quote:
Originally posted by eagle88:
His dream, like many other young men, is to play college ball. What is your opinion of accomplishing this without a great high school experience, but solid play in summer ball? Things sometimes have a way of working out in the end.

My opinion is that he has already overcome and will see his dream come true as long as he does not allow others to control his positive attitude and love for the game. His summertime exposure will far exceed his spring exposure no matter how much he plays in the spring. The fact he plays in places like East Cobb and doing well will be his ticket to his dreams. This spring, build that joy in his heart knowing that "his" dream is alive and well and will continue this summer in spite of what happens this spring

For the kid whose Dad is pulling strings for him, unfortunately the father does not realize he is probably doing more harm than good by artificially removing competitive pressures. Thus, that other young man's dream may already be over.
Like Cleveland dad said - summer ball is the key. The tournaments your son is playing in will get him the exposure he needs for college opportunities. Politics... at our HS, principal's son get cut from his HS team(another local HS) and principal brings his kids over after our tryouts are done and over and puts him on our varsity HS team - no tryout - nothing. Kid played in a few of our games which needless to say - we ended up having to forfeit because he was an ineligible player. Yep. Politics. Everywhere. Be an overcomer and it sounds like you are! Best of luck and enjoy as it all is over far too soon.
Last edited by baseball_fever
Seeing some really bad things going on as far as politics go in my area. I think a dad I know posted here for advise and if that wasn't him then someone has an identical story, he was slammed here for his statements and pretty much told if his son was cut then he obviosuly wasn't good enough and that the coach cut at least the right parent, etc. Later the dad was riducled for being happy when his son was asked to play for a very good sumemr team in our area. If this is the same family I am thinking of, the kid does deserve to be on the high school team more so than many that are and is a GREAT kid, one of the best I've ever had the pleasure of speaking to. The parents have never said a word in the stands about their feelings but I am sure it is the same family. It has to be. This can't be happening this badly everywhere. Just odd how one poster is encouraged and the other is discouraged on basically the same topic.

I wish there was really something that could be done to eliminate this everywhere. It is getting worse and worse.
My son had some problems last year. He was a freshman who went from starting varsity to sitting on the freshman team. The best advice came from a personal friend who had played D1 baseball. Tell your sons that "The better player you are the less politics are involved. You have to play so well that they can't keep you out of the lineup." My son seemed to understand and accept this.
When focus on what you can not control you lose the ability to focus on what you can control. When you do this you end up proving to those that don't believe you can play they have made the right decision. When you focus on what you can control and stop worrying about what you can not control you are a much happier person.
In a perfect world the coaches would do what is best for the team and be fair to each and every player. There would be no nepotism and no favoritism. I agree that you have to let your child's talent and dedication speak for itself. That being said, what can be done when a coach is on a total power trip and thinks he's a demigod? Are high school coaches all powerful?
quote:
That being said, what can be done when a coach is on a total power trip and thinks he's a demigod? Are high school coaches all powerful?

baseballauntie - welcome to the hsbbweb!

I don't know if you read this entire thread but there are some good suggestions for your questions.

In my opinion, if the coach has it out for someone, there is not much they can do. I believe the player needs to try and be the best team player they can and bide their time until the summer. Many more games are played in the summer and almost all high school recruiting is either from summertime exposure or through showcases. You simply cannot control someone elses decision. The idea is to let that burden go and control the things you can like attitude, hustle, being the hardest worker, being a good teammate, etc. In essence be the bigger man than the coach.

They just started a thread called Heart, Hustle & Fundamentals and it is about Coach May's son. He was an elite level player in high school and is now fighting for playing time at the next level in college. Rather than letting the coach's decisions get him down, he is using his attitude to overcome it. That is the very best advice I can give.
thanks Clevelanddad-

I did read the thread and there are many good suggestions I passed along to my brother and my nephew.

It just gets frustrating dealing with all of the politics. I'm surprised that the coaches are just so arrogant. I guess its true that power corrupts.

You go to the meetings and they tell you to just quietly watch the game.....that is really funny??? Puhleeze...this is baseball, not tennis.
Politics???? Deal with it. Life is not fair so better get used to it. To some politics is an excuse. To some it is just something they have to deal with. You can moan and groan about it or your kid can fight through it.
to some it is just an excuse. to some it is real and you have to fight through it. the key is knowing the difference.
Will,

Well put. Cream rises to the top. If a kid is that talented and has the right attitude, it is difficult to keep him down for very long.
Every HS program has politics to some degree or another-- most of those who complain about the "politics" are those whose kids would not be starters anyway
.

My description of events is intentionally a bit cryptic. I don't want to hand out any ammo to those folks in our school district who have been enabling dishonest, corrupt, and bullying behavior in our district. And keep in mind that I am posting this while sitting in Cook County, Illinois. I follow politics. I recognize dishonesty, corruption, and bullying when I see it. And my eyes are wide open!

I am posting this to encourage other HSBBW members to face up to obviously unfair political situations. I agree fully with what Will said...
    "to some it is just an excuse. to some it is real and you have to fight through it. the key is knowing the difference."

If what is happening at your school or community is truly unfair and dishonest then stand up and fight. Why should dishonesty, corruption, and bullying be accepted? It shouldn't!

Get involved. Gather the troops. Be smart. Be honest. Be victorious! Don't tolerate what is wrong!



"control the things you can"
    I'm very pleased to report that we did just that at our high school CD!


"You go to the meetings"
    For years someone very high up in a department not academic would stand at the back of the room during school board meetings. At these public meetings, where input from the community is sought, if you dissented about anything academic or athletic the someone very high up would write down your name.

    Intimidating? Yes.

    Unethical? Yes.

    Is this behavior worth fighting against? You betcha!

"Politics???? Deal with it"
    We did.

"fight through it"
    We did.

"Cream rises to the top"
    Yes indeed! And heavy crud settles on the bottom!

    Our success? We now have a new superintendent. The dishonest one was booted by our newly elected school board. A decent and honest professional replaced him.

    Rumor has it the someone very high up has been told to leave at the end of the year. This person has been bullying this high school for decades...and now this person's reign of terror is over.

    Who benefited from this person's behavior? A select few.

    Who was harmed by this person's behavior? Nearly everyone else.



I say to members faced with a situation that is intolerable...
    You will know when it is worth a fight.

    Your enemy will try to intimidate and demoralize you.

    Consider all of that as high octane fuel.

    Tune up your car. Put on a new set of tires. Find the key. Put it into the ignition and turn it confidently. Shift into drive and floor it. Don't look back. You will quickly empty your tank of that high octane fuel...and you will coast across the finish line as the victor!

    Savor your victory...a victory that will be remembered and cherished by all others who follow!





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Last edited by gotwood4sale
gotwood4sale - that is a good example that there are those out there who can poison the well. In some cases, almost criminally so as you have reported. I have been consistent in this regard. I believe politics exist at every level of the sport and most endeavors in life for that matter. Unfortunately, people have to find a way to mentally overcome it because the troublemakers out there usually cannot be dealt with in a timely enough manner before a high school career has already passed someone by.

I believe in the corny stuff like cream rises to the top but that is only in general. Specifically, the cream may not rise fast enough to overcome an insurmountable obstacle that may be corrupt at its core.

What does someone do if the high school coach or other administrator does not allow the cream to rise? IMHO, they do not give up. They devise plan B that allows the cream to rise sometime down the road. Plan B is to find a summer team where they will play. Plan B is to find a venue where they can showcase their skills before college decision makers. Plan B is pay no more mind to the troublemakers and yes control those things you can control. Otherwise, the evil-ones will destroy you and your loved ones from the inside out and that is a victory that must be denied them.

I know that everyone wants Plan A and that is to play on the high school team and see their name in the local newspaper every now and then. Sometimes it is not in the cards. Doesn't mean that the cream cannot still rise. Plan B might not be the best pill to swallow but it can be adequate under the circumstances.

For those that refuse to be defeated (mentally, spritually), they can see Plan A come to life in college - after the cream has been given the proper chance to rise and after others whose politically-enhanced careers have long since ended. Forgive me for abusing this particular metaphor but it seems to be what we are all talking about here.
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I agree with what you're saying CD.

The victories that I described have taken our community probably ten years to achieve. Our oldest son started there in the fall of 2001 and our youngest daughter will finish in the spring of 2013. They are all athletes. The key to our success was getting a school board elected that honestly addressed all of these problems. That took a few election cycles to accomplish, but we did it.

And we got a lot of support from voters whose children have graduated. These voters remain taxpayers and were not happy with the situation when their children were attending school and they were still not happy with the situation until the recent string of victories. Now we're all happy...and the high school is on it's way to being a much better place!




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Last edited by gotwood4sale
quote:
Originally posted by wz8fvm:
My son had some problems last year. He was a freshman who went from starting varsity to sitting on the freshman team. The best advice came from a personal friend who had played D1 baseball. Tell your sons that "The better player you are the less politics are involved. You have to play so well that they can't keep you out of the lineup." My son seemed to understand and accept this.


Performance is often the greatest equilizer of politics and perceptions......

ESPECIALLY in programs of a level where the coach tends to lose his job if he does not win....(HS, college)...
I guess my "cream rises to the top" comment was not well received. Are there politics? No doubt. But i would not tell my kid about the politics and get him all hung up over things he cannot control. If you read the original post, this is a freshmen. Let's let him get his feet wet before we cry foul play over politics. If he is truly throwing in the eighties with three other solid pitches as a lefty, he is not going to get overlooked for some mid seventies, 1 pitch, right handed thrower.

If the politics are that profound, I would raise the question in private, in the off season. I would suspect that there would be many other parents willing to fight with you if the problem is that bad. JMO.
thank you for the help guys. I appreciate the constructive criticism and suggestions. I can tell you live in the real world and have dealt well with the good and the bad.

As for the negative people....I'm sure there's a reason you are the way you are.

We have always told our kids its all about their performance and what they bring to the game. We don't tell a coach how to do his job. I hate parents that are always whining to the coach about their kids. We do not do that.

We have told the kids to ask the coach what they are doing (or not doing)and how can they improve? I believe if the coach is worth his salt he will be approachable.
quote:
That being said, what can be done when a coach is on a total power trip and thinks he's a demigod? Are high school coaches all powerful?
The player and the parents learn to deal with it and move on. My son was told not to go to his pitching coach during the season. I figured he could do his off day bullpen with his pitching coach since the head coach doesn't have a plan for pitchers. My son obeys the rules for fear of consequences or having to lie to protect himself.
This thread has been very interesting for me to read as my son is involved with "political" issues on his HS team this season. He is a hard worker with some talent, and has a very good travel team that will provide a ton of great summer baseball, so we are not truly desperate about the poor high school experience and have tried to be generally positive as suggested by so many posters. But there is no denying that favoritism and plain bad coaching decisions undermine team morale and make the entire experience a drain of valuable time as well as a loss of an opportunity and fun. As a parent, one cannot assume that hard work and ability will be rewarded but rather one must work hard to diversify the opportunities your child has so that you cannot be entirely held hostage by any one coach.
Once you ignore the politics in HS ball, life becomes more enjoyable. My son's goal is to stay healthy to do well this summer on his showcase team. If he can help out his HS, then great, if they choose to play politics, that is fine too. He is focused on his summer season and personally I prefer if he stays healthy and not risk his chances of playing this summer. His summer coach has told all the players to remember that HS ball has nothing to do with Showcases. It has been a very enjoyable season, son is happy and so are we. Once you put it into perspective, there is no reason to get rattled by the politics.
quote:
Originally posted by greenmonstah:
Once you ignore the politics in HS ball, life becomes more enjoyable. My son's goal is to stay healthy to do well this summer on his showcase team. If he can help out his HS, then great, if they choose to play politics, that is fine too. He is focused on his summer season and personally I prefer if he stays healthy and not risk his chances of playing this summer. His summer coach has told all the players to remember that HS ball has nothing to do with Showcases. It has been a very enjoyable season, son is happy and so are we. Once you put it into perspective, there is no reason to get rattled by the politics.


Well Said
Several team moms are trying to collect money for coaches' gifts. The responses have been interesting. One person offered to buy a book, "Coaching 101", but no money. Another said "Absolutely Not!" Another asked if they had "earned" it, another if they "deserved" it.

While I do feel politics/favoritism have hurt the team, I also acknowledge that there wouldn't be a team if these guys hadn't essentially volunteered. I have tried to focus on that, and the fact that my son continues to work hard, and in many ways, is more prepared for the next level, than the guys currently standing on the pedestal.

I have to admit, I have only achieved limited success in ignoring it. :-) However, I am able to work around it.
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
Several team moms are trying to collect money for coaches' gifts. The responses have been interesting. One person offered to buy a book, "Coaching 101", but no money. Another said "Absolutely Not!" Another asked if they had "earned" it, another if they "deserved" it.

While I do feel politics/favoritism have hurt the team, I also acknowledge that there wouldn't be a team if these guys hadn't essentially volunteered. I have tried to focus on that, and the fact that my son continues to work hard, and in many ways, is more prepared for the next level, than the guys currently standing on the pedestal.

I have to admit, I have only achieved limited success in ignoring it. :-) However, I am able to work around it.


High school coaches are paid, not volunteers. I cringed everytime these team moms came around with their hand out for donations for a gift. They get paid well for their regular teaching job and the extra loot they get paid to coach. I just don't get why they find this necessary.
Last edited by zombywoof
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
Several team moms are trying to collect money for coaches' gifts. The responses have been interesting. One person offered to buy a book, "Coaching 101", but no money.


That's a classic. Too funny.
Coaching 101 - yep that was funny. My friend collects the money too - her kid plays in several sports. I don't envy her volunteering to do that - she gets alot of **** from parents. I mean it is hard to ask for money when a kid rides the pine. I like to volunteer but for helping at prom and stuff - non confrontational Smile.
Last edited by baseball_fever
quote:
Originally posted by zombywoof:
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
Several team moms are trying to collect money for coaches' gifts. The responses have been interesting. One person offered to buy a book, "Coaching 101", but no money. Another said "Absolutely Not!" Another asked if they had "earned" it, another if they "deserved" it.

While I do feel politics/favoritism have hurt the team, I also acknowledge that there wouldn't be a team if these guys hadn't essentially volunteered. I have tried to focus on that, and the fact that my son continues to work hard, and in many ways, is more prepared for the next level, than the guys currently standing on the pedestal.

I have to admit, I have only achieved limited success in ignoring it. :-) However, I am able to work around it.


High school coaches are paid, not volunteers. I cringed everytime these team moms came around with their hand out for donations for a gift. They get paid well for their regular teaching job and the extra loot they get paid to coach. I just don't get why they find this necessary.
The moms have been doing it since LL. It's their way of injecting themselves into the process. Some think it's helping their son's chances of playing. In some cases it may be true. I donate to the program through buying an ad in the program no one reads. I won't donate for a coach's gift.
Last edited by RJM
quote:
Originally posted by zombywoof:
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
Several team moms are trying to collect money for coaches' gifts. The responses have been interesting. One person offered to buy a book, "Coaching 101", but no money. Another said "Absolutely Not!" Another asked if they had "earned" it, another if they "deserved" it.

While I do feel politics/favoritism have hurt the team, I also acknowledge that there wouldn't be a team if these guys hadn't essentially volunteered. I have tried to focus on that, and the fact that my son continues to work hard, and in many ways, is more prepared for the next level, than the guys currently standing on the pedestal.

I have to admit, I have only achieved limited success in ignoring it. :-) However, I am able to work around it.


High school coaches are paid, not volunteers. I cringed everytime these team moms came around with their hand out for donations for a gift. They get paid well for their regular teaching job and the extra loot they get paid to coach. I just don't get why they find this necessary.


I don't how much they are paid in NJ, but it comes down to cents/hour in NC, especially for baseball. (Things are different down here!) :-) That is why I said "essentially". We have 2 HCs and 2 volunteer assistants. So I think a few extra dollars - the volunteers come straight from work so use their own gas for away games - is fine.

In fact, one county just voted to cut that extra "pay". I may have some issues, but the coach does work hard on having a nice field in addition to time with the team.
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
quote:
Originally posted by zombywoof:
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
Several team moms are trying to collect money for coaches' gifts. The responses have been interesting. One person offered to buy a book, "Coaching 101", but no money. Another said "Absolutely Not!" Another asked if they had "earned" it, another if they "deserved" it.

While I do feel politics/favoritism have hurt the team, I also acknowledge that there wouldn't be a team if these guys hadn't essentially volunteered. I have tried to focus on that, and the fact that my son continues to work hard, and in many ways, is more prepared for the next level, than the guys currently standing on the pedestal.

I have to admit, I have only achieved limited success in ignoring it. :-) However, I am able to work around it.


High school coaches are paid, not volunteers. I cringed everytime these team moms came around with their hand out for donations for a gift. They get paid well for their regular teaching job and the extra loot they get paid to coach. I just don't get why they find this necessary.
The moms have been doing it since LL. It's their way of injecting themselves into the process. Some think it's helping their son's chances of playing. In some cases it may be true. I donate to the program through buying an ad in the program no one reads. I won't donate for a coach's gift.


excuse me? That is rude and sexist. And don't get on yer high horse - it's a blanket statement applied in a thoughtless way.

cripes
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
quote:
Originally posted by zombywoof:
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
Several team moms are trying to collect money for coaches' gifts. The responses have been interesting. One person offered to buy a book, "Coaching 101", but no money. Another said "Absolutely Not!" Another asked if they had "earned" it, another if they "deserved" it.

While I do feel politics/favoritism have hurt the team, I also acknowledge that there wouldn't be a team if these guys hadn't essentially volunteered. I have tried to focus on that, and the fact that my son continues to work hard, and in many ways, is more prepared for the next level, than the guys currently standing on the pedestal.

I have to admit, I have only achieved limited success in ignoring it. :-) However, I am able to work around it.


High school coaches are paid, not volunteers. I cringed everytime these team moms came around with their hand out for donations for a gift. They get paid well for their regular teaching job and the extra loot they get paid to coach. I just don't get why they find this necessary.
The moms have been doing it since LL. It's their way of injecting themselves into the process. Some think it's helping their son's chances of playing. In some cases it may be true. I donate to the program through buying an ad in the program no one reads. I won't donate for a coach's gift.


excuse me? That is rude and sexist. And don't get on yer high horse - it's a blanket statement applied in a thoughtless way.

cripes
I'm stating what I've seen repeatedly since kiddie ball sports. If you don't like the truth so be it. Sometimes the truth isn't pretty. But it's still the truth. I've seen mothers attempt to get to the coaches in middle and high school with the same routine. I've seen mothers politic in middle and high school to be team mom when there isn't a team mom. I've seen mothers act like team mom when there isn't one. I've seen some become indignant when doing something for the team didn't help their son. I've never seen a dad say, "Let's raise some money for a gift for the coach." This doesn't mean there aren't dads conniving and politicking for their sons from different angles.

When I coached kiddie ball sports through pre high school sports I told the parents in the preseason meeting coaches don't need gifts because we coach for the love of the game and we don't need a team parent. It took politics out of the picture right from the start.

I remember when our school district redrew the elementary school boundaries due to growth and a new school. Two years later at the elementary school graduation the principal commented how well the kids handled change and how nice it would have been had the parents been able to do the same. The squabbling over power for home room mom and PTA spots after the lines were redrawn was ridiculous. At school events there were mothers who wouldn't talk to each other while attemptoing to run a school function. Just the truth.
Last edited by RJM
quote:
Originally posted by zombywoof:
High school coaches are paid, not volunteers. I cringed everytime these team moms came around with their hand out for donations for a gift. They get paid well for their regular teaching job and the extra loot they get paid to coach. I just don't get why they find this necessary.


I believe most high school coaches don't want the gifts - I know I don't. It's too awkward because it's usually done at some postseason banquet or cookout. Some busy body gets up in front of everyone and makes some speech about how great we are and then hands us something. But it just feels like everyone is looking at the two of us standing there watching the parent s uc k up to us. Maybe they are and maybe they aren't but it sure does look like it.

Also, the volunteer coaches are the ones who deserve something. To give up what they give up to coach for free is truly amazing. But how do you give it to them without making it look like someone is suckinp.

Not sure about where you are but in the two states I've taught the pay is ridiculos from teaching and coaching. For example - the school I'm at now I am asst. baseball, asst. football and have a masters degree. I'm probably going to have to get a job in the summer just pay my bills. I'm not living above my means either. How sad is it when someone who is highly educated, gets oustanding reports on observations and coaches two sports can't make ends meet?
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
excuse me? That is rude and sexist. And don't get on yer high horse - it's a blanket statement applied in a thoughtless way.

cripes


It's not rude. It's the way it is. Been there done that. As for the sexist thing. That's your issue, not mine. I too have never had dads come up to parents and ask for handouts for a coach since LL days. Yes, dads have their angle too. It's all for posturing and to get HS Johnny a better shot at varsity and playing time. Go see if that same mom who's HS Jonny sophomore is expecting to start on varsity the following season but winds up on JV instead. Go see if she's rushing around the next season to collect loot for the same HC who cut him down to JV.

The money from the parents should be spent in the booster club where it's parents only raising money for the team to purchase the extras the school budgets won't cover like pre-game meals on game days after school, equipment, warmup gear etc and the only involvement the HC should have is to make sure everything is ok and certain fundraisers involving his players may need some input.
Last edited by zombywoof
In all 3 high school districts my kids have attended, coaches in every school sport receive a small gift during the after season banquet.
Last edited by SultanofSwat
55mom and RJM,
I don't know how much a Head baseball coach in your areas make, but, I do know what they used to get in our area which was $2200. per season which at 18 to 20 weeks of practice and play which works out to $110. to 120. per week which at a mininmum of 4 hours a day 6 days a week thats about $5.00 per hour give or take. They can make more than that a McDonalds.

I agree with coach 2709, Most coaches don't want gifts, but they do enjoy getting a plaque with a team picture on it. Yes, it is a gift of sorts, but, is usually given by the team leaders, not by a parent or group of parents.
quote:
I agree with coach 2709, Most coaches don't want gifts, but they do enjoy getting a plaque with a team picture on it. Yes, it is a gift of sorts, but, is usually given by the team leaders, not by a parent or group of parents.


That's reasonable. If this is something the players want to do and present it, then by all means, do it. Let it be from the players. It will mean a whole lot more if comes from them.
Last edited by zombywoof
At our post season banquet each year the booster club has presented the coaches with gift certificates to a resturant or a round of golf. It has never been an issue and is taken as it is meant, to show our appreciation for all the time they put in with our kids. The coaches won't take Joe Torres job anytime soon but they do the best they can and they try to do the right things for the kids. That's about all I can ask for.

In the four years junior has been playing at the high shcool I have never witnessed any politics or bad feelings parents might have towards each other or any of the kids. I know some parents wish their son would have played more but I haven't seen any parent to parent pettiness. I guess I've been lucky to have been around realitively sane parents all these years.

Games are always pleasant with everyone cheering for the team and individual kids.
.

    "Not sure about where you are but in the two states I've taught the pay is ridiculous from teaching and coaching."

Move to the Chicago area coach. Here's an example for you.

Superintendent of one of our school districts in our little suburban village. The details ...
    One junior high school with an enrollment of 400.
    Four small elementary schools with a total enrollment of 1100.
    Total enrollment for entire district is 1500.
    Annual salary, not including his generous benefits, will be $313,000/year when he retires in 2013 at age 58.
    He will receive 80% of his average annual salary based on the last four years of service. A pension probably somewhere close to $250,000/year.

At age 58 he can still seek another job...and end up with a pension from that job as well. An effort (letter writing campaign) was made to have our school board rescind this outrageous agreement. This effort was not led by an "angry Tea Party" type. Quite the contrary. The school board, knowing full well what a mess the economy is in, would not budge.

Everyone is wondering if any of those school board members will be stubborn and stupid enough to run for reelection. We hope they run again. How sweet it will be to pull the lever against them and send them swirling away!



.
Last edited by gotwood4sale
Woody that is ridiculous and insane for someone to get that kind of deal. You know I'm not looking to get rich off teaching because I know it will never be seen as that important. Vast majority of times when people find out I teach (who are not teachers) they try to be nice but it's obvious they look down on me because of my chosen field of vocation.

Don't expect to be rich but would like to at least live comfortably and not worry about which bill I can during the month so I won't overdraft my bank account.

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