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247 replies

Report on the "New" bats

H HighCheese100+ posts
Watched a couple of scrimmage games this weekend with the new bats, and I love them. A mis-hit ball sounds just like its supposed to--****. Also saw a monster HR from what do you know, a good hitter who squared it up. Saw line drives that landed in front of the OF players like they are supposed to instead of rolling to the wall and ground balls that could actually be fielded, and saw very few if any cheap hits. They will take many hits away from players that really didnt deserve them in the first place, and when a pitcher makes a quality pitch, he will actually get the batter out. What a concept. As a pitchers family, we take a guy with a bat in his hand as an insult on a very deep and personal level, so its about time they stopped being rewarded for inferior swings and the pitchers dont have to worry quite as much about being killed when they make a mistake.As was already said, good hitters will still hit, the players it will effect the most are the marginal ones. Just my pennys worth, but like I said, I really dont like hitters anyway. Its bad enough that the strike zone is the size of a dinner plate, this just gives the pitchers out there a fighting chance to make it out of the third inning. It will be interesting to look at this again in June to see exactly what effect it has had, but the early returns are good as far as I can see.
trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
Guys..... this is a quote from the website linked above... can you believe this ????

"Another consideration is the potential legal issues that come with shaving. If you were to injure someone using a shaved bat you most likely will be sued and banned from your league or association. It's very easy to determine if a bat has been shaved or not. You simply just remove the end cap and look inside. You will be able to see the lathe marks on the inside of the barrel. By rolling your bat you will not be able to tell that the bat has been altered at all. For this reason we will ask you to sign our disclaimer to ensure we are not held liable for any injuries caused by improper use of a shaved bat."

What's next... a website that says, "we will rob a bank for you; of course if we get caught you will go to jail"?????????????????
VectorVector1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:


When I was in HS a guy throwing upper 80's dominated hitters. A guy throwing in the 90's was a phenom that only got beat by errors or walks. This kind of velo vs a hs hitter with a wood bat was simply dominating against hs hitters. All you have to do is look at the record book and the era's , wins . K's , etc etc.


I agree, and even though I played in the late 70's, it was rare that anyone was throwing in the 90's, even in MLB. In those days Nolan was a freak, and no HS kid was on par velo wise with MLB pitchers. Anyone who could throw in the 80's with one other decent OS pitch was dominate in HS.
These days you have HSers who are in the low 90's and still get racked by hitters with metal bats. Much of that has to do with how the game is called.

quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:

I would like to hear from some parents of college and hs players in reference to my post. As well as coaches. Do you agree , is this what you see? I know its what I see. And I am not saying I have a problem with it. I will though if these bats are found to perform like wood and we keep a metal bat strike zone.


There is no question that your observation is accurate as I see it at the HS level all the time. My kid loves to come inside, yet he rarely gets the call even if it is on the inner 1/3 of the plate. Conversely he can live outside a couple inches off the plate. He is pretty good at recognizing where the ump will give him the call and goes there. However his favorite umps are the ones who will let him pitch inside. He loves to have the batter bail out only to be rung up on an inside strike. Needless to say, that does not happen very often with the way the games are called.
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Last edited by Vector
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
quote:
Unbelievable! When will it ever end?



Honestly, it probably won't.For some reason cheating has crept into atletics and many other areas of life and I think it will continue.It is sad that players feel they have to cheat to have an edge.Unfortunately this has been demonstrated by the pro athletes.I would bet if some players can figure a way to give these bats more pop, they will.


My own son hasnt received new bats yet, so he is swinging wood.He doesn't mind it and thinks it will be fine.So time will tell.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
I agree floridafan. I personally think this is much to do about nothing. Summer and fall ball are mostly wood games and I don't ever hear discussions about how the game is changed and pitchers do this and batters do that and who will succeed or not. Speed is still speed and power is still power. Pitchers have the inside part of the plate and hitters have to adjust. Players will do what they do, and if their game is good enough they will have success.


The one difference I did notice in wood bat games is that the slap type hitter, maybe the smaller guys who rely on slapping the ball the other way or punching it threw the infield sometimes have trouble adjusting to wood because the ball comes off the bat slower. A couple I know had great HS years doing that but their game didn't play in wood bat tournaments.

But baseball is baseball no matter what you hit with. The best players will use wood eventually, so why not use wood, or a reaonalbe faxsimile, in college?
Last edited by fillsfan
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by fillsfan:
I agree floridafan. I personally think this is much to do about nothing. Summer and fall ball are mostly wood games and I don't ever hear discussions about how the game is changed and pitchers do this and batters do that and who will succeed or not. Speed is still speed and power is still power. Pitchers have the inside part of the plate and hitters have to adjust. Players will do what they do, and if their game is good enough they will have success.


The one difference I did notice in wood bat games is that the slap type hitter, maybe the smaller guys who rely on slapping the ball the other way or punching it threw the infield sometimes have trouble adjusting to wood because the ball comes off the bat slower. A couple I know had great HS years doing that but their game didn't play in wood bat tournaments.

But baseball is baseball no matter what you hit with. The best players will use wood eventually, so why not use wood, or a reaonalbe faxsimile, in college?

Good points.

From what I have observed, there are "metal bat" all-americans out there at the pre-high school, high school, and college levels. Guys whose game is a product of metal alone (like metal slap hitters mentioned above) and therefore does not translate in any manner to wood (or wood facsimile).

One thing to keep in mind, even if they do come up with a metal or composite product that completely emulates wood performance, the inside part of the plate may still not be a great place to throw for the average college or high school pitcher. For instance, unless they model the breakage characteristics of wood onto the metal bats as well, guys will likely still be able to fist inside balls off their hands (without the same worry of sawing off their bats) for potential hits. Moreover, if there is less pop in the "improved" metal bat as is initially being reported, some of these fist shots may actually "nub in" for more "cheap" infield hits than before. Either way, guys having the ability to "slap and nub" their way on base might still be able to put up impressive numbers - even with "lower performance" metal.
P Prime91,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by gitnby:
Anyone seen any reports or studies on temperature affecting the new bats?

Spring games can be brutally cold for some College games!

Any sting or variance in performance when cold?

Speaking of which, is it legal to heat up a bat before you use it?
Maybe an electric blanket-type thingy?


All metal and composite bats, in the past, issued "disclaimers" regarding cold weather usage. I would assume these, since they are still metal, will have similar limitations.

They sell "bat warmers" for those things although I haven't seen an electric device. I certainly wouldn't advise electric on metal in any conditions but especially damp or wet wintery/early spring days! The jolt you get may be more than what you wanted from the bat!
Last edited by Prime9
gitnbygitnby100+ posts
[/QUOTE]They sell "bat warmers" for those things although I haven't seen an electric device. I certainly wouldn't advise electric on metal in any conditions but especially damp or wet wintery/early spring days! The jolt you get may be more than what you wanted from the bat![QUOTE]


That would give whole new meaning to the terms "trampoline effect" and a bat with a lotta "pop"!
WklinkWklink500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by floridafan:
http://www.batrolling4u.com/bat_shaving.html

Unbelievable! When will it ever end?



Nope. I'm sure that if everyone went to wood there would be corking services available.

Cheating is a part of baseball, just like it is with any sport really. Anytime you have a contest that requires skill with an object you will find someone willing to mess with the rules to gain an advantage. It doesn't matter if someone doctors a ball or alters a bat, it will happen.

What should happen to anyone knowingly using an altered bat is a year ban from high school baseball. That would be very hard to explain to a college or pro recruiter.
H HighCheese100+ posts
So I just looked at that site mentioned above for altering the bats and all I can say is what a bunch of scumbags. Anyone using a shaved bat should be sued and banned for life from whatever level they are at. Gamesmanship, such as Jeter a couple of weeks ago is just that, no one is facing injury from it. This has the potential to seriously hurt someone. You never want someone to get hurt, but I really do hope that some lawyer out there is somehow affected by one of these cheating, talentless fool players, and takes that player, his family and this company and all like it for everything they have or ever will have. This is the hitting parallel to throwing at someones head with a 100mph fastball, and none of us would just brush that off as just part of the game. The bat companies may be able to come up with a way to tell if an endcap has been removed, and that would be a good thing. Read some of the testimonials on that site and they say things like "have tryouts this weekend.." and "im not a hr hitter, but i am now thatnks to..." If you need to shave your bat to make a team or hit a HR, you stink anyway and you should take up a new sport or perhaps take an ethics class, and any parent that would do this for their kid is a, well I really cant say here, but you get the point. My player is in college now, so he can fight his own battles, but if i saw this in a LL or HS game, I would find out just how durable these shaved bats are. Sorry for the venom.
floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
It is pretty crazy the lengths folks will go to!

I spoke with my son yesterday, he indicated that the new bats s u c k (Demarini) and that he has significantly more pop with wood. He has been hitting 3 or 4 out regularly with wood, the best he could do was take one off the wall with the new bat. Maybe there is an adjustment period, but I had assumed that if he was going yard with wood, he should at least have similar results with these new aluminum bats.

No worries or concerns though...it is what it is...

I can hardly wait for the scrimages, October 11th is the first I hear...I am chomping at the bit to see my guy play again...JUCO was much more open and therefore it was easier to get my "Fix"!
H hsballcoach100+ posts
HighCheese has great moral sense and I agree with you. I will let it be clear that any of my players using a bat that has been shaved or rolled will face removal from the team. These changes to bats have not been implemented to just affect the long ball, they are to keep players safe while they play the game the right way. Knowing this and still cheating is unacceptable. I think all coaches have a responsibility to let kids understand why these changes are taking place (safety.) Young kids will not think about this if it is not pointed out. They will be thinking about homeruns and hits being affected. That is where we teach our youth about choices affecting others around them.
C CaBB1,000+ posts
Every baseball message board I read has lengthy discussions about the new bats being inferior to what was used previously.
Funny thing though when talking to my son and his friends they've already moved on and are just hitting with wood or the new bats and not complaining. I think they're more adaptable than we are! And if they're not Cal Berkeley baseball players they should be thanking their lucky stars that they still have a bb program to play for.
S SchoonyrobertMember
Perhaps this has been covered, but I am starting to see the new BBCOR bats coming out. Funny thing is, the price....

In my opinion, many were willing to pay the $300-$400 cost of a 'hot' BESR bat because of the technology advancement of the metals and the core/wall design. Basically, we were paying for hits when our kids had poor swings and made poor contact. Now, these BBCOR bats are probably much like the metal bats you can buy at Walmart for $30-$50. When is the baseball community going to get smart and not let the bat manufacturers get away with charging these outrageous prices? It just amazes me these BBCOR bats are hitting the market with the same price tags as the BESR bats.
1baseballdad1baseballdad100+ posts
quote:
When is the baseball community going to get smart and not let the bat manufacturers get away with charging these outrageous prices? It just amazes me these BBCOR bats are hitting the market with the same price tags as the BESR bats.




I guess there are a few ways to look at this. A $300 BBCOR bat is equivalent to buying 6 $50 wood bats. Depending on the amount of ball being played, a player could easily blow through 6 in a year so it's a wash.

Personally, I see no reason to pay any more than this for a bat that is going to perform like they are saying. If people keep paying $300.00 to $400.00 for the bats, nothing changes. With the small amount of BBCOR bats on the market, manufactures can charge what they want right now. The only ones that will use them this year are colleges (free from manufacture sponsorship) and California High Schools.
S SchoonyrobertMember
Yeah, I understand your point about not having to buy so many wood bats, but we were paying for the expensive metals and design, not just stock aluminum (which is probably what we will be getting with the BBCOR models). The bat manufacturers are going to make a killing.

I also wonder why the BESR bats are not coming down in price. The demand for them should be going down with the NCAA ruling. Many parents I have spoken with are not aware of the new rules for 2010 (NCAA and California) and 2011 (High Schools). It doesn't seem the word is getting out.

Nowhere in any catalog does it state, "This BESR bat will be outlawed this year in NCAA and next year in high school." Can't everyone be a little more forth-coming with information on the new rules?
Last edited by Schoonyrobert
MTHMTH10,000+ posts
Nobody will change to wood. Even though they have been toned down the new bats still give hitters an advantage over wood. With wood balls hit off the fist and the end of the bat frequently end up in a pile of splinters, and an easy out. The new bats still give the batter a chance at a cheap hit when they get fooled, or can't get around on a ball.

quote:
Originally posted by scdigger:
So, do you think we'll actually see any colleges actually change to wood? I just can't understand, the idea that they are trying to make the aluminum bats more like wood...why don't they just use wood???
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
quote:
Funny thing though when talking to my son and his friends they've already moved on and are just hitting with wood or the new bats and not complaining. I think they're more adaptable than we are! And if they're not Cal Berkeley baseball players they should be thanking their lucky stars that they still have a bb program to play for.



I agree.Nothing the players can do but adapt.It is what it is. And 100% agree with the fact that we should be happy our sons schools have kept their programs.I am forever grateful for the way my son has been treated with his injury.USC takes very good care of their athletes.
gonyardgonyard10+ posts
quote:
Gamesmanship, such as Jeter a couple of weeks ago is just that, no one is facing injury from it. This has the potential to seriously hurt someone. You never want someone to get hurt, but I really do hope that some lawyer out there is somehow affected by one of these cheating,


This goes to the original issue of why the bats have been banned, "SAFETY",

Now because we are in the year 2010 I have to make sure I add that I feel for all those that have serious injuries from the legal juiced metals (batmaker fault, greed), and believe that those bats should have been banned a long time ago. The norcal player led to Sacramento lawmakers getting involved before an epidemic of more critical injuries occurred.

My point is that now with the community calling for the return of inside strikes, well it strikes me as odd that those that hang their hat on safety now want the inside strike. Hmmm? HS kids that throw
85+ and now getting a free pass to throw inside scares me way more than the line drive off the bat towards the pitcher. The majority of HS pitchers do not have command or control to not hit the batter. So now we are creating another safety issue for the lawmakers to get involved with. More laws more rules which will have repercussions as well.

Safety is what drove the bus on the bat changes not the "tradition of the game (wood bat)".

My son at times pitched in HS and it scared the death out of me with these rolled composites that performed like the old titanium in softball. But how many of us parents made a "reasonable persons decision" to have our pitcher wear a batters helmet with a mask when they pitched?? In Ca I never saw one. But you go to a mens slo pitch softball game and the pitchers are wearing masks and padding to protect themselves. This never happened 10 years ago.

My vote, allow metal bats and wood , your choice. Why metal because I am to experienced not to know that if they go to wood the bat companies and wood suppliers will figure out a way to create a wood bat that retails for $99 minimum and that they will market it as providing that edge that all players need. I want the competition and choices to be able to save money. Allow the metals to perform a little better than wood just so it does keep a little difference in the game from HS to college to pro.

Finally, instead of all of us experts and traditionalists lets get the high schoolers and college players involved and have a national vote on this via the internet and let them and not all of those with agendas, biased opinions, etc choose what they want!!!!
P Prime91,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Hit It Here:
We were invited to watch a D1 pracvtice Saturday for a school interested in my son. They were all using the Demarini. We saw many shots go out . Coach said they feel there is about a 10% differance, but a learning curve.



From what I've seen thus far about 10% distance drop is probably accurate. Which, by the way, is huge "as the ball flies." They will require the same adjustment, it appears, as they must make every Summer when picking up Wood again.
PD PA Dino500+ posts
The composite bat moratorium put a damper on the bat rolling enthusiasts but those same folks cut their teeth on bat shaving and those skills will again be at a premium. I'm not saying that i think it is an epidemic but I suggest that it is regional based on the history of industry in an area. However, the internet has made it easy to find accomplices willing to modify your bat for you no questions asked about where it will be put to use. I could find a hundred places to shave your bat within five miles and their is nothing illegal about doing so. What you do with it is your business, right?

If the NCAA, NJCAA, or NAIA has an investigative plan in place for bats involved in serious injury incidents, I haven't heard about it. Believe me, anyone willing to put a shaved or rolled bat in play has a plan to get it off the field or switched before anyone asks to look at it. When a player goes down, isn't it revolting to know that someone could care less about the injured player and his only thought is "get rid of that bat." I'm just saying, it happens and I don't think anyone has ever been prepared to prevent the bat from disappearing and investigate it. We'd all rather just chalk it up to the common risks of the game.
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