Questions About "Hands" Cues In Hitting Instruction and General Discussion of Hitting

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Originally posted by NDD:

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Originally posted by Low Finish:

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Originally posted by NDD:

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Originally posted by Low Finish:
It's a drill!

The kid was a hammer down swinger before he learned how to get the proper swing plane. I won't reveal his name, but he's on full scholarship at a major D1. The team finished just out of the top 25 last year.

What's causing his elbows to do that? He isn't rotating the shoulders before the hands get flat.
The only logical explanation is the action of his hands, wrists, and forearms.

I know it's a drill LF, I even said that. I'm sorry, but that isn't teaching "proper swing plane". That isn't what he's working on and he isn't doing it with his hands. Like I said, I think the drill has some potential, I just think it would be better if it wasn't sloppy. The rehearsals where he is dumping the barrel, IMO, don't do any good. I think he would be better served by slowing down and doing his rehearsals like he does the actual stop swing.

He is causing his elbows to do that. Not his hands. Look at his hands, they aren't doing anything except well, you know...Hold your hands like you are holding a bat. Now raise your front elbow and lower the back elbow into the slot. Don't do anything with your hands or even wrists. Come back and tell every one what happened. Where did the imaginary bat head go?

Here's a general rule of thumb, any time you think distal is controlling proximal, question it.

You CAN do that. But all you'll be able to do is "push" the bat with your arms. There's no ability to keep the bat behind the rear hip that way.

What? No, we're talking about the movement of the bat head and the fact that it isn't done with the hands. Using the hands isn't going to keep anything behind any thing. That is done with the load and connection. He's doing it with what I've been telling you all along. His hands aren't doing anything. "Push the bat with the arms"?

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Originally posted by HYP:

You are almost 100% correct.

He is using his upper front arm and the slotting of his back elbow to get his hands flat in the rehearsal swings. That is why, as you said, "he is dumping the barrel", in the rehearsal swings.

What he does different in the stop swing is to put the hands in control and look, no dump.

The hands/wrists apply immediate force. They have to in order to control the barrel. If you put the arms in control the hands will be over powered and you will get dump.

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Originally posted by NDD:
Is this directed at me?

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Originally posted by HYP:
You are almost 100% correct.

He is using his upper front arm and the slotting of his back elbow to get his hands flat in the rehearsal swings. That is why, as you said, "he is dumping the barrel", in the rehearsal swings.

What he does different in the stop swing is to put the hands in control and look, no dump.

The hands/wrists apply immediate force. They have to in order to control the barrel. If you put the arms in control the hands will be over powered and you will get dump.

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Originally posted by Low Finish:

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Originally posted by HYP:

You are almost 100% correct.

He is using his upper front arm and the slotting of his back elbow to get his hands flat in the rehearsal swings. That is why, as you said, "he is dumping the barrel", in the rehearsal swings.

What he does different in the stop swing is to put the hands in control and look, no dump.

The hands/wrists apply immediate force. They have to in order to control the barrel. If you put the arms in control the hands will be over powered and you will get dump.

You're right! This is what I've been getting at the WHOLE thread. Just you describe it better than I do...

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Originally posted by NDD:

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Originally posted by Low Finish:

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Originally posted by HYP:

You are almost 100% correct.

He is using his upper front arm and the slotting of his back elbow to get his hands flat in the rehearsal swings. That is why, as you said, "he is dumping the barrel", in the rehearsal swings.

What he does different in the stop swing is to put the hands in control and look, no dump.

The hands/wrists apply immediate force. They have to in order to control the barrel. If you put the arms in control the hands will be over powered and you will get dump.

You're right! This is what I've been getting at the WHOLE thread. Just you describe it better than I do...

ROTFL - NO IT ISN'T!!!! It may have been what you meant, it is NOT what you said. And therein lies the problem with giving advice.

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Originally posted by dusty delso:
played d1 years ago, my hitting coach held the home run record at usc with a wood bat till mark mcguire broke it with metal, he is the retired hitting coordinator for the dodgers, we've studied hitters and video clips for 30 years now and came to the same conclusion.

most great hitting instructors do not start teaching till the front foot hits the ground after the stride. before that, you simply need to get your weight back on your back foot, then shift it to the front foot to read the pitch, drop the front heel, and time your swing with the back foot slamming all your weight into a firm and rigid front foot and side hitting the ball in the hitting zone williams defined years ago. it's that simple, we make it hard.

the vast majority of amateur players are taught style from individual coaches or hitting instructors. if it works please use it, but there are uncountable differences until the front foot hits the ground, and most hitters time their swing with their front foot making them late on a good fastball and one speed hitters. lau said it great in his book, if i get to the right place at the right time it doesn't matter what he throws as long as it;s in that zone.

there is a good simple explaination on back, back, back.com by parker. might see what you think.

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Originally posted by Jimmy33:
Keep it simple guys. The load is merely a "wind-up" to throw the barrel into the incoming pitch. Hitters do not load their hands, they load their entire rear arm and back side just as any thrower in and sport would do.

Hitters that concentrate too much on loading the hands, end up moving the hands back without loading the rear elbow/arm. They also end up straightening the front arm too much during the load.

This all creates what I refer to as a very "amateurish" swing. (straight front arm w/ back elbow down during load)

The back elbow ends up slotting too soon and the hands and bat end up dragging behind.

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Originally posted by dusty delso:
if a hitter physically moves his back foot back (like sosa and fielder) is he not shifting his weight to his back foot to go forward. hank aaron, mickey mantle, willie mays and roberto clemente looked like they were running at the ball. they just did it very early. whatever you do, you have to get that weight on that back foot some how some way to hit effectively with a wood bat or the new metal. whole new ballgame.

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Originally posted by Low Finish:

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Originally posted by Jimmy33:
Keep it simple guys. The load is merely a "wind-up" to throw the barrel into the incoming pitch. Hitters do not load their hands, they load their entire rear arm and back side just as any thrower in and sport would do.

Hitters that concentrate too much on loading the hands, end up moving the hands back without loading the rear elbow/arm. They also end up straightening the front arm too much during the load.

This all creates what I refer to as a very "amateurish" swing. (straight front arm w/ back elbow down during load)

The back elbow ends up slotting too soon and the hands and bat end up dragging behind.

You don't move the hands back by pushing them back. They stay in one place as the hitter moves forward.

Yes, hitters do load their whole back side. They don't do it by shifting weight onto the back leg and then shifting it forward when it's time to swing.

They c o c k their hips so they transfer the weight back and then can transfer it forward during the swing. Far more adjustable.

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Originally posted by Jimmy33:

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Originally posted by Low Finish:

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Originally posted by Jimmy33:
Keep it simple guys. The load is merely a "wind-up" to throw the barrel into the incoming pitch. Hitters do not load their hands, they load their entire rear arm and back side just as any thrower in and sport would do.

Hitters that concentrate too much on loading the hands, end up moving the hands back without loading the rear elbow/arm. They also end up straightening the front arm too much during the load.

This all creates what I refer to as a very "amateurish" swing. (straight front arm w/ back elbow down during load)

The back elbow ends up slotting too soon and the hands and bat end up dragging behind.

You don't move the hands back by pushing them back. They stay in one place as the hitter moves forward.

Yes, hitters do load their whole back side. They don't do it by shifting weight onto the back leg and then shifting it forward when it's time to swing.

They c o c k their hips so they transfer the weight back and then can transfer it forward during the swing. Far more adjustable.

I'm talking about the rear arm during the load. Or do you not think that is important?

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Originally posted by Jimmy33:

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Originally posted by Low Finish:

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Originally posted by Jimmy33:
Keep it simple guys. The load is merely a "wind-up" to throw the barrel into the incoming pitch. Hitters do not load their hands, they load their entire rear arm and back side just as any thrower in and sport would do.

Hitters that concentrate too much on loading the hands, end up moving the hands back without loading the rear elbow/arm. They also end up straightening the front arm too much during the load.

This all creates what I refer to as a very "amateurish" swing. (straight front arm w/ back elbow down during load)

The back elbow ends up slotting too soon and the hands and bat end up dragging behind.

You don't move the hands back by pushing them back. They stay in one place as the hitter moves forward.

Yes, hitters do load their whole back side. They don't do it by shifting weight onto the back leg and then shifting it forward when it's time to swing.

They c o c k their hips so they transfer the weight back and then can transfer it forward during the swing. Far more adjustable.

I'm talking about the rear arm during the load. Or do you not think that is important?

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Originally posted by shortnquick:
There are a few that alot of young hitters do, if I had to pick one it would be landing way too high on their toe on foot strike with their front foot. Most of these hitters try to swing while their front foot toe is still about the only thing that is touching the ground. I think it happens because they are told to land softly with their front foot or they see a toe tap. This causes them to be off balance at times back and at times forwards. It also causes their front foot to open up too much, which cause the entire front side to open up.

The other fault or flaw would be always throwing their hands out for an outside pitch which causes them to use way too much top hand on outside pitches, and conversely pulling their hands in too much on an inside pitch causing themselves to be jammed. Both are because the player does not have a consistent hand path.

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Originally posted by Low Finish:

The sites at which the clips are shown are (I believe) banned sites at this one. Since I don't want to get banned, I follow the rules.

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Originally posted by RedSoxFan21:

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Originally posted by Low Finish:

The sites at which the clips are shown are (I believe) banned sites at this one. Since I don't want to get banned, I follow the rules.

Is there a link to the list of sites banned on this forum? I never knew that.