we appreciate them being out there because once a kid knows we care they will do what we say.  We can mold and shape them into a mentally strong young adult who can stand on their own two feet.

I have not seen the segment yet but this strikes me as one of those trumped up issues, like the "War on Fill-in-the-blank."

At my kids' little league we gave out $2 trophies to every player in our Peanuts division.

Did it make them soft?  Yes, it made them soft. They were six and seven years old. They are supposed to be soft.

All my trophies eventually turned into pellet gun targets. 

a 5 6 or 7 year old starting LL or his baseball path gets a trophy...ok fair enough. you get one, thanks for coming hope you sign up again next year...that is it. I don't think it makes a kid soft. if you get them every year - year after year it is just stupid.

Most kids see them for what they are and discount their value appropriately.

But for a couple kids they do represent accomplishment, and it's not all bad. 

I remember a 12 year old on a LL minors team I coached many years ago. He had no athletic ability. None. Weak, immobile, and timid, he could not bend, stretch, run, throw, or hit.  His parents were extreme sedentary types with no clue about anything to do with sports, fitness, or movement. Two or three years older than the other players, this boy was by far the worst player on the team. 

With the parent's consent, I obtained a waiver of the league rule requiring each player play a couple innings in the infield.  It just wasn't safe to put this boy in the way of a batted ball. The board was skeptical until one of them watched one of our practices. He quickly convinced the rest of the board.

This boy had never had a legitimate hit in his previous years in the league, and I made it my mission for him to get one that season.  I told him never to bunt and never to take any pitch he thought he could reach.  Regardless of the game situation, his job was to take three hacks every time he came up. Ignore everything I taught the rest of the team about pitch selection, count, and the strike zone. Don't even look for a sign. Just swing. 

He put a ball in play for the first time about a third of the way through the season. In the succeeding games, he had several medium-strength groundouts and reached on errors a couple times.  But that first hit eluded him until the next to last game of the season, when he rapped a clean ground ball single through the 5-6 hole. Unfortunately, he reverted to form and went oh-fer in the final game.

When we handed out the league-supplied participation trophies at the team party, it was clear most of the kids knew the score and were in no danger of receiving an unwarranted self-esteem boost from them.

My one-hit wonder hitting pupil, on the other hand, positively beamed as he shuffled up to receive his trophy and eagerly grasped for it with chubby hands coated with pizza grease..

There was no way any trophy could make this boy soft. He was already as soft as a boy could be while still claiming to be a vertebrate.

And there was no way the trophy instilled a false sense of ability.  He wasn't stupid. He knew was awful at sports. But the trophy had value to him. It might have been the first thing he ever worked for.

Maybe some day, the memory of it will help him motivate himself to become a little more active as an adult.

I run a recreational basketball league w @ 700 kids in it.  From 5-17, boys and girls - but probably 80% of the kids between 7 and 12.  Also with a challenger division.  Younger group gets trophies or medals across the board, older groups medals for first/second only. If  you play AAU, Middle or High School basketball, you are not allowed in the league.  It's a rec league.  For many of the younger kids, it's the only team sport they will ever play.  I've seen the joy and excitement when they walk out holding their trophy.

If you think that I have added to the softness of their generation, so be it.

If you guys think it's better, I can re-allocate the budget this upcoming season, skip the trophies and bring in some old crotchety guys to yell at them and call them wussies.

Our league did trophies.  It was no big deal.  What the kids really liked was the encased game ball with their particular achievement marked on it.  

Some good posts in this thread.  

My son, like most, has received tons of trophies for football, baseball, basketball etc from the time he was little.  The only ones that did not end up in the underwear drawer somewhere where the couple he earned for specific things he accomplished.  

Winning the MVP award for winning a state Babe Ruth tourney, being named to the All-State in high school and being the winning pitcher in the championship game of a tourney during the summer that meant something to him.  Those are on display.  The rest are....who knows?

I am fine with it for the young kids.  As touched on here it may be the first time they have received any sort of recognition for doing anything....thats cool.  Let them have a moment.  By the time they reach 12 or so, they know whats up anyway.  

I once had a dentist whom I didn't think of as being much of a sports fan.

In our town, the league I ran (1000+ kids) had banners all over town, "Hometown Youth Baseball - Everybody Plays!"

One day I'm sitting in the chair getting a cavity filled or something like that.  This dentist, kind of a nerdy guy, is carrying on a distracting conversation with me and it comes up that I'm the President of that league.

"Oh yeah - 'Everybody plays'!!"

"Yup, thats us."

"Well, you wanna know what I think?  I think thats a silly slogan.  Whats wrong with kids learning earlier rather than later that baseball may not be their thing?"

I dunno guys - I always played on teams that came in 2nd or lower through childhood.  I got one...ONE...trophy for one of those 2nd place finishes.  Somehow I survived it.

I'm an intensely competitive person.  Its helped me achieve a lot in my own professional career.  So is my wife (thank goodness!).  And my kids too.  Maybe that lack of trophies motivated me?  Or maybe it made no difference either way?  But somehow, I survived a childhood with ONE 2nd place trophy and a mother and father that told me the truth (lovingly) about my own performance at school and on the field.   My kids got the same.

As a 50+ year old, I'm pretty happy with all of that.

One year, I attended orientation night for new parents at a small private school run by the epitome of the classic "school marm," a no-nonsense lady who could stare down a charging rhino.  

One of the parents asked how the school promoted self esteem.

Miz Jackson peered over her glasses and replied, "Well, here's what we do about self esteem here.  We tell the kids to keep their noses in their books. And if they ever do something worth being proud of, we'll let them know."

Nobody had any more questions.

But when does the everybody get a trophy thing stop. I have no problem with it when the kid is little 6 7 years old but eventually they have to realize that is not how the real world works. 

Will, just my opinion, but the league isn't set up to teach 7 year olds how the world works.  Their parents can do that.  We are set up to rent them gyms, get them ref's, equalize teams, put jersey's on them and roll out a basketball.

In our league, the "everybody gets a trophy/medal" stops at eleven.

Originally Posted by Will:

But when does the everybody get a trophy thing stop. I have no problem with it when the kid is little 6 7 years old but eventually they have to realize that is not how the real world works. 

Unless I’m wrong, everyone on a HS team gets a trophy in the form of a letter, and there sure are a lot of them on jackets wandering around colleges. By your thinking, all of those letters and that great tradition should be abolished.

What I think is great, is that even though someone who needs a buck will write about how terrible participation trophies are and get it published in some world famous publication like “Men’s Journal”. Then someone wanting to show justification for his/her personal beliefs will use it to make people feel bad about themselves. I’m glad to see that more and more people have learned how much of a strawman argument it is and say so.

She wasn't related Sister Maria Daniels by any chance?  Toughest bird in the roost!  When she wanted an opinion from you - she'd tell you what it was.

I know well that league you speak of, justball.   I have to say many a fine ball player came out of that league.  So they were --and I think still are -- doing something right. 

Stats, you make a good point. Varsity letters are much like participation trophies to some extent. I get frustrated when non sports get varsity letters but then all of my kids play sports. That is atopic for another day and usually becomes REALLY heated on both sides

I run a basketball program too. (sounds like a lot of us are duel sports ). Both Rec and travel are within this league 1st-8th grade. 95% are 1st-6th. We have tryouts for our travel teams. Our rec program gives participation trophies thru 6th grade. Our feeling is for many of those kids a PT will mean a lot. The $1000 we spend as a league for the 500 $2 trophies are worth every penny (to me) for the 100-300 kids that it does really mean something. for our travel program- no trophies unless earned in a tournament or winning travel league.  To me, it depends on levels of competition.    

Do kids even do the letter jacket thing anymore?  I can count on one hand the number I have seen at my kid's school and still have enough fingers to hold a cup of coffee. 

not as prevalent as it was when I went to school in the ancient days of the 70;s and 80's but still lots of kids at my kids school where them. Class rings are going out of style too. It was a must have when I was a school kid, none of mine wanted one

Why shouldn't non-sports get letters?

^^^^This

Just my opinion. I think that you should have to earn a varsity letter. Tryout and participate a certain amount. In my kids school, there are non sporting groups, that if you want on, you are on. There is no try out, every one participates that wants to. Every one gets a varsity letter For those, I don't think there should be a varsity letter in that case

So I guess how I feel is not necessarily sports v non sports. For instance. If they try out for the debate team, there is truly a tryout and those that actually debate get a varsity letter but those that are on team but do not get to participate against others or are "cut" do not  get one. There are sports at my kids school where everyone that tryouts makes it- Track for example, but they have criteria of how to earn a letter. That is true of every sport that I know of at the school. Not so much with non sports.

I think getting a varsity letter should be like getting a championship trophy  - earned. Right now at the school I cheer for, it is more like a participation trophy for non sports clubs

Never heard of those. In our district, HS's give letters to Varsity athletes, and for academics (3.5 average, I think)  Nothing else.  But stats is right - you make the team, and get on the field, you  get a letter.

Originally Posted by JCG:

Never heard of those. In our district, HS's give letters to Varsity athletes, and for academics (3.5 average, I think)  Nothing else.  But stats is right - you make the team, and get on the field, you  get a letter.

It’s always been my understanding that a “letter” is something meant to show dedication to one’s school and make it easy to identify those students, not necessarily something that signified playing success.

I love that story!  I have coached several of my kids' teams, and I have had players with similar abilities as the ones you described.  Having the kids follow through and complete the season is something that should be rewarded.  I just don't see the problem with handing out a participation trophy for the Rec League Teams. 

At the end of each season, when the participation trophies are handed out, we would always talk for a moment about each individual player.  Several times a player's parents would come up to us with tears in their eyes and thanking us for the experience their son had.  Handing out a trophy could help to keep the fond memories of their experience.  I don't think it hurts at all.

Awesome post!  I believe you are doing the right thing.  You are providing a positive environment for kids that may need that self confidence.  Some of these kids don't have the most positive role models, athletically, socially, ethically, etc.  So giving them the opportunity to build some self confidence is great. 

Very well put!!

Unless I’m wrong, everyone on a HS team gets a trophy in the form of a letter, and there sure are a lot of them on jackets wandering around colleges. By your thinking, all of those letters and that great tradition should be abolished.

I love what you are doing!  I believe you are making a difference...

For the most part around here, they are out of style.  I asked my kid if he wanted one.  He did not hesitate in saying no.

I like the way our HS does it when it comes to athletic letters.  If you play your frosh year you are given you graduating year letters.  So my 2017 received '17 at the end of his frosh year.  You are only given them once, so he was given them after football season and did not get another set after basketball or baseball.  They are given a soph patch after their soph. year.  Again only give one and not for each sport.  After they make a varsity team and complete the year they are then given their varsity letter.  You don't receive your letter until you finish the season on the varsity team.

I do know the band kids get varsity letters but I don't think the club kids (ie debate team, etc) get them.

Not in our part of the country.

In football, you have to play in a certain number of quarters in varsity matches.

In cross country, you have to meet a time standard and be a "scorer" (one of the top five finishers for the school) in a certain number of meets.

In wrestling, you you have to earn a certain number of team points (my son's senior year, he wrestled up a weight class for part of the season to allow his backup--a senior who been on the team for four years without earning a letter--a chance to earn one before he graduated).

Other sports have similar requirements that go beyond just making the team.

Letters represent not just participation but actual varsity accomplishments. 

Joe, in our school, band is one of those sign up and you are in groups. Over 100 kids in or band. They are very good. but there is no tryouts and everyone participates. There are kids in the band who do not play an instrument, they help in other ways such as moving equipment. All get a letter.

I do know debate team, choir, drama club all get letters in our school. WE are the epitome of all are included school. I would guess if we have a "walk and chew gum" club they would letter as well

This is creeping into travel baseball and softball. 16 teams tournament, broke into A, B, C, D divisions for bracket play. Trophies saying first place AND second place for each division. Half the teams left with a plastic trophy.

That's pretty silly.    My 2017 played a lot of travel and some AAU hoops and had about a zillion cheap trophies, phitons, medals, etc. We recently moved him into a different room in our house and it was interesting to see how much of that stuff made it to the new room.  A couple of tournament MVP trophies, that's it. The only other stuff pre-high school he kept is the LL pins  that you get for winning All Star tournaments. He kept a few HR balls too, but they're on a shelf in his closet.

Maybe I am the only one but I used to hate hanging around for another 30 minutes late on a Sunday afternoon to get a trinket and go through the whole award ceremony.

All the wives loved it though.  I asked mine once why she got so excited.  She said she didn't know but got caught up with everyone else's excitement over it.  So maybe it is time to change this thread to how parents are ruining baseball for the kids.

Swampboy-great post, did something similar for a boy, finally hit the ball in the last regular season LL game, everyone on bench cheered and when he came off the field, all high fived him.

That said, I also peaked at a 2nd place trophy as a boy,

and 12 years old is old to get one for showing up,

sense of entitlement abounds:

see post on our state awarding 9 teams in each class as 'All-State' ?!?