quote:
Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Something about "organic" batter blaster in a can seems odd......


I didn't see that until you mentioned it...it seems kinda gross when you dwell on it
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    "I'm telling ya GW, you gotta get yourself a can of the stuff and sit back and let all happen..."


We've been hearing how great this stuff is so a buddy and I set out Halloween night to get some. We went right to the source. They didn't want to hand any over so we tried to coax some from 'em!



And about those two holes in the ceiling? I swear there were clay pigeons flying around, but it turns out they were merely cup saucers.




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Last edited by gotwood4sale
Well I cut my oldest son when he was a Jr in HS. He wasnt good enough to make the varsity. I had to cut some other guys that were better than him. I was told "No one is going to think bad of you if you keep Jake on the team he is your son." I would have. Those other kids were someones son too.

It is your job as the coach to put the best players on the field that give your team the best chance to win that game that day. It is your job to keep the kids that deserve to be on the team. If your afraid to be the coach then find something else to do. You can not preach to your players the importance of earning what they get and at the same time give something to those that have not earned it.

I could careless what the people in the stands think. I could careless if they agree with the line up or not. I know who has earned it and I know who gives us the best chance to win. Frankly I could careless if they agree or not. My players know who the best options are. They want to win. They deserve to be given the best chance to win. Players work for years for the opportunity to play and they earn it. I am not going to give something to someone and watch those that have earned it sit behind them.

By the way my oldest son worked his butt off that off season and made the team his sr year as a dh. He got about 25 abs and was a great team mate. He earned it. Weaker players dont get better by being given anything. They get better by understanding what its going to take to get better and then going out and doing that. Stronger players dont deserve to sit because they have worked their butts off to be better so someone who has not worked to be good enough can play. If a kid busts his butt and is doing everything he can to get better you look for opportunities to reward that hard work. But they will earn it. Not their parents.

And by the way if a Freshman gives our team the best chance to win and a Sr is his competition the Sr sits. If you want to make sure you play then make sure your the best option. And just because your the best option today dont assume you will be tomorrow.

I have not had a problem with a single parent in several years. The players know the deal because I tell them and the veteran players tell them. The parents know the deal and if they dont like it they know I dont care. I have a great relationship with my parents. They want to win too. And they want their kids to earn what they get. The ones that feel otherwise choose to play somewhere else. And thats a good thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
I know who has earned it and I know who gives us the best chance to win.


What if these are two different players; one does the 'work', the other is more talented. Would you punish the whole team, as far as 'giving them the best chance to to win'? Play the hard worker and sit the kid who doesn't buy in to the whole program, but is obviously the better player?

I'm asking, because you're a coach. Son's football team had this situation with two RBs. Of course, a dad got involved...
We've obviously got some great coaches on this site. The very fact that you are posting on a site that helps parents and kids make the most of their high school years makes it pretty clear where you stand wrt fairness. Not every team has coaches with such integrity. Politics do happen unfortunately and the kids are the ones that suffer the most. For anyone caught in this situation, find avenues for your son to get the experience and confidence outside of his HS team and before long your HS coach will have no choice but to put him in. Because you can't argue with winning. If son doesn't improve with this extra experience, then you'll have a better idea what the HS coach was working with. Just don't put all your eggs in the HS basket - that can be fatal to son's baseball career.
Reading Coach May's post made me think. I've posted this before, maybe more than once...

I was talked into coaching the Legion team many years ago. We had tryouts and had to get to an 18 man roster.

My youngest son was one of those trying out. He was a sophomore in High School at that time. I cut him! He understood! He was 16 years old at the time and not one of the top 18 players trying out.IMO

There's more.... At age 22 he was playing in front of 50,000 fans in the Major Leagues.

Bad coaching? Good coaching? Politics?

Wonder if it hadn't been my own son if someone would have thought politics were involved?

Anyway, politics exist in most everything. Coaches sometimes like one kid more than another for many different reasons. I think it is best to be one of those they like a lot. Coaches tend to like all kids who work hard and have a good attitude. They also tend to favor (when coming to playing time) those who are the most talented.

Then there are a few who just don't do the right thing. Coaches are just like players and umpires... some are good, some are bad, they are not all the same. The sooner one realizes that, the better prepared one will be.
Unless I missed it over three pages, there's one other thing that happens. Coaches sometimes make mistakes. Sometimes they misperceive a player's potential to the detriment of another player. It's not politics. It's a mistake. If it's the player's one year to start it stinks. If it's early in his high school career he'll probably overcome it. The key for the player is get to work instead of sulking.
Coach May’s post made me think about something our HS coach just told all of the parents this week at the “all parents meeting”. He said that he had the pleasure to teach and develop kids as baseball players, and for that he was grateful. He also had the pain of telling kids they would no longer be able to play HS baseball. He pointed out that of the current senior class there were 4 players still on the team. That class started with 20 freshmen. They had about the same number of Sr’s last year. So for the last two senior classes he has had to tell 32 kids "thanks for coming out, but you are done." Politics? No. Some very unpleasant discussions? Yes.
So many great posts addressing this age old question could make for golden thread potential. Dog, I hope you have read these folks thoughts. They "get it". there might be politics afoot, but it usually only surfaces around the bottom of the roster, if at all. It is mostly a figment of those parents imagination, anyway.

As others have said, the kids know who needs to be on the field, and they usually are.

No worries. Enjoy the experience and stay posi+ive.
Last edited by Dad04
Vicarious Dad thats a fair and good question. And the answer for me is very simple. If you want to build a program you have to get the players to understand there is a certain standard that must be lived up to. In the classroom , on the field and off the field. The type of kids you have in your program is just as important if not more important than the type of talent you have in your program. I have always believed that helping to mold young boys into young men is part of building a good hs baseball program. And I also believe that when you hold these youngsters to a high standard they will step up. I also believe that when you dont they wont. You are doing the kid wrong when you dont challenge them to be the very best they can be. And in the end you hurt your program.

There are programs that are only competitive when a good crop of talent cycles through their program. And even then they many times underachieve. The players rarely get better over their four years in hs. And then there are programs that are always competitive and many times overachieve even when their talent level has dropped off. Their players always seem to get better year after year.

Building a program and setting standards for your team , program and players is all part of the process. You may have a better chance to win that game if you play that kid but what message are you sending to the younger players coming into the program or the ones already there?

Every player in our program will work hard , will be a good team mate , will hold themselves accountable or they will not play regardless of their talent level. They will not play because they will not be on the team. Hustle is something I never tell a player to do. If I have to tell them to hustle I have made a huge mistake in not cutting them. Effort , desire , attitude - takes absolutely no talent to accomplish.

Jerry is spot on with his post. Coaches like the players that work hard and have a great attitude. And they tend to favor those that are the most talented. So when you hold all of your players to the same standard it all shakes out. Do coaches have favorites? Of course they do. Every kid should strive to be one of those kids.

I have never played a kid that didnt work hard. Because if they dont work hard they are not on the team.
In dealing with politics I believe that 95% of the time it comes down to perspective. It really isn't there but some people believe it happens because they lack the realism and character to truly understand the situation. I'm not naieve enough to say that there aren't coaches out there who will give the booster club president's a favored spot on the team / lineup. It happens and will continue to happen. But I truly think politics is generally coming from one skewed POV.

Building a team is a VERY difficult task and then to build a program is even tougher. Some people may not realize that there is a difference in a team and program but there is. A program is the standards and expectations you have for your players year in and year out. A program is an attitude and work ethic. A team is a collection of individuals that a coach has to mold into a cohesive unit where you improve their skills. A team is more about athletic achievement that can change year to year. As Coach May has said you have to establish high standards and expectations on and off the field. It doesn't take the best player to be a part of the program and in fact the programs is usually built on the attitudes of the lower end kids but the team really takes off when the best players buy into the program. But sometimes you have to cast off the best players on the team for the sake of the long term health of the program.

Politics is a POV because parents or players don't want to become part of the team regardless of their abilities to perform for the team. Little Johnny might be a good player but Little Bobby is just as good but has great grades, works his butt off, respected by peers / teachers. Little Johnny could be a better student, could work harder in practice, gets into a small amount of trouble at school. Johnny's parents don't see / accept the intangibles are what separates Bobby from Johnny. In fact most people don't have a clue what the intangibles are that coaches see everyday. Mom and dad are now ticked off so they tell everyone they can find how terrible the coach is. The sad part is others will sometimes listen to what's going on.

You can't build a program in one or two seasons. It takes time to build a program because a program is built on consistency by the head coach. The asst coaches will change and the players obviously change but if the message is the same year after year after year then one group passes it down to the next group. New people coming in know beforehand what is expected and that gets the players realizing that politics doesn't exist. It also helps head off the vast majority of parent problems because they know the deal beforehand as well. But there are times when stupidity will prevail and you have to deal with a problem.

As for RJM said - he's 100% right. Coaches do make mistakes in evaluating talent. I know I have. I didn't have ulterior motives for playing one kid over another - I just thought the other kid was better and it turns out I was wrong. It happens.

Coaches do have favorite players and they tend to be the examples I used above with Little Bobby. Those types of kids will get a few more chances than a Little Johnny type kid. I'm not going to give myself headaches over a kid who has been given several chances (on the field and off) who continues to let himself and the team down. Quick story - this season in football we had a kid who was a problem and since I was defensive coordinator I had to deal with him as a defensive back. He messed up a couple of times and my advice to the head coach was to get rid of him because at some point he was going to quit because I was going to let up my standards and neither was the head coach. But the head coach kept giving him a few more chances because he wanted to help this kid make a turn for the better. I admired that in the HC but I didn't feel we could do it and he was starting to distract the team. Well the kid messed up and the HC made him come apologize to me for what he did. I told him I would accept his apology but he better realize that you can't apologize everything away. When you mess up there are repercussions and if you do it enough you lose credibility. I told him he was at that point with me in that I really didn't want to hear apologies when my main impression of him was he was going to be a problem. We caught him lying about two weeks later in why he didn't come to practice (in fact we made several phone calls to catch him in the lie - we worked for it). Once again I wanted to cut him loose but the HC said he had to do a lot of running in order to come back. He did part of the running and walked away and never returned. That showed the type of character he had and that is the type of kid you got to eliminate from your program. The worst part is in this case some parents will say this is an example of politics because we ran this kid off. It happens.

I guess what I'm saying (in a very long winded, rambling and sometimes off topic way) is that politics is a bad word people who lack a work ethic use to justify failure. They will use this to justify their failure for probably the rest of their lives. It does exist but overall it's just a POV some people take when they can't handle failure.

Sorry rambling is over now - but bless you if you made it this far.
This thread is nominated for Golden

PG, Coach May and Coach 2709 - classic posts as are every post I have read in this thread. Outstanding posts by all that have been MOST enjoyable to read!

PG - you were a lousy Coach. Cutting a future major league player - you were obviously playing politics Big Grin

Coach 2709 - what a post! I loved your description about the difference between building a team and a program. I saw my son's high school team develop into a program several years ago when two players were cut whose parents were prominent members of the booster club including the club President's son. The kids cut had talent but they also had attitudes. Took guts to do what he did but the "program" has been perenniel state title contenders ever since.

Coach May - I'll focus on one sentence of your fine post:
quote:
I have never played a kid that didnt work hard. Because if they dont work hard they are not on the team.

I used to think that baseball was an individual sport which to some extent it is. I thought that if you put 9 great players out on the field that you automatically win by out-talenting the other team. My experiences with high school baseball and beyond have taught me otherwise however. I believe the best "teams" win. Sometimes, the best teams are the most talented but sometimes they are not. You get every guy on the team believing in the "program" as Coach 2709 points out and you have a dynamic that is even more powerful sometimes than having the most talent. I think back to the famous/funny Bum Phillips quote on Don Shula. He said "He can take his and beat yours and take yours and beat his."
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I also agree 100% with fillsfan so long as the quote is coming from someone who acknowledges that the effects of politics do exist, yet he or she does not implement the power of politics.

I also agree that politics is often used as an excuse to cover for some perceived wrong. It happens. And it happens in all aspects of life.

And it also happens that politics, or more appropriately a superior position of power is used to squelch or punish. It happens. And it happens in all aspects of life.

Whether perceived or real it is frustrating to encounter this. In a much more perfect world it shouldn't happen often, but we don't exist in a perfect world...not even in a Factory Second world.

I have stated it many times before here on the HSBBW...to be a good coach, including everything needed to be a a good coach, requires a tremendous amount of hardwork, dedication, honest focus on success for themselves and their team, and an underlying sense of fairness. They are driven by good.

Not all coaches possess this combination or have the ability to achieve it. These coaches are, in my opinion, not good coaches. They, and their bad influence, are not appreciated.

And conversely, those coaches who substantially do possess these qualities and continue to strive for it, are good coaches. They are playing at or near the top of their game. They are appreciated. And they are especially appreciated by players and their families who have experienced a particularly poor coach.

When given a choice between a good coach or a bad coach the good coach is selected. This isn't any different than other choices we make.
    Good doctor? Bad doctor? Easy decision.
    Good mechanic? Bad mechanic? Easy decision.
    Good grocery store chain? Bad grocery store chain? Easy decision.
    Good dry cleaner? Bad dry cleaner? Easy decision.
    Geico©? Progressive©? Not such an easy decision!


We have choices in almost everything in life. But with coaches sometimes we don't have a choice. It is then that you hope your coach is a good one. And when the coach is good life is sweet!




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Last edited by gotwood4sale
quote:
Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.

We have choices in almost everything in life. But with coaches sometimes we don't have a choice. It is then that you hope your coach is a good one. And when the coach is good life is sweet!




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Yes it is!!!!




****Note from Moderator - CD ****
Coach Waltrip - loved your picture but it distorts reading of the thread. If you can find a smaller one, please repost - thanks!
Last edited by Coach Waltrip
Perhaps we could clone the coaches on this site and spread them across to HS programs across the country. What a public service that be.

Yes, there are good coaches and bad coaches, but I can tell you this: I wouldn't want to be one. You have to love the game an awful to put up some some of the pain-in-the-neck parents out there. (I should know. I think I was one once. Smile)

And let's face it, politics is the buzzword many parents fall back on when their kid isn't good enough to be in the starting lineup. It's a whole lot easier to cry politics than to say Junior is hitting .189 and couldn't catch a cold.

Kids who truly are stuck playing for bad coaches have to learn to deal with it. Just like all of us older folks have to deal with bad bosses. Life isn't always easy and isn't always fair. But how you handle things says a whole lot about what kind of person you are. Overcoming the politics, if they actually exist, is just another bump in life's road to navigate.
quote:
I believe the best "teams" win. Sometimes, the best teams are the most talented but sometimes they are not.


CD,
I agree and can't leave that one alone. Maybe a bit off topic, but very worthwhile topic on its own.

We tried to simplify winning so that everyone easily understood. Every win or success can be attributed to 4 main ingredients.

1 - Talent
2 - Effort
3 - Intelligence
4 - Luck

The plan was to be the best team on the field in the first three. When that happens, chances are #4 will also be on your side.

However, we would win many games where we weren't the most talented. Effort and intelligence can help improve talent, but once the game starts the other team may have more talent. Effort and intelligence were the most important areas for us. Our goal was to make **** sure that we were always #1 in those areas every time we took the field. It was something you could control to a certain extent.

In order to win when playing against better talent, you need to be better than them at 2 and 3. If you happen to have #4 on your side that day, all that much better.

Talent is still the most important thing, but the other things can overcome that at times. The days you take the field knowing you have the most talent, and also knowing you're #1 at effort and intelligence, it is a sure win nearly always. However, there is still "luck" which can change everything. If you are best that day at 1, 2 and 3. It takes a lot of luck for the other team to win.

Anyway, that was our simple philosophy. It wasn't that simple to actually accomplish everything.

I know this is off topic.

So I will add in a feeble attempt to get back on topic. Winning or success, be it baseball or anything else, be it team or individual, will always include the four ingredients. There might be even more ingredients, but the four will always play a huge part. Other things, people mention like character, class, etc… actually fall into one of the 4 categories IMO. How truly intelligent is an individual who shows no class?

So which of the 4 areas does “politics” fall under? If anything… maybe Luck? Luck is the only one of the 4 ingredients a person has no control over. Concentrate on the other 3 and everything is very likely to turn out well. Especially concentrate on #2 and #3!

Politics isn’t likely to stop the person who truly excels at 1, 2 and 3. IMO Those that allow politics to stop them in baseball, are likely to experience politics stopping them again in other areas.

Note: I could be all wet about this and should not be held responsible for anyone who fails, following the above ideas. I guess it is possible someone could have lots of talent, give the most effort possible and tries to be the most intelligent… And still fail on account of politics! I would take that chance, though. Effort and intelligence will usually overcome obstacles like bad luck and politics. IMO
quote:
And then there are programs that are always competitive and many times overachieve even when their talent level has dropped off. Their players always seem to get better year after year.

My son had the good fortune to play four years of high school in this kind of program. Every year the team contended for the league title, and every year the team went deep into state playoffs.

But almost every year it was predicted it would be a down year for the program, because they lost so many seniors, or because the key player had graduated, or because the talent level wasn't what it was in the past.

But without fail, the seasons would play out, and the team would contend. It would invariably get huge contributions from kids who nobody thought would ever be impact players. Modestly talented kids who were allowed to develop, to be a part of a system with a tradition of excellence.

The kids did indeed step up. Year in and year out.

And it was always to the amazement of the outsiders. Those of us on the inside were amazed by their amazement!
This takes it out of the realm of politics and back to the issue of "what makes a good coach?"

Even though I have not met any of you (with the exception of PG Staff, briefly, at Jupiter this year), it sounds like there are several coaches on this board whom I would love to have coach my son, like Coach May, PG, Funnel Drill and Coach Waltrip. But apparently circumstances can change, and sometimes overnight.

I know its the other sport, but three years ago, Eric Mangino was considered by a lot of people to be a good coach. He could have been elected governor of Kansas. Now, as stories come out about his statements to and treatment of players, it's unlikely he will last beyond this season.
Did he suddenly stop being a good coach, or did he just lose patience with the student athletes he recruited, and the loss of patience is making news?

A number of the alleged statements attributed to Mangino are being made by former players. Their playing days are apparently over, so is this "politics" on their part, or their chance to take a measure of revenge over some slight that happened several years ago that flew under the radar when the program was successful? Or, is this just sour grapes because they did not have the NFL career to which they felt they were entitled?

Would Mangino have been better off had he cut those players for "Conduct unbecoming" because of the attitude they displayed? In hindsight, probably so, since his words from years ago are now being used to torpedo him. Had he cut them, though, would he have been as successful? Perhaps not. It's a pretty fine line.

In any event, I do not envy you your jobs. I stopped my brand of coaching when he was 11 and my son is probably much the better for it. He's had good coaches since then, and others who were not as good. But it was never "politics" that kept him out of the lineup. It was usually curveballs. Good thing he can pitch a little bit.
I came to a school in 1996 that had not made the state playoffs in 13 years. When I asked the team I inherited how long had it been since the program had been to the playoffs no one knew. When I asked the parents at our meeting no one knew. I asked the players who was the last player from the program to make all state none of them knew. When I asked the parents none of then knew. I asked the players who was the last player to play in college. I asked the players who was the last player to be drafted. I asked the players who was the last player to sign with an ACC school. None of them knew. When I asked the players none of then knew. This was a program that at one time had three pitchers on the same staff that signed D1 and two were drafted. One pitched for the NY Yankees ML club. Two others set many records in college and one other was drafted and played AAA ball. That team did not even make the playoffs. Our players were never invited or made the state games. Our team was never invited to play in any of the pretigeous tournements at Easter break. We couldnt get any of the better programs to play us. Why? They wouldnt answer.

I asked them why they thought this was the case. None of the players said a word. When I asked the parents no one spoke up. I then told them they did not understand what it took to win. I told them they were 4 month players who did not understand that what you did in the off season , what you did when no one was watching would determine what you were capable of doing when everyone was watching. I told them they had a team from year to year and did not have a baseball program. I told them that many of them sitting there were not going to be willing to do what I was going to demand from them. The very best in the classroom. The very best of them off the field. And everything they had on the field. And an off season program that was going to demand more from them that many were going to be willing to give.

But I promised those that were willing that we would build a program. And I promised those that were willing they would part of something special , something they could be proud of. And I told them they would be able to answer those questions I asked them when they were seniors. Since that time we have won numerous conference championships , had several all state players , had several players go on to play in college , had four ACC signees and several players drafted. And another guy in the major leagues.

The thing I am most proud of is the fact that several guys that were rec league also rans have developed into great hs players who have gone on to play at several college programs at all levels of play. And several guys that had a wonderful hs baseball experience that would have not. Learning to hold yourself to a higher standard , learning what working hard really is , learning that being a part of something special is really something special.

It is truly amazing how much better a talented player can be when he is in an environment that challenges him to be better. And even more amazing how much better a less talented player will become when he is surrounded by players that are more talented than him that show the work ethic needed to be your best.

Now I can go to the local rec fields and they can answer the same questions my team and parents could not answer 13 years ago. Now after games some of my players are signing baseballs for the little kids at the games. Now the local kids are dreaming of wearing that jersey when they get in hs. Building a program is the most rewarding thing a coach can do imo. Teams are year to year. A program is the foudation those teams are built upon.

Nothing and no one person is more important than the program. Yes there are politics at every level of baseball just like in life at your job etc. Dont use politics or anything else as an excuse to fail. Overcome whatever obstacles you have to overcome. In the end it will make you a tougher person and will make you better for having to work to overcome.

I left my program in the hands of a great guy who will no doubt continue to build it. And I have moved on to other things in the game. But I doubt I will ever do anything that requires more work than building a winning program. Changing the culture of an entire community that believes that going .500 is a great year.
“When you have a good coach who doesn’t play politics, life is sweet.” Or something like that.

This thread makes me a little sad and jealous…. Why? Because I would have loved for my boys to play in a PROGRAM and on a TEAM with a GOOD COACH who didn’t play POLITICS. I wish the same thing for my daughters. I’m envious of all of you who don’t understand that concept. I’m envious of the coaches here who don’t understand that it can happen because they don’t play that game. I’m envious of the parents of children who haven’t experienced it. And I’m envious of the players who can follow the “commandment”—Play so well that they have to play you.

Sometimes, it IS about politics, or as gotwood4sale wrote, SUPERIOR POSITIONS OF POWER. We happen to be at a school with an incredibly corrupt and powerful athletic director /head football coach who has been at the school for over four decades. He coaches and directs that most, I can’t say ALL of the teams (maybe not badminton), follow his dictate. The players, parents, and other coaches who can benefit him are given many opportunities, regardless of talent or “heart”. There is no attempt to hide this. He has been at the school so long that “it is the way it’s always been done”. It’s been going on for literally generations. Too much power in one position. Anyone who has been brave enough to challenge him has been more than beaten back. Get on his **** list and your athletic future is diminished. The lost opportunities for student- athletes to grow and excel at this high school are numerous ----and that is inexcusable. Again, I am very envious of those of you who coach with the true spirit of coaching---for the kids--- and fair and square.

The flip side to him is the summer coach of my daughters’ softball program. He is a decades long AD/coach who is the mirror opposite of our AD. Oh how we wish that we would have moved to his school district on the opposite side of Crook County…..or that he had come to our high school...…Anyway, the point is, you are lucky and dare I say “blessed” if you have no concept or understanding that politics or someone using their superior power, CAN and DOES occur.

At least in the classroom, when you work very hard, you get rewarded with good grades--and therefore scholarship opportunities. It is too bad the same effort, when put forth in the athletic arena at our high school, is rewarded only when our AD decrees for it to happen---and by whom. It is a sad situation that needs to change---and NEVER should have been allowed to happen in the first place.
Last edited by play baseball
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
It is truly amazing how much better a talented player can be when he is in an environment that challenges him to be better. And even more amazing how much better a less talented player will become when he is surrounded by players that are more talented than him that show the work ethic needed to be your best.





Coach May, I've said it before and I'll say it again.... I wish you could have coached ALL of my children.
Last edited by play baseball
Coach May said this, too:
quote:
Yes there are politics at every level of baseball just like in life at your job etc. Dont use politics or anything else as an excuse to fail. Overcome whatever obstacles you have to overcome. In the end it will make you a tougher person and will make you better for having to work to overcome.



We HAVE used our experiences to help teach our children to fight for what you want, etc. But it is a mighty tough lesson for kids to learn that it isn't always the most deserving people who get the job or position, ......that sometimes it is who you know...and sometimes you don't stand a chance..... Mad
Last edited by play baseball
That is a very nice thing to say and I really do appreciate it play baseball. I can tell you that what I was taught by my coaches about life has been way more important to me than anything they taught be about the game itself. I remember being an 11 year veteran in the Durham Police Dept. I was a very hard working guy who paid my dues and did things the right way. I scored 2nd out of over 75 on the written test. I scored 1st on the review board. They selected 8 for promotion and I was not one of them. I was told "We need some more minorities in these posistions and we went with some other people for other reasons."

I remember the very next night when I went to work. Everyone telling me how I got the shaft. Telling me they would do this and do that if they were me. I never said a word back. I got in my patrol car and I drove to a quiet dead end street. I could hear my coach saying "Suck it up. Life is not fair. You got a job to do and thats why your on this team. Its not about who gets the glory or who gets the press its about us , this team. If its about you then get the hel out of here and dont come back." So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.

The next time around I got promoted. I was asked in the review board why did I feel I should be promoted. I said "I should have been promoted last time. But I was passed over for political reasons. But no matter what you do today its not going to stop me from doing what I believe is right and doing it the right way. I deserve to be promoted because I am the best person for the job. And thats not going to change regardless of what decision you make today."

So I say to hel with those that play politics. Your not going to stop me from playing this game as hard as I can. Your not going to steal my love of this game. Your not going to control me and stop me from doing what I know is right. And when its all said and done I will be able to look in the mirror and know I did it right and I fought and I was the best I could be. So play your games and kiss my a_s.
play baseball: I know where you are coming from and unfortunately so do many other parents. How awesome it would be to have coaches for our kids like the ones on here. Now that we've established that THESE coaches don't play politics, what advice do we give to the kids that are stuck in programs that do?

Again...don't put your whole baseball career in the hands of your HS coach. Get on travel teams and showcase teams and get the experience and exposure you need to be the best you can be. I've seen too many kids give up because they base their worth on what the HS coach thinks.

In the end, this doesn't have to be a bad situation if you use it for the life lessons. Overcoming adversity (aka politics) is a valuable lesson for the rest of their lives. Teach them not to dwell on the politics or even look for them. Stay away from the negative parents and players. Guide them toward programs outside HS in which they can excel and grow to their full potential. With all the showcase teams out there today, you don't need to depend on your high school experiences to play in college.

We didn't know this and though we almost got sucked into the negative parent group, we were able to look elsewhere for a more positive experience. But had we known to look outside of high school for opportunities, our son would have been on a much better timeline for exposure to colleges.
quote:
Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
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    "I'm telling ya GW, you gotta get yourself a can of the stuff and sit back and let all happen..."


We've been hearing how great this stuff is so a buddy and I set out Halloween night to get some. We went right to the source. They didn't want to hand any over so we tried to coax some from 'em!



And about those two holes in the ceiling? I swear there were clay pigeons flying around, but it turns out they were merely cup saucers.




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You guys drove all the way to Charlotte, NC? Isn't there a Waffle House closer to Chicago?
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:

So I say to hel with those that play politics. Your not going to stop me from playing this game as hard as I can. Your not going to steal my love of this game. Your not going to control me and stop me from doing what I know is right. And when its all said and done I will be able to look in the mirror and know I did it right and I fought and I was the best I could be. So play your games and kiss my a_s.


Coach, I couldn't agree with you more...

However, I'm sure you will still agree that young people (and sometimes their parents) have dificulty getting to this point in their thinking when faced with a difficult coach or other circumstance. Overcoming these difficult experiences becomes a skill learned through the struggles of our lives. Young people don't necessarily have the perspective and have to learn it just like you and I did...the hard way. There is no other way...

I know when I was young I did not always handle adversity as well as I could have (my wife says I still don't), but learned by these experiences to gain insight and perspective...

In fact, as difficult as it is to experience, it is necessary to go through what seems as an injustice, other wrong or failure, to grow and become a better person. It takes time for a person to learn how to grow stronger by adversity. Perspective and insight in my humble opinion, can be learned no other way...

This is one reason why baseball is so special...although a game, it mimicks the challenges of life in 9 innings...

I wish I could keep going but I have to go to St Louis now...Rant out!
Last edited by Coach Waltrip
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quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May: I can tell you that what I was taught by my coaches about life has been way more important to me than anything they taught be about the game itself. I remember being an 11 year veteran in the Durham Police Dept. I was a very hard working guy who paid my dues and did things the right way. I scored 2nd out of over 75 on the written test. I scored 1st on the review board. They selected 8 for promotion and I was not one of them. I was told "We need some more minorities in these posistions and we went with some other people for other reasons."

I remember the very next night when I went to work. Everyone telling me how I got the shaft. Telling me they would do this and do that if they were me. I never said a word back. I got in my patrol car and I drove to a quiet dead end street. I could hear my coach saying "Suck it up. Life is not fair. You got a job to do and thats why your on this team. Its not about who gets the glory or who gets the press its about us , this team. If its about you then get the hel out of here and dont come back." So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.


This is a simply great story. Says it all.


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quote:
Originally posted by observer44:
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quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May: I can tell you that what I was taught by my coaches about life has been way more important to me than anything they taught be about the game itself. I remember being an 11 year veteran in the Durham Police Dept. I was a very hard working guy who paid my dues and did things the right way. I scored 2nd out of over 75 on the written test. I scored 1st on the review board. They selected 8 for promotion and I was not one of them. I was told "We need some more minorities in these posistions and we went with some other people for other reasons."

I remember the very next night when I went to work. Everyone telling me how I got the shaft. Telling me they would do this and do that if they were me. I never said a word back. I got in my patrol car and I drove to a quiet dead end street. I could hear my coach saying "Suck it up. Life is not fair. You got a job to do and thats why your on this team. Its not about who gets the glory or who gets the press its about us , this team. If its about you then get the hel out of here and dont come back." So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.


This is a simply great story. Says it all.


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It doesn't get any better than this. Actual, real human drama.

How emotional this thread has become. It seems as if someone has been wronged by political forces beyond their control that these wounds can remain for a lifetime. The hurt is there and it is real. Somehow people have to figure out how to deal with it or better yet overcome it.

Similar to Coach May's account of how he reacted to his ultimate promotion, reminds of a scene from the classic movie "Shawshank Redemption" where Morgan Freeman's character answered the question of whether or not he had been rehabilitated. By the time they asked him the question, he no longer cared whether or not they agreed with his answer. All that mattered to him was whether or not he was comfortable with himself.
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In fact...take this and print it up and put it on the frig...

quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:

"Suck it up. Life is not fair. You got a job to do and thats why your on this team. Its not about who gets the glory or who gets the press its about us , this team. If its about you then get the hel out of here and dont come back." So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.

Your not going to stop me from playing this game as hard as I can. Your not going to steal my love of this game. Your not going to control me and stop me from doing what I know is right. And when its all said and done I will be able to look in the mirror and know I did it right and I fought and I was the best I could be.



...and have your son refer to it when things get tough and poliitcs get thick.

IMO the best things we can give our son's is an ability to stand for something regardless of situation. Not to be defined by, but rather to be bigger and better than situations or fools. That's called character and it is one of the rarest commodities out there and the one that will serve our son's long after baseball. While they are great, wins and success come and go, but character is for a lifetime.

Cool 44
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Last edited by observer44
Coaches May and 2279, thanks for your responses. My son's coach played it the way you guys might have. That makes me feel better.

By the way, Coach didn't cut the star RB. He did something worse. He put him on defense.
Last edited by Vicarious Dad
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:

So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.

and...

So I say to hel with those that play politics. Your not going to stop me from playing this game as hard as I can. Your not going to steal my love of this game. Your not going to control me and stop me from doing what I know is right. And when its all said and done I will be able to look in the mirror and know I did it right and I fought and I was the best I could be. So play your games and kiss my a_s.


That just about sums it up for me - and I know that I couldnt express it better if I tried a million times - Thanks Coach May!
Here is one for you. Son is sophomore on varsity team. He has played really competitive baseball last three summers on good teams in good tournaments across the southeast (East Cobb, Border Wars etc.) Last two seasons has batted at or near .500. He is a catcher primarily and bats from the left side. Competes with another boy on the team who is also a sophomore. This kid is a good pitcher. He also plays infield, but is not starting there. He also catches. The first playing of the season was three five inning games played on one day. My son was dh. The other kid was an extra hitter. Son goes 4 for 7 with three doubles. Other kid goes 0 for 7. Next week right before first game coach calls son outside and says you are not going to dh. The other kid does. Coach tells my son he is the number 2 catcher behind our senior. Tells him he might pinch hit. Later in the week our catcher is getting ready to pitch the next day and will not catch for two days. The other kid was put in to catch those two games. Several pass balls. The other kids dad is president of diamond club and has done much work to help coach. After the day son went 4 for seven, coach bragged to other coaches at school that he had found his DH. Something happened in that next week leading up to the first game. It is obvious. Parents have come to me wanting to know what is going on. Players know it. Son and I have talked about how there are bigger things in life like faith, family, working hard and doing the right thing. Son continues to work hard. He has sort of become the whipping boy for the coach. Yells at him and noone else. Coach and assistant say they are leaving after this year. However, same diamond club president.
eagle - I feel your pain.

I have said it before, I have no doubts politics exist at every level of the sport. You have no control over it so don't let it consume you like this. Worst case your son will shine this summer - he will not be harmed by this coach. I wouldn't discuss these things with the other parents and I certainly would not acknowledge them with my son.

For your son, encourage him. Let him know that the coach does not define his self-worth. Encourage him to be the best teammate on the team, always looking out for the welfare and well-being of the team. Take no joy when the other kid screws up. Cheer him on as if he were your own son. Attitude always, always, always overcomes. It always defeats politics. Remember that cartoon How the Grinch Stole Christmas? When the Grinch took away all the possessions in Whoville, the town was still grateful and joyous anyways. Instill that joy in your son and never let him see your disappointment. Don't let the Grinch defeat your spirit but let your attitude overcome.

I should add is one thing to be careful of is an entitlement attitude. Summertime performance entitles you to nothing. Sometimes, if the coach senses that, they will make an example in order to coach it out of him.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
ClevelendDad,
You make some very good points, and we have followed most of them. My wife and I are guilty of discussing this with son.That will stop.We are past the bitterness. It is just hard to handle sometimes, but you are correct in your analysis, and I thank you for your encouragement. Son works extremely hard on his game to the point of shoveling off snow in our cage to hit in the winter. His dream, like many other young men, is to play college ball. What is your opinion of accomplishing this without a great high school experience, but solid play in summer ball? Things sometimes have a way of working out in the end.

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