Pro vs College question

It is important to improve his grades so that he has options. Then he can make the BEST choice for him.

1450 on the SAT is a very good score. It is apparent that the ability to make good grades is there based on the SAT score.

That kind of score is getting close to receiving decent academic money. Have a good senior year and I am sure you still have many options.

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It is important to improve his grades so that he has options

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Have a good senior year and I am sure you still have many options.

This is some of the best advice you can get. Please don’t let him shut the door to college this early. His grades aren’t that bad and he still has a year to improve them.

Good Luck to him.

1450 is a very good score out of 1600 but if you are talking about out of 2400 (new sat) then that is a different story. I don't think I would indicate that college wasn't in the mix at all, I would simply let them know that your considering your options as things play out.

It's like getting a 950 (around that score) out of 1600. By the way, he can still take it again in his senior year. But because it is out of 2400, the "good" level drops because you have alot more questions to get wrong. So a perfect is really really good.

I have heard that 1450 is pretty good and that his 2.50 GPA because he goes to a private school isn't that bad if he can show that he can get it up this year. I'm just wondering how many kids end up just going pro even if they aren't drafted in the top rounds and do the scouts encourage that to get them cheaper. I would rather he go to college so we'll keep working in that direction.

The admissions dept. will give you the minimum required and average SAT for the past few years of any school your son is looking into.
1450 of 2400 (new SAT) equates to something between 1000-1080 (old SAT).
RE: GPA, you can ask the college how the 2.5 equates, too. And if grades are weighted at the private, if the courses were AP or College Prep.
Juco is also an option...they offer more scholarships (24 vs. 11.7)
He can take the SAT again in August, Oct, Jan...Some schools will take a best score from each test.

gpct8500,

My son's grades and test scores were similar to your son's, when he graduated from high school in 2004 (an academically challenging private school). He was not a draft prospect, but his decision was between a less academically challenging D2 with a strong baseball program, where he was automatically admitted based on test scores, or a more challenging D3 with a good but developing baseball program, where he was borderline for admission. He chose the D3, and had to get some of his high school teachers involved in helping him get accepted.

We still wondered whether he could pass his college courses, and it has not been easy, but so far he is making appropriate progress toward a degree. He likes college much more than he thought he would, and he LOVES college baseball. The team camaraderie in college is key - he will never, ever forget this experience, and the friends he has made, for the rest of his life.

This doesn't exactly address your son's "pro vs college" decision, but I just thought I would share that from the perspective of a student/athlete who didn't know if college would be a good fit for him.

To all let me say this has been a tough Question in are house for a month are so.
My 06 son was a drafted player, are should I say a draft and follow player.
And before the draft we were waiting to see if any scholly money would be available after the Draft.
Well there was School's that were contacting him after the Draft.
We had to wait till my 06 was back home from oversea's.
And after all said school's had seen him this past week.

Also out of respect for the Team that Drafted him, We sat and Talked to his Scout.
It's the Hardest Decision my Son has ever had to Make.
And being the Parent, I had to let him Make that Decision on his Own.
I believe he made the Right Decision and I will Back him up 100%.
Either decision he would of made I would of backed it!! EH

Gpct8500,
Great questions and some great answers. I agree with MNMom when she says most student athletes love college and college baseball. Again this has nothing to do with your question but I will add that my son really enjoyed college and college baseball. College has few negatives. Again I agree with most when they talk about OPTIONS! Options are the greatest asset a player can have when determining his future (baseball or otherwise). Couple of things to consider here. For the most part D1 college coaches are baseball coaches and are only concerned if a player lacks the academics to remain eligible during his college years. I had a mother of an excellent pitcher (with weak academics) tell me a nationally known D1 coach told her if she could get her son’s ACT high enough to gain admittance into his college that he could KEEP him eligible. In most instances the baseball coach is all about baseball and academics is relegated to being just a necessary component that perpetuates his baseball program! EVERYONE knows the importance of academics but baseball is their game and their concerns are baseball related.
Professional scouts are looking to draft only those players that are going to accept their offer to play professional baseball. Signability is a big issue with professional scouts as it should be. One has to assume the weaker the player’s academics, the higher the probability he will sign if offered. I’ve heard discussions go both ways in trying to determine if weaker academics could “help” his draft status? My gut feel tells me the weaker academics will actually hurt his draft status and/or his signing bonus. Again I think this is where the “options” come in and enhances the player’s negotiating position. Scouts are very aware of the “options” the player will be faced with and the seasoned scout can pretty much tell which way a player will go when offered. Just a side note: In my opinion the player may be the “mouthpiece” in declaring his intention to go pro or college, but the parental influence is obvious even with those that claim it was “his” decision so look for scouts to get Mom and Dad’s positions on the pro/college choice. I might ad that I have heard of many players professional careers have been postponed just because a parent said something during the recruiting process.
Fungo

Fungo,
Great post! There is nothing wrong with college baseball, in fact I think baseball made son a better student. I remember while in college I found every excuse known to mankind to get out of class. Son has no excuse, you go or you don't play.

I just wanted to add something. I found out recently that many coaches receive a bonus for every player that has a GPA above 3.0!

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Originally posted by Fungo:
My gut feel tells me the weaker academics will actually hurt his draft status and/or his signing bonus. Again I think this is where the “options” come in and enhances the player’s negotiating position. Scouts are very aware of the “options” the player will be faced with and the seasoned scout can pretty much tell which way a player will go when offered.

Fungo, I completely agree with this.


On one hand you may have some scouts telling you your son should start his pro career early, that college coaches are only worried about winning and not player development, the benefits of playing everyday, etc.

Then, the college coaches are telling you about the valve of an education, the excitement of playing in a college world series, and how small a percentage of pro players make it all the way.

It can feel like you are being torn in two different directions.

Add to that, a major leaguer who advises if your son doesn’t go in the first couple of rounds and get very good money to sign then he should go to college. Wow, is it any wonder parents get involved?

So, keeping the option of going to college open is very important. Whether, he decides to go to a DI or a JUCO.

Some kids are ready to sign after school and others may need another year or two. It is all about keeping your options open.

Just wanted to add, that IMO signing with a well know DI for baseball will probably get him more of a signing bonus than signing with a junior college or smaller 4 year school. But, that is probably a different topic.

Having been through the process I have to repectfully disagree with the above statment.

While higher GPA gives you more options for choices, it does not necessarily mean you will have better draft options. More and more teams (due to restrictions with slot money unless you are a TOP prospect) will not offer you a bonus and give you extra money for your scholarship amount in your pocket. They will let you walk away and try again in three years. Yeah, yeah I know there is a MLB scholarship plan, but it is NOT the college experience. And make sure you read it carefully beforehand.

It's esier for a team to sway a prospect to sign that might have difficulty going to school and handling baseball at the same time. I have seen more prospects NOT drafted out of high school or drafted later rounds(with hopes of a draft and follow) because of good scholarships and high GPA's. I have seen more and more HS prospects getting drafted because of lower GPA's and small scholarhip amounts. No offense to anyone with my opinion.

Someone said once, the draft isn't always about finding and getting the best talent, but the best available players.

TPM,

I understand why you disagree and respect your opinion.

I agree with you that many very good players go un-drafted because a club may not believe he can be signed away from college.

I know of a very good pitcher who had the talent to go in the early rounds of the draft a couple of years ago. He was an excellent student, his father was a doctor, and he had a scholarship to a very good University. He went un-drafted because he wasn’t signable.

I think scouts do a very good job of checking out prospects for signability before the draft. That means a lot of very good players won’t get drafted, because the scouts know they can’t get them to sign.

Not to venture too far off on a tangent, but are there any restrictions on pro scouts speaking to H.S. players that can effect NCAA elligibility rules?

There are no restrictions on professional scouts talking to high school players.

Thats correct. Pro baseball and pro scouts have no restrictions at all. They can come and go as many times as they would like and they can call and talk to you every single day if they so choose.

As for college baseball vs Pro baseball. That would be a personal option. Most kids and their parents like the college option because they know what the road leads to as oppossed to the unknow fear factor that goes with what pro ball has to offer. AT LEAST IN THEIR MINDS. I see many many kids who transfer from one college to the next because the situation didn't turn out the way they wanted it to in college. I also think that has a bearing. In pro ball if the player or parent doesn't like the way its going there is no undoing or changing it. Pro baseball and all the teams do a great job of taking care of the high school players. They really do.

For most parents and even the players now. Its about the all mighty dollar. If your goal is money, GO TO SCHOOL. If its about trying to be a major league player, GO PRO.

I hear alot of this college experience bull. Well you get that everyday in pro ball. You meet some great people and all of them are also within the 4 years of age you would be in college. You'll have lifetime friends and even better fun than in college because your doing baseball everyday and not attending class as a social security number. In pro baseball you have a name.Is it really about the partys? Can you name one job that will give you a 100 grand bonus and pay for your college? Can you name one job that you can get that will pay you over a million dollars a year if you make it to the big leagues. Sure its hard to make it. But shouldn't everything be something that you have to really work hard to attain?

VANCE34,GREAT POST MY BROTHER!!!

All of these responses are very good!

It is really the individual's own decision and can be very difficult to make.

I've seen the best and the worst of each side of decision and as I have said many times here and elsewhere You better get the dough while the gettins good. Here are just a few from 2006 draft that I have seen in scouting endeavors>

Clayton Kershaw
Colton Willems
Preston Mattingly
Kyle Drabek
Chris Marrero
Chris Huseby

and on and on....this is just the tip of the iceberg...help me out with others HSBBW board....There are many many more! Peace, Shep

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You want a $1,000,000 in the bank, plus college costs, or do you want to roll the dice, study hard and try to become a great ballplayer at the same time?

I believe that would almost be a no Brainer.

But in Reality, for every drafted player going into the pro's.
there's an equal number of Pro player's being released out the other end.

Yeah and for every kid with a college degree over half aren't even in the field that they studied.

An investment becomes a GOOD investment no matter the cost of the investment if it is worked. Wonder what PIAZZA was thinking when he signed in the 62nd round or Keith Hernadez in the 40 something round and, well I could go on and on.

Again, I wonder how big the fight would be to get on the bus if every player drafted got the same amount?

Vance

I take it you have no college degree---just by the weay you post--you can correct me if I am wrong-- for many it is quite important, the degree that is--there are already too many training centers being run by excellent baseball players who did not make it--not knocking them --just stating fact--what else can they do ?

In this day and age most times a college degree wont get you anywhere--many companys are looking for graduate degrees

It is a decision for each individual but I know where I would go---$1 million doesnt last long after taxes

I'll give you an even more recent example than that who plays in TX LEAGUE out your way Vance.
His name is Terry Evans who was drafted and signed in 47th round a couple years back by St Louis and promptly just got traded to Angels for Jeff Weaver with Jared Weaver taking Jeff's place in the rotation. I spoke with Terry, Coach Derrick May and Coach Pop Warner before many FL STATE LEAGUE games before the trade and gave what I thought were some helpful tips on hitting. Terry Evans is currently leading all Minor League Hitters in HRs if you include Palm Beach Cards, Springfield(before Trade) and currently Arkansas Travelers AA. Dennis Dove is currently throwing 96 97 98 MPH as setup man for Cards and being looked at by some clubs looking for closer. Excellent candidate IMHO.
Don't worry, I'll keep you updated on all of them. Just go to PG professional forum threads and you will see what I mean. Peace, Shep

And as to the topic?

It is a very Personal decision that every Drafted Player must face.
For some they know that Pro ball as quik as possible is the Answer. No matter what round they were Drafted.
For Some even Know they may have Top Bonus money Available, Choose College.

Then there's the Betweener's. Is that a word??

Can there be a wrong are right answer here?

EH

As usual TR HIT your clueless. I have a masters degree.

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It is a decision for each individual but I know where I would go---$1 million doesnt last long after taxes

Do you really know how dumb that statement is?

You can always go to college (its free, the club will pay for it) and if you hire someone to invest your money it will last many many years. However if you wanta give it away to every party stop and every family member you know then of course not.

And on top of that. Tell me where you can get a million dollar bonus before taxes with a graduate degree? There is no such thing.

The right and wrong answer is this, IF ITS ABOUT MONEY GO TO SCHOOL. IF ITS ABOUT TRYING TO BECOME A MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER SIGN A PRO CONTRACT.

Vance

I am tired of the pissing contest with you-- CLUELESS--not in any way

How dumb is the statement--LMAO--one million is at the best 750,000 after taxes--and the rest doesnt last long because most kids spend on ahome for mom and pop , cars etc

You see Vance I live in the real world-- I want kids to get an education not get a huge check that evaporates overnight-- a degree helps them for the future not just today

You preach from one pedestal and I from another-whois right Iahve no idea but nI like my side of the stage when I speak-and by the way the dogs you have biting at my heels are not big enoough to take me down

TR HIT, well stop pissing then.

Isn't getting a college degree about earning a pay check? Tell you what, figure out for me what, with the avg college degree , how many years it would take to earn $750,000.

Who cares when and how you get it. The bottom line is that you got it. Lets see, and yes this is condensending, Go play pro ball take the $750,00 give it 5 years and work your tail off. If you don't make it then get your degree its free! Now you have the money and the experience and you still have the rest of your life to get the degree.

Its amazing that kids and parents walk away from $750,000 dollars and a FREE 4 year SCHOLARSHIP.

Vance

For me it is very simple---get the college degree unless they give you upwards of 5 million

Simple as that--as I said you go your way and I go mine--but I like my way better--
there is longevity


And you and I know the college deal almost never happens for the pro player when it all ends--and by then the kid has no desire to go back school

Wonder what David Wright would say. Looks like he is having fun!

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I see morons making 50-75k per year in my business, thankfully I fire them instead of hire them............many college degreed kids get paid less than non-degree in many fields......

Well IMHO, my lil sis went to college instead of trying for pro in golf. I laugh how some one 8 years younger than me is making 4 times what I am making. I finished my degree in my thirties. I spent my teens and twenties working 60-70 hours a week while taking a few occasional classes. I really busted my hump. I made good money but it didnt substitute what a wonderful time that my sister had in college. A lot of kids who went to college that are 10 years younger than me are making plenty of money. Check out the other post about how hard its in the minors. Do you really think a player with a wife and kid are going to pound out a degree in 3-4 years? Sorry for the negativism there in that question. I have run into quite a few not quite good enough to be there guys who have no degree to speak of and their money is all gone.

Another thing about college. I do have relationships with friends that I work with over this time but I don't have college buddies. When I finished my degree everyone was older and trying like hell to get out of school. The 20 something college students are living in the world for the first time in their lives! There is no cocoon of baseball only there. So i don't blame the kid that passes on the million dollar offer he wants to try college out first.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE BASEBALL! If you can do academics and baseball, I can't see how you can't go to college. Pro Baseball isn't going anywhere. If you are good enough they will draft you! Enjoy your college life then start your pro baseball life.

You guys are talking about $1,000,000 signing bonus'. There are around 1500 kids drafted each year and you are talking about 30 or so kids per year.

Heard the other day that $1,000,000 getting 6% will earn $60,000 a year in interest. HMMM.....

IMHO, anyone who give up $1,000,000 to sign either really, really wants school, is a very top prospect who thinks they will sign for 2-3 million later or has well to do parents .

I don't knock anyone for their decisions and as others have said, it's a personal decision. Might as well be arguing over which came first, the chicken or the egg! BTW, it was the chicken .

quote:

You guys are talking about $1,000,000 signing bonus'. There are around 1500 kids drafted each year and you are talking about 30 or so kids per year.

FrankF,

I was thinking the same thing! By the way, if anyone wants to sign my son for a million dollars he is available.

Seriously, this only effects a small percentage of those drafted.

A scout will always give the argument as to why you SHOULD go pro. Unless you are a scout such as bbscout, who realizes that this is a HSBBW read by parents whose sons most likely will not get a million dollar + signing bonus.
And actually don't know why the big bucks is being discussed going pro vs college, because I doubt that it would pertain to many who come here to visit. It's more about in betweeners. So VERY few get big money, and in the end it shouldnot be about money, but what your son wants to experience. It is apparent by reading the draft rounds, that very many college players are drafted and there is NOTHING wrong with going to college with the hopes of pro ball later on, whther it be for 1 million or 25K.

By the way, many clubs will not pay out full bonus' anymore all at once, so that the prospect doesn't get up and quite if he is not happy. So for some, forget the total investment.

There are many who were lower picks who made it, many higher picks who did not. It's a crapshoot, we all know that. Remember folks, cream rises to the top, 45th or 1st round.

As far as going to college and not playing enough baseball, my son's team played approx 70 games in 5 months. He is at the cape, playing 6-7 days a week. He has more innings put in this summer than his friends that have been drafted. So as a pitcher, how much do you REALLY play? As a late round draft pick, how much do you REALLY play. In the fall he is back to workouts at a magnificent facility and in instruction and practice, with very little time off on the field. The spring practice EVERYDAY with instruction except mondays due to NCAA regulations, and a full day of classes. College players schedules are very difficult and very demanding and does not go unnoticed by the scouts watching day to day.
You speak to those who went pro after HS, you speak to those who went to college, both will tell you it was the right choice (and probably wouldno thave had it any other way) because it was the right choice for them, at the time. You make friends for a lifetime at either, on and off the field.

In the end, it's all about options, do what you have to do to have the option to choose, which means trying to do the best you can in HS, so that when the time comes you can choose between going to a Rice, Cal State, UGA, Standford, GA Tech, Clemson, UM, Oregon State, UNC, etc. vs pro early on.

For those of you that state the degree means nothing, I know of lots of college players coming out who are making VERY good money. The experience alone of trying to juggle school and a sport sets them apart from others. A college degree, or some type of school beyond HS shows years of hard work and commitment, a college degree will earn you more money in the end unless you go onto become an entrepanuer.

JMO.

Tiger Mom. You just don't get it do you. Its about chasing a dream of playing in the major leagues. Those are the players I want!

Your young you have your whole life in front of you. You can go to college when your 90. But you can't play baseball forever. There are more than 30 players who get a Million dollar signing bonus or more. Again, its not about the money. Its about putting it out there and giving it all you got and see if you can become a big leaguer. Its a risk. Those that take risk seem to succeed more in life anyway.

Its not about options either. Its about a dream. A dream of playing with the best players in the world.

Bottom line.you wanta be a big leaguer then you have to work for it!

I really do respect the scouts. Look at the BA database on previous signing bonuses. There is very few kids who don't sign. I couldn't imagine the amount of work to get such a huge percentage of signings.

I do not think your dream should die because you decide to go to College. A large number of drafted players are out of college. I personally think doing College at 25-26 is little more difficult than 18-19. Just my opinion.

Vance, I don't think YOU get it.

Only about 60% of first rounders ever see an inning in the majors. The other 40% never get there. As you go down the draft, the odds get lower and lower.

Yes, you can go to college at any age, but college isn't just about the books. Most of us remember our college days fondly for a whole host of reasons. It's a huge, positive experience that I think a boy (and today's 18-year-old is a "boy", not a man) should be quite properly reluctant to give up.

If he's a player, then after 3-4 years of college ball he'll still get his shot. As Mark Texiera put it, why ride buses in the minors when you can do your time at a nice university? The top college guys often enter the minors at AA (Ryan Zimmerman, for example). The typical high school draftee starts in rookie ball and needs a few years to get to AA, if he ever gets there at all.

Zimmerman's in the majors at age 21. Would he have gotten there sooner had he gone in the draft at age 18? Would he have gotten his $2.5 million signing bonus if he had signed at age 18? (Nope!)

These decisions have to be made on an individual basis, taking into account how good the kid really is, whether he's college material or not, what the financial options are, etc.

Andrew Miller got drafted out of high school. Had he signed, his slot money would've been about 800k. This year, he'll get about $2.4-2.5 million. Looks to me like he had three great years at UNC and came out about $1.6-1.7 million ahead and on the fast track to the bigs. Now tell me: Do you think he should have signed out of high school?

Midlo

You have to realize that Vance is locked into his own thinking---if you dont agree with him you "don't get it"-- and he claims he has a Masters and still talks like this-- lets assume he has his masters--w and he talks about education this way?

I prefer the go to college for the three years at least method and play ball at the same time---if you are not college material, and yes there are those players, you get drafted and sign.

I also agree that most kids who sign out out of HS never get to college later on even if it is part of the deal--- but that proviso is only good for so many years and doesn't last forever-- why do think that "carrot" is included--it is money most teams never have to spend

I'm going to change the question just a little, are the solution let's say.
If the Pro's Guaranteed that a player out of HS. Would get at least 6 to 7 Yr's. of playing time in 1 organization, before there sent to the Curb.
Then that might be worth forgoing College.
But only if that was your first priority.
I've heard to many stories of player's that are cut before the ink is dry on there contract. EH