Projectable vs. Work Ethic

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

Dude, respectfully, you are just living in a different era. No one cares about that shit anymore. If they did the kid would be playing pro ball because skill wise, he was close enough and he had the "heart"/desire. It's just cold hard skill/ability. Not hard to find examples of players who were paid big time and washed out because they just didn't care.

I get it that you are bitter about the way your son’s career ended. Although I don’t understand why. I would be proud if I were in your shoes. But all that is beside the point. Your above response to Bob’s post is uncalled for and out of line. And besides that you are wrong. People that make decisions that impact players lives do care about the things Bob talks about. Your post is a big swing and miss. It’s embarrassing to read.

@adbono posted:

I get it that you are bitter about the way your son’s career ended. Although I don’t understand why. I would be proud if I were in your shoes. But all that is beside the point. Your above response to Bob’s post is uncalled for and out of line. And besides that you are wrong. People that make decisions that impact players lives do care about the things Bob talks about. Your post is a big swing and miss. It’s embarrassing to read.

Maybe if he knew who Bob is, what he has accomplished in his lifetime, he would show a bit more respect.

@TPM posted:

Maybe if he knew who Bob is, what he has accomplished in his lifetime, he would show a bit more respect.

I’m pretty sure he knows who Bob is and what he has done. His mouth just overloaded his brain and he said something stupid. A lot of us have done it. I know I have.

@adbono posted:

I get it that you are bitter about the way your son’s career ended. Although I don’t understand why. I would be proud if I were in your shoes. But all that is beside the point. Your above response to Bob’s post is uncalled for and out of line. And besides that you are wrong. People that make decisions that impact players lives do care about the things Bob talks about. Your post is a big swing and miss. It’s embarrassing to read.

Not bitter. I understood the kids limitations. Nothing but proud of what he accomplished. Just understand the meritocracy and cold hard facts confronting players these days.

My son was taken under the wings, so to speak, by a scout that Bob knows very well. He did everything for my son that he could. And for that I will ever appreciate him. But as soon as it was sure that the kid would go no further he cut off all contact and would not respond to any messages.

It is what it is.

At some level your kid is nothing more than a piece of meat, I don't care how much heart he shows. If you want to believe anything more than that so be it.

Unfortunately the world is a mean place.  My son first hit 90 as a junior in HS.  He was 5'10 and around 160.   The summer after his junior year he played for one of the top programs in the state.  He was also getting looks as an infielder.   His summer team had a 6'5 lefty who was hitting 90.  The games that my son wasn't playing INF he would relieve the 6'5 kid.  The big lefty had everyone east of the Mississippi looking at him.  He would throw 3 or 4 innings....with 50+ coaches there.  He would come out....my son would go in...and was popping the mitt in warmups...but guess what....by the time he threw his first pitch the next inning there were maybe 3 coaches left....lol.   He was 88-90 all summer....with 3 pitches...but wasn't 6'5.   It drove him crazy, but fortunately he found a team to take a chance on him.   He hit 93 his sophomore year...and if it wouldn't have been for an arm injury his junior year...who knows.   Baseball is hard.   There are tens of thousands of HS kids who want to play in college....and 1000's of college kids who want to go pro.  The odds are almost ZERO.   The people who understand that going in....instead of finding out later....are much better off

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

Dude, respectfully, you are just living in a different era. No one cares about that shit anymore. If they did the kid would be playing pro ball because skill wise, he was close enough and he had the "heart"/desire. It's just cold hard skill/ability. Not hard to find examples of players who were paid big time and washed out because they just didn't care.

At the highest levels of any lucrative profession, talent evens out - everyone's got it, in abundance. What separates those who make it to the very top vs those who languish just below is desire, i.e. is someone earning $10mm+ year paying attention to the nuances that will make them and their team better? Or are they just riding their talent along and cashing their checks?

Based upon your response it's clear you've never operated at the highest level of a high-profile endeavor. Which is why what Bob says seems nonsensical to you.

Speed, TPM, Adbono, Buckeye;

Have you read "$ sign on Muscle" a scouts book. Before "metrics"

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1578150.

As a young hitter would you like a hour with Willie Mays, Edgar Martinez. What questions would a person ask?

Bob

@PTWood posted:

Serious question. How do you know that the projectable kids have no work ethic?

I'm not saying all pitchers don't have work ethic.

Lucky

ask Bob Gibson and Sandy and Don Drysdale. “Do not dig in”

read their history

Bob

As a college coach it’s very easy to see the projection of a player without work ethics. You either work hard at your craft or you perish. We have dropped many players with excellent skills just because they are a cancer to the rest of the team due to poor character and or work standards.

@lucky4three posted:

WHERE'S THE COACHES THAT Love THE Boys that have tremendous work ethic?

From what I've witnessed, working hard is the minimum requirement to have an opportunity to participate after HS. Maybe there are programs where this is not the case, but from what I've seen in juco, d1 and pro ball - you bust ass, or you're done (projectable or not).

@lucky4three posted:

I'm not saying all pitchers don't have work ethic.

I'm assuming we're talking HS here, because most ballplayers that are successful when the game becomes a job (in college and beyond) take the work seriously. It's a tough game, you've got the work hard, adapt and overcome failure, have some gifted talent and you need to be lucky - because timing has a lot to do with opportunity.

FWIW

@Master P posted:

FWIW

Master P,

Thanks for the above!

@Master P posted:

FWIW

Great info. What's the source of this?

@SpeedDemon posted:

Great info. What's the source of this?

Virtual Dugout, they have a lot of good information.

https://www.instagram.com/virtualdugout/

@Master P posted:

Virtual Dugout, they have a lot of good information.

https://www.instagram.com/virtualdugout/

thanks

Great to read 6'-6'1" leads the pack for pitchers unless that type of exaggeration is limited to hoopsters.

The data is interesting, but incomplete. You need to take the percentage of each group of the total and compare it to the percentage of men of men at that that height. (Percentage of D1 Pitchers @ specific height) - (percentage of men @ specific height) will give you the percentage of advantage or disadvantage of that height.

For instance, 6’5” and 6’6” are each approximately 0.5% of the US population, or 1% combined. If you stack the 6’5” and 6’6” bars on the chart it seems like way more than 1% of the total bars.

@Master P posted:

FWIW

This data made me curious about how this distribution correlates with the standard height distribution. My kid is 6'5" and I wondered how much (if any) that equated to an advantage (he was a 2014, so well after the fact) - this says there's roughly 5% more 6'5" D1 commits than 6'5" males in the general population in 2024.

Conversely, there are roughly 10% less 5'8" - 5'10" D1 2024 commits than like heights in the general population. Some kids will grow after 18, but given the propensity to embellish heights, it's probably pretty accurate.

I thought it's interesting that 6'2" and 6'3" are at roughly 14% more than the general population - clearly the sweet spot for D1 pitchers (at least in 2024).  

@fly996 posted:

The point is that it makes no sense for some college coaches to refuse to consider guys that are 6' and under when there are pitchers currently starring in the MLB and in the MLB Hall of Fame that are 6' and under.

Unfortunately some coaches would rather lose their way than win by compromise. For some it is an ego thing, for others they are ok with missing big to win big.

Speaking of pitcher size I came across this article. It discusses a lot more about pitcher size than just this year’s free agent class …

https://www.bostonglobe.com/20...free-agent-pitchers/