PG and Gamechanger/ Diamondkast

Happened to my kid as well, they messed up 2 games. Credited hits to the player after him, frustrating.

It happened to my son at his last PG event.  I sent an email and it was fixed by the next morning.  Since the stats are now so prominent on their profiles I think its probably a good ideal to stay on top of it.

K9 - who did you send email to? Looked at PG site under contact and there are so many different folks listed!!!

Please PM me if thats better.

I sent it to: Staff@Perfectgame.org (I'm sure I got it from this site).

This thread might be useful... http://community.hsbaseballweb...ondkast-at-pg?page=1

All data on the profile is pulled from DiamondKast, they aren't even doing game changer anymore.  And yes, email and let them know because in the question of "Will it matter", the answer is "It couldn't hurt to have it correct".

Thanks everyone for your help! I have emailed PG and hope they can rectify the stats and plays on the Gamechanger. Caco3girl - while Diamondkast is being use at the large national venues, locally they are still using Gamechanger - (at least in our area!)

PG used Game Changer at the WWBA Northeast Qualifier in New Jersey last weekend.

baseball mom2020 posted:

Thanks everyone for your help! I have emailed PG and hope they can rectify the stats and plays on the Gamechanger. Caco3girl - while Diamondkast is being use at the large national venues, locally they are still using Gamechanger - (at least in our area!)

Odd, not used at Lakepoint at all.

Diamondkast is a struggle for some of the PG personnel. They are used to Game Changer and aren't that familiar with the new application.  The data integrity will get better over time.... I spent a game in Fort Myers this summer assisting the game manager as I kept our teams score book. It was a good experience as he was a JC coach down to work the festival the next week. Had some good conversation and by the end of the game, he was more proficient with the app........ They have a tough job keeping it all straight. Teams need to help by doing a better job communicating defensive changes and substitutions. The data output is only as accurate as what is put in.    

Unfortunately, I've bought the annual Diamondkast subscription and we played an entire game where NONE of the velos were inputted.  Supposedly, it was because the PG Scout had a gun but didn't have a stand to put it on (I had asked the scout and that's what he personally told me---not second hand).  Not sure how that happens (or why he couldn't hand hold it).  Also seen a few others games where MPH was selectively inputted for pitchers (one of my HS pitchers, who throws mid-80s was given a 74mph as a high velo because the scout put in only a couple of pitches, likely curveballs).  If you're gonna charge for it, it seems that these things shouldn't happen.  

Not having any pitcher velos for an entire game is really kinda unfair to the pitchers who are looking to be recruited or improve their PG rankings (never showed up in daily leaders, PG bios, Diamondkast, etc.).  

I hope this all gets worked out, because I'm a big supporter of PG generally.  

SGNielsen posted: …Teams need to help by doing a better job communicating defensive changes and substitutions. The data output is only as accurate as what is put in.    

 Couldn’t be any more true, but getting the paradigm of poorly communicating defensive changes and substitutions to change is next to impossible. For whatever reason, precise tracking of offensive things is the highest priority. In that is of course hitting metrics and base running. On the defensive side, pitching metrics are the main import by far and above. After that, defensive things come last, but there’s a reason.

 Because listing field positions on the lineup card is only a courtesy, and there’s no penalty for having a player in a fielding position incorrectly, there’s no worries about where anyone plays.

OBR 4.03 Exchange of Lineup Cards

(c) As a courtesy, each lineup card presented to the umpire-inchief should list the fielding positions to be played by each player in the batting order. If a designated hitter is to be used, the lineup card shall designate which hitter is to be the designated hitter. See Rule 5.11(a) (Rule 6.10(b)). As a courtesy, potential substitute players should also be listed, but the failure to list a potential substitute player shall not make such potential substitute player ineligible to enter the game.

My son pitched in the Underclassman National Championship this summer, 2nd hitter of the game hit a shot back at him, he snagged it, then threw it 10 feet over the 1st baseman's head.  The AB was scored as a double, when the same batter tagged up to 3rd on a fly ball "reached on error" appeared in the play log, but the double/hit remained.  It didn't bother me, because my son isn't a regular pitcher, but made me start taking a closer look at the scoring now that it's plastered on his PG profile.    

Lately it seems any ball put in play is a hit, and then a couple pitches later [reached by error] appears in the play log.  Most PG games end with 20+ hits and 0 earned runs, and no errors assigned.

I've seen sac bunts, consistently scored as ground outs.  Many times on passed balls/wild pitchers base runners "steal home".

I think PG needs dedicated scorers, these guys seem to have too much on their plate in game, and once it starts to spiral, it snowballs quickly.   

My son is still young but has played at Lakepint sever al times.  He pitched twice and it does not show up taht he was porching in releif of another pitcher.  He pitched another time and he was charged with 7 hits.  I think several of those were hits based off errors.  But like I said he is still young and I don't think it is that important to make it right.  Just a couple of things I have seen over the last month or so.  I hope the scoring gets better for when it does matter for him - if it ever does.

teddy9,

 I know nothing about how well or how poorly anyone else keeps score, but I can say this. Unless the scorer has some help, I don’t care who it is, they’re gonna make mistakes during the course of a game. It’s very seldom when I don’t need to redo an at bat, change the way a pitch was marked, or something else, and there’s no guarantee I catch every mistake and get it corrected.

 I have no idea whether or not PG’s scorers are good bad or indifferent, but I suspect PGStaff will soon at least take a look to see if what you’re saying is true, and if it is, if it’s a local anomaly or something endemic.

They are usually college baseball players that are scoring the game.  From what I have heard, and experienced, they don't assign errors.   I can only imagine some wackadoodle parent running up to a score keeper (who is sitting very obviously behind home plate with a tablet) and screaming at them that it was the other guys fault and how dare you charge an error to MY son, you will wreck his whole college career!!!

Of course at that point I'd love for the scorer to tell the guy "he's a senior throwing 75, he doesn't have a college career", but all the score keepers I have seen have been very polite.  Sometimes bored, but very polite, so I don't see it happening, but it would be nice!

Just got done with a game in the national qualifier.  Again the pg scout didn’t keep DiamondKast.  He said his phone wasn’t charged.  Not sure why they have this or why I’m paying for it!

CaCO3Girl posted: They are usually college baseball players that are scoring the game. …

 LOL! In all honesty, the worst people I can think of to use as a scorekeeper are players! Watch just about any ML game where an ex-player is a commentator and you’ll likely hear something proving that while they know how to play the game, they don’t know the rules governing it very well.

CaCO3Girl posted:  "I can only imagine some wackadoodle parent running up to a score keeper (who is sitting very obviously behind home plate with a tablet) and screaming at them that it was the other guys fault and how dare you charge an error to MY son"........

Lol, I had this happen on my kids team a season ago when I was keeping GC. I stopped broadcasting the game and told everyone the wifi was bad and I had no data plan.

SGNielsen posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:  "I can only imagine some wackadoodle parent running up to a score keeper (who is sitting very obviously behind home plate with a tablet) and screaming at them that it was the other guys fault and how dare you charge an error to MY son"........

Lol, I had this happen on my kids team a season ago when I was keeping GC. I stopped broadcasting the game and told everyone the wifi was bad and I had no data plan.

 

How about when DK shows the wrong team batting, shows each player playing for the opposing team, shows the pitcher was pitching to himself as a batter, shows a run scoring on two Ks and a walk in one inning, shows the losing team scoring more runs than the winning team... all this happened this weekend at the Cal World Series.  The stats are so twisted there's no possible way to untangle them.  Fortunately it was only one game and the other games were fine.  Still, they should be able to do better than this, if for no other reason than the teams paid $1500 to be there.

careful Smitty you are taking on a sacred cow here and that seldom ends well!

old_school posted:

careful Smitty you are taking on a sacred cow here and that seldom ends well!

Sorry, but PG events are not well run on the West coast.  Not even close to what they do at Lake Point.  Score keeping is only one of the shortcomings.  I'd really like them to put more emphasis on this region and truly do it right.

Just had a first...  PG Scout doing DiamondKast this weekend appeared to intentionally put in wrong velos (probably just to satisfy that there was a velo associated with a pitch, when he wasn't paying attention).  The data inputted was provably wrong by looking at Trackman, since the game was at LakePoint.  The velos in DiamondKast were not even close--the scout just put in the same fastball velo for every pitch, when the pitches were over 10mph higher than the velo inputted.  PG is going back to fix it, after it was pointed out, but I think this shows the quality issues that occur.  Always double check things. 

K9 posted:

It happened to my son at his last PG event.  I sent an email and it was fixed by the next morning.  Since the stats are now so prominent on their profiles I think its probably a good ideal to stay on top of it.

 

So I did send an email, and got a reply that my son had made the tournament team but they did not change the stats - so the kid that bats behind my son and actually struck out still has my sons hit and 2 RBI's credited to him.

Kudos to PG, I sent an email and the stats are already fixed from the game this weekend.

Had a friend whose son played in that event, the scoring was wrong all weekend. On top of that, at least one team didn't have any pitching for one of their consolation games and it ended up two pitchers from his son's team threw for the opponent and they played by a showcase rule system (no more than 6 batters per inning). That's not a game! That is pathetic.

MCLoven, before you go off accusing, why didn't you THINK about calling/ emailing PG to explain sensibly what your observation was? I'm sure if an error was made, they'll make the necessary correction. 

Wow passoniate topic. My concerns:

1) pay for the service 

2) results are visible on PG profiles 

For these reasons PG has to do better.  This weekend will be my son’s 18th PG event in 2 years (fall/summer 16y and now Fall 17u). Overall great events, mainly limited to the marquee venues.   The satellite fields, at times are a joke and other than the main fields, good luck seeing a scoreboard turned on. BUTTTTTT, we will continue to participate because the level of competition is unmatched.  Not too painful to swallow poor fields and game management because we are somewhat local to Lakepoint.  It does burn a little when we travel 8-9 hours for the events and play at something resembling a marching band practice field.  His week we are off to Ft Myers and all 3 pool games are undesirable fields, but if we take care of business we’ll be at Jet Blue for a game or two

Back to stats, Im not sure allowing parents to call up and request a stat change is the answer either.  They’ve got to get it right, or take them off the site.  Recruiters and scouts don’t care about stats.  

teddy9 posted:

Wow passoniate topic. My concerns:

1) pay for the service 

2) results are visible on PG profiles 

For these reasons PG has to do better.  This weekend will be my son’s 18th PG event in 2 years (fall/summer 16y and now Fall 17u). Overall great events, mainly limited to the marquee venues.   The satellite fields, at times are a joke and other than the main fields, good luck seeing a scoreboard turned on. BUTTTTTT, we will continue to participate because the level of competition is unmatched.  Not too painful to swallow poor fields and game management because we are somewhat local to Lakepoint.  It does burn a little when we travel 8-9 hours for the events and play at something resembling a marching band practice field.  His week we are off to Ft Myers and all 3 pool games are undesirable fields, but if we take care of business we’ll be at Jet Blue for a game or two

Back to stats, Im not sure allowing parents to call up and request a stat change is the answer either.  They’ve got to get it right, or take them off the site.  Recruiters and scouts don’t care about stats.  

I can address one item out of personal knowledge regarding the satellite fields.  For the satellite fields, PG does "employ" the gate person who sells tickets/wristbands, programs and PG merchandise.  They also "employ" the scorekeeper and umpires.  They rent the fields from the various High Schools (booster clubs) and pay a fixed fee per game.  In return, the school provides all field maintenance (i.e., turning the field between games, etc.).  Having been the treasurer for one of he HS's near Lakepoint, we would always try and get some of our HS players to work the fields and concession.  As you can imagine, most of them play on teams that are in the PG tournaments, so there is a frequent shortage of available labor.  Sometimes we have to pay graduated players or others to work concession or field.  When you look at available bodies, minimizing paying bodies, etc., having someone to run the scoreboard is a luxury that most schools simply aren't able to cover.

I can also say, without hesitation, if you played on our HS field, it would have been one of the nicer fields on which you could possibly play.  You are correct, because just a couple of miles away are some fields that look like bombing exercises were run on them.

teddy9 posted:

Recruiters and scouts don’t care about stats.  

Unless you're a pitcher...

FFXfireman posted:

teddy9 posted:

Recruiters and scouts don’t care about stats.  

Unless you're a pitcher...

Assuming that the PG folks are pretty smart and business savvy (which I think they are), they've determined that stats are important enough to go to the trouble of creating DK, creating a stats database, and selling the data to their recruiters and scout client base... yeah I'll go with that.

We have been scoring games for ever using GameChanger and another app before that.  We have always had trouble finding excellent scorekeepers.  Some of the complaints above are true and if someone knows about mistakes they should contact us.  We will be putting a high priority on scorekeeping or we won't be placing stats on the player profiles.  Never had these problems until we started doing that this year.

While I'm sure some of the complaints above are legitimate, please disregard agendas like SEC HOPEFUL.  That post is complete hog wash.  The agenda is quite obvious if you go back and read every past post by SEC HOPEFUL.  Isn't there anything else but bashing PG to discuss on this site?  For some reason there are a few posters that seem to be here just for that one reason.  Several years ago the same thing happened here regarding rankings.  After much investigation it was discovered that it was some competitors disguised as parents...  Guess those IP addresses can be tracked at times.  Thanks Julie

I have no problem reading legitimate complaints.  We do make mistakes at times.  I actually like to hear what people have to say, especially players and parents, though it would be more beneficial if we were emailed.  It is hard to respond to complaints on a messageboard when we have no idea what game or what exactly happened. We do know it's not "every" game.  We do know that when someone claims the scorekeeper told them his phone isn't working that something doesn't add up.  We don't use cell phones to score games. 

We try to listen and use it to keep improving.  But some of the things I read are so ridiculous it gets hard to deal with.  You don't last for 23 years by doing everything wrong. We recognize that we do have a problem with scorekeeping, and we plan to fix that problem.  It isn't easy when it sometimes requires 100 or more scorekeepers a day spread out throughout the country.  The sad part is the vast majority of games are scored perfectly, but that's not good enough.  In the meantime, if you are sure there is a "legitimate" mistake contact staff@perfectgame.org.  In most cases we have ways to check the results.

So, if there is a person on here who has a problem with perfectgame and you disagree with what people are posting you are using the website to track down IP addresses to discredit the poster? That is pretty sad. Everything I have posted is true. Would you like me to have others who have knowledge of these events to come on here and share their experiences, or would they be discounted as "fake news?"  Unbelievable!

If a majority of posts on here about DiamondKast are negative, which seems to be the case, then perhaps there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Instead, you are projecting the problem on someone else. I never came on here and attacked you personally, but you sure have carte blanch to come on here to attack others personally when they have complaints about Perfect Game. You seem to be using this website to defame people, so I have been critical of perfectgame and DiamondKast in this thread. Big deal, so have others. I am absolutely amazed at how this website seems to be at your beck and call. For God sakes, don't be critical of a company that puts a public profile of players out there and can't seem to get critical information about the players right! Give me a break! This website needs to be re-named "High school baseball web according to Perfect Game."

what is next? Am I going to be blocked for talking poorly of Perfect Game? Amazing! "Guess those IP addresses can be tracked at time" is that some kind of threat? 

PGStaff, I can tell you the exact games these things occurred this year.  I will DM them to you.  

I don't like you saying they "don't add up" because what I said is 100% true (maybe the "scout" mumbled, but the game wasn't scored because whatever he was scoring on wasn't charged, and he wrote the game down in a notebook).  I can also show you where there are 2 entire games that don't have any velos, as well as intentionally wrong velos that ended up being fixed by someone going through Trackman after it was pointed out after the game by a parent that totally incorrect velos were put in (not a mistake--these were made up velos).  Anyway, you guys do a great job for players generally, but these are 100% legit, no agenda complaints.  

It's very frustrating to have these things happen, that's the reason I'm complaining publicly.  Also to warn other parents to double and triple check the info that is put in PG.  Players rely on PG for recruiting and to be ranked properly.  Or they have friends that make fun of them for being on the daily leaders with a crappy velo.  Or coaches that wonder if they're hurt, because they're suddenly throwing in the 70s.  Or players who are getting credited with too high a velo and drawing interest, when they really didn't throw that hard but got credited with the previous pitcher's velo.

Not having this information or putting in wrong info (esp velo)  messes up rankings and recruiting because PG is the gold standard.  Plus, if we're paying for the service, we should be getting it (not games scored after the fact, no velos, or intentionally wrong velos put in).  

For a person who is scoring a game to TOTALLY MAKE UP VELOs for several pitchers and put them in the PG system is not acceptable in any way.  And, it 100% happened.  

Again, saying this publicly (vs a "behind the scenes" email) is the only way parents and players can be warned to check the info out and to make sure accurate info is in there.  Otherwise they will just assume PG is infallible and they shouldn't check or nothing could be done about it if they did check.  

I've had MANY players and parents tell me that they assumed it couldn't be changed or that the would just live with it (well especially if they were credited with velos that were a few mph over what they normally throw).   Plus, telling parents what they should look for is useful.  No one would suspect that a scout would put in velos that had no semblance to the actual pitches thrown.  The only reason this was caught is the game was at Lakepoint and the velocity was on the scoreboard.  What if its at another field with just a stalker?  Parents should be cognizant of what is actually going on in the game, and perhaps sneak a peak at the radar gun or ask the scout about velos being thrown or make sure the scorer has the correct players in the game--and double-check that it is all reflected correctly.  

PG has helped many kids live their dreams.  It's a great organization.  You are fantastic for answering questions on the message board and for having what I consider the right view about baseball.   You care.  But, these public complaints serve a valuable service. We WANT PG to be better, as I'm sure you do too...because that ultimately serves baseball and the kids better.  This is all meant as constructive criticism.  

I think PG is great.  But it can be better...and some of these issues really just shouldn't happen because too much is on the line for kids who are busting their butts to get a scholarship or get drafted.  

DM Sent, with specific games.  All are 100% legit.

Holy crap, you people need to find a life.  PG Staff is Jerry Ford the founder of PG but he doesn't currently run PG.  If you have a glitch with PG or how a PG game was scored or how PG in general operates then email the actual Perfect Game people at staff@perfectgame.org

PGStaff comes on this website to give advice and I am so fricken tired of having to see him defend himself. 

SEC Hopeful, you have posted on the following threads:

-PG Jr National selections WTH? (You bashed PG)

-Anyone get AC Games Tryout Invites Yet (Your advice was not helpful)

-PG Grade/Top List Chances? (You bashed PG)

-Corrupt Coaches Arrested (You bashed PG and accused them of bribing a HS student to promote them)

-PG and Gamechanger-Diamondkast (this thread, where you are bashing PG)

THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE POSTED ON!!!!!

You bio says you live in the southeast and you are "Another mom supporting her son!"...*cough*  I CALL BULL!

I agree with PG Staff, there is obviously an agenda and I hope they delete your account, and not because you have a negative opinion about PG, but because you aren't posting helpful advice to this group you appear to just be here to bash an important organization to this group, and it's founder.  If you really did have an SEC hopeful I sincerely doubt you would be openly mocking the founder of PG, asking for helpful tips, yes, openly mocking I don't think so.  I think even the most argumentative people on this site were nice to Jerry Ford out of respect for what he helped build.  You are obviously not interested in learning, you are only here to mock and to rile others up. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out! "

SEC Hopeful posted:

So, if there is a person on here who has a problem with perfectgame and you disagree with what people are posting you are using the website to track down IP addresses to discredit the poster? That is pretty sad. Everything I have posted is true. Would you like me to have others who have knowledge of these events to come on here and share their experiences, or would they be discounted as "fake news?"  Unbelievable!

If a majority of posts on here about DiamondKast are negative, which seems to be the case, then perhaps there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Instead, you are projecting the problem on someone else. I never came on here and attacked you personally, but you sure have carte blanch to come on here to attack others personally when they have complaints about Perfect Game. You seem to be using this website to defame people, so I have been critical of perfectgame and DiamondKast in this thread. Big deal, so have others. I am absolutely amazed at how this website seems to be at your beck and call. For God sakes, don't be critical of a company that puts a public profile of players out there and can't seem to get critical information about the players right! Give me a break! This website needs to be re-named "High school baseball web according to Perfect Game."

what is next? Am I going to be blocked for talking poorly of Perfect Game? Amazing! "Guess those IP addresses can be tracked at time" is that some kind of threat? 

SEC Hopeful, 

I don't want to call you out publicly. Please read and heed the PM I sent you.

Our fields at Kennesaw Mountain got beat up in the summer but i think was staffed appropriately and the scoreboard was on ( i hope) for all games. Our kids got paid to do their jobs while there. That PG money was nice for the program and the kids in the summer. Another cool thing about playing NBS baseball back then was we always played our remote games there and didn't have to travel to other fields with lacking conditions. 

I think it's fine for folks to complain on here, just don't get too personal and no attacks. It's the internet, lots of tough guys around. People will be blocked and banned if they aren't playing nice.

Oh yeah, i saw my son hit 95 at Lakepoint in a HS tourney (i think) and they only put in 94 for the event. I didn't email anyone. Had they, i think he would have had the highest velo there that week. I don't believe that would have mattered at all even in his Percentile ranking for velo.

That's a large bucket of water being carried CaCo.....don't sprain your arm. 

The hardest part about managing is managing your people, some folks care more about their jobs than others and the quality of work reflects that. I hope PG is working on improving the scoring, after all you cannot pitch and sell the benefits of data if you cannot enter the data correctly. 

Swampboy posted:

SEC Hopeful posted:

So, if there is a person on here who has a problem with perfectgame and you disagree with what people are posting you are using the website to track down IP addresses to discredit the poster? That is pretty sad. Everything I have posted is true. Would you like me to have others who have knowledge of these events to come on here and share their experiences, or would they be discounted as "fake news?"  Unbelievable!

If a majority of posts on here about DiamondKast are negative, which seems to be the case, then perhaps there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Instead, you are projecting the problem on someone else. I never came on here and attacked you personally, but you sure have carte blanch to come on here to attack others personally when they have complaints about Perfect Game. You seem to be using this website to defame people, so I have been critical of perfectgame and DiamondKast in this thread. Big deal, so have others. I am absolutely amazed at how this website seems to be at your beck and call. For God sakes, don't be critical of a company that puts a public profile of players out there and can't seem to get critical information about the players right! Give me a break! This website needs to be re-named "High school baseball web according to Perfect Game."

what is next? Am I going to be blocked for talking poorly of Perfect Game? Amazing! "Guess those IP addresses can be tracked at time" is that some kind of threat? 

SEC Hopeful, 

I don't want to call you out publicly. Please read and heed the PM I sent you.

Seriously?  SEC Hopeful is not a troll just here to bash PG?  I don't see them really posting on anything other than to bash Perfect Game & PGStaff and drop little nuggets of doom and gloom.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Our fields at Kennesaw Mountain got beat up in the summer but i think was staffed appropriately and the scoreboard was on ( i hope) for all games. Our kids got paid to do their jobs while there. That PG money was nice for the program and the kids in the summer. Another cool thing about playing NBS baseball back then was we always played our remote games there and didn't have to travel to other fields with lacking conditions. 

I think it's fine for folks to complain on here, just don't get too personal and no attacks. It's the internet, lots of tough guys around. People will be blocked and banned if they aren't playing nice.

Oh yeah, i saw my son hit 95 at Lakepoint in a HS tourney (i think) and they only put in 94 for the event. I didn't email anyone. Had they, i think he would have had the highest velo there that week. I don't believe that would have mattered at all even in his Percentile ranking for velo.

That's a large bucket of water being carried CaCo.....don't sprain your arm. 

The hardest part about managing is managing your people, some folks care more about their jobs than others and the quality of work reflects that. I hope PG is working on improving the scoring, after all you cannot pitch and sell the benefits of data if you cannot enter the data correctly. 

if only I knew how to add the clapping hands emoji here. this is well said and fair.