This thread made me think of Bilal as well!
RJM posted:If someone posts their kid isn’t playing D1 because of his major (STEM, etc.) that’s not an excuse. It’s a reality. For some kids trying to play D1 with a difficult major is a high risk decision on their future.
Spot on. My 2020 is an excellent student. He is ranked #1 in his class right now and scored in the top 1% on the ACT on his first attempt. He wants to major in biomedical engineering and go to medical school. Based on our research, we understand it will be near impossible to accomplish this playing in any D1 baseball program, including the Ivy League. As such, we are not even looking at D1 for baseball. The conundrum will be if he is faced with the choice of an Ivy League acceptance (no baseball) and a high academic D3 acceptance (baseball).
juergensen posted:RJM posted:If someone posts their kid isn’t playing D1 because of his major (STEM, etc.) that’s not an excuse. It’s a reality. For some kids trying to play D1 with a difficult major is a high risk decision on their future.
Spot on. My 2020 is an excellent student. He is ranked #1 in his class right now and scored in the top 1% on the ACT on his first attempt. He wants to major in biomedical engineering and go to medical school. Based on our research, we understand it will be near impossible to accomplish this playing in any D1 baseball program, including the Ivy League. As such, we are not even looking at D1 for baseball. The conundrum will be if he is faced with the choice of an Ivy League acceptance (no baseball) and a high academic D3 acceptance (baseball).
Juergensen - I'd strongly encourage you to continue to research the baseball differences between Ivy and D3. Most play the same number of games (around 40), most practice about the same number of hours, most travel about the same, and both have summer opportunities to play summer college baseball or do internships. The only difference in my experience is the talent level, talent depth, financial resources, and facilities. If your son is considering a D3 over an Ivy for baseball reasons then I think you need to look harder. There is no conundrum.
I echo Fenway (whose son had a stellar baseball career AND graduated as an engineer from an IVY).
There may be good reasons to chose a D3 over an Ivy, but baseball isn't one of those reasons. (One good reason to "move down" the academic heirarchy is it's easier (theoretically) to earn better grades for those few who are academically gifted and many grad schools' admissions are stat based - but it's no easier earning grades from, let's say, Amherst than Penn.)
Another major consideration are the scope of majors offered at larger schools. Most kids will graduate college with a different major then they planned on while in HS.
That having been said, there isn't a one-size-fits-all approach. For us, it was about not burning options while the kids matured and grew into adulthood and took the wheel. From a career perspective (at least with most careers), there's not much difference between Amherst and Harvard.
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Matty posted:This thread made me think of Bilal as well!
Reminds me more of san diego realist chicago catcher dad
Luv Baseball, Toby Keith is a country singer who tends to talk about bar stools a bit. You seem to feel life is feast or famine, success or abject poverty. That is sad. What I teach my kid is when the odds are 1 in a million, strive to be the one. I’m sure there are plenty of guys in your imaginary bar wondering if they could have made it in sports if they had just taken the chance.
Your daughter would be lucky to date/marry my kid, he’s the hardest working person I know, successful in almost everything he does.
I know that a very small portion of posters on here tend to dominate the conversation, but how many posters on here had kids not get drafted out of high school yet get drafted out of college. Probably more. They all likely were playing D1 baseball as well. That’s all I’m saying.
Just me, folks, but these comparisons must mean those were some astute people who you all just drove off.
2022OFDad posted:I know that a very small portion of posters on here tend to dominate the conversation, but how many posters on here had kids not get drafted out of high school yet get drafted out of college. Probably more. They all likely were playing D1 baseball as well. That’s all I’m saying.
That is not all you're saying, at all.
You said this, for example, which is offensive.
"This site seems to have 3 distinct flavors of parents posting on it: ... 3) parents who are making making excuses as to why their player is going to a school other than D1. "
- Parent of a D3 Player who could not be happier with his son's college
”Your daughter would be lucky to date/marry my kid, he’s the hardest working person I know, successful in almost everything he does.”
This is getting weird, especially if the OP kid is a 2022. Any way to shut this thread down?
2022OFDad posted:Just me, folks, but these comparisons must mean those were some astute people who you all just drove off.
Lol! Nah, they didn’t add much.
2022OFDad posted:Just me, folks, but these comparisons must mean those were some astute people who you all just drove off.
If people were driven off, then that is on them. The intent of members here is not to drive people off but rather to share experiences and have great discussions. Personally, I've been here for a very long time. My kid is out doing life now but coaching TB and HS. We have parents and coaches on this site who have had tremendous success. Having seen the best and worse from parents, I made a decision long ago that my child would play on her terms. I had my career. For her it was hard to accept losing or failure. We had to be careful because we wanted to make sure that she understood that softball was what she did and was not who she was. My impression from your posts would be that thinking like this ensures failure.
On a side note, will your son be a starter this year as a freshman on the varsity?
freshman.
every failure is a lesson, Coach. If you aren’t ready to fail, the. You really aren’t ready to succeed!
my boy will be just fine
2022OFDad posted:freshman.
every failure is a lesson, Coach. If you aren’t ready to fail, the. You really aren’t ready to succeed!
my boy will be just fine
Well, good luck.
2022OFDad posted:RJM posted:2022OFDad posted:RJM posted:I know kids who played in the Centennial League and NESCAC who received D1 mid major offers. They knew they weren’t pro prospects. They were more interested in the best avenue to grad school than pro ball.
They knew they would start and probably star on a D3. They chose the best combination of their perception of baseball experience and academics. I know kids who played at these schools knowing it was ok to miss practice or a game due to academics.
Here’s a simple big picture, long term example. Do you want to play D1 baseball and get a UMass degree or play D3 baseball and get a Tufts degree? If a kid picks UMass he should get his head examined.
I understand what you are saying, but to me it is taking the easy road and they gave up on themselves and their dream after their senior high school year. I don’t respect guys who go that route simply for the “BMOC” effect. I get being “realistic” and knowing most players don’t get the opportunity to play pro ball, but you can’t tell me that if players have the chance to play at a school (let’s say Ivy or Patriot League in D1) of comparable value (educationally) they wouldn’t choose one of those schools if they had an offer to play over a D3 school. They likely did not have an offer from a school of that caliber and went the route you stated.
I could argue they gave up on themselves academically taking the much less challenging academic situation.
You certainly could make that argument! This site seems to have 3 distinct flavors of parents posting on it: 1) kids are bonifide studs going to big time programs...no need to brag, kids are legit 2) Kids are going to mid major programs and parents are grateful for the chance their kids have received 3) parents who are making making excuses as to why their player is going to a school other than D1.
Thats just my observation. Yours may be different.
Let me tell you what other kinds of people post on this site : HS baseball coaches, college baseball coaches, pro scouts, umpires, hitting instructors, pitching instructors, travel team coaches & people involved in all other aspects of baseball. All of whom have been on this merry-go-round for a long time.
Ha ha thanks for the entertainment. Bilal/SD Realist version 2 is funny. Meanwhile, going back to the OP's random thought: So I was thinking about levels of college baseball today. I see many players go d3 who I feel could have gone d1. In your experiences, do the players choose d3 because they thought it was a better academic opportunity, or did they truly not have any options at any level of d1? Just a thought.
First, this is hard to quantify. You don't know how many players go D3 who could have gone D1. Some people like to brag and say, I could have gone here or there...believe me, my 2017 D3 HA son has plenty of teammates parents who have talked my ears off abut their other offers. Yet I will confess here, I do not believe everything I hear...
Having said that, it is clear (and can be proven instead of hearsay) that many players do chose D3 baseball. Whether or not they had D1 offers is irrelevant -- the key is why choose that school? There could be zillions of reasons, including the fact they wanted to keep playing and it was their only option or they could have had multiple offers at many levels and still have chosen that school. Posts above have talked about fit, about academics, about finances, about certain majors incl STEM, weather, size, about social dynamics, etc. Even non athletes consider many of these when choosing a school! But the baseball player layers in that other factor of baseball. Will they ever see the field? Does the school over recruit? Is it better to go pro now or go to school (if drafted of course)? What about the coaches? The field and facilities? The conference? The track record of the draft? The funding of the program? So many more questions, these are just a sample.
I can only answer for my guy. He had ample opportunities as an excellent student and a talented baseball player. It was not a "better" academic opportunity because he basically eliminated many schools from consideration (at D1 and D3 levels). At the end of the day, he chose to go where he felt he would succeed both 40 years from now as well as during his 4 years, and many many many factors entered his decision making process.
Therefore my advice for you BaseballComesThird, after giving you lots of advice about prep schools and repeating a year etc, is do not get hung up on D1 or D3. Get stronger, try your best in school and on the field and see where your recruiting takes you, without getting hung up on labels or levels. Find YOUR fit and don't worry so much about anything else!
juergensen posted:RJM posted:If someone posts their kid isn’t playing D1 because of his major (STEM, etc.) that’s not an excuse. It’s a reality. For some kids trying to play D1 with a difficult major is a high risk decision on their future.
Spot on. My 2020 is an excellent student. He is ranked #1 in his class right now and scored in the top 1% on the ACT on his first attempt. He wants to major in biomedical engineering and go to medical school. Based on our research, we understand it will be near impossible to accomplish this playing in any D1 baseball program, including the Ivy League. As such, we are not even looking at D1 for baseball. The conundrum will be if he is faced with the choice of an Ivy League acceptance (no baseball) and a high academic D3 acceptance (baseball).
With that specific major, your son should check out UC San Diego. On the baseball side, moving up to D1 (Big West conference) in 2020.
2022OFDad posted:I know that a very small portion of posters on here tend to dominate the conversation, but how many posters on here had kids not get drafted out of high school yet get drafted out of college. Probably more. They all likely were playing D1 baseball as well. That’s all I’m saying.
Some kids don’t get drafted out of high school because they are adamant they are going to college. A friend/former teammate’s son is one such player. He wasn’t drafted out of high school. He started freshman year at a top ranked program. Junior year he went in the first round. He’s in his 7th MLB season now.
Other players say they won’t sign, get drafted late and get offered top round money (David Price, 19th round out of high school by the Dodgers). This is harder now with slot money and team allocation limits.
Other kids are late bloomers who move up to draftable in college. But 84% of MLB players come from the first ten rounds. These players were mostly prospects coming out of high school.
I’m still not sure what any of this has to do with the original poster’s comment on marginal D1 prospects versus D3. Marginal D1 prospects aren’t likely to turn into MLB players with a handful of exceptions. It’s typically late blooming pitchers.
2022OFDad posted:I respect a player who puts themselves into the most competitive environment they can in order to sharpen that edge, you know? Just the way I personally feel. You don’t have to agree, but it’s how we do things in my family.
You should move to Florida, SoCal, Texas or the Atlanta area. Just so you can put your son in the most competitive environment possible for baseball. I'd recommend the Trinity League in SoCal -- and if he's a multisport athlete he could sharpen his competitive edge at one of their football programs -- but I'm sure there are other leagues that could fit the bill.
2022OFDad posted:CoachB25 posted:2022OFDad posted:RJM posted:I know kids who played in the Centennial League and NESCAC who received D1 mid major offers. They knew they weren’t pro prospects. They were more interested in the best avenue to grad school than pro ball.
They knew they would start and probably star on a D3. They chose the best combination of their perception of baseball experience and academics. I know kids who played at these schools knowing it was ok to miss practice or a game due to academics.
Here’s a simple big picture, long term example. Do you want to play D1 baseball and get a UMass degree or play D3 baseball and get a Tufts degree? If a kid picks UMass he should get his head examined.
I understand what you are saying, but to me it is taking the easy road and they gave up on themselves and their dream after their senior high school year. I don’t respect guys who go that route simply for the “BMOC” effect. I get being “realistic” and knowing most players don’t get the opportunity to play pro ball, but you can’t tell me that if players have the chance to play at a school (let’s say Ivy or Patriot League in D1) of comparable value (educationally) they wouldn’t choose one of those schools if they had an offer to play over a D3 school. They likely did not have an offer from a school of that caliber and went the route you stated.
Really? So you know what their dream was? Really, you don't respect guys ...? Who the hell are you? If ignorance is bliss, you're as happy as can be. I know a lot of guys who went D-II or D-III for reasons other than to be professional athletes. In fact, of the players who have played for me that have gone on to play professionally, I have more who went D-II than went D-I. Finally, if you were a player and academically qualified for academic scholarships for a school like Washington University in St. Louis, you'd have to consider that.
Easy there, Coach! Don’t take it personally! The numbers for the draft historically just dont support what you are saying. There are 8X more players drafted out of D1 than D2. So what I am saying is if a kid has the desire to play professionally, playing D1 ball is a better route to take. I know there are good D2 and D3 programs, but where the rubber meets the road the path to take to get to the pros is D1. The numbers simply bear that out. I said that the financial picture may play a factor, we agree there.
I respect a player who puts themselves into the most competitive environment they can in order to sharpen that edge, you know? Just the way I personally feel. You don’t have to agree, but it’s how we do things in my family.
So your son was recruited to play for an ISL (ie, BBN, Thayer), a Catholic private (ie , Xaverian, St John’s Prep) or Avon Farms in CT came calling? If not, your son should try to walk on and place himself in the most competitive situation.
When choosing a D3 over a a D1. Which school is showing love? If playing professionally is your goal, which gets you in the best summer programs? If your choosing between a marginal D1 and a D3, you are provably not a prospect. You may need more time, to grow or perfect your craft. You also need to be seen.
Which school gives you the best chance? To be seen, you have to play. Playing in the summer against good competition is very important, when your spring season is against D3 or lower D1 competition. Which school has the best summer connections. Where do their players play in the summer?
Yes more players get drafted from D1. However what schools do they come from. I can pretty much guarantee there are D2 and D3 schools that have more players drafted then many D1's.
You have to compare school to school, not just level. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.
Go44Dad, That was "slap yer knee" good!
2022OFDad posted:The level chooses the player. If a “D1 caliber player” chooses to go play at a D3 program, well that is probably because they are a D3 player.
Yeah, no.
I officiate at all three levels of NCAA baseball. There are D1-caliber players at the D3 level because baseball doesn't pay the tuition like football or basketball can, and for most players, it will never pay the bills once they graduate.
Any player playing D3 ball because they could not get a scholarship offer to play D1 or D2 baseball is, by definition, a D3 player. This is not a slam on the player. In my experience, I have never seen a family choose between D1 and D3 offers and take the D3. Not once. Just relating what I have seen. Sure there are plenty of guys who can play ball playing D3. I just find the argument of turning down a D1 slot to play D3 ball to be something I have never seen a family do. Not one.
2022OFDad posted:Any player playing D3 ball because they could not get a scholarship offer to play D1 or D2 baseball is, by definition, a D3 player. This is not a slam on the player. In my experience, I have never seen a family choose between D1 and D3 offers and take the D3. Not once. Just relating what I have seen. Sure there are plenty of guys who can play ball playing D3. I just find the argument of turning down a D1 slot to play D3 ball to be something I have never seen a family do. Not one.
It happens. I don't know how often, but it does happen.
If you are being offered by D1s and D3s they are most likely lower level D1s with very few, if any scholarships. Assuming the D1 and the D3 are both affordable, many will choose the best school as they probably should. I think when you start considering D3 schools you should base the decision solely on academics and not worry about how good the baseball is.
BishopLeftiesDad posted:Yes more players get drafted from D1. However what schools do they come from. I can pretty much guarantee there are D2 and D3 schools that have more players drafted then many D1's.
You have to compare school to school, not just level. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.
This is partially true. There are some D2s that would smoke some P5 schools and get 3-4 kids drafted each year. But only about a dozen or so kids get drafted from D3 every year, almost all of which are pitchers. So yes a D3 with 1 or 2 players drafted would be more than a D1 with none, but there aren't really D3 powerhouses producing draft talent every year.
2022OFDad posted:Any player playing D3 ball because they could not get a scholarship offer to play D1 or D2 baseball is, by definition, a D3 player. This is not a slam on the player. In my experience, I have never seen a family choose between D1 and D3 offers and take the D3. Not once. Just relating what I have seen. Sure there are plenty of guys who can play ball playing D3. I just find the argument of turning down a D1 slot to play D3 ball to be something I have never seen a family do. Not one.
First off, the plural of anecdotes is not data. I know of several that have done this.
Next, no one knows everything that happens in other players' lives. In addition, this may be even more true in your case, and please do not take this personally, because if you're as brusk about your thoughts on the matter in real life as you are here, you have probably been intentionally left out of informal conversations of choices such as these.
2022OFDAD says: Any player playing D3 ball because they could not get a scholarship offer to play D1 or D2 baseball is, by definition, a D3 player. This is not a slam on the player. In my experience, I have never seen a family choose between D1 and D3 offers and take the D3. Not once. Just relating what I have seen. Sure there are plenty of guys who can play ball playing D3. I just find the argument of turning down a D1 slot to play D3 ball to be something I have never seen a family do. Not one.
Sir, you are just plain WRONG. You are really stirring the pot! Do you really think that all D1 players BY DEFINITION are better than all D3 players? There is way more overlap than you think.
How many D1 players transfer? Idk but it is a very high number. Kids get recruited and then they show up and reality hits them in the face. Maybe it is better to play than be on the bench. Maybe it is better to think about where your degree comes from than put all your eggs in the MLB basket.
Moreover, there are NUMEROUS families on this very board who had a son who chose D3. You are basing your assumptions on your (IMHO limited) experience. There are several threads on this board which have discussed this. Many many D3s offer more academic money than a 25% scholarship at a D1. And some D1 schools as you hopefully know do not have scholarships. So your quote would mean a player who turns down an Ivy for a NESCAC or Centennial Conference school is by definition a D3 player. Just not true.
We know many kids, not just playing baseball, who chose the D3 combination of academics and athletics over D1 scholarship offers.
How many D1 players transfer? Idk but it is a very high number. Kids get recruited and then they show up and reality hits them in the face.
Three or four years ago I read the number is 50%. It’s due to the kid not really being D1 material or lack of opportunity. In any given year only 18-20 players (of 35) are playing enough to have an impact on the season.
2022OFDAD there are many players who choose d3 over d1. Just two kids alone on my high school team last year that were seniors turned down offers to play d1. One had an offer from Holy Cross and one had one from Seton Hall. One went Nescac and one went to Hopkins. Some people have different priorities, in life and baseball. If it were up to me, I would take the D1 offer that my friends got, however you never really know what you would actually do until you get it. At the end of the day, you pick what is most important to you. It doesn’t make the player less because he went d3. I know someone who is in the pros out of Pomona-Pitzer. You never know.
juergensen posted:RJM posted:If someone posts their kid isn’t playing D1 because of his major (STEM, etc.) that’s not an excuse. It’s a reality. For some kids trying to play D1 with a difficult major is a high risk decision on their future.
Spot on. My 2020 is an excellent student. He is ranked #1 in his class right now and scored in the top 1% on the ACT on his first attempt. He wants to major in biomedical engineering and go to medical school. Based on our research, we understand it will be near impossible to accomplish this playing in any D1 baseball program, including the Ivy League. As such, we are not even looking at D1 for baseball. The conundrum will be if he is faced with the choice of an Ivy League acceptance (no baseball) and a high academic D3 acceptance (baseball).
Not true. STEM possible in Ivy League and there are STEM majors on most teams. More poli-sci, econ majors but look at the rosters. Son played with a student who is now in med school, earning a bio related degree. Son majors in chemical engineering. Difficult, yes. Impossible no. The tough part for many is whether to keep playing baseball in the summer, or taking an internship. Some Ivies put more emphasis on summer ball (especially position guys) than others.
I read recently that 59% of D1offers have no athletic $ offered if this is true then you can understand why a kid might choose D2 or D3 it's the old adage go where you are loved! If the program is not willing to invest in you, then what are your chances to succeed anyway and by the way a 25%offer to a position player is love big money goes to big arms that's just baseball! Every player has different reasons but they all want to extend baseball beyond highschool and that dedication is very commendable! For the record my house falls into the blessed for tho opportunity category 😁!!
Ripken Fan posted:juergensen posted:RJM posted:If someone posts their kid isn’t playing D1 because of his major (STEM, etc.) that’s not an excuse. It’s a reality. For some kids trying to play D1 with a difficult major is a high risk decision on their future.
Spot on. My 2020 is an excellent student. He is ranked #1 in his class right now and scored in the top 1% on the ACT on his first attempt. He wants to major in biomedical engineering and go to medical school. Based on our research, we understand it will be near impossible to accomplish this playing in any D1 baseball program, including the Ivy League. As such, we are not even looking at D1 for baseball. The conundrum will be if he is faced with the choice of an Ivy League acceptance (no baseball) and a high academic D3 acceptance (baseball).
Not true. STEM possible in Ivy League and there are STEM majors on most teams. More poli-sci, econ majors but look at the rosters. Son played with a student who is now in med school, earning a bio related degree. Son majors in chemical engineering. Difficult, yes. Impossible no. The tough part for many is whether to keep playing baseball in the summer, or taking an internship. Some Ivies put more emphasis on summer ball (especially position guys) than others.
In addition to Ripken Fan's son, and the others mentioned earlier in the thread, I know a couple as well. That's not to say it is common, or by any means easy, but it can be done. Takes a very determined and disciplined young man to pull it off successfully.
Catchdad44 posted:I read recently that 59% of D1offers have no athletic $ offered if this is true then you can understand why a kid might choose D2 or D3 it's the old adage go where you are loved! If the program is not willing to invest in you, then what are your chances to succeed anyway and by the way a 25%offer to a position player is love big money goes to big arms that's just baseball! Every player has different reasons but they all want to extend baseball beyond highschool and that dedication is very commendable! For the record my house falls into the blessed for tho opportunity category 😁!!
Curious as to where they got those numbers from. An offer without scholarship money is not an offer. 59% of rostered players would probably make more sense, but those numbers still seem pretty high.
2022OFDad posted:Any player playing D3 ball because they could not get a scholarship offer to play D1 or D2 baseball is, by definition, a D3 player. This is not a slam on the player. In my experience, I have never seen a family choose between D1 and D3 offers and take the D3. Not once. Just relating what I have seen. Sure there are plenty of guys who can play ball playing D3. I just find the argument of turning down a D1 slot to play D3 ball to be something I have never seen a family do. Not one.
There are 300 D1 baseball programs. I would say most are not great baseball, and most are not great schools. Many kids looking at the big picture would be wise to pick a D3 over a D1 that is not strong in baseball and/or academics.
I can’t imagine a bright kid choosing 16-40 D1 Nowhere State U from the Obscure Athletic Conference over a ranked high academic D3. Chances are the ranked D3 can beat Nowhere State U with their best pitcher in the mound.
Nowhere State has little to offer the kid’s future. The high academic D3 offers a bright future.
Does anyone else here think 2022 needs to be a “Realist?”
Well, I'm sorry I missed all the action til tonight! Too busy researching TVs I'm not going to buy.
The comment that got a rise out of me was the one about three types of posters on the site. I guess I'd fall into the category of making excuses for my son not being at a D1. Except I'm not sure saying "My son wasn't a good enough player to be recruited by an Ivy League school to play ball so he went to the highest academic D3 he could find," is actually making an excuse. I think it's more an example of proactively dealing with the cards life dealt him. I don't mind being in that category, so can there be four types of posters on the site?
I want to affirm the poster(s) who discussed "fit" either directly or implicitly. Understanding a kid is a D3 fit doesn't mean the kid's a failure. Or, maybe it does. Oh, man.
Generalizations almost always get someone upset, but it comes down to whether someone wants to make a CAREER of baseball, or whether it's a hobby to them. Want to feed your kids on the field? or would you rather feed them from a desk? It's disingenuous to say that D3 ball is equal to D1 ball. If you are going to college with the goal of getting an education, you probably have already given up on baseball. Failure is in the eyes of the beholder.
2019OF posted:Generalizations almost always get someone upset, but it comes down to whether someone wants to make a CAREER of baseball, or whether it's a hobby to them. Want to feed your kids on the field? or would you rather feed them from a desk? It's disingenuous to say that D3 ball is equal to D1 ball. If you are going to college with the goal of getting an education, you probably have already given up on baseball. Failure is in the eyes of the beholder.
There are a lot of ways to make a career out of baseball besides being a player. Everyone's playing days eventually come to an end anyway - and its usually way sooner than the player expects or has planned for. Its often due to injury or something else that is unforeseen. When that happens you best be prepared to go on with the next chapter of life. To say that "if you are going to college to get an education you probably have already given up on baseball" may be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read in any thread on this site. And that is really saying something !