Recruiting the "mid-tier" player

Good grades and test scores +1,  so start with higher academic schools and really search out academic $$ together with what his desired major is. 

Some more info for better help.

1. Desired major.

2. Preferred location in country.

3. Does he have a list of safe, stretch, and mid schools? If not make one. D"X" does not matter so make sure his list includes D1,2,3 levels. 

4. Get a reliable independent assessment of his skill level and projection (as far as baseball)

As TPM always says " Schools recruit players, not the other way around" but players do let schools know they are interested so get your list started and read up here on how to start communicating with them.

Good Luck!

Your son sounds a lot like mine....good numbers, good grades, but a little small to be getting serious "early" looks, so you're right, this summer will be the prime recruiting time for him.  Showcases, emails, camps etc are all fine and we did them all.  Then the summer after his junior year son got to play for a well known travel organization, and it was on what they considered their "B" team...though they were actually fairly close talent wise.  He started getting college attention the first week....a couple as a MIF and a couple as a P and committed the 2nd week of July.  Is your son on a team that will get him in tournaments where he'll be seen?   Your profile says Mid-South.  Will get be at WWBA?   Music City?  etc.  He should be seen by enough coaches at those kinds of events to get you some interest.  

You mention $$$ on recruiting services....at this point, if you've done emails, camps, showcases, etc.....stop throwing money at that part of your equation....it's not going to do you any good.  Put it toward some winter workouts and save the rest for any visits you may make this summer.

Good luck!! 

Thanks for the replies BOF and Buckeye. One of the struggles we have from an academic perspective is that he isn't sure what he wants to study so using that as a decision point is difficult. He does have some preferred locations but if the right opportunity came along I suspect there are factors that would outweigh this. We definitely need to complete the list of schools BOF mentioned and have been working on that for the past few months.

As far as summer team goes., he has played the last two summers with the local installment of a reputable national organization but not on what they would term their "elite" team or whatever similar designation indicates top of the talent pool. They went to Memphis, Lubbock, and a few venues in AR last summer. We will be exploring other summer options for better exposure with this summer being pivotal, although he really likes the guys and coaches he's played with for the past two years. Thanks again for the insight!

If he (and your family) wants him to stay in the mid-south make sure you add Emory and a few other top D3 programs to your list. (which there are many in your area) My son got a degree in engineering and we were looking at mostly D1 programs until very late in the process and we both wished we had looked at Emory and maybe a few other programs on his list.  One thing to consider is that it is much more fun playing for a winning D3 program than a perennial losing D1 program. My son went to 4 straight regionals and conf tournaments,  and one CWS and those experiences can never be duplicated. Birmingham Southern, Millsaps, Rhodes, all field very competitive baseball teams and some have excellent academics as well and have significant academic $$ available.  We spent months looking over schools in our research process in US News, Fiske, Princeston, etc and the process will help him figure out what fits him best. 

Good Luck, and keep asking questions as there is tremendous experience here at all levels and regions. 

I have a similar question about my 2020.

-6'1 215

-I don't have a 60 time 7.3-4 ?

-Position Velocity 78

-R-R, OF 1b (pitches on summer team but would not in college)  

-Exit velo 97 (no kidding); outstanding hitter

-GPA 3.95 (advanced AP courses ).  Practice test scores indicate  28-30 on the ACT / 1250 SAT. He is probably going to study engineering or biology (does not want to be a physician though)

We are getting the best outside training in our area in hitting, throwing mechanics and speed/agility.  And the summer teams practices twice a week.  

All sounds good, right? However, we committed to a team with a handful of his HS teammates that is with a good local organization (their B team) that has good training but the schedule really will not result in much exposure.   HS team and coach are not going to be much help. 

Should we just try to play some with better teams who might do a PG, WWBA or other high exposure or look to get picked up by a better team now?  Has anyone had success getting D1 exposure playing on an average team?  I suppose we could do a college showcase and get some numbers out there.  Or would it be better just to pick a few schools show up to their camps and see if he gets noticed?     

2020.2023dad posted:

I have a similar question about my 2020.

-6'1 215

-I don't have a 60 time 7.3-4 ?

-Position Velocity 78

-R-R, OF 1b (pitches on summer team but would not in college)  

-Exit velo 97 (no kidding); outstanding hitter

-GPA 3.95 (advanced AP courses ).  Practice test scores indicate  28-30 on the ACT / 1250 SAT. He is probably going to study engineering or biology (does not want to be a physician though)

We are getting the best outside training in our area in hitting, throwing mechanics and speed/agility.  And the summer teams practices twice a week.  

All sounds good, right? However, we committed to a team with a handful of his HS teammates that is with a good local organization (their B team) that has good training but the schedule really will not result in much exposure.   HS team and coach are not going to be much help. 

Should we just try to play some with better teams who might do a PG, WWBA or other high exposure or look to get picked up by a better team now?  Has anyone had success getting D1 exposure playing on an average team?  I suppose we could do a college and get some numbers out there.  Or would it be better just to pick a few schools show up to their camps and see if he gets noticed?     

My son is one who wants to play with friends and our team has been average in the past. He has gotten very little exposure with the team.  That said, we have made a lot of effort to get him seen at showcases and college camps.  It is working.  He is talking to the schools he is interested in and several are top D1 programs.  That said, we've had to spend quite a bit of money traveling to PBR and PG showcases and have done camps at the schools he really wants to attend.  We also spend a good amount of time engaging and sending video and then following up before camps.

baseballhs posted:

 

 

My son is one who wants to play with friends and our team has been average in the past. He has gotten very little exposure with the team.  That said, we have made a lot of effort to get him seen at showcases and college camps.  It is working.  He is talking to the schools he is interested in and several are top D1 programs.  That said, we've had to spend quite a bit of money traveling to PBR and PG showcases and have done camps at the schools he really wants to attend.  We also spend a good amount of time engaging and sending video and then following up before camps.

Thanks for the response BBHS.   Which PG/PBR Showcases did you attend, if you don't mind sharing?  

In the fall we picked a school he was interested in and went to their prospect  camp (about 400 miles round trip).  Only a 12 players, half of which had offers (4 commits) -- good experience.   We had to pay for the camp ($100) but should I expect that we won't have to pay if asked back or do we pay?

My younger son is on a top national team and goes to PG (Lakepointe), and PBR in another state a total of 7 times next summer so I'd like to get him to one of those playing on another team.  Is that something you have tried?  Wondering if I just contact other coaches on teams we know about and offering to roster to potentially make take a better team with a better approach for next year or just ride out the summer before junior year make it to showcases etc.   

If the *insert name of fancy tourney here*  is around the corner from your house I say why not go. 

If the *insert name of fancy tourney here*  means hundreds or thousands of dollars to be seen by schools that your kid likely won't have the ability to be recruited by, then what's the point of going?

It's cool to say my son played in all the great tourneys, but you have to think what the end goal is.  Do you think your kid is better off playing in front of Auburn, UGA, and Alabama for a big chunk of change, or is he better off playing at a camp for $100-$150 with the exact people he is trying to impress?

Thx for the response.  Our goal isnt to play at those schools. Our goal is to attend and play at a higher academic school in the midwest.  D1 or D3 school. Probably not a power 5 type conference.   

My understanding is PG scores and rankings are important to getting  visits, not scout/coach   exposure which are hit or miss on average teams.  In our area there are 4-5 2021s committed to top schools like Duke Vanderbit and Clemson. There are 25 or so 2019s and 2020s going to top 25 type schols. What these kids seem have in common was elite summer team “brand” and  PG exposure, but not college tournament visits (I asked many of their parents or looked at their schedules)

Is what you are saying that the top choice schools recruit at these events schools but others dont so focus on just local events?  What I assumed was mid tier schools also look at PG numbers and scout their events, but get the scraps.  

Tequila. Great first post. My son was a 2017 catcher. His size and stats were very close your sons: same height but he's now 185 (lots of weights in college; was 175). A tad faster in 60, a little slower exit speed, but all very similar. So, perhaps your son will continue to grow (mine stopped about sophomore year).

We did the camps, hitting lessons, catcher lessons, travel baseball, etc. Great experience but costly (but we could afford it). I realize my son had no shot playing D1, and that D2 and D3 was his target. But only one D2 school in VA and very small and very far away. In short, he did not have a good first day at the D3 school he really wanted to go to (1 of 6 catchers, they took one). He did really well at a D3 school he did not really want to go to. He went to a large D1 in-state school, my alma mater, and loves it. No baseball. He'll play for his men's wood bat league again summer 2018. Life is good. Enjoy the ride.

For a catcher, they want to see SIZE and positional velo, pop-time, and power. My son ran a 6.96 60 and nobody cared. He was a blocking/picking machine, great leader, and lefty line drive hitter (yawn). He was 5'10" 175. Not trying to be discouraging, just realistic. It is important to realize and manage expectations and proceed accordingly. Best of luck!

CaCO3Girl posted:

If the *insert name of fancy tourney here*  is around the corner from your house I say why not go. 

If the *insert name of fancy tourney here*  means hundreds or thousands of dollars to be seen by schools that your kid likely won't have the ability to be recruited by, then what's the point of going?

It's cool to say my son played in all the great tourneys, but you have to think what the end goal is.  Do you think your kid is better off playing in front of Auburn, UGA, and Alabama for a big chunk of change, or is he better off playing at a camp for $100-$150 with the exact people he is trying to impress?

Not sure about the "Auburn/UGA/Alabama" portion of your post....and this goes back to 2020DAD's question in his last post.    The WWBA isn't only those types of schools.....far from it.  You have hundreds of schools from all levels from D1 down to NAIA at that event.  My son's team at 17U  (B-team of a good organization) had more kids get serious contact from the WWBA than they had all summer at other events....and we played in high exposure events.  I really believe that if it wasn't for that event, 4 or 5 kids on his team wouldn't have ended up playing college ball.   Yes, the "big boys" are there....looking for the studs, but most of that is done at the 15U/16U WWBA's now.....by the time this year's 17U rolls around (2019's) there will be plenty of guys there that know they didn't get the Top 100/200 guys and are looking to fill out their 2019 classes. 

2020DAD and Tequila....just an FYI........the starting catcher for my son's D-1 is a senior this year.....listed at 5-9, 156....the 156 may be right, but the 5-9 is at giving him at least 2" lol.  Great catcher....solid line drive hitter with a good arm.  My son is a pitcher and absolutely loves having the kid behind the plate

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It's been very helpful. Much in line with my expectations, there are varying degrees and opinions on most things and some strong similarities on certain topics in this thread. To Batty's point about size, I have heard that from time to time from coaches, parents, and former players, specifically in relation to big D1 schools for the most part. Then I hear comments like the one from Buckeye, and watch players like Dodger C, Austin Barnes (5'10"/185) and believe there remains hope for my son. He probably won't grow vertically much more and will be pushing it to ever hit 200lbs but I try not to kill the dream for him until it's really dead, which it by no means is at this point (for playing somewhere).

Most importantly for my family, there is some level of confirmation here that I believe we're doing most of the right things given our scheduling and financial abilities as well as my son's athletic and academic position; and we're enjoying the heck out of the process by the way! The bottom line is that he wants the college experience that he has in mind and if that doesn't involve baseball then so be it. We're in for some interesting times if opportunities begin to present themselves at smaller, or more rural, locations. He'll have to make some decisions at that point as to just how important playing college baseball is.

Our 2019 was not getting much attention until late summer, and is now getting interest from many coaches in the last 6-8 weeks. We credit much of this to 3 things: 1) son moved to a better showcase team with a well-connected coach, 2) he received a strong report from a reputable scout at a showcase event, and 3) has good video to share (on youtube) in all email comms with coaches. He responds to EVERY email he receives from schools he's interested in (even the clearly non-personal/subscription ones), and always puts a link to the video. We've been amazed at how many coaches watch the video & respond.

Tequila and 2020— 

I have a 2017 pitcher that was similar in stats to your sons.  Smart kid (3.6 with a 32 ACT) and a solid baseball player — but not earth shattering in high school.  Played on a “b” team for two local high profile summer programs that traveled throughout CA and AZ for tournaments. His high school is a powerhouse with long history of producing D1 and MLB players.  My son is a late bloomer and as a result didn’t attract a lot of good D1 attention.  Maybe he was on their board, but towards the bottom of the list for his position (LHP). 

Like others, we did combination of showcases, college camps, and emails/video to schools that were on our target list.  The single biggest thing we did right was attend two camps — Headfirst and Stanford.  Without question.  Just about every college camps we went to was a result of an assistant coach seeing my son at one of the above mentioned showcases and extending interest.  

Today, my son is having a blast and seeing/feeling success at the high academic D3 he is attending in the midwest (Grinnell).  VERY early in the process but he will likely be a contributor as a freshman on the field.  As a parent, I am thrilled he used baseball to get into a high academic school that he otherwise might not have be accepted.  In addition — he is happy.  That is huge.  

I ran into one of my son’s high school teammate parents last week.  Their son played with my guy for four years.  Great kid, good baseball player, nice family. He earned a scholarship to a really solid D1 program.   I inquired how their son was doing, how fall ball went, etc…. I was surprised to hear that it was a real struggle for their son.  Lot of questions about whether he was going to ever see the filed, if the program was a going to work out, etc….   I could just tell that this past fall had been a real struggle.  The mom said to me that they just want their son to be happy and how college was only four years, etc,,,  I thanked my lucky stars that when I talk to my son — he is totally happy.  

Best advice I can give is for your boys to work as hard as they can to get better every day.   And if they keep their options open good things will open up for them.  In the meantime — checkout Headfirst especially.  Sorry for the long-winded response.   

As you are finding out there are many aspects to the recruiting game.  First of all, I would suggest ditching the recruiting service.  They are only there to make money.  Everything they do you can do yourself with a higher level of success.  

Next, I would take a long hard look at your sons travel program.  Are they known for getting kids into college?  If not then you are in the wrong program.  If they are then are you on the A or B (depending on program) team that they use to place kids?  If you are on the B(sometimes) or C team then they may be using your money to fund the recruiting efforts for the kids on the A team.  Also, do they target the level at which your son will be playing?  If your son projects mid-D1 and they seem to get kids placed at the top D1 programs, it will not help your son to be playing in this program.  Is your son getting playing time?  If not, change programs.  

The right showcase/travel program for your son will have deep contacts for colleges at the level in which he should be playing.  They will work to get you son noticed.  But don't expect them to use those contacts if they do not believe in your son.  I do not know of a program that will burn a contact for any player.  In order to remain a top program they must keep up their reputation and if they are over selling a player to a college they will tarnish that reputation.

Also, when it comes to changing showcase/travel programs, most folks tend to stay due to loyalty.  Don't become one of them.  Think of this as a business and you are the consumer.  You are paying them for a service, if there is a better place to spend your money, go there.  I know most kids want to stay with their friends and feel comfortable, but if you are truly looking to make it to the next level you will need to make the sacrifices necessary to do that.  

Finally, approach this with a plan.  I would start by putting together a recruiting video, resume and website.  If you need help with any of these, post a separate question and folks will chime in.  There is a specific format for all of these and it will help if your information follows in that format.  Not that it won't get noticed, but more attention will be paid to them if they are short and concise.  

After putting together the necessary info, its time to start contacting the colleges.  Put together a very broad list of schools that meet your sons educational needs.  Once you have that list of schools together, start to whittle them down to the schools which meets your sons athletic needs.  The list should still be very broad.   If it only contains 10 schools, its probably too small.  Once you have the list setup its time to start contacting the schools.  Every school should have a Recruiting coordinator (RC).  If there is no RC listed, contact the Head Coach (HC) Put together a nice email and send it to the RC or HC.  Your sons email should be customized for each school.  Do NOT send generic emails.  The email should have a subject line to catch their attention.  Something like "Joe Smith - 2019 - Catcher - 1.9 Pop Time".  The email should only contain a few intro lines, and a link to the recruiting video.  We would also attach the resume as well as cut and paste it at the bottom of the email.

At this point your email should have been sent out to 25+ schools.  Hopefully a few of those will show some interest and email you back.  You are probably going to get invites to camps from all of these schools.  Ignore those.  What you are looking for is a personal email to your son.  Trust me when I tell you that you will know the difference.  These emails will open up a line of communication with the school, this is what you are hoping for.  This is the point when you should start the discussion on how to get in front of them.  They will generally ask what events your son plans on attending.  They will also let you know where they will be in attendance.  You will need to find a way to get where they are (unless they are very interested and then they will find a way to get to you).  If you can get in front of them, let them know and then work with them and your sons coach (if a tourney) to make sure your son is on the field when they are around.

Tequila.....at this point in my son's junior year in HS he was probably 5'9, maybe 150....he was 5'10, 160ish when he committed the July after his junior year....started college at 6' 170 and as of last weekend when he was home he is 6'1, 197....and had been up to 203 one morning at weigh in.   He actually shocked me when he walked in last week.  He said "yeah, none of my shirts fit"

I would only echo what most of these parents said. The advice you have been given is very good. Sounds like your son should be heading toward the Hi-Acs.  Keep pushing forward. The journey is long and the road takes many turns.

joes87 posted:

As you are finding out there are many aspects to the recruiting game.  First of all, I would suggest ditching the recruiting service.  They are only there to make money.  Everything they do you can do yourself with a higher level of success.  

Next, I would take a long hard look at your sons travel program.  Are they known for getting kids into college?  If not then you are in the wrong program.  If they are then are you on the A or B (depending on program) team that they use to place kids?  If you are on the B(sometimes) or C team then they may be using your money to fund the recruiting efforts for the kids on the A team.  Also, do they target the level at which your son will be playing?  If your son projects mid-D1 and they seem to get kids placed at the top D1 programs, it will not help your son to be playing in this program.  Is your son getting playing time?  If not, change programs.  

The right showcase/travel program for your son will have deep contacts for colleges at the level in which he should be playing.  They will work to get you son noticed.  But don't expect them to use those contacts if they do not believe in your son.  I do not know of a program that will burn a contact for any player.  In order to remain a top program they must keep up their reputation and if they are over selling a player to a college they will tarnish that reputation.

Also, when it comes to changing showcase/travel programs, most folks tend to stay due to loyalty.  Don't become one of them.  Think of this as a business and you are the consumer.  You are paying them for a service, if there is a better place to spend your money, go there.  I know most kids want to stay with their friends and feel comfortable, but if you are truly looking to make it to the next level you will need to make the sacrifices necessary to do that.  

Finally, approach this with a plan.  I would start by putting together a recruiting video, resume and website.  If you need help with any of these, post a separate question and folks will chime in.  There is a specific format for all of these and it will help if your information follows in that format.  Not that it won't get noticed, but more attention will be paid to them if they are short and concise.  

After putting together the necessary info, its time to start contacting the colleges.  Put together a very broad list of schools that meet your sons educational needs.  Once you have that list of schools together, start to whittle them down to the schools which meets your sons athletic needs.  The list should still be very broad.   If it only contains 10 schools, its probably too small.  Once you have the list setup its time to start contacting the schools.  Every school should have a Recruiting coordinator (RC).  If there is no RC listed, contact the Head Coach (HC) Put together a nice email and send it to the RC or HC.  Your sons email should be customized for each school.  Do NOT send generic emails.  The email should have a subject line to catch their attention.  Something like "Joe Smith - 2019 - Catcher - 1.9 Pop Time".  The email should only contain a few intro lines, and a link to the recruiting video.  We would also attach the resume as well as cut and paste it at the bottom of the email.

At this point your email should have been sent out to 25+ schools.  Hopefully a few of those will show some interest and email you back.  You are probably going to get invites to camps from all of these schools.  Ignore those.  What you are looking for is a personal email to your son.  Trust me when I tell you that you will know the difference.  These emails will open up a line of communication with the school, this is what you are hoping for.  This is the point when you should start the discussion on how to get in front of them.  They will generally ask what events your son plans on attending.  They will also let you know where they will be in attendance.  You will need to find a way to get where they are (unless they are very interested and then they will find a way to get to you).  If you can get in front of them, let them know and then work with them and your sons coach (if a tourney) to make sure your son is on the field when they are around.

 

 

Thanks Joe. That's all good stuff and we're at various phases of most of what you mentioned. We just need to get the school list down to a manageable level.

With regard to recruiting services, we had three going, two of which I dropped to the free option. Unfortunately, the third one is not a month-to-month deal so I've committed those funds, period. I have mixed feelings on it as there have been a few benefits like a centralized spot for school research, video creation by the service (the first of which ended up not too bad), and an objective evaluation of his abilities and corresponding target schools.

Is any of that something I couldn't do/get on my own? Probably not.
Will I end up regretting spending the money on this? The jury is still out but if I didn't do it and an opportunity was missed I'd forever regret it as a dad trying to do the right thing in support of his son's goals and dreams. If he gets a profile view or a follow that turns out to be a school that sees him at a tournament, or we decide to attend a camp at, and an offer results in a commitment, I'd probably tell you the service was the greatest thing ever ;-) The likelihood of this is slim but so is the likelihood of me being able to travel to the coasts multiple times a year to attend the big camps and showcases. If it sounds like I'm doing a bit of justification, well, I am. I question every step and decision made in the process and know that I will mess some up. Only time will tell so we just enjoy it while we can.

So glad to hear from other parents of the middle kid — good enough to play, but not looking at top tier baseball schools. That was my son, although he did end up at a very good baseball school. Notes from our experience — first, he's a 2018 who committed in September of his senior year. We are from Iowa, home to one D1 baseball school. Not sure we have any D2, but a couple of NAIA, so. . . 

1. We cast a very wide net. Son emailed more than 200 coaches with links to his video and web site. Those two things are vital.

2. He never ignored an email. Every camp invite got a note back, saying he couldn't attend or would check his schedule, but then repeating links to his web site and his video and asking for feedback. Several gave it and we added them to our list of "maybes."

3. Son went to camps. We chose schools from various sizes and backgrounds, mostly in states surrounding ours. He attended camps and did college visits for a couple of very large D1s, a couple of mid-size D1s, then a few middle size D2s, and some smaller D3s. We never went to a camp without also scheduling a campus visit. The variety in schools helped him narrow in on what mattered to him. While some of them he walked away from going "not my thing" they still were worth while because he also learned more what he liked and what he didn't. And he got the offer to the school he will attend in the fall after pitching an inning at a camp in September.

4. We didn't do Headfirst or any other big camps. Son attended at least one, sometimes two, PBR events each year just to get updated measurables and to be seen by coaches, he played for a decent but not outstanding travel team that traveled just around Iowa and surrounding states (Missouri and Illinois). Those two things seemed to get him the attention he needed without driving us into the poorhouse. He did play in a couple of PG events his senior year when he hit 6'3" and his FB started to tease 90.

5. We worked with an advisor and found it worthwhile. We paid one lump sum after my son's freshman year, and continue to talk to the guy with questions about which events to attend, how to respond to coach questions, insights on video, etc. Yes, we can get a lot of that here, but while this site turned out to be great for me, the advisor was the same resource for my son.

6. When we did get some interest and figured out the size school my son wanted, we looked at the rankings percentage index of the last season for schools like the ones expressing interest, identified schools close to them (so if the 140th school on the list was expressing interest, we reached out to the 120th through the 170th that looked interesting). It helped us narrow the search.

8. Son aggressively reached out. During his junior season, he had about 15 coaches that he texted after every game with stats, notes on his performance, and thoughts on what he would do to improve, and a note on when he would next pitch and an invitation to the coach to be there. It helped the schools know he was serious, stay up to date on his skills and growth, and schedule times they could come see him.

Best wishes. I think when you're a mid-level player it's harder. There's a lot of schools out there and finding the right fit isn't easy when you're just looking at academics. Adding baseball to it makes the challenge even greater.

my 2013 played mid-tier D1 .... they take a lot of Juco's

So, I'm going to take a slightly different approach and recommendation.  Your son sounds like a tweener...he could have the baseball talent to play in college and he is has an initial ACT score that is a borderline for some high academic schools.   The question becomes where to spend your time and money to give him the necessary exposure to a school that is looking for someone like him?  Based on what you've shared, the answer may be that he may get more exposure to more schools by boosting his ACT score and attending more showcases that look for academic recruits like him.  Again, based on what you've shared I think your son can more easily separate himself from the crowd by continuing his baseball development AND specifically focusing his attention to boosting his ACT and grades.  

As always JMO.  Good luck.

PS...I would not limit geography at this point in his search.

Tequila posted:

"FWIW, my son's info is as follows:

2019 Catcher
5'10" 165lbs
GPA - 3.60 / 4.0
ACT 28
Exit Velo - 84
60 - 7.02
Position Velo - 77
Consistent Pop Time - 1.9-2.1"

And I'd add one more:

"7-months to better all these numbers."

I commend you and your son for knowing what his "numbers" are in the first place.  This is the first step in having an idea of what level he should be aiming for.  But what I see is a kid who has already put himself in a solid position, but I'd be curious if he can do better in all categories before June 2018.  I bet he can. 

Numbers like these are not to be set on the mantel, these numbers are only good if he breaks all of them and gets even better.  

Your son has some solid base numbers, but the really good news is he has a good 6-7 months to make them even better.  Getting his GPA closer to the 4.0 end, ACT to 30 minimum, breaking 7.0 in the sixty, adding 10lbs more, and being a legit pop time of 1.9 are ALL things he has a lot of control over.  Tell your son he can not control what coaches think of him, but HE can control his side of things by having goals and holding himself accountable.  Tell him also that the GPA/ACT #s are as important (some schools more) as the Ht/Wt/60/etc. #s.  And biggest asset your son has now is TIME; 6-7 months to get better.   

Assuming your son has all the fundamental skills needed to play  catcher and hit college pitching, he has 7-months before he makes his one last final push on the recruiting scene (June thru August 2018). 

If his #s in June are 175, 4.0, 30, 90, 6.99, 80, 1.9 and has the skill set req'd of a college catcher?  He will have some great options. 

The great news is he has 7-months to achieve these goals.  Good luck and welcome to the site, glad you're here!

There are camps specifically for high academic schools.  One we got an email for had about 20-30 really great academic d3s attending.  I would make one of those camps a priority. They don't have big scouting budgets so going to a camp where they know most of the kids attending have the grades is a win for them too.

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Tequila posted:

"FWIW, my son's info is as follows:

2019 Catcher
5'10" 165lbs
GPA - 3.60 / 4.0
ACT 28
Exit Velo - 84
60 - 7.02
Position Velo - 77
Consistent Pop Time - 1.9-2.1"

And I'd add one more:

"7-months to better all these numbers."

I commend you and your son for knowing what his "numbers" are in the first place.  This is the first step in having an idea of what level he should be aiming for.  But what I see is a kid who has already put himself in a solid position, but I'd be curious if he can do better in all categories before June 2018.  I bet he can. 

Numbers like these are not to be set on the mantel, these numbers are only good if he breaks all of them and gets even better.  

Your son has some solid base numbers, but the really good news is he has a good 6-7 months to make them even better.  Getting his GPA closer to the 4.0 end, ACT to 30 minimum, breaking 7.0 in the sixty, adding 10lbs more, and being a legit pop time of 1.9 are ALL things he has a lot of control over.  Tell your son he can not control what coaches think of him, but HE can control his side of things by having goals and holding himself accountable.  Tell him also that the GPA/ACT #s are as important (some schools more) as the Ht/Wt/60/etc. #s.  And biggest asset your son has now is TIME; 6-7 months to get better.   

Assuming your son has all the fundamental skills needed to play  catcher and hit college pitching, he has 7-months before he makes his one last final push on the recruiting scene (June thru August 2018). 

If his #s in June are 175, 4.0, 30, 90, 6.99, 80, 1.9 and has the skill set req'd of a college catcher?  He will have some great options. 

The great news is he has 7-months to achieve these goals.  Good luck and welcome to the site, glad you're here!

I commended Tequila and his son for simply knowing what his "son's info" was, as that is the first step in the recruiting process. 

I teach HS and coach JV baseball.  One of my players is now a sophomore.  He's a solid player, definitely has a shot at playing ball somewhere in college.  He told me earlier this fall that a D-1 school had sent him a letter (I'm guessing just a generic camp invite, but I was not going to rain on his parade).  He was excited about it and I shared his enthusiasm.   I made it a point to tell him to do well in school this year that his grades would be as important as his baseball skillset these next couple years.  Last week on PG I saw a kid committed to the same school that sent my player a letter back in the fall.  The newly committed player had a 3.6 GPA and a 90mph FB.  I shared the info with my sophomore player and then asked him what his GPA was?  My player responded, "I have no idea."  I asked him what his FB topped out at this last summer and he replied, "I don't know."  Regrettfully, I rest my case.  

To be fair to my player, this is not his fault, not 100% anyway.    He is not like a lot of kids whose parents are on this site LEARNING about the recruiting process.   He probably does not know his FB velo because he has never pitched at a venue where there was a radar gun.  Just getting a velo reading is no small task and certainly not an everyday assessment for most HS baseball players.  It takes all parties: player, parents, and coaches, for one kid to navigate this process successfully.  My player, I hate to say it, really has no idea how to go about the college recruiting journey.  I will assist him any way I can, but it has to come from him and his parents first, I'm not going to force it on him.    

How can you improve and attain goals if you have no idea where you are?  Yet for many HS baseball players, the "99%" -ers (or whatever the long odds % is)  who will not play any form of college ball, I fear this is the case, and it's over before they even knew it had begun.  

Tequila, your son is lucky to have you in his life asking these questions.  And I'm sure you feel lucky too!

I’ll start with “ditto on Joe’s post.” It saves a lot of repetitious typing. As for size, yes there are exceptions to the rule. But usually there’s something about the exception that’s way above the line in some aspect of his game. Don’t try to jam a square peg in a round hole. If a baseball coach tells him the peg fits in his program, great. 

Someone mentioned STEM majors. Be real selective picking programs if STEM is a desire. Otherwise, upon arrival the coach will try to talk the player out of it. Or the player may discover he doesn’t have time for baseball and studies. My daughter was a STEM major and played softball. She had to attend summer school to take courses that were too much of a conflict with softball.

2020.2023dad posted:

I have a similar question about my 2020.

-6'1 215

-I don't have a 60 time 7.3-4 ?

-Position Velocity 78

-R-R, OF 1b (pitches on summer team but would not in college)  

-Exit velo 97 (no kidding); outstanding hitter

-GPA 3.95 (advanced AP courses ).  Practice test scores indicate  28-30 on the ACT / 1250 SAT. He is probably going to study engineering or biology (does not want to be a physician though)

We are getting the best outside training in our area in hitting, throwing mechanics and speed/agility.  And the summer teams practices twice a week.  

All sounds good, right? However, we committed to a team with a handful of his HS teammates that is with a good local organization (their B team) that has good training but the schedule really will not result in much exposure.   HS team and coach are not going to be much help. 

Should we just try to play some with better teams who might do a PG, WWBA or other high exposure or look to get picked up by a better team now?  Has anyone had success getting D1 exposure playing on an average team?  I suppose we could do a college showcase and get some numbers out there.  Or would it be better just to pick a few schools show up to their camps and see if he gets noticed?     

With his academics and test scores I think it would be wise to do Headfirst or the Stanford camp. My son did the Stanford camp and received a lot of interest from good academic D3's there. Especially if he is considering Engineering or Biology. My son is no longer playing baseball but did have some opportunities at a few D3's but decided to attend one of the Service academies to get his Engineering degree and hopefully become a pilot. You can read his story as I have posted it in the past. He did verbal to a high academic D3 but did not get through admissions. He was still getting calls from college coaches summer after his Senior year but had already accepted his invitation to his current college. All his interest came after Stanford camp.   Good luck!

I love this subject. Our last boy was a late bloomer. No interest freshman or soph years because of his size.junior year he sprouted from 5'6" to 6'. Really solid. He had great academics & was looking hard at Yale, Dartmouth, Upenn. & Patriot schools. SAT Test came & scored mid 1200's. Goodbye Yale, Dartmouth, Upenn. 2 Patriot schools I feel were stringing him along. Went to Headfirst between Junior / Senior Year. Bingo... absolute best $$ spent. Found a great coach. Had an overnight and he loved the school. Applied ED & Accepted. Got a great financial package for merit & we're about to cut a check for his enrollment for fall 2018.

Things We would do differently.

His Travel team is A Nationally Recognized team. He was on B Team.It was a huge waste of money. Played Lake Pointe and BIC Tournaments. No college coaches were there. Played at main venue Once per tournament and it was at 9:30. If you weren't on a Prime Team, it was a complete money grab.

My son emailed coaches and kept them informed by email, but he was phone scared. I should have made him call the coaches more.

I would have gone to the specific college camps instead of doing the big national tournaments. If there is interest, you will get that feedback. If you get nothing back, that speaks volumes too. Don't chase it.

Welcome to the hsbbweb Tequila - great topic!  The responses in this thread prove why this is the finest baseball site (perhaps top athletic recruiting site) on the planet.  All the best to your young man. 

A lot of great advice here.  My 2 cents....my son only received a total of 3 offers (1 was as a preferred walk on, scholarship "maybe" his jr year).  So based on this I would guess my son was at the bottom and not a "middle range" recruit interest.  There will be a program somewhere for a kid with talent and desire.  Might not be D1, D2 or D3 but a wide variety.  Keep at it, try your best and see where that leads.  The right breaks, the right situation, and hard work can do wonders.  BTW, my son had a good college baseball career and education at a D1 program, and he is still playing .  So don't give up hope.  

Trust In Him posted:

  There will be a program somewhere for a kid with talent and desire.  Might not be D1, D2 or D3 but a wide variety.  Keep at it, try your best and see where that leads.  The right breaks, the right situation, and hard work can do wonders.   

TIM is correct on this.  After watching my son and his friends go through the recruiting process I am thoroughly convinced that anyone who has the desire to play in college can find a place.  It may not be a top program, and they may not be on scholarship but there are lots of opportunities to play and those that want to can find a home.

We had two kids that graduated with my son.  Neither of them saw the field much.  One was a catcher and one was an infielder.  The catcher ended up at a D3 where he will probably ride out his career playing on the JV squad.  His goal was to play in college and he is more then happy to just say he is on a college team.  From what I have seen, he is an average hitter, but does not field his position well.

The other ended up at a D2 school.  Smaller kid, decent fielder but he doesn't have the arm to play on the left side of the field (or the outfield), nor is he a first baseman.  This pretty much limits him to 2nd base.  He found a home at a D2 school whose roster is made up of players who appear to be at his skill level.  Again he can hit for average, but is not a power hitter.  His size and strength lend itself to 1B line drives just over the infielders heads.

Though to be fair its hard to judge their playing as they did not see significant playing time and never had a chance to get into a rhythm.  When I heard about these kids moving on, I went and looked at their PBR and PG profiles.  At graduation time both of them had measurables similar to what my kid had going into 9th grade.  

I'm using these kids as examples and please don't take this as knocking those kids.  I am really happy for them as they found a way to keep playing because thats what they wanted.  I hope each of these kids finds a way to succeed as they progress through college. 

My son was a 2017 that sounds very similar to your's Tequila.  He graduated at 5'11 (though he will tell you he is 6'0") and 170 lbs.

Between his sophomore / junior year he was a solid catcher that was fast.  Hit for a very high average and had around a 2.0 pop-time. During that summer, he got no interest.  

During the next year, he grew and got quite a bit stronger.  His pop-time dropped to the low 1.9's and his 60 speed increased.  His power increased from hitting just line drive singles to hitting more gap to gap doubles and triples (with his speed).  He has NEVER hit a HR in his entire life, much to his chagrin (he has come close so many times but never got one out).

He was playing on a good showcase team and going to lots of regional events (mid-atlantic area). He got very little interest from those events, but where he got the most interest was going to the individual showcases.  If I had it to do over again, I would have spent my money on these rather than on the showcase team.  He went to two events during the summer before his senior year (Academic Top 100 and All Star Baseball Academic) and got interest from a couple D1 and several D3 schools.

In talking with the D1 schools, it was obvious he was going to be a bottom of the roster guy.  However, several of the D3 schools had real interest in him coming in and having a role right off the bat. He ended up committing to a good D3 program that is a great athletic and academic fit.

Fast forward to this fall. He has put on about 15 lbs of muscle and had a great fall season. His coach told him that he was the #2 catcher on the depth chart heading into the spring season behind their Sr. captain...so don't think that with his size and position he won't be able to find a home at the next level.  Sure, it may not be at Vandy...but he will find a place.

One bit of advice I would give is to see what return you are getting from the recruiting services you are paying for.  My son's hitting coach (head baseball coach at D1 school) said he NEVER looked at those sites, and in fact, wouldn't even read emails generated from those sites.  I just went to a lacrosse showcase with my younger son this weekend and a parent asked the coaches during a Q/A panel about those sites and they all said they don't use them.  They said they NEVER go on those sites looking for players and that they are a pain to use (have to be a member, remember password, etc.).  They said they don't like the "middle man approach" and would rather just get emails from your son (using HIS email address), rather than emails generated from those sites.

Good luck to your son and enjoy his HS baseball...it ended way quicker than I was expecting for my son.

Buzzard05 posted:

My son was a 2017 that sounds very similar to your's Tequila.  He graduated at 5'11 (though he will tell you he is 6'0") and 170 lbs.

Between his sophomore / junior year he was a solid catcher that was fast.  Hit for a very high average and had around a 2.0 pop-time. During that summer, he got no interest.  

During the next year, he grew and got quite a bit stronger.  His pop-time dropped to the low 1.9's and his 60 speed increased.  His power increased from hitting just line drive singles to hitting more gap to gap doubles and triples (with his speed).  He has NEVER hit a HR in his entire life, much to his chagrin (he has come close so many times but never got one out).

He was playing on a good showcase team and going to lots of regional events (mid-atlantic area). He got very little interest from those events, but where he got the most interest was going to the individual showcases.  If I had it to do over again, I would have spent my money on these rather than on the showcase team.  He went to two events during the summer before his senior year (Academic Top 100 and All Star Baseball Academic) and got interest from a couple D1 and several D3 schools.

In talking with the D1 schools, it was obvious he was going to be a bottom of the roster guy.  However, several of the D3 schools had real interest in him coming in and having a role right off the bat. He ended up committing to a good D3 program that is a great athletic and academic fit.

Fast forward to this fall. He has put on about 15 lbs of muscle and had a great fall season. His coach told him that he was the #2 catcher on the depth chart heading into the spring season behind their Sr. captain...so don't think that with his size and position he won't be able to find a home at the next level.  Sure, it may not be at Vandy...but he will find a place.

One bit of advice I would give is to see what return you are getting from the recruiting services you are paying for.  My son's hitting coach (head baseball coach at D1 school) said he NEVER looked at those sites, and in fact, wouldn't even read emails generated from those sites.  I just went to a lacrosse showcase with my younger son this weekend and a parent asked the coaches during a Q/A panel about those sites and they all said they don't use them.  They said they NEVER go on those sites looking for players and that they are a pain to use (have to be a member, remember password, etc.).  They said they don't like the "middle man approach" and would rather just get emails from your son (using HIS email address), rather than emails generated from those sites.

Good luck to your son and enjoy his HS baseball...it ended way quicker than I was expecting for my son.

Good response. Thanks. What are you referring to as “recruiting services”?  Does that mean a paid consultant or do you mean something like PBR or PG who rank players and, teams?    Just trying to decide what to spend limited resoursces on not start a debate. Thx 

There are services that do all that for your kid. The one we worked with gave us advice on how to do it ourselves, which seemed much more productive. They did build my son's web site for him and were VERY detailed about his video, but they aren't in the business of direct coach contact. 

Buzzard05 posted:

My son was a 2017 that sounds very similar to your's Tequila.  He graduated at 5'11 (though he will tell you he is 6'0") and 170 lbs.

Between his sophomore / junior year he was a solid catcher that was fast.  Hit for a very high average and had around a 2.0 pop-time. During that summer, he got no interest.  

During the next year, he grew and got quite a bit stronger.  His pop-time dropped to the low 1.9's and his 60 speed increased.  His power increased from hitting just line drive singles to hitting more gap to gap doubles and triples (with his speed).  He has NEVER hit a HR in his entire life, much to his chagrin (he has come close so many times but never got one out).

He was playing on a good showcase team and going to lots of regional events (mid-atlantic area). He got very little interest from those events, but where he got the most interest was going to the individual showcases.  If I had it to do over again, I would have spent my money on these rather than on the showcase team.  He went to two events during the summer before his senior year (Academic Top 100 and All Star Baseball Academic) and got interest from a couple D1 and several D3 schools.

In talking with the D1 schools, it was obvious he was going to be a bottom of the roster guy.  However, several of the D3 schools had real interest in him coming in and having a role right off the bat. He ended up committing to a good D3 program that is a great athletic and academic fit.

Fast forward to this fall. He has put on about 15 lbs of muscle and had a great fall season. His coach told him that he was the #2 catcher on the depth chart heading into the spring season behind their Sr. captain...so don't think that with his size and position he won't be able to find a home at the next level.  Sure, it may not be at Vandy...but he will find a place.

One bit of advice I would give is to see what return you are getting from the recruiting services you are paying for.  My son's hitting coach (head baseball coach at D1 school) said he NEVER looked at those sites, and in fact, wouldn't even read emails generated from those sites.  I just went to a lacrosse showcase with my younger son this weekend and a parent asked the coaches during a Q/A panel about those sites and they all said they don't use them.  They said they NEVER go on those sites looking for players and that they are a pain to use (have to be a member, remember password, etc.).  They said they don't like the "middle man approach" and would rather just get emails from your son (using HIS email address), rather than emails generated from those sites.

Good luck to your son and enjoy his HS baseball...it ended way quicker than I was expecting for my son.

Thanks for the insight Buzzard. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one of the recruiting services we paid for is a flat one-time fee so that is one and done. I can't cry over spilled milk on that so I'm trying to find the benefits where they might exist. The others were month to month so we could cancel those as we felt needed.

We've received varied input from coaching staff on these; some say they use it, others not so much. When my son emails, it's always from his personal email address so we don't use the messaging features built in to these for the very reason you mentioned above.

For any folks who might be reading this and considering such services, in our experience, the benefits we've seen to date are as follows (over and above posting stats, video, etc.):

1. Fairly comprehensive database of school information which provides a way to easily and centrally search various aspects about the institution. Most of these also have links to external sites referencing the school/team.

2. Notifications when your profile is viewed/followed/added and by which school and coach. This has been useful in determining what kind of attention may or may not be there (from the schools who use the services of course).

3. One resource in particular is utilized by our HS coaching staff with their network of contacts in the college space. They have the ability to promote and certify the player's profile and content. In my son's case, this has resulted in a couple of follows which, to those unfamiliar with how most of these work, simply means that the coach(es) will get a notification when something is updated on the profile e.g. video, stats, transcripts, game schedules, etc.

4. Some of these offer a school matching function which draws from their database and compares it to preferences your student sets such as location, size, religious affiliation, desired major(s), GPA, test scores, and athletic stats, to come up with a list of schools based on match percentage (higher being more closely aligned with your profile and preferred college experience). The benefit here for us is basically narrowing down the options which in many cases involved schools we didn't know about or might not have ever thought of.

In fairness, and as I mentioned previously, he has received a limited amount of interest to date and no direct (one-to-one) contact from coaches, even in response to emails sent, so all of the benefits I listed above might be for naught in the end.

2020.2023dad posted:

Buzzard05 posted:

One bit of advice I would give is to see what return you are getting from the recruiting services you are paying for.  

Good response. Thanks. What are you referring to as “recruiting services”?  Does that mean a paid consultant or do you mean something like PBR or PG who rank players and, teams?    Just trying to decide what to spend limited resoursces on not start a debate. Thx 

2020.2023 not to speak for Buzzard, but he is referring to the online websites that charge between $15 - $30 a month that allow you to post your sons info as well as videos online.  Im not going to name them but if your kids are into sports they most likely are popping up on our facebook and other feeds.

They claim to help in recruiting by providing your information to many colleges.  They do that, but most (if not all) colleges only use this information for sending out camp invites and revenue generation.  Its rare that a kid is recruited based on a profile on these sites.  Everything they do can be done by your son and his results will far surpass those of these websites.

PBR and PG are different.  They provide actual data that was gathered and verified at their events.  These sites are used by colleges to verify data and recruiting, though I would guess that most coaches are not sitting there combing through their data every day.  They will use it for their top lists as well as to verify the information provided by your son is correct.  If PGSTAFF is still around he may pipe up and give us some more insight into how the site is used by the RCs.

What IOWAMOM is references is a service that helps your son organize his information and get it online.  They will help with putting together all the info in a useable format and will provide guidance on how your son should use that information to market himself.  These services have benefit if they are providing a service that you can not complete by yourself either due to time or lack of knowledge.  Think of these services like consultants as at work.

2020.2023dad posted:

Good response. Thanks. What are you referring to as “recruiting services”?  Does that mean a paid consultant or do you mean something like PBR or PG who rank players and, teams?    Just trying to decide what to spend limited resoursces on not start a debate. Thx 

My apologies if that comment derailed the topic.

I was referring to those sites that serve as just a database of "prospects", many of which allow you to contact the coaches "from" that site.  The baseball (and lacrosse) coaches that I have had contact with (granted, a very limited amount of coaches) have all said they don't use those services and don't feel they provide good return on your investment.  (Some of those sites send you emails telling you a coach searched for you player or messaged your player...and then you have to pay a fee to see which coaches they were.)  Both the baseball and lacrosse coaches said that the recruiting environment is becoming somewhat "predatory" with companies popping up just looking to take your money without providing a real valuable service.

My comment was made to just let you know what I had heard from those coaches, and to evaluate whether you are spending money on something you could be doing yourself in terms of research/contacting coaches.

I was not talking about PG or PBR. 

Thanks for the responses.  I believe we've been contacted by some and I've pretty much ignored them.  PG and PBR always come highly recommended and I did not think they did any direct contact, just held events and provided great information, rankings, good data to benchmark etc.  Note quite there yet  

2020.2023dad posted:

Thanks for the responses.  I believe we've been contacted by some and I've pretty much ignored them.  PG and PBR always come highly recommended and I did not think they did any direct contact, just held events and provided great information, rankings, good data to benchmark etc.  Note quite there yet  

Even though this is somewhat adjacent to my original topic, I feel I need to chime in here. I don't have firsthand experience with PG so I can't comment there, but I will say that our state "chapter" of PBR definitely has its cons. First, it is definitely a money-making endeavor so I hope nobody thinks that they're somehow more interested in the kids development and recruitment than any other service that takes money for offering tools, measurements, and statistics to help in this area. Second, the PBR in my state (or at least my area of the state) is affiliated (unofficially, but everyone knows it) with a "baseball academy" that fields tournament teams of several different age groups and abilities. The players on these teams clearly get top billing and ranking on the PBR site so this almost forces parents of other kids to register their kids for a PBR event on a somewhat regular basis just to be included and searchable in their database. My son has attended three PBR events over the past two years and none of them have been particularly impressive. Two of the three were more like a factory processing line; not enough warm-up, a lot of standing around and, when it's your turn, get through as quickly as possible. At $175.00 a pop for a position player, that seems to be a money grab to me. One of the events was touted as "invite-only" but as the event date drew nearer they were soliciting for attendees. I'm sorry to take this down a negative path but that's been our experience and I don't want folks going into things with the impression that one sport-specific service is somehow more altruistic that another. All the ones I've seen have a bottom line to consider.

I think baseball teaches a lot of the lessons necessary specific to the mid-tier player in the midst of the recruiting process...

You will fail (get a lot of "no"s and no response) many times.  You gotta be able to flush and get the next one, each time giving full effort and expecting to succeed.

If you keep working hard (and smart), good things will happen.  

Get good "coaching" regarding your strengths and weaknesses.  (get honest, qualified neutral party to evaluate so you are fishing in the right pond).

Passion and persistence matter.

Don't just step in the box and hope good things happen.  Have a good, focused plan.

See the whole field.

Get a lot of quality reps - one of the most common mistakes I see with mid-tier players/parents in the recruiting process is the tendency to just follow one lead and wait.  There is a little bit of interest shown or a plan to attend a camp at a future date and they think that their work is done for now and they should just wait to see what comes of that one interested party or that one event.  Once the player is in recruiting mode, he has to continue to hit from all angles, expecting those several "no's", no responses and string-alongs and having several other logs on the fire.