Recruiting the "mid-tier" player

cabbagedad posted:

I think baseball teaches a lot of the lessons necessary specific to the mid-tier player in the midst of the recruiting process...

You will fail (get a lot of "no"s and no response) many times.  You gotta be able to flush and get the next one, each time giving full effort and expecting to succeed.

If you keep working hard (and smart), good things will happen.  

Get good "coaching" regarding your strengths and weaknesses.  (get honest, qualified neutral party to evaluate so you are fishing in the right pond).

Passion and persistence matter.

Don't just step in the box and hope good things happen.  Have a good, focused plan.

See the whole field.

Get a lot of quality reps - one of the most common mistakes I see with mid-tier players/parents in the recruiting process is the tendency to just follow one lead and wait.  There is a little bit of interest shown or a plan to attend a camp at a future date and they think that their work is done for now and they should just wait to see what comes of that one interested party or that one event.  Once the player is in recruiting mode, he has to continue to hit from all angles, expecting those several "no's", no responses and string-alongs and having several other logs on the fire.  

As usual cabbagedad has some good stuff here.  " Don't just step in the box and hope good things happen.  Have a good, focused plan."  I asked my son this question during his Jr. college year.  Aside from the usual depends on runners on base, outs, score, inning ,pitcher's best pitch, etc., he said his mentality is " I'm better than the pitcher, the question isn't if I'm going to hit the ball, rather it is how hard I am going to hit it, how far it goes, and how many bases I will get.  If the pitcher gets me out, hats off to him, but most likely I swung at a marginal or bad pitch/strike (sorry all pitchers and dads out there).  A bit cocky? - yes.  Point is all hitters should have that type of confidence when stepping in the box, and all pitchers think and believe the opposite.  I've seen many hitters as they stand in the box their body language seems to say I hope I get a hit, or I hope I don't K.  Good luck...

cabbagedad posted:

I think baseball teaches a lot of the lessons necessary specific to the mid-tier player in the midst of the recruiting process...

You will fail (get a lot of "no"s and no response) many times.  You gotta be able to flush and get the next one, each time giving full effort and expecting to succeed.

If you keep working hard (and smart), good things will happen.  

Get good "coaching" regarding your strengths and weaknesses.  (get honest, qualified neutral party to evaluate so you are fishing in the right pond).

Passion and persistence matter.

Don't just step in the box and hope good things happen.  Have a good, focused plan.

See the whole field.

Get a lot of quality reps - one of the most common mistakes I see with mid-tier players/parents in the recruiting process is the tendency to just follow one lead and wait.  There is a little bit of interest shown or a plan to attend a camp at a future date and they think that their work is done for now and they should just wait to see what comes of that one interested party or that one event.  Once the player is in recruiting mode, he has to continue to hit from all angles, expecting those several "no's", no responses and string-alongs and having several other logs on the fire.  

Cabbage - I like your write-up, particularly the "expecting those several "no's", no responses, and string-alongs".  

I think I can honestly say that Ryno was in a pretty good position as a recruit, but he dealt with all of the above along the way.  I agree that parents/recruits should expect some of this activity, and do not let it get you down.  Keep working to get better, researching, making contacts, and putting yourself in front of the right decision makers.  

I think people should recognize that sometimes encouragement can make all the difference for a young man.  Sometimes the mid-tier (or lower tier) prospect becomes the top-shelf prospect with time, patience, perseverance, and willingness to outwork the competition among other things. 

Maybe someone is classified as mid-tier now but three years from now after a college weight training program and experience, you might not even recognize that kid who has now grown into a young man.  Sometimes the tortoise ends up beating the hare.  Sometimes the ugly duckling becomes the beautiful swan.

ClevelandDad posted:

I think people should recognize that sometimes encouragement can make all the difference for a young man.  Sometimes the mid-tier (or lower tier) prospect becomes the top-shelf prospect with time, patience, perseverance, and willingness to outwork the competition among other things. 

Maybe someone is classified as mid-tier now but three years from now after a college weight training program and experience, you might not even recognize that kid who has now grown into a young man.  Sometimes the tortoise ends up beating the hare.  Sometimes the ugly duckling becomes the beautiful swan.

What may be "mid-tier" at College X may be a "top-tier" at College Y.  Keep looking and do what you can to find "Y".  

I know someone who went into the recruiting consulting business riding the baseball reputation of his two oldest sons. He charged $1,000 per client for advice. 

One of his client’s was one the son of a very good friend. I had mentored the kid in baseball and coached him until 17u when our kids went in different directions. 

The consultant knew little of the kid’s talent. He helped the kid plan how he was going to get in front of Stanford and Vanderbilt. After all, he was all conference. I almost lost a friend when I told the mother the kid had D3 potential. He should be going to Head First, not East Cobb and the Stanford Camp.

Later in time the mother thanked me for responding faster than their paid consultant. She asked how I knew what the consultant knew. I told her experience from softball recruiting (older kid) and if I don’t know, hsbaseballweb where there’s always at least one person who has experienced anything you can throw at the board. 

The kid played at an top academic D3.

RJM posted:

I know someone who went into the recruiting consulting business riding the baseball reputation of his two oldest sons. He charged $1,000 per client for advice. 

One of his client’s was one the son of a very good friend. I had mentored the kid in baseball and coached him until 17u when our kids went in different directions. 

The consultant knew little of the kid’s talent. He helped the kid plan how he was going to get in front of Stanford and Vanderbilt. After all, he was all conference. I almost lost a friend when I told the mother the kid had D3 potential. He should be going to Head First, not East Cobb and the Stanford Camp.

Later in time the mother thanked me for responding faster than their paid consultant. She asked how I knew what the consultant knew. I told her experience from softball recruiting (older kid) and if I don’t know, hsbaseballweb where there’s always at least one person who has experienced anything you can throw at the board. 

The kid played at an top academic D3.

I think this is THE biggest issue that people have when they start the recruitment process.  Sure, if you're starting with a freshman, things can change...height, weight, speed, etc, but you need to have a "baseline" to start with.  When my son was a sophomore he was small, but was throwing hard on the mound and starting at SS on varsity.  He wanted to play in college...and had already been told by a local D3 coach that "he would take him right now"  My son wanted to play at a D1...both because he thought that's where he would be challenged the most and the fact that he wanted to attend a bigger campus than most D3's provided. 

I went to watch a game between two D1's close to here...actually one of them was the school he ended up at.  They were mid-pack in the league and playing the top team in the league. Sunday afternoon, 3rd game of the series.  Game ended up 13-11 or something like that....30 hits, 6 errors...and just not what you would consider to be a "good game"...lol.  Ok, I knew this wasn't typical and that things happen, but after that game, I went home...sat down with my son and said "I think you can play at that level".  I really felt that having coached a good 15U/16U team for two years and knowing quite a few kids who had gone on to college that I could "objectively" make the observation...and felt comfortable doing it.  If you don't, find someone who does....knowing that you might not like the answer.  My best friend's son (also a HS teammate of my son) wanted his son to try to play D1.  It was tough because he would ask me my thoughts.  I did my best to "answer without really answering" as I wanted to keep him as a friend lol.  His son eventually did go to walk on tryouts...realized what he was up against and told his dad he was done with baseball.  His dad was crushed, but I think eventually he understood. 

My son played at a mid level D1.  the catcher was 6'2 265 .. he was honored to be on foulball "all buffet team"  the firstbase man was 6'4 240...  the middle infielders had plus arms,  good feet and had that 100 yard stare.  The CF was on ESPN a few times for plays he made with his world class speed. as a team they hit like 60 homruns all the pitchers except one were 6'2 to 6'8  throwing 90 was common.....  a mid-tier team....

Its really hard to get a D1 to look at you.... how about getting a D1 coach to start you in a game?  trying going 0 for 10  or walking a couple batters....

Also, high school stats mean nothing.... the only thing that matters are your baseball skills and grades that's it.

Advice, get an assessment from someone who does not care if your son plays baseball or not. someone who is not your friend... your high school coach or maybe even your travel coach. 

Be brutally honest with your son... I understand the dream.... but change that dream to a "goal"  and you will end up in a better position when baseball is over.   Take your son to mid major games... ask a older travel team if you can fill-in in a scrimmage.  and then ask yourself can play at this level with these guys , do I really want to play college baseball ?  or is chasing the dream what is really going on? 

For those 2019 looking for a D1... the time is getting close.  Most D1 mid-major schools may take a few more high school players, but they are already on their list.  and the rest will be transfers and juco's . 

i am not bashing D2 D3 etc.... mine have played Juco, D1 and D3.. I played the recruiting game at all levels.... recruiting is a cruel biz anyone that who like honest advice PM me.

Good stuff and thanks Backdorslider. I appreciate the candor. I don't think that my son has ever used the word "dream," that's more my verbiage and used interchangeably (probably incorrectly) with goal. The end of his playing baseball will be a sad day but it won't be the end of the world for him or for his mother and I. We're just enjoying the ride while we can. The game has provided so many positive experiences, and so much joy, that he will carry with him the rest of his life that there is no way any regrets could overshadow that, even if it ended today.

Maybe I should have been clearer in my initial post that when I refer to "mid-tier." I'm not talking about mid-tier D1 or mid-tier D3 or whatever. I'm talking about the kid who maybe isn't the second coming of Bryce Harper but is a solid top/mid order three or four year high school varsity starter, conference standout in a good conference of high enrollment schools, who is smart, hard-working, motivated, coordinated, and coachable. I'm talking about my kid basically which is why I started the thread There is somewhere for him but it is hard, if not impossible, for me to be objective because I see what he keeps up with - how hard he works - all the events, uniforms, practices, games, 6am workouts, tests, quizzes, AP class load and homework, volunteer hours, fundraising events, tutoring, private lessons, cages, tee work in the back yard, coach emails, camps, showcases, etc. etc....and this is at 16 years of age and he's been carrying that on for two and a half years at least! So of course I think he's the greatest thing ever. There is no way I could have done all that at his age so I'm just trying to be there for him in whatever way I can. I'm a proud dad no matter what he decides or how all this works out! I just appreciate all the advice and suggestions I've received from this post. This has been truly inspiring, encouraging, humbling, and informative. Thanks folks!

bacdorslider posted:

... I understand the dream.... but change that dream to a "goal"  and you will end up in a better position when baseball is over.   ...

YES - This is one of the huge challenges for just about every kid and family.  99% of kids looking to play past HS have some version of "the dream".  MLB and/or big time college ball are the visual, at least early on in HS.  So, by the time the player makes that transition from dream to goal and the realistic goal is something other than MLB or P5 D1, the window can be very short for putting together a comprehensive recruiting plan.

Here's another huge challenge ...  

Trust in Him offered an excellent piece of advise...

"What may be "mid-tier"(player) at College X may be a "top-tier"(player) at College Y.  Keep looking and do what you can to find "Y"."

While that sounds straight forward and logical, the problem here is that most kids who have made it to HS and still have "the dream" or "the goal" are very competitive and their nature is to want to be the best, play the best and beat the best.  So, they are going to be mentally wired to reach. 

So, advising them to target a playing level that is possibly not the highest level they could compete goes against every fiber of their being.  I still don't know the perfect answer to this one.

tequila posted:

.................................................................

Maybe I should have been clearer in my initial post that when I refer to "mid-tier." I'm not talking about mid-tier D1 or mid-tier D3 or whatever. I'm talking about the kid who maybe isn't the second coming of Bryce Harper but is a solid top/mid order three or four year high school varsity starter, conference standout in a good conference of high enrollment schools, who is smart, hard-working, motivated, coordinated, and coachable. I'm talking about my kid basically which is why I started the thread There is somewhere for him but it is hard, if not impossible, for me to be objective because I see what he keeps up with - how hard he works - all the events, uniforms, practices, games, 6am workouts, tests, quizzes, AP class load and homework, volunteer hours, fundraising events, tutoring, private lessons, cages, tee work in the back yard, coach emails, camps, showcases, etc. etc....and this is at 16 years of age and he's been carrying that on for two and a half years at least! So of course I think he's the greatest thing ever. There is no way I could have done all that at his age so I'm just trying to be there for him in whatever way I can. I'm a proud dad no matter what he decides or how all this works out! I just appreciate all the advice and suggestions I've received from this post. This has been truly inspiring, encouraging, humbling, and informative. Thanks folks!

Tequila - You're doing all the right things at the right time.  Believe it or not, your son sounds like many that pass through HSBBWeb.   He's working hard in the classroom and on the baseball field and trying to find his college niche.   If you think about, and follow some of the advice provided it will open your eyes and his eyes.   I'll be the first to admit I knew very little about college baseball recruiting when my oldest son first started getting noticed and contacted by college coaches   It was difficult to provide guidance when his father didn't know what the options were.   That changed quickly as I immersed myself in the topic and did a lot of listening to what he wanted to do with his college career.   He changed his goals a few times along the way, but I was there with the answers as well as the important questions to ask.

You have an open invitation from many to help you.  My advice is to take advantage of their wisdom and experiences.  IMHO, the first thing you need to do is to sit down with him and discuss what he sees as his college, financial, and college baseball future.  Start there.  Ask questions and begin to formulate a plan with him.  There are many threads and posts about developing a plan and changing plans.  Work with him, and give him ownership of the goals and tasks.   Trust me, he will gain confidence over time.  My oldest kid is an introvert.  He says very little around people he knows.  When he was a college freshmen, his teammates thought he was mute.   I'm not kidding.  However, a funny thing happened during his college recruitment... he became downright chatty with college coaches because he had to.  These young men catch on quickly that if you want something real bad, you got to take ownership.  it is not just my son but many other recruits that have gone through this process.  I helped my son almost 8 years ago, and learned enough to write a book.  So I'll stop there.

Feel free to reach out if you have questions.  We're all here to help.

fenwaysouth posted:

tequila posted:

 He says very little around people he knows.  When he was a college freshmen, his teammates thought he was mute.   I'm not kidding.  However, a funny thing happened during his college recruitment... he became downright chatty with college coaches because he had to.  These young men catch on quickly that if you want something real bad, you got to take ownership.

Funny, when my son was offered...he called the RC.    It was just after a travel game on a Friday morning.  Coach had watched him throw the night before and had emailed later night and asked him to call the next day.  I was standing next to him.  Obviously I only heard son's side of the convo....he's how it went.

Hi coach....yep, we won, yep, uh huh, ok, yes, yes they're good with it, yes, ok bye.

Offered and accepted.   Total time approximately a minute and half lol

Fortunately now as a junior, he has gotten much better at carrying on a conversation

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Hi coach....yep, we won, yep, uh huh, ok, yes, yes they're good with it, yes, ok bye.

Offered and accepted.   Total time approximately a minute and half lol

That's classic! I assume, prior to that conversation, he knew he wanted to go there and on what terms he would accept?

tequila posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Hi coach....yep, we won, yep, uh huh, ok, yes, yes they're good with it, yes, ok bye.

Offered and accepted.   Total time approximately a minute and half lol

That's classic! I assume, prior to that conversation, he knew he wanted to go there and on what terms he would accept?

Lol...yes, we had visited the school 2 days before.  He was actually expecting an offer on the visit but it didn't happen.  Coach wanted to see him throw one more time.  We basically knew what the offer would be...he liked the school and we were good with him accepting.  

After he hung up I looked at him and here was our convo

Me: well??

Son: yeah he wanted me

Me: ...and???

Son: I told him I'd come

Me:...and???

Son:....and what?  Oh, you want to know what I got?

... is a solid top/mid order three or four year high school varsity starter, conference standout in a good conference of high enrollment schools, who is smart, hard-working, motivated, coordinated, and coachable. 

This really doesn’t nail it down. He could still be anywhere from a D1 to a very competitive D3 prospect. Take all the kids who can play. Your son is one of them. Now it gets sliced and diced into projectability at the next level. It’s starts being about foot speed, arm strength, soft hands, foot work, bat speed, exit velocity, etc.. Then there are coaches who are prejudiced against players of a certain size at certain positions. 

As mentioned it sometimes takes having someone not afraid to offend you or doesn’t have skin in the game who is willing to give you the truth. Even then a kid might prove the evaluator wrong. 

The biggest mistake I believe recruits make is passing up programs that really want them to be a second or third tier recruit at their dream school. 

RJM posted:

This really doesn’t nail it down. He could still be anywhere from a D1 to a very competitive D3 prospect. Take all the kids who can play. Your son is one of them. Now it gets sliced and diced into projectability at the next level.

Exactly what I'm getting at RJM. You hit it on the head and that is basically what I stated in my very first post when I said ...by all accounts that I've been given (coaches and others in the business) he could potentially make teams at all levels of college baseball. It doesn't nail it down because it isn't "nail-down-able." The category you term as "...all the kids that can play," it is broad, varying, and dependent upon umpteen factors that we have to somehow deal with during the process and hope you were exposed to the right people, were assessed by the right [unbiased and knowledgeable] third party, all while trying to constantly improve academically and athletically. I am fairly certain of one thing; he wants to play and contribute as soon as he can so that at least helps his choices narrow some.

Your response, I believe, highlights the very essence of the reason I started the thread. It is a tricky road for players in this range and, I'll daresay, more complicated and requires more effort because there is a "selling yourself" portion that the top level talent doesn't seem to have as much of. Add the question of DI/DII/DIII/NAIA/Juco in the mix and you've got a redwood to whittle into a toothpick that you may never complete. Good times!

In the big picture of the journey it’s good times. It ultimately works out if the kid wants it. But I sometimes believe college sports recruiting was the driving force behind the invention of antacid tablets.

How about this for a recruiting journey.  A friend's son (2019) is committed to a well known midwest university for baseball...has been for almost a year.  Kid is a phenomenal athlete and had an unbelievable year on the football field as a WR/KR.  Football coach at the school he's committed to really wants him to do both...meaning full ride for football   That option has been in the works for awhile....and they are considering it.   A B1G visited him at school today and offered for football.  Another B1G that had offered him for baseball has football guys coming to see him tomorrow.....then an ACC school on Thursday and the football guys from the school he's committed to on Friday.  At this point, he's still thinking that he's gonna stick with baseball only...but the options are definitely tempting him

I guess if I were him I'd love to be in the position to have to be making those decisions!

Buckeye 2015 posted:

How about this for a recruiting journey.  A friend's son (2019) is committed to a well known midwest university for baseball...has been for almost a year.  Kid is a phenomenal athlete and had an unbelievable year on the football field as a WR/KR.  Football coach at the school he's committed to really wants him to do both...meaning full ride for football   That option has been in the works for awhile....and they are considering it.   A B1G visited him at school today and offered for football.  Another B1G that had offered him for baseball has football guys coming to see him tomorrow.....then an ACC school on Thursday and the football guys from the school he's committed to on Friday.  At this point, he's still thinking that he's gonna stick with baseball only...but the options are definitely tempting him

When it comes to B1G it’s an easy choice. If they wear Green and White, go for it. If it’s Maize and Blue or Scarlet and Gray pass on the offer.  Any other school is not even worth talking to. 

The best thing having a middle-of-the-pack player was it was a early glimpse into real life.  He learned to sell himself, to handle rejection, to pick up the pieces and keep going.  Those skills are a LOT more valuable than baseball.

RJM, Fenway, Cabbage and bunch of others  are absolutely accurate when it comes to trying to get an realistic view.  In my opinion, the most important reason for this:  Minimizing disappointment and heartache.  The process pulls at the heartstrings.  Your son will get his hopes up unless he is one of the select few that has their pick of the litter.  

The reason… its a game.  When you are a middle-of-the-pack guy…. you are strung along cause a coach never knows what will happen with his first two or three choices.  Do they get drafted?  Do they sign with another program?  It's in a coaches best interest to have lot of choices to work with until the last minute. 

Best advice you’ll get and in my opinion you should listen to:  Who really loves your son.  You’ll know.  Looking back on it — my son had three schools that LOVED him, two schools that liked him and one school that was neutral.  

Having a small catcher is tough.  Son was a 2017 and his recruiting journey was interesting.  Was around 5'8" 140 junior year.  He had interest (but not love) from all levels so it wasn't clear which level he should target.  Since he's Mr. Laid Back Dude, he decided to go the route of "everyone has seen me play, so if they aren't interested, I'm not going to bug them".  He had great grades but mediocre test scores, so that ruled out high academics.  Plus, he still has no idea what he wants to major in.  We did lots of visits and that was very helpful in ruling out what he didn't like.  He fell in love with a lower level D1 and I think the love was reciprocated but the coach was let go the week following his visit.  I really hope it wasn't because he wanted to bring on an intense little guy.

The biggest factor in his recruiting was playing for the best program in the area that had an owner/coach that loved him.  He knows everyone and worked his butt off for our son.   Offer at the current school was based solely on coach's recommendation. Kudos to his coach, how do you market a kid with D1 measurables on a 14U frame?  We're not in the baseball knitting circle so I am forever grateful for his efforts.

I wish I could say there's a magical formula, but it's more about the grind.  Every day he works on getting bigger, stronger and faster.  As a catcher, he understands that his job is to make his pitchers look good.  It's all about team.  His pitchers love him and follow him around like baby ducks...they always have.   

He's still grinding away.  He's at a JUCO 1.5 hours away.  Coach brought him on for his steady bat and through hard work he has earned his spot.  He's getting great grades and still chasing that baseball dream.  The road is longer for some than others.  Everyone's path is different.  

joes87 posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

How about this for a recruiting journey.  A friend's son (2019) is committed to a well known midwest university for baseball...has been for almost a year.  Kid is a phenomenal athlete and had an unbelievable year on the football field as a WR/KR.  Football coach at the school he's committed to really wants him to do both...meaning full ride for football   That option has been in the works for awhile....and they are considering it.   A B1G visited him at school today and offered for football.  Another B1G that had offered him for baseball has football guys coming to see him tomorrow.....then an ACC school on Thursday and the football guys from the school he's committed to on Friday.  At this point, he's still thinking that he's gonna stick with baseball only...but the options are definitely tempting him

When it comes to B1G it’s an easy choice. If they wear Green and White, go for it. If it’s Maize and Blue or Scarlet and Gray pass on the offer.  Any other school is not even worth talking to. 

Not going to get too specific....but yep, it's one of those 3....

Tequila I would guess that the majority of folks on this site, except for a few exceptions, are exactly in the same boat as you are in.   Those of us with 2019s without offers are starting to get a little more anxious....  At this point its safe to say that the top tier 2019s are already taken up.  I have a RHP, not sure if that makes this journey easier or harder?    My only advice would be to get him to a big PG tournament on a GOOD team.      I told my son the other day that I want him to walk out to the mound in the spring and be able to say that he did everything possible this fall and winter to reach his full potential (athletically and academically).....if he can say that then all is good, no matter where he ends up or doesn't end up.   Never want either one of us to  wonder 10 years from now "what if I had.....".  Good luck and lots of good advice from those on here who have already been through this journey.  

stayfocused posted:

Tequila I would guess that the majority of folks on this site, except for a few exceptions, are exactly in the same boat as you are in.   Those of us with 2019s without offers are starting to get a little more anxious....  At this point its safe to say that the top tier 2019s are already taken up.  I have a RHP, not sure if that makes this journey easier or harder?    My only advice would be to get him to a big PG tournament on a GOOD team.      I told my son the other day that I want him to walk out to the mound in the spring and be able to say that he did everything possible this fall and winter to reach his full potential (athletically and academically).....if he can say that then all is good, no matter where he ends up or doesn't end up.   Never want either one of us to  wonder 10 years from now "what if I had.....".  Good luck and lots of good advice from those on here who have already been through this journey.  

FWIW, particularly for those of you with "mid tier" 2018's and 2019's...

I have a 2019 in our system who is, by everyone's assessment, a D1 kid.  He and dad have been getting quite anxious because he has had interest and dialog but no offers yet.  They keep hearing that D1 happens earlier now (sophomore summer-ish).  I got a call from the RC of a decent midlevel D1 that plays several P5's non-conference.  He was asking about this player but was nervous about offering because they rarely offer "this early".  They just finished with 2018's.  So, as it pertains to the mid-tier player, this is another data point that D1 mid-level and down generally still aren't pushing up their recruiting efforts much before the junior season is playing out.

Thanks Cabbagedad. I have heard a similar sentiment from a RC I've been in contact with for a P5 camp my son is about to attend. His message verbatim was "Our 2019 class is getting close to be full but we still do need to fill certain areas." Anyone's guess as to what those areas are but that's in line with your RC's message.

tequila posted:

RJM posted:

This really doesn’t nail it down. He could still be anywhere from a D1 to a very competitive D3 prospect. Take all the kids who can play. Your son is one of them. Now it gets sliced and diced into projectability at the next level.

Exactly what I'm getting at RJM. You hit it on the head and that is basically what I stated in my very first post when I said ...by all accounts that I've been given (coaches and others in the business) he could potentially make teams at all levels of college baseball. It doesn't nail it down because it isn't "nail-down-able." The category you term as "...all the kids that can play," it is broad, varying, and dependent upon umpteen factors that we have to somehow deal with during the process and hope you were exposed to the right people, were assessed by the right [unbiased and knowledgeable] third party, all while trying to constantly improve academically and athletically. I am fairly certain of one thing; he wants to play and contribute as soon as he can so that at least helps his choices narrow some.

Your response, I believe, highlights the very essence of the reason I started the thread. It is a tricky road for players in this range and, I'll daresay, more complicated and requires more effort because there is a "selling yourself" portion that the top level talent doesn't seem to have as much of. Add the question of DI/DII/DIII/NAIA/Juco in the mix and you've got a redwood to whittle into a toothpick that you may never complete. Good times!

My boy's just a '22, so not as far down the path as yours or others on this thread, but I have a nagging suspicion he'll wind up in a similar situation.  I've bookmarked this thread and will refer to it when it's our time in the barrel.  Really, really great stuff.  

tequila posted:

Good stuff and thanks Backdorslider. I appreciate the candor. I don't think that my son has ever used the word "dream," that's more my verbiage and used interchangeably (probably incorrectly) with goal. The end of his playing baseball will be a sad day but it won't be the end of the world for him or for his mother and I. We're just enjoying the ride while we can. The game has provided so many positive experiences, and so much joy, that he will carry with him the rest of his life that there is no way any regrets could overshadow that, even if it ended today.

Maybe I should have been clearer in my initial post that when I refer to "mid-tier." I'm not talking about mid-tier D1 or mid-tier D3 or whatever. I'm talking about the kid who maybe isn't the second coming of Bryce Harper but is a solid top/mid order three or four year high school varsity starter, conference standout in a good conference of high enrollment schools, who is smart, hard-working, motivated, coordinated, and coachable. I'm talking about my kid basically which is why I started the thread There is somewhere for him but it is hard, if not impossible, for me to be objective because I see what he keeps up with - how hard he works - all the events, uniforms, practices, games, 6am workouts, tests, quizzes, AP class load and homework, volunteer hours, fundraising events, tutoring, private lessons, cages, tee work in the back yard, coach emails, camps, showcases, etc. etc....and this is at 16 years of age and he's been carrying that on for two and a half years at least! So of course I think he's the greatest thing ever. There is no way I could have done all that at his age so I'm just trying to be there for him in whatever way I can. I'm a proud dad no matter what he decides or how all this works out! I just appreciate all the advice and suggestions I've received from this post. This has been truly inspiring, encouraging, humbling, and informative. Thanks folks!

Tequila,  Sorry I re-read my post and I may have mis-understood.   I sometimes get a little carried away.  But honestly, everyone here wants to help in some way... and you will get through this....  Before I started going to any camps, showcases etc.. figure out how far away he is really willing to live.  OMHO this is the first step... once the distance is determined, target all the schools , at all the levels  .  someone may have already mentioned it but once he's gone and especially for freshman, it's a tough first semester. This will help you narrow the search.  Once the target schools are listed look at their past 5 year rosters.  Where do they pull their players from ?  90% in-state ?  all over ?

find out if they are fully funded... and for most D2 D3 and NAIA  , just call and see if you can visit the coach and campus... I doubt they turn you down.  that's an easy way to get some attention and learn the process.

Arrange for your son to get some ACT tutoring....the average kid can raise his score by two points with a little effort. Move from a 28 to the "magic" number 30 and doors will open. A 32 will open even more. Yes, there are kids on high academic rosters with under 30 but this thread is about "mid tier" recruiting and the higher the score the greater the chance!

tequila posted:

Thanks Cabbagedad. I have heard a similar sentiment from a RC I've been in contact with for a P5 camp my son is about to attend. His message verbatim was "Our 2019 class is getting close to be full but we still do need to fill certain areas." Anyone's guess as to what those areas are but that's in line with your RC's message.

Tequila...at this point, any and all contact with RC's or HC's should come from your son, whether it's email, phone call or text.  You can coach him on what to say and help ask/answer questions...but I wouldn't have any calls, texts, emails coming from you....have him handle all of it.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

tequila posted:

Thanks Cabbagedad. I have heard a similar sentiment from a RC I've been in contact with for a P5 camp my son is about to attend. His message verbatim was "Our 2019 class is getting close to be full but we still do need to fill certain areas." Anyone's guess as to what those areas are but that's in line with your RC's message.

Tequila...at this point, any and all contact with RC's or HC's should come from your son, whether it's email, phone call or text.  You can coach him on what to say and help ask/answer questions...but I wouldn't have any calls, texts, emails coming from you....have him handle all of it.

Understood Buckeye and I appreciate the heads-up. I would normally not have any communication with any potential recruiting staff but he email exchange was in reference to camp registration and the utilization of a previous camp credit, which I would not expect my son to be dealing with. The question from me that spurred his comment was trying to determine if it would be worthwhile for us to make the trip (6.5 hour drive and an overnight) if they already had their 2019 class filled. The answer may have simply been to get us to attend but, given that I paid eight months ago, and it is non-refundable, I don't know what his drive to have us here would be for if he didn't want to take a look at him. Just wanted you to have a better understanding of why that communication happened in the first place, and I appreciate you looking out for us!

Great thread. I'll chime in. For 2019s, some really high profile programs are done, D-O-N-E, depending on how the draft works out for their current team and their 2018 class. (Yes, of course, if you throw 95, they'll find a spot). Other P5's are very close (e.g., one recently told my son that they were looking for 1-2 more RHPs, but otherwise were done). Mid-market teams are not done, some have no commits, but they are talking to kids, making offers, arranging UVs, etc.

The earlier recruiting calendar creates a lot of anxiety. It's one thing to understand logically that there are lots more 2019 commits to come. It's another thing to see 2020s committing left and right, and even 2021s. Can be hard for a kid to stay on an even keel. For a dad . . . all but impossible. ;-)

So newbie question.  Did not know that the kid should engage with the colleges and coaches and read that there.  Makes sense.   However, I don't even think 2020 has an email address.   LOL.  Times have changed.  Have to get him one.

Prior to our recent D1 camp the RC/hitting instructor emailed me to make sure he was coming.  Afterward we of course thanked them in person with a firm shandshake etc and I sent an email to the same RC (same email thread) thanking them again for the opportunity, impressed with everything all ON BEHALF of my kid etc etc.  So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

2020 - By all means the kid should be reaching out and making contact and building a relationship with the coaches.  The coaches also understand that 15-17 year old kids are not typically the best communicators or have the best skills at contacting adults.  BUT, it is critical that they lead the charge in the contact department.  I think coaches also appreciate the effort made by the player and can tell when it is a document by mom or dad that the kid "sends" over from his email.  There is a ton of information on here about contacting coaches etc.  You might be surprised at how well they do, I know I was with my son.  It was really strange (and a proud moment) to see how he handled himself in meeting coaches and holding a conversation etc.  Exciting times!

2020.2023dad posted:

So newbie question.  Did not know that the kid should engage with the colleges and coaches and read that there.  Makes sense.   However, I don't even think 2020 has an email address.   LOL.  Times have changed.  Have to get him one.

Prior to our recent D1 camp the RC/hitting instructor emailed me to make sure he was coming.  Afterward we of course thanked them in person with a firm shandshake etc and I sent an email to the same RC (same email thread) thanking them again for the opportunity, impressed with everything all ON BEHALF of my kid etc etc.  So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

 

An email address is easy....either yahoo or gmail is fine.  Use his name and grad year.....such as johnnysmith2020@yahoo.com    You can always help him ask/answer questions....but let it come from his email.  Once calls/texts start, make sure it's his phone.  Again, there's nothing saying you can't read/review/proof everything.  Your son can't violate contact rules....he can try to make contact however he wants.  Coaches are responsible (and will know) for what they do as far as response.   My son had an email he used....I could keep an eye on it during the day while he was in school, then talk to him after school before he responded.  Also, even if you help.....try to make sure it "sounds like" it's a 15 year old kid writing it, not a 40-something dad lol.  Good luck!!

Oh...and it seems like common sense, but if your son is sending out the same email to more than once coach (just changing school name, coach, mascot, etc)....make sure he double checks each email before he hits send.  It's a bad look when you sent an email to a coach and at some point in the letter  you have Louisville....and later you in the letter you mention Seminoles lol.   Uh, yep, not those two schools....but we did send one with the mascot not matching the school....

2020.2023dad posted:

Prior to our recent D1 camp the RC/hitting instructor emailed me to make sure he was coming.  Afterward we of course thanked them in person with a firm shandshake etc and I sent an email to the same RC (same email thread) thanking them again for the opportunity, impressed with everything all ON BEHALF of my kid etc etc.  So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

 

So I'll venture a reply here based our experience and education thus far. There are many articles on the Internet about reaching out with interest but suffice to say that I think it's pretty commonly agreed upon that the player should be the one sending the emails, from his own email address. Do some basic searching with your favorite search engine and there should be quite a few results giving ideas of what should be communicated. Ideally the more brief the better and include key things that the coaches might want to know i.e. not a family history, etc. A video link is also good but it should be fairly short as well. These guys are really busy.

My son and I got together and came up with a few different versions of emails that we both agreed upon for various situations. He tries to personalize each one, to some degree, to express that he's done some research as well as to avoid any "uncomfortable situations" that might arise due to errors in name substitution or coach overlap. I woudn't worry too much about the contact rules as that is on the schools to adhere to. My understanding is that the player can reach out to the coaching staff at basically any time. The coaches just may not be permitted to respond. It would be good for you to familiarize yourself with the contact rules and calendars which can be found here http://www.ncaa.org/student-at...recruiting-calendars. Hope that helps and, please, anyone who has more or wishes to correct, feel free to do so.

2020.2023dad posted:

So newbie question.  Did not know that the kid should engage with the colleges and coaches and read that there.  Makes sense.   However, I don't even think 2020 has an email address.   LOL.  Times have changed.  Have to get him one.

Prior to our recent D1 camp the RC/hitting instructor emailed me to make sure he was coming.  Afterward we of course thanked them in person with a firm shandshake etc and I sent an email to the same RC (same email thread) thanking them again for the opportunity, impressed with everything all ON BEHALF of my kid etc etc.  So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

 

Call it "proof read" 

Yes, general rule of thumb is that the player should be driving and initiating everything.  Communication should be between RC/HC and player.  The exception is when you get to the point where money (which the parent will pay) is involved.  

Nothing wrong with necessary guidance, which, at the beginning, is quite a bit for most.  This is a great teaching opportunity in so many ways for your son/s let alone what the schools want to see.

There are lots of threads on this topic here that you can search and you should.  The player needs to drive the process for many, many reasons.  I know it often seems quite counter-intuitive.

I have 2 thoughts about emails, FWIW.

1 - If the kid uses a special recruiting email address as suggested by Buckeye above, make sure Jr. is careful about checking it or making sure it forwards after the recruiting process is over.   Even though my 2017 told his college coach not to use his recruiting address any longer, coach keeps using it, and as a result he very nearly missed getting his medical forms in in time to play fall ball this year.

2 - Emails etc. cannot hurt.  And good videos are a great tool to have, especially after a coach has seen a kid play.  But from my kid's recruitment, and from that of other kids we know, unsolicited, player-initiated contact has had zero to do with where the kid ends up. 99.9% of recruiting is about getting in front of the right coaches, and the coaches liking what they see.

...just IMHO of course.

2020.2023dad posted:

So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

Have you taken 2020 to visit any schools yet? That would probably help him/you narrow down the list pretty quickly. Things like school size, weather, facilities, city/country, etc.

Don't worry about contact rules. Those rules are on the onus of the school, not the student. Just don't put a coach in a bad spot by cornering him at an off-campus tournament or something. When in doubt, leave them alone.

I'm sure there are parents writing their kids' emails, but I'm just as sure that coaches can usually tell the difference. Unless your son is contacting an Ivy coach, using the wrong there/their/they're isn't going to hurt his recruiting profile. These guys work with young men every day... they know what they're dealing with. Nothing wrong with a little proofreading, but IMO it's more important for the email to be honest and in your son's authentic voice.

JCG posted:

I have 2 thoughts about emails, FWIW.

1 - If the kid uses a special recruiting email address as suggested by Buckeye above, make sure Jr. is careful about checking it or making sure it forwards after the recruiting process is over.   Even though my 2017 told his college coach not to use his recruiting address any longer, coach keeps using it, and as a result he very nearly missed getting his medical forms in in time to play fall ball this year.

2 - Emails etc. cannot hurt.  And good videos are a great tool to have, especially after a coach has seen a kid play.  But from my kid's recruitment, and from that of other kids we know, unsolicited, player-initiated contact has had zero to do with where the kid ends up. 99.9% of recruiting is about getting in front of the right coaches, and the coaches liking what they see.

...just IMHO of course.

Its interesting that in JCG case email didnt do/matter much.  Our experience was that several offers were from being seen (camps, showcases etc.) and rest resulted from son identifying schools and sending unsolicited emails with video as well as monitoring which schools were active on FieldLevel and many follow ups.  Son cast a very wide net with literally hundreds of emails from coast to coast and got some very good responses.  I think this is critical if the schools of interest are not local and are outside of a couple hundred miles from home.  School he ended up signing with never would have known about son if not for unsolicited emails, videos and FieldLevel.  Many different paths to the promised land...

 

Have you taken 2020 to visit any schools yet? That would probably help him/you narrow down the list pretty quickly. Things like school size, weather, facilities, city/country, etc.

Don't worry about contact rules. Those rules are on the onus of the school, not the student. Just don't put a coach in a bad spot by cornering him at an off-campus tournament or something. When in doubt, leave them alone.

I'm sure there are parents writing their kids' emails, but I'm just as sure that coaches can usually tell the difference. Unless your son is contacting an Ivy coach, using the wrong there/their/they're isn't going to hurt his recruiting profile. These guys work with young men every day... they know what they're dealing with. Nothing wrong with a little proofreading, but IMO it's more important for the email to be honest and in your son's authentic voice.

Thanks for the response.  We just started to look. We are trying to visit schools that make sense first and foremost for 4 years with or without baseball, and then try to attend when there is a camp.  So far we've made it to exactly 1 and I've inquired about 2 more.  All are REALISTIC for both school and baseball. Trying to mix it up a bit from D1 to D3.  Academically, he would probably end up at a power 5 type school in state (there are 2 options) since we prepaid his college tuition a long time ago.  Don't tell the RC!