Paterno has done many high quality human actions in his tenure at Penn State. But his legacy has been wiped out with one huge mistake. As the face of Penn State he should have made sure the Sandusky situation was cleaned up when it first surfaced. Or worse, he was part of a cover up. When a person is the face of the business/product, that's where the buck stops.quote:Originally posted by VaRHPmom:
The media has been playing him up as the most powerful person in the State of Pennsylvania. I don't think Paterno thinks of himself that way. This is a guy who has a modest house just off campus, would walk to the stadium, and still had a listing in the phonebook. He felt so bad about one of his players nearly getting paralyzed in a game that he almost resigned at that point. Doesn't sound like someone who has an exaggerated view of himself.
does anyone know what information was given to paterno ? I surely don't---
the way peoples minds are running amuck is disgraceful
the way peoples minds are running amuck is disgraceful
Joe Paterno may have a higher recognizability factor than Ben Franklin in PA. He was the face of a program that was considered all that was good about college sports. Even if he's not guilty of any criminal charges, he certainly didn't maintain enough control over the program to protect the product and a bunch of kids. How would you like to be in the position he's in now? He knows he could have done more to protect those kids even if he met the legal obligations?quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
does anyone know what information was given to paterno ? I surely don't---
the way peoples minds are running amuck is disgraceful
Paterno, Bowden and Hayes stayed too long at the fair. All three left with soiled legacies due to the last event under their tenure. Maybe all they're guilty of is getting old, delegating authority and not paying enough attention to the program. But in the court of public opinion it's enough.
congratulations to the PSU players for a great game
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
does anyone know what information was given to paterno ? I surely don't---
the way peoples minds are running amuck is disgraceful
Have you read the Grand Jury report? It's all in there.
Testimony from Paterno re Victim 2
quote:Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day [incident Friday night, reported to Paterno Saturday], a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.
I read the 23 page Grand Jury report on Sandusky a few days ago, and it made me sick to my stomach. I went to bed that evening and couldn't get that smurk/smile from the former lead assistant coach as he was being led off in cuffs out of my head. I can't imagine how those young boys (now young men)have been able to deal with this horrible situation all of these years? As a parent, it's our nature to protect our children at all costs. Sadly, in this case the parents were unable to do anything...even after the mother of one of the victims attempted to seek the truth and ultimately the system let her and her son down.
I tuned into the Penn St/Nebraska game today. Normally I could care less about these programs, unless they're playing USC, or in a bowl game in January. However, like the rest of the country, I was curious to see how the PENN ST faithful would carry themselves. The pregame was emotional, and both programs handled themselves with class, as did the fans. The game was okay, Penn St made some halftime adjustments. They had a chance to win, but Big Red held them off. The postgame interview with Jay Paterno (Joe's son and QB coach) was emotional. He is still a young man, I'm not sure where he'll be in the college football world next year? I honestly don't believe that he and the rest of Joe Pa's staff will be around after the conclusion of this season. It's a sad situation for ALL of the innocent victims in this scandal.
I tuned into the Penn St/Nebraska game today. Normally I could care less about these programs, unless they're playing USC, or in a bowl game in January. However, like the rest of the country, I was curious to see how the PENN ST faithful would carry themselves. The pregame was emotional, and both programs handled themselves with class, as did the fans. The game was okay, Penn St made some halftime adjustments. They had a chance to win, but Big Red held them off. The postgame interview with Jay Paterno (Joe's son and QB coach) was emotional. He is still a young man, I'm not sure where he'll be in the college football world next year? I honestly don't believe that he and the rest of Joe Pa's staff will be around after the conclusion of this season. It's a sad situation for ALL of the innocent victims in this scandal.
This is why we love Ron Brown. He's a great ambassador for the Lord and College Football. He was the right man to have on that field this week for this game. Hopefully the healing can begin.
Ron Brown Post Game Interview (scroll to the bottom to view the last video)
Pre Game Prayer
Ron Brown Post Game Interview (scroll to the bottom to view the last video)
Pre Game Prayer
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
This is why we love Ron Brown. He's a great ambassador for the Lord and College Football. He was the right man to have on that field this week for this game. Hopefully the healing can begin.
Ron Brown Post Game Interview (scroll to the bottom to view the last video)
Pre Game Prayer
I completely agree. I remember When Ron Brown joined the NFL and the Los Angeles Rams. A receiver with World Class speed, but couldn't catch a football. Well, his NFL career doesn't matter...he's an incredible mentor for these young men, and perhaps this horrible scandal was truly brought to the forefront this week for a reason? Thanks for posting.
For all those obsessed with the future of PSU, sleep tight. This too will pass. Anybody see where a very similar situation occured a few years ago concerning the Red Sox. Last I knew Fenway still stands. Terrible situation but save the drama. Next scandal to be reported on is sure to be brewing...
quote:Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
For all those obsessed with the future of PSU, sleep tight. This too will pass. Anybody see where a very similar situation occured a few years ago concerning the Red Sox. Last I knew Fenway still stands. Terrible situation but save the drama. Next scandal to be reported on is sure to be brewing...
Please relate the RS pedophile scandal. I must have been out sick that day. Seriously, I have no idea what you are referring to.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
That was Nebraska assistant coach, Ron Brown, leading the prayer. I wouldn't be surprised if that was his idea. He is one class act.
That was a nice job by the Huskers. I am proud of them, Tx.
it was browns idea---they noted that brown was involved with troubled kids
quote:Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
For all those obsessed with the future of PSU, sleep tight. This too will pass. Anybody see where a very similar situation occured a few years ago concerning the Red Sox. Last I knew Fenway still stands. Terrible situation but save the drama. Next scandal to be reported on is sure to be brewing...
I hope you have some evidence of this rather than just repeating rumor, or worse, making it up.
quote:The postgame interview with Jay Paterno (Joe's son and QB coach) was emotional. He is still a young man, I'm not sure where he'll be in the college football world next year? I honestly don't believe that he and the rest of Joe Pa's staff will be around after the conclusion of this season. It's a sad situation for ALL of the innocent victims in this scandal.
I agree...Everyone and anyone associated with JoePathetic has to be fired and the school has to start with a completely clean slate with outsiders not tied to the school. It's the only way.
@ JImmy03
Check the link I posted just a couple above yours,
Donald Fitzpatrick Red Sox Cubby, or just google him, it's not just made up.
Check the link I posted just a couple above yours,
Donald Fitzpatrick Red Sox Cubby, or just google him, it's not just made up.
quote:Originally posted by iheartbb:
@ JImmy03
Check the link I posted just a couple above yours,
Donald Fitzpatrick Red Sox Cubby, or just google him, it's not just made up.
I think what he's saying is that you implied there's another shoe (or dozen) still to drop, and that saying that should be substantiated.
The Judge Leslie Dutchcot who let Sandusky out on the $100,000 unsecured bail has ties to his charity.
This scandal just gets bigger and bigger...What a mess.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...-mile_n_1091461.html
This scandal just gets bigger and bigger...What a mess.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...-mile_n_1091461.html
Well, I was wrong. I thought they would cancel the game.
The game seems to have been handled tastefully.
The game seems to have been handled tastefully.
quote:Originally posted by Matt13:quote:Originally posted by iheartbb:
@ JImmy03
Check the link I posted just a couple above yours,
Donald Fitzpatrick Red Sox Cubby, or just google him, it's not just made up.
I think what he's saying is that you implied there's another shoe (or dozen) still to drop, and that saying that should be substantiated.
I believe that 20 more shoes dropped today
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
For all those obsessed with the future of PSU, sleep tight. This too will pass. Anybody see where a very similar situation occured a few years ago concerning the Red Sox. Last I knew Fenway still stands. Terrible situation but save the drama. Next scandal to be reported on is sure to be brewing...
I hope you have some evidence of this rather than just repeating rumor, or worse, making it up.
Check the link in iheartbb's post three up from yours. Due offense has been taken...thanks blue.
quote:
EEEEWWWWWW!!!!
I've always liked Bob Costas and thinks he does a great job but he is absolutely grilling Sandusky on NBC right now. He's now grilling Sandusky's lawyer. Good for him.
Haven't seen Costas' Rock Center report yet - it's still a couple hours away from airing out here on the west coast - but I'm looking forward to it. I am a big fan of Costas the interviewer - much more so than as a game broadcaster.
Couple of other kind of disturbing developments today. I think it was TPM who early in this thread, probably a week ago, observed that the $100K unsecured bail was/is a joke. Well it ]turns out that the judge who set that bail has ties to The Second Mile as a volunteer.
The Attorney General had requested $500K secured bail, electronic monitoring, and surrender of Sandusky's passport. That the judge would order something so far under the prosecutirial recommendation, especially given the multiple serious counts, certainly raises questions.
Deadspin, which has done pretty good work tracking the scandal, quoted a central Pennsylvannia attorney as saying that ordering unsecured bail in a case like this is highly unusual, to say the least.
This judge certainly should have disclosed her work with The Second Mile, if not outright recused herself. It probably doesn't mean anything, but the number of odd coincidences and twists in this case are really beginning to add up.
Another interesting article posted today was an interview with a former Penn State grad assistant who has a history as a sexually abused child and now speaks nationally on the subject. Matt Paknis said, among several interesting things, that he was "not surprised" about the Sandusky scandal, that Sandusky had always seemed to him to have "boundary" issues and found his touchy-feely style with players to be uncomfortable. He also said that he found the practice of PSU coaches showering together to be very "bizarre" and uncomfortable as well, and finally offer the opinion that Paterno knew the results of the 1999 investigation, for one simple reason: "Joe knows everything."
As many have said, this is going to get worse before it gets better. Much worse.
Couple of other kind of disturbing developments today. I think it was TPM who early in this thread, probably a week ago, observed that the $100K unsecured bail was/is a joke. Well it ]turns out that the judge who set that bail has ties to The Second Mile as a volunteer.
The Attorney General had requested $500K secured bail, electronic monitoring, and surrender of Sandusky's passport. That the judge would order something so far under the prosecutirial recommendation, especially given the multiple serious counts, certainly raises questions.
Deadspin, which has done pretty good work tracking the scandal, quoted a central Pennsylvannia attorney as saying that ordering unsecured bail in a case like this is highly unusual, to say the least.
This judge certainly should have disclosed her work with The Second Mile, if not outright recused herself. It probably doesn't mean anything, but the number of odd coincidences and twists in this case are really beginning to add up.
Another interesting article posted today was an interview with a former Penn State grad assistant who has a history as a sexually abused child and now speaks nationally on the subject. Matt Paknis said, among several interesting things, that he was "not surprised" about the Sandusky scandal, that Sandusky had always seemed to him to have "boundary" issues and found his touchy-feely style with players to be uncomfortable. He also said that he found the practice of PSU coaches showering together to be very "bizarre" and uncomfortable as well, and finally offer the opinion that Paterno knew the results of the 1999 investigation, for one simple reason: "Joe knows everything."
As many have said, this is going to get worse before it gets better. Much worse.
i hope it has gotten much better for the victoms. the lost people so far.lets not them not be forgotton.
quote:Originally posted by EdgarFan:
Haven't seen Costas' Rock Center report yet - it's still a couple hours away from airing out here on the west coast - but I'm looking forward to it. I am a big fan of Costas the interviewer - much more so than as a game broadcaster.
Couple of other kind of disturbing developments today. I think it was TPM who early in this thread, probably a week ago, observed that the $100K unsecured bail was/is a joke. Well it ]turns out that the judge who set that bail has ties to The Second Mile as a volunteer.
The Attorney General had requested $500K secured bail, electronic monitoring, and surrender of Sandusky's passport. That the judge would order something so far under the prosecutirial recommendation, especially given the multiple serious counts, certainly raises questions.
Deadspin, which has done pretty good work tracking the scandal, quoted a central Pennsylvannia attorney as saying that ordering unsecured bail in a case like this is highly unusual, to say the least.
This judge certainly should have disclosed her work with The Second Mile, if not outright recused herself. It probably doesn't mean anything, but the number of odd coincidences and twists in this case are really beginning to add up.
Another interesting article posted today was an interview with a former Penn State grad assistant who has a history as a sexually abused child and now speaks nationally on the subject. Matt Paknis said, among several interesting things, that he was "not surprised" about the Sandusky scandal, that Sandusky had always seemed to him to have "boundary" issues and found his touchy-feely style with players to be uncomfortable. He also said that he found the practice of PSU coaches showering together to be very "bizarre" and uncomfortable as well, and finally offer the opinion that Paterno knew the results of the 1999 investigation, for one simple reason: "Joe knows everything."
As many have said, this is going to get worse before it gets better. Much worse.
here is a link to Joe knows everything
I've also read that js's lawyer got a 16 year old pregnant. (if true) Takes one to know one?
This will be death by a thousand cuts for PSU, the five year slow motion train wreck.
There are some reports that Mc*****y did stop the rape. The statements seem to have come from Mc*****y himself. Does that reduce the number willing to throw the first stone?
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
"There are some reports that Mc*****y did stop the rape. The statements seem to have come from Mc*****y himself. Does that reduce the number willing to throw the first stone?"
Here is a link to the story CADad is referring to. The reporting comes from NBC's Peter Alexander, who obtained and has been tweeting snippets of an e-mail McQueary supposedly wrote to former teammates, in which he says he quotes McQueary as saying, "I did the right thing...you guys know me...the truth is not out there fully...I didn't just turn and run...I made sure it stopped...I had to make quick tough decisions...."
This isn't supported by the summary set out in the grand jury's presentment, but that doesn't mean than there wasn't more to McQueary's testimony than made that report. BUT, I would tend to believe what was (and will be) testified to under oath than what is said in a somewhat self-serving e-mail to ex-teammates and friends.
I've been critical of McQueary in this thread, but not really for failing to immediately act when he saw what he saw. Yes, like everybody, I'd like to think I would do something more than what it was originally reported that McQueary did. But as CADad and others have pointed out, statistics regarding how rarely child sexual abuse is reported, despite other statistics indicating that as many as 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys will experience some form of sexual abuse by the age of 18, show that we walk a different walk than we talk. People panic, and don't always make choices they later wish they had made at the time they have that opportunity. [And for a powerful explanation of why that might be in this exact context from somebody who grew up in the Penn State culture and knew Sandusky, watch Jon Ritchie's interview on ESPN.] I am not comfortable judging McQueary for that.
But that doesn't mean I won't judge him for failing to act at any point over the next TEN YEARS while it became obvious that his report did not result in any investigation, Sandusky still had free reign over the Penn State campus, and still had regular access to children through The Second Mile. No questions, no follow-up, nothing. THAT I am willing to judge.
McQueary is supposed to appear on the news tonight, so maybe we'll begin to get some of this cleared up.
Item 3 in Michael McMann's article discusses how McQueary's recent email isn't necessarily at odds with the GJ report.
I can't believe that Sandusky's attorney is allowing him to speak out, not a good move to try to get him to look like what he did was worng but not criminal? He shot himself. Nothing he could ever say would make him look good, keep it shut sir! How stupid is that?
This whole thing just stinks, they all knew, they all turned a blind eye, everyone, it just wasn't the few in the news.
How very very sad.
This whole thing just stinks, they all knew, they all turned a blind eye, everyone, it just wasn't the few in the news.
How very very sad.
I don't apologize for my opinions
Sandusky is a scary predator.
Paterno knew about it.
While McQueary's testimony is different from his email, he knew about it.
Paterno and McQueary didn't do anything for years. Will they be held accountable here on earth? probably not.
Humans are fascinating.
Sandusky is a scary predator.
Paterno knew about it.
While McQueary's testimony is different from his email, he knew about it.
Paterno and McQueary didn't do anything for years. Will they be held accountable here on earth? probably not.
Humans are fascinating.
quote:Originally posted by 55mom:
I don't apologize for my opinions
Sandusky is a scary predator.
Paterno knew about it.
While McQueary's testimony is different from his email, he knew about it.
Paterno and McQueary didn't do anything for years. Will they be held accountable here on earth? probably not.
Humans are fascinating.
You go girl!
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I can't believe that Sandusky's attorney is allowing him to speak out, he shot himself. Nothing he could ever say would make him look good, keep it shut sir!
This whole thing just stinks, they all knew, they all turned a blind eye, everyone, it just wasn't the few in the news.
How very very sad.
That's what I thought! I guess they are thinking that since a few men employed by Penn State accepted the "I like to shower with young boys, but nothing happened" defense, a wider national audience will? Nope, not gonna to happen.
I was shocked Sandusky spoke publicly other than a short, scripted, noncommittal apology for bringing negative attention to the university and people associated with the situation.quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I can't believe that Sandusky's attorney is allowing him to speak out, he shot himself. Nothing he could ever say would make him look good, keep it shut sir!
This whole thing just stinks, they all knew, they all turned a blind eye, everyone, it just wasn't the few in the news.
How very very sad.
I read an article about a former PSU football player, John Amaechi who now does public speaking. When announced as being from Penn State he said he paused and felt he had to address the situation.
This is the most important thing he said ...
"And 13 years of silence? Thirteen years? This is not how powerful people do things. You know what? That’s not even true. That is what powerful people do. Too many. But it isn’t what powerful people are supposed to do. I don’t hate the man. I don’t want to take away his legacy. I know what he has done. I’m aware of his philanthropy. But you can’t be a part-time man of principle. You can’t be principled 99 percent of the time and then, the one time it really counts, not be."
full story
It's intersting Sandusky never felt it was inappropriate to shower with boys when it never dawned on me to shower with my son when he was little.
It's all fine and good to throw Sandusky under the bus now. There's enough evidence to give us not in the know a reason to form an opinion. It seems pretty clear on him. But I find it interesting people want to throw everyone else at PSU under the bus. We don't know all the details of what was said/told to whom, when and how. What was seen first hand vs repeated...and we know how stories change when repeated. I would be careful about rushing to judgment on the others. I, personally, find it really hard to believe something like this goes on for ~13 years if it's black and white and everyone knows. I just don't believe that many people can be that evil and cover it up that well for so long. It's not as black and white as people want it to be.
Very good letter from a Penn State senior student ...
Paterno is also brazenly guilty of violating the moral code he supposedly spent his whole adult life constructing.
full story
Paterno is also brazenly guilty of violating the moral code he supposedly spent his whole adult life constructing.
full story
First, no one is putting the coaches who kept quiet in the same category as Sandusky. He deserves a place all his own.
Second, what many are saying is that Joe P and the others are simply failed human beings who could have helped but didn't, for whatever reasons. That isn't to say they haven't done wonderful things and may still do even greater things, but in this instance you have to see it for what it was- a failure on the part of some adults who didn't help some children who needed them.
Did anyone read the comments by exPSU assistant who happened to be a survivor of abuse earlier in his life, say that the coaches use to shower together there. He thought it was strange. I'll leave it at that.
Second, what many are saying is that Joe P and the others are simply failed human beings who could have helped but didn't, for whatever reasons. That isn't to say they haven't done wonderful things and may still do even greater things, but in this instance you have to see it for what it was- a failure on the part of some adults who didn't help some children who needed them.
Did anyone read the comments by exPSU assistant who happened to be a survivor of abuse earlier in his life, say that the coaches use to shower together there. He thought it was strange. I'll leave it at that.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
"It's all fine and good to throw Sandusky under the bus now. There's enough evidence to give us not in the know a reason to form an opinion. It seems pretty clear on him. But I find it interesting people want to throw everyone else at PSU under the bus. We don't know all the details of what was said/told to whom, when and how...."
I want to agree with you, Tx-Hunsker, and for the most part I do. But that statement is not really true of McQueary, and to a lesser extent not really true of JoePa.
We know for a fact that McQueary witnessed what he described, under oath, as **** rape of a 10-year-old. We do not know exactly what he did in the moments and even hours after he witnessed that, and we don't know exactly what he told JoePa, or Curley and Schulz, except that he said he told them in detail and that his account was the one found credible by a grand jury over a 2-3 year investigation. And we know that McQueary did not do any more than this, even after seeing that there was no investigation, that Sandusky was still given free reign of the PSU campus, and that he continued to have access to children through The Second Mile. We also know that he did not ask any follow up questions of JoePa, Curley, or Schulz, and did not speak of what he saw to any non-PSU authorities until he testified to the grand jury in 2010.
Likewise, though there is disagreement over exactly what McQueary reported to Paterno (Paterno says he stopped McQueary before he got to any specifics; McQueary says he went into all the horrific detail), the characterization of Paterno's testimony in the grand jury report makes clear that Paterno knew that there was inappropriate contact "of a sexual nature" between Sandusky and a ten year old boy in the shower. I've said this lots of times, but in what world is this not enough to know this is serious?
[It also strains credulity to think that Paterno didn't know of the 1998 investigation, and it is very reasonable to presume that it played some role in Sandusky's sudden 1999 retirement. Obviously that is not "fact" but I think those are reasonable conclusions based on what we do know of what happened, and what Paterno's role was at PSU. And if he knew that then, when he AGAIN heard a similar - but worse - story in 2002, it only makes his relative lack of action worse.]
Paterno chose only to report this to his "superior" - Curley. He may well have minimized the story in his reporting to them - we shall see. But we know he didn't confront Sandusky, at least in any meaninful way, despite HAVING to know that he continued to have contact with children, and he never followed up when Curley obviously hadn't acted. I find fault with that, as I think most reasonable people do.
These facts are pretty well established by the grand jury report, and I think they establish enough to form an opinion about McQueary's and Patnero's relative moral culpability for this. They are FAR down on the scale of culpability from Sandusky, and not all the facts are out there at this point, but that doesn't mean we don't know enough to form some preliminary judgments.