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Scandal Rocks Penn State

Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
MTH...so much of the school's athletic future is obviously beyond the control of the Board. They have lost control and abdicated authority by letting coaches throw little kids to the wolves. The school could take PR lessons from Herman Cain, as badly has they have fumbled the ball.

They can't even keep known pedophiles out of the athletic department. It's not that difficult. How can they possibly recover from this on a timely basis?

When the first recruit de-commits, Katy bar the door.
Last edited by Dad04
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by AntzDad:
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
The recruit to watch would be Slyler Mornhinweg.


I thought he verbaled to Stanford two years ago.
July 2011

PHILADELPHIA (CBS) – Skyler Mornhinweg is a modern athlete in so many ways. He’s large, mobile, possesses a cannon arm and has been practically raised on the game of football. But it’s the old-school qualities of academics and athletics—in that order—that were instilled by his parents that Skyler has always valued. It’s a reason why the prized 6-foot-3, 215-pound rising senior quarterback from St. Joseph’s Prep decided to give Penn State’s legendary coach Joe Paterno an oral commitment Tuesday morning to play football for the Nittany Lions for the 2012 season.
Last edited by RJM
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by MTH:
In my mind the key is going to be "What is Penn State without football?" Is it a serious academic institution that can survive on its own merits? Or is it nothing more than a football school. I am curious to see how the Board of Trustees, by their actions, will try to answer this question. I suspect they're wondering about this themselves.
Penn State can stand on it's academics. It's a Big Ten research university. It's not that easy to get accepted out of high school.
Last edited by RJM
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
There is MUCH more to come in this debacle. I heard a stat that said the average child abuser commits 107 crimes. We have heard of 8. Are we so naive as to believe we caught Sandusky EVERY TIME he did this? There is PLENTY more coming, I assure you.

And, by the way, why did Sandusky retire at the age of 55 when he was the top assistant coach in all of college football. Kinda strange, isn't it?
Last edited by redbird5
EdgarFanEdgarFan500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by AntzDad:
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
http://www.timesonline.com/col...ml#user-comment-area

This asks some interesting questions. From April


This Mark Madden guy was pretty much right from the beginning. Now, there is another much more disturbing article tied to this scandal. I'm not going to post the link, because it is so outrageous.


Madden was asking the right questions in April, but there is STILL no proof of much of the rumors he is writing about. He has been saying all along that Sundusky was fired in 1999 in exchange for the university's and football program's silence, and now (as igball has linked to) he is reporting the rumor that Sandusky and Second Mile were "pimping out" young boys to rich donors - the outrageous story AntzDad wouldn't link to.

I can buy the first rumor - Sandusky quit abruptly from a place where most assistants (including, to that point, Sandusky) stay for decades, even though he was widely regarded as Paterno's successor-in-waiting, and was only 55 at the time. And there are parts of the grand jury report that seem to support this: Sandusky reported emotionally told one of his victims of a meeting with Paterno, not long after the decision not to file charges in the 1998 investigation was made, in which Paterno informed Sandusky he would never be head coach, and that the victim was not to speak of this meeting.

But there's still no proof of any of this, or what Paterno knew prior to 2002 (at which point, we know that he AT LEAST knew what he testified to before the grand jury - that Sandusky had engaged in "fondling" or activity "of a sexual nature" with a child in the locker room shower). I think there is reason to SUSPECT that Paterno knew of the earlier investigation - including Paterno saying that he believed McQueary's report to be factual and truthful - and that it had something to do with Sandusky's retirement, but IMO really this is something we should wait for the results of the investigation before reporting or spreading as FACT.

That doesn't mean Paterno shouldn't have been fired. If he didn't know in 1998, he should have, and knowing what he knew in 2002 and not doing more than he did is, IMO, reason enough. BUT, we should be careful to distinguish between what is fact, what is reasonably suspected, and what is just unfounded rumor and baseless speculation.

And that is what this latest rumor is - unfounded, baseless rumor that is simply too wild to give any credence. It comes without a shred of evidence to support it. I am somewhat shocked that any mainstream media would even report it at this point.

If it proves to be true, well...wow. I will have to amend my earlier statement about this being only the biggest SPORTS scandal ever to the biggest scandal EVER. Bigger than the Catholic Church. I just cannot believe it could possibly be true.
Last edited by EdgarFan
55mom55mom1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
There is MUCH more to come in this debacle. I heard a stat that said the average child abuser commits 107 crimes. We have heard of 8. Are we so naive as to believe we caught Sandusky EVERY TIME he did this? There is PLENTY more coming, I assure you.

And, by the way, why did Sandusky retire at the age of 55 when he was the top assistant coach in all of college football. Kinda strange, isn't it?


It does make you wonder why no one picked him up... How many in the college football world had their suspicions and didn't do a thing? If you saw a middle aged man with little kids at various games and functions, wouldn't our creep-o-meter go off? If the link igball has any truth in it, Sandusky fashioned himself into a Greek god with creepy valley his Olympus.
getagoodpitchtohitgetagoodpitchtohit100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by AntzDad:
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
http://www.timesonline.com/col...ml#user-comment-area

This asks some interesting questions. From April



This Mark Madden guy was pretty much right from the beginning. Now, there is another much more disturbing article tied to this scandal. I'm not going to post the link, because it is so outrageous.

Yes there is another current article by Madden that is deeply disturbing. If you thought it couldn't get any worse......this could get even bigger and more far reaching. You can decide if you want to search out the article for yourself. The death penalty should be an option. And, yes, Madden has unfortunately been ahead of this for quite sometime.
Last edited by getagoodpitchtohit
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
And, Mcreery...so, you hand this off to your ex-coach and current boss, Paterno, back in 2002...I somewhat understand him not taking further action (somewhat). But...why do you stay around after you see nothing has been done? Why wouldn't you blow the whistle or just leave for another job? Makes you wonder if he was given an incentive to keep his mouth shut.
B 2bagger1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
55mom,

He DID interview for the UVA job when Groh left but they didn't hire him because he seemed "too dedicated" to his Second Mile charity.

The coaching fraternity is a very tight community. I am sure others knew and turned their cheek. This is gonna be ugly.


Redbord5, if the community is so tight that they turned their cheek I would hope any that did would get fired but I know better than to expect that to happen.
L like2rake1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
it amazes me how many people have all this free time to dig up "dirt"


I know, those smarmy investigative journalists! Just like those slackers Woodward and Bernstein investigating that dumb little Watergate break-in, or the journalists who snooped around all the "good cops" and uncovered the Rampart Division scandal of the Los Angeles Police Department, etc, etc, etc.....who do these slugs think they are?
C ctandc500+ posts
What is messing with my mind at the moment is the link I posted on the 4th page of this thread.


The District Attorney that decided AGAINST filing charges in 1998 (remember Sandusky retired shortly after) this DA went MISSING in 2005. As in 'POOF'.

Ray Gricar served as the district attorney for Pennsylvania's Centre County in 1998 when Sandusky was accused of sexually abusing several boys. After an extensive investigation, which included testimony by two law enforcement officers that they had overheard Sandusky admitting to showering with multiple young boys, Gricar decided no criminal charges would be filed, according to recent court documents. Sandusky retired the next year.

1994-95 - Boy known as Victim 6 meets Sandusky at a Second Mile picnic at Spring Creek Park when he is 7 or 8 years old.


1998 - Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.

Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."

Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.
The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.

June 1999 - Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.


Okay then this DA goes missing:

Then, in April 2005, Gricar disappeared.

His car was found abandoned in a Lewisburg, Pa., parking lot and his laptop's harddrive was recovered from the nearby Susquehannna River, but there was no other trace of Gricar. No clues could be gleaned from the severely damaged harddrive and despite a six year investigation that involved the FBI and international help, police have as little an idea today about what happened to the former DA as they did then.

"We literally used every single resource, national and international," Bellefonte, Pa., police chief Shawn Weaver told ABC News today. "This is baffling. He literally just disappeared off the face of the earth."


Sure it could be pure coincidence....
getagoodpitchtohitgetagoodpitchtohit100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by like2rake:
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
it amazes me how many people have all this free time to dig up "dirt"


I know, those smarmy investigative journalists! Just like those slackers Woodward and Bernstein investigating that dumb little Watergate break-in, or the journalists who snooped around all the "good cops" and uncovered the Rampart Division scandal of the Los Angeles Police Department, etc, etc, etc.....who do these slugs think they are?

Or Williams and Fainaru-Wada breaking the Balco scandal. Investigative journalist as their JOB title says.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
If you saw a middle aged man with little kids at various games and functions, wouldn't our creep-o-meter go off?


55mom,
I mentor a 12 soon to be 13 year old young man.
My goal is to take him everywhere I can where his life opportunities/limits won't currently allow.
Many, many others(not enough but many) do the same.
There is a dearth of mentors in comparison and contrast to the numbers/need/ and opportunities.
There are demonstrated benefits to positive mentoring in the lives of children.
Sandusky's conduct and actions, as reported, are those of a perverted degenerate doing harm, damage and destruction to the lives of youth.
It is a troubling world indeed when Sandusky's image/actions might create confusion with all of those who who mentor and, silently, make such positive differences.
Last edited by infielddad
YankeelvrYankeelvr100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 2bagger:
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
55mom,

He DID interview for the UVA job when Groh left but they didn't hire him because he seemed "too dedicated" to his Second Mile charity.

The coaching fraternity is a very tight community. I am sure others knew and turned their cheek. This is gonna be ugly.



Redbord5, if the community is so tight that they turned their cheek I would hope any that did would get fired but I know better than to expect that to happen.


Might need to include past PSU players as "in the know" also. A local radio personality (PSU alum) mentioned that participation in Sandusky's charity golf tournament had dropped off in recent years due to rumors...Shane Conlon was mentioned specifically.

Was this the worst kept ugly secret in college football history? Are there others???
Last edited by Yankeelvr
55mom55mom1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
quote:
If you saw a middle aged man with little kids at various games and functions, wouldn't our creep-o-meter go off?


55mom,
I mentor a 12 soon to be 13 year old young man.
My goal is to take him everywhere I can where his life opportunities/limits won't currently allow.
Many, many others(not enough but many) do the same.
There is a dearth of mentor's in comparison in contrast to the numbers/need/ and opportunities.
There are demonstrated benefits to positive mentoring in the lives of children.
Sandusky conduct and actions, as reported, are those of a perverted degenerate doing harm, damage and destruction to the lives of youth.
It is a troubling world indeed when Sandusky's image/actions might create confusion with all of those who who mentor and, silently, make such positive differences.


I know some very wonderful mentors. I believe there is a difference in taking a child to local museums, local sporting events, and being present at their events (active in a child's life) and taking a child to a bowl game and buying expensive gifts. In addition, it is my understanding that they stayed in the same room without a third person chaperon.

Please know, I realize there is a difference between mentoring and what Sandusky was doing.

I apologize to you for not being clearer. I need to step away from this topic, it is too upsetting. Don't stop mentoring.
Last edited by 55mom
EdgarFanEdgarFan500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
quote:
Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.

I'll just throw this into the fray.

.


Yeah, surprised this hasn't been talked about much here. ...


It was, by me and several others - about five pages back. Wink

It's just hard to know what to make of that report. The co-workers who say that the DA in question, Ray Gricar, was not political and wouldn't have backed off from prosecuting anyone, don't quite ring true to me. There was clear evidence of a crime in 1998, even if it was a relatively modest s*x crime (in comparison to the 2002 reports, at least), but the investigation turned up independent evidence of at least two "identical" molestations, a police tape-recorded conversation between a victim's mother and Sandusky in which he admits doing the same thing with many other boys and says he won't stop...yet the investigation just stops. Figuring out HOW many more there were is not pursued, nobody tries to find out if other boys were subjected to more serious abuse, nothing. And then Sandusky abruptly retires. This raises a lot of questions - for the police, for Paterno, for the AD, for Gricar, everybody.

I find more telling the comment at the end of the linked article, when a fellow DA says “You don’t want to go after someone high profile unless you have a compelling case.” Pure speculation, but I'd guess Gricar knew he was dealing with criminal activity, but that it was not a "compelling" enough case and he bought into promises from PSU officials that Sandusky would be dealt with. And perhaps, just perhaps, he later got some inkling of how they had "dealt" with it, and...

His disappearance - especially with (see here) the news that his county-issued laptop was found with its hard drive missing (later found, but too damaged for anything to be recoverable) and searches on his home computer turned up things like "how to fry a hard drive" and "water damage to a notebook computer" - certainly raises questions about what Gricar or possibly somebody else didn't want to be found on that computer.

Is he dead? If so, was it suicide, or homicide? Who was trying to hide what? In the end, it is all just speculation, and it may or may not have anything to do with the Sandusky case.

Something tells me, though, that the feds will take another crack at his disappearance, and that hard drive.

This case just gets more and more strange. If this was a pitch for a movie script, it would be rejected as too unbelievable. The Gricar plot line would be considered where the script "jumped the shark." The latest Madden rumor? Is there such a thing as "jump the whale?"
Last edited by EdgarFan
getagoodpitchtohitgetagoodpitchtohit100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by EdgarFan:
quote:
Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
quote:
Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.

I'll just throw this into the fray.

.


Yeah, surprised this hasn't been talked about much here. ...


It was, by me and several others - about five pages back. Wink

It's just hard to know what to make of that report. The co-workers who say that the DA in question, Ray Gricar, was not political and wouldn't have backed off from prosecuting anyone, don't quite ring true to me. There was clear evidence of a crime in 1998, even if it was a relatively modest s*x crime (in comparison to the 2002 reports, at least), but the investigation turned up independent evidence of at least two "identical" molestations, a tape-recorded admission by Sandusky in which he admits doing the same thing with many other boys and says he won't stop...yet the investigation just stops. Figuring out HOW many more there were is not pursued, nobody tries to find out if other boys were subjected to more serious abuse, nothing. And then Sandusky abruptly retires. This raises a lot of questions - for the police, for Paterno, for the AD, for Gricar, everybody.

I find more telling the comment at the end of the linked article, when a fellow DA says “You don’t want to go after someone high profile unless you have a compelling case.” Pure speculation, but I'd guess Gricar knew he was dealing with criminal activity, but that it was not a "compelling" enough case and he bought into promises from PSU officials that Sandusky would be dealt with.

His disappearance - especially with (see here) the news that he his county-issued laptop was found without its hard drive missing (later found, but too damaged for anything to be recoverable) and searches on his home computer turned up things like "how to fry a hard drive" and "water damage to a notebook computer" - certainly raises questions about what Gricar or possibly somebody else didn't want to be found on that computer.

Is he dead? If so, was it suicide, or homicide? Who was trying to hide what? In the end, it is all just speculation, and it may or may not have anything to do with the Sandusky case.

Something tells me, though, that the feds will take another crack at his disappearance, and that hard drive.

This case just gets more and more strange. If this was a pitch for a movie script, it would be rejected as too unbelievable. The Gricar plot line would be considered where the script "jumped the shark." The latest Madden rumor? Is there such a thing as "jump the whale?"


Good analysis. Pretty much agree with all that you said. Although the Feds were involved before, it was probably somewhat restrained. The roof has been blown off now and they will probably throw everything at this mess and see where it leads. I bet there are a whole lot of nervous people in that neck of the woods right about now.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by GunEmDown10:
In Texas, failure to report this offense to LEO is a CRIMINAL offense. The simple fact they went thru the University's system speaks volumes....

GED10DaD[/QUOTE]

I think that is pretty standard across the board in most states, if you work with children or young adults in any capacity it is a criminal offense to not report what you suspect or know. That includes any type of child abuse.

Problems arise when people protect adults and forget about their moral and legal obligations. Child victims often get the short end of the stick, it's sad, it happens often when people want to avoid scandals.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
You have to wonder if there will be some fraud going on. Others who were not victims of Sandusky trying to get a large pay day. Before all of this is over, Penn State might not have any money to hire a coach. Wonder if it's possible that Penn State might be out of football at some point.

Just a thought regarding Paterno. If the grad assistant told him that Sandusky was hugging a kid in the shower or something like that rather than molesting a young kid... Does that change anyone's perception?

I do believe it is everyones obligation to report this, but just how far do you take it if your not 100% sure of what happened? After all, false allegations can and have ruined lives, too.

There are several former Penn State players who have said they had no idea that Sandusky would do these things. Seems like a lot of people were shocked by all this. So if someone did know about Sandusky, they kept it very quite. Seems like in this case, lots of people knew and still somehow they kept it quiet. Why? How?

Heads need to roll, investigators, coaches, administrators, and everyone else that allowed this to continue. Everyone who knew about this and didn't stop it is guilty.

Let’s start with that assistant coach that saw Sandusky with that young boy in the shower. Did I hear he is still coaching this weekend? Why? How?

Happy Valley... They should change the name!
G gotwood4sale10,000+ posts
.

At some point in time, perhaps a very long way down the road, Penn State University will be stronger for having gone through all of this.

The quicker they get a thorough investigation done and meaningful reforms in place the quicker the entire community can start to heal and get beyond this horrible episode.

I pray for everyone involved that they can move ahead in a positive manner...especially the victims.

.
Last edited by gotwood4sale
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
All...I encourage you to read the Grand Jury Report. It is a very tough read but informative.

PG,

In the GJ Report, McCreery says he also heard noises coming from the shower which indicated what was going on. He confirmed it visually. IMO, he only has to tell Paterno 3 words - kid, Sandusky, shower - and it paints a disturbing picture.

As for McCreery coaching this weekend, I can understand it (not necessarily agree with it but understand it). He was a GA who played for Paterno and brought this travesty to him. His superiors did nothing about it. Should he have done more? Absolutely but if someone like Paterno (who is God-like at PSU) didn't do anything, what would a lowly GA do? This is not how I would have handled it but his inactions are slightly more excusable than a legend like Paterno.
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