A lot will be answered by the coach willing to take on the challenge. If it's one of the rising stars I'll go with the program rebounds. If they struggle to find a coach, who knows what happens. I'm guessing there are rising stars who want the challenge. It will cost the school a long term contract.quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
I have no connection to PSU. I am not emotional about the future of the football program at all. I am a little emotional about those kids though. I also have been around big time college baseball for many years. I know many college baseball coaches. I have seen recruiting take hits for years at some schools because of incidents that are not even on the scale compared to this. I know kids who will not even look at certain schools because of things we as adults would never even think about.
What happened at PSU is on a scale of atomic bomb proportions. The bomb has went off. The radiation will linger around for decades to come. The football program will not reload. No kid with options in the big 10 will want to be associated with the stigma "radiation" that is going to linger for years and years to come. They NCAA can't do anything to PSU. It would be like dropping a water balloon on Hiroshima after the A-Bomb went off.
Flash:
Per TMZ (I know)
The Trustees are trying to save the Saturday game, where they might pull off a high-wire act to save the school.
quote:Mike McQueary has reportedly informed the Penn State football players that he's currently in protective custody and "double fisting" alcohol.
McQueary reportedly told the team, "I wanted to let you guys know I'm not your coach anymore. I'm done.”
Per TMZ (I know)
The Trustees are trying to save the Saturday game, where they might pull off a high-wire act to save the school.
If PSU was the only option and only path to the NFL then of course. But imagine what the talk of every PSU game is going to be the entire telecast. For years to come. Everytime someone see's that uniform the image in their head is going to be a "shower" a "grown man" an "innocent little boy" a "grown man who was a coward" a "cover up" an "event that will not be able to be swept away" no matter how many wins you have in the past.
They might be able to get a great "rising star." Some guy who just wants the chance to coach big time ball. The problem is your only as good as the players you can bring in. They ain't coming. No way. Not with all the other options out there who don't have THIS stigma attached to them. And that would be every program in the nation except PSU.
Skyler Mornhinweg won't comment on Penn State commitment
But what if his father is offered the head coaching job? They save a top recruit. It would mean a former NFL coach and offensive coordinator as head coach to help recruiting.
We won't know the end result for a couple of years. Even if they rebound I expect an emotional hangover from this weekend through next season. I wouldn't take Penn State and twenty points this weekend. Has the spread changed or is the game off the board?
But what if his father is offered the head coaching job? They save a top recruit. It would mean a former NFL coach and offensive coordinator as head coach to help recruiting.
We won't know the end result for a couple of years. Even if they rebound I expect an emotional hangover from this weekend through next season. I wouldn't take Penn State and twenty points this weekend. Has the spread changed or is the game off the board?
They could hire Urban Meyer, heck they could hire Nick Saban as the DC, Gus Malzan as the OC and its not going to matter. Close your eyes and visualize PSU. What do you see? I know what I see. The same thing McQuery saw that day. And so will every kid who is recruited to play there. And more importantly so will every parent of every player recruited to play there. And do you think its going to brought up during recruiting by other coaches and alumni? Hey kid just Google it. Hey Mrs Smith do you really want your son to go there? Just Google it.
Actually, if Joe survives, he will most definitely be in the courtroom. In Federal, State or Civil court, or all three. The court of public opinion pales in comparison. Even if Sandusky pleads, this case will be litigiously pursued.quote:Originally posted by RJM:
... Paterno won't be going to trial in court. But his legacy has already been doomed in the court of public opinion.
No doubt, this is only the tip of the iceberg.
GED10DaD
Some are going to say the problem is big money, etc etc. No doubt it is an influence. But the real problem is top administration not putting athletics in it's proper role and having control over it's cash cow.
I could name some top schools that play big time sports whose presidents never would have allowed their cash cows to run out of control like this. It's a failure of leadership.
I could name some top schools that play big time sports whose presidents never would have allowed their cash cows to run out of control like this. It's a failure of leadership.
Recovery from murder scandal:
Baylor's recovery culminated in 3 straight postseason appearances: an at-large NCAA Men's Tournament berth in March 2008, an NIT championship game appearance in March, 2009, and a trip to the NCAA tournament's Elite Eight in March, 2010. In the previous 17 years prior to 2008, BU made one postseason appearance (a first round exit of the NIT in 2001).
Baylor's recovery culminated in 3 straight postseason appearances: an at-large NCAA Men's Tournament berth in March 2008, an NIT championship game appearance in March, 2009, and a trip to the NCAA tournament's Elite Eight in March, 2010. In the previous 17 years prior to 2008, BU made one postseason appearance (a first round exit of the NIT in 2001).
You're right. The president was fired.quote:Originally posted by igball:
Some are going to say the problem is big money, etc etc. No doubt it is an influence. But the real problem is top administration not putting athletics in it's proper role and having control over it's cash cow.
I could name some top schools that play big time sports whose presidents never would have allowed their cash cows to run out of control like this. It's a failure of leadership.
Can't you just see the potential recruits taking a tour... "...and here's the shower..."
... it's going to be tough
... it's going to be tough
quote:Originally posted by 55mom:
Can't you just see the potential recruits taking a tour... "...and here's the shower..."
... it's going to be tough
2012 recruits sign in February. Tom Bradley will begin recrecruiting very soon. They will lose a bunch of committs.
Cars.com today withdrew sponsership of PSU games on ESPN.
quote:You're right. The president was fired.
Fired by a group that makes the Police Chief in Casablanca look honorable. A bunch of wiesels.
My guess is at least 50% of them knew about it or had heard many rumors regarding the Sandusky Showers.
As the church lady said, "how convenient."
My goodness someone remarked on here about the Sandusky Ice Cream cone that was sold locally. If the local ice cream shop knows about the creep, please save us from the shock expressed by the hypocrites on the board. PSU.
quote:
The first one opens the floodgate. The exodus has begun.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:quote:It's a Big Ten school.
For now.
If the outrage meter stays hot, the other 9 (err 11) may decide they no longer want to be associated with them.
Per the Posnanski SI article:
quote:3. We are in a top-you world where everyone is not only trying to report something faster but is also trying to report something ANGRIER. One guy wants Joe Paterno to resign, the next wants him to be fired, the next wants him to be fired this minute, the next wants him to be fired and arrested, the next wants him to be fired, arrested and jailed, on and on, until we’ve lost sight of who actually committed the crimes here.
We are still in this phase. Other colleges must show their outrage in some manner... but how?
Prison State U. will be lucky to be a .500 team in the MAC in five years. I just became a Nebraska fan.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:quote:Originally posted by RJM:
I'm staying level headed and avoiding an emotional overreaction.
I suspect there will be some overlap in the timing of everyone's reactions.
That indictment is going to overlap a lot of things for a long time for me. After reading it, don't you feel like you need brain bleach so you can unread it?
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
They could hire Urban Meyer, heck they could hire Nick Saban as the DC, Gus Malzan as the OC and its not going to matter. Close your eyes and visualize PSU. What do you see? I know what I see. The same thing McQuery saw that day. And so will every kid who is recruited to play there. And more importantly so will every parent of every player recruited to play there. And do you think its going to brought up during recruiting by other coaches and alumni? Hey kid just Google it. Hey Mrs Smith do you really want your son to go there? Just Google it.
I see the Fukushima of college football.
For me a key underlying aspect to this disgrace that I don't understand is the relative lack of outrage for what happened to these boys. I know people are upset but I keep going back to the point that had this disgrace happened to young girls (including the institutional years long cover up), parents like us would have gone to that campus and burned down the buildings with those who participated in the cover up still inside. That would have been the extent of the justifiable rage.
Given what happened and the lack of adult concern exhibited by those in power, we still have students rioting in favor of a contributor to a rape coverup and we have some say that Joe Pa should still be on the sideline and some say McCreavy did all that was required of him.
I'm absolutely certain that had the victims been girls and not boys, that those have made those comments would feel differently.
And I don't understand why that is the case and what that says about our society.
Given what happened and the lack of adult concern exhibited by those in power, we still have students rioting in favor of a contributor to a rape coverup and we have some say that Joe Pa should still be on the sideline and some say McCreavy did all that was required of him.
I'm absolutely certain that had the victims been girls and not boys, that those have made those comments would feel differently.
And I don't understand why that is the case and what that says about our society.
I completely agree igball.
The Grand Jury Report is overwhelming.
Hasn't anyone in Happy Valley read it?
Didn't anyone ever wonder what Sandusky was up to being with one young boy after another? Sleeping in the same room at the team hotel on game nights? They would accompany him to football events, NFL games, etc. Did not anyone ever stop to think about what may be going on? He always had some young victim by his side.
Hasn't anyone in Happy Valley read it?
Didn't anyone ever wonder what Sandusky was up to being with one young boy after another? Sleeping in the same room at the team hotel on game nights? They would accompany him to football events, NFL games, etc. Did not anyone ever stop to think about what may be going on? He always had some young victim by his side.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
The Grand Jury Report is overwhelming.
Hasn't anyone in Happy Valley read it?
Didn't anyone ever wonder what Sandusky was up to being with one young boy after another? Sleeping in the same room at the team hotel on game nights? They would accompany him to football events, NFL games, etc. Did not anyone ever stop to think about what may be going on? He always had some young victim by his side.
Everyone needs to read it! Heres the link again
http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF
No one had the guts to do the right thing.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Recovery from murder scandal:
Baylor's recovery culminated in 3 straight postseason appearances: an at-large NCAA Men's Tournament berth in March 2008, an NIT championship game appearance in March, 2009, and a trip to the NCAA tournament's Elite Eight in March, 2010. In the previous 17 years prior to 2008, BU made one postseason appearance (a first round exit of the NIT in 2001).
The Baylor story was a tragedy. The case was quickly solved and a player went to jail. The coach was fired. The whole thing was over in less than a year. The Penn State cases will drag on for years in state and federal criminal and civil courts. Each case will be be played out on twitter, espn and tru tv over a decade, or more.
The slow decline of the program has begun and won't bottom out for years.
I think the early line on the suicide over-under on this thing is 2.
Sounds cynical but things are going to get very ugly for a lot of people and I think those people are only just beginning to understand that it will not be going away anytime soon.
Anyone want to take a stab at the financial liability PSU faces?
Sounds cynical but things are going to get very ugly for a lot of people and I think those people are only just beginning to understand that it will not be going away anytime soon.
Anyone want to take a stab at the financial liability PSU faces?
I have been trying to get my mind around this tragedy. What happened to the prosecutor that assembled the grand jury in 1998. A high profile person just disappears from the place he resides and works and no one wonders what happened to him? A "Sandusky" served as a dessert in the shape of a p h a l I c symbol, out in the open, no questions?
How many people are complicit here, how big is the community of Penn State?
I believe this will be the case that generates sufficient outrage to create nationwide change, if the complete truth comes out.
How many people are complicit here, how big is the community of Penn State?
I believe this will be the case that generates sufficient outrage to create nationwide change, if the complete truth comes out.
igball PSU football revenue will decline from $75 million to solid mid major $10-$20 million over the next decade and stay there.
Civil judgements will be $100-$200 million+. Gross football revenue declines will approach $1 billion over the next generation. Joe Paterno will die broke, with the exeption of his state pension.
The human cost will be immeasurable.
Civil judgements will be $100-$200 million+. Gross football revenue declines will approach $1 billion over the next generation. Joe Paterno will die broke, with the exeption of his state pension.
The human cost will be immeasurable.
I heard on the radio tonight that McQuery couldn't be fired because he is protected as a whistle blower
quote:Originally posted by njbb:
I heard on the radio tonight that McQuery couldn't be fired because he is protected as a whistle blower
You know, I heard something about that.... but didn't understand. He was not a whistle blower imo. The only thing that blew the lid off this was the High School who followed protocol. (finally!)
I give McQuery credit for telling the truth (I guess it is) to the grand jury. Like many others though, I can't wrap my mind around him catching js in the act and doing nothing...
Yeah, I would think if he blew the whistle on the cover up then he would be protected as a "Whistle blower".
I believe PA has a governmental tort claims cap that may limit judgements. There will also be statute of limitations issues with some of the claims.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
Civil judgements will be $100-$200 million+. Gross football revenue declines will approach $1 billion over the next generation. Joe Paterno will die broke, with the exeption of his state pension.
The human cost will be immeasurable.
quote:Originally posted by MTH:
I believe PA has a governmental tort claims cap that may limit judgements.
If I were a betting man, and I am, PA law is not the code that will determine judgment. In addition, it would only half-surprise me to see a 1983 issue regarding the conduct of the PSU police (not because I think it's warranted, but because I think there is case law to be made here.)
I wonder how this scandal will affect the recruiting landscape. I know that none of these incidents(as far as we know) happened in connection with recruiting but they could have. Think about it - big time FB coach in a top tier program, eager 15 or 16 year old potential recruit, parents not around.
After reading the Grand Jury report I just wonder if this type of stuff could have/did happen to older boys while at Penn State's camps. They might be too embarrassed to come forward.
Perhaps we should all take a closer look at the situations our athletes are placed in. Now before some of you guys start crucifying me for suggesting a little more parental involvement, stop and think a minute. If a parent was on a recruiting trip, do you think for just one minute that they wouldn't smell a rat when a coach had players staying in his home and sharing a hotel room with him? Even though our players are about to be out on their own away from home, it is still our parental responsibility to be watchful for predatory behavior from authority figures. And again, I've read the report and I know none of the incidents were with older guys, but they could have been. I wonder if we as a society have become so enamored with big time sports that we check our good judgment at the door. IMO a program that has nothing to hide should encourage parents/guardians to be present for most of the process. Looking back, I know that wasn't the case for us and our son. I don't think it would be the same if he was just now beginning the process. We trusted the reputation of the program and the coaching staff. Of course, our son would probably think he was going to die of embarrassment to have us around, but one day, surely, he would understand.
After reading the Grand Jury report I just wonder if this type of stuff could have/did happen to older boys while at Penn State's camps. They might be too embarrassed to come forward.
Perhaps we should all take a closer look at the situations our athletes are placed in. Now before some of you guys start crucifying me for suggesting a little more parental involvement, stop and think a minute. If a parent was on a recruiting trip, do you think for just one minute that they wouldn't smell a rat when a coach had players staying in his home and sharing a hotel room with him? Even though our players are about to be out on their own away from home, it is still our parental responsibility to be watchful for predatory behavior from authority figures. And again, I've read the report and I know none of the incidents were with older guys, but they could have been. I wonder if we as a society have become so enamored with big time sports that we check our good judgment at the door. IMO a program that has nothing to hide should encourage parents/guardians to be present for most of the process. Looking back, I know that wasn't the case for us and our son. I don't think it would be the same if he was just now beginning the process. We trusted the reputation of the program and the coaching staff. Of course, our son would probably think he was going to die of embarrassment to have us around, but one day, surely, he would understand.
Carol,
From my understanding, predators (human and wild animals) act the same. They pick off the weak and isolated. A college football recruit is neither. In this particular case, js "groomed" his prey over time.
Up until this week, I wouldn't have known Paterno if he was sitting beside me, but I did know the name was associated with football. Part of the problem appears to be exaggerated hero worship - maybe Paterno needed someone whispering in his ear, You're only human?
From my understanding, predators (human and wild animals) act the same. They pick off the weak and isolated. A college football recruit is neither. In this particular case, js "groomed" his prey over time.
Up until this week, I wouldn't have known Paterno if he was sitting beside me, but I did know the name was associated with football. Part of the problem appears to be exaggerated hero worship - maybe Paterno needed someone whispering in his ear, You're only human?
quote:
Up until this week, I wouldn't have known Paterno if he was sitting beside me, but I did know the name was associated with football. Part of the problem appears to be exaggerated hero worship - maybe Paterno needed someone whispering in his ear, You're only human?
The media has been playing him up as the most powerful person in the State of Pennsylvania. I don't think Paterno thinks of himself that way. This is a guy who has a modest house just off campus, would walk to the stadium, and still had a listing in the phonebook. He felt so bad about one of his players nearly getting paralyzed in a game that he almost resigned at that point. Doesn't sound like someone who has an exaggerated view of himself.
We do have a PSU connection (husband is a grad, two sisters-in-law work there, husband has friends who work there). My husband grew up in Centre County and he did not have the impression of Joe that the media is making him out to be.
But, to be fair, I probably should ask him about his impression of Sandusky prior to all of this.
This whole situation really saddens me greatly. I pray for all those children that were abused.
Mike Mcqueary yesterday reportedly told the team he was done and has left town.
You can only hope that from such a terrible tragedy we all become stronger and more convinced that in any "wrong" situation we step up and do the right thing. I just can't understand how so many people could have buried their heads in the sand and not reported their suspicions years ago.
quote:Wow, tears streaming down my face in silence. Feel for those players on both teams today. What a classy way to come together at the start of the game. Hoping the game can be played without interruptions & reverence shown for the victims that surround this scandal.
That was Nebraska assistant coach, Ron Brown, leading the prayer. I wouldn't be surprised if that was his idea. He is one class act.
Curious as to how those who are quick to vilify McQuery and Paterno after they had reported the incident to superiors (which is pretty much standard operating procedure for virtually any Corporation, law enforecement agency, military branch, school district etc...In the U.S and probably the world)would react to a scenario in which both McQuery and Paterno followed up on their intial reports to their superiors. "Thank you again for bringing the information forward. The University is currently involved in an ongoing investigation to determine the depth of the accusation."
Yeah, pretty much what I thought!
If McQuery or Paterno had never followed up on their inital report, it was incumbent upon the A.D and President of the University to follow through, and take the necessary action towards Sandusky. Legally, McQuery and Paterno(to date)have not been indicted. Morally they've already been crucified.
Yeah, pretty much what I thought!
If McQuery or Paterno had never followed up on their inital report, it was incumbent upon the A.D and President of the University to follow through, and take the necessary action towards Sandusky. Legally, McQuery and Paterno(to date)have not been indicted. Morally they've already been crucified.
About eight years ago the Penn State program hit mediocrity. Recruiting was down. People were pointing their finger at Paterno's age. The "Joe Must Go" campaign started. The president and a big money alum went to Paterno's home to discuss retirement. Paterno kicked them out of his house.quote:maybe Paterno needed someone whispering in his ear, You're only human?