redbird,
If all the reports are fairly accurate, I personally think McCreery's inactions are absolutely the most unexcusable of anyone. He was an Eye Witness and did nothing to stop it. He then told Paterno about it... THE NEXT DAY! After that, I guess he just let things be.
You have to wonder how many times he crossed paths with Sandusky after he saw him in that shower. You would think that everytime he saw him it would remind him about what he should have done.
redbird- The Board of Trustees have temporarily requested that McCreery not be on the sidelines this Saturday.
On page 7 of the Grand Jury presentment, Paterno's report report to the A.D is as follows:
"...the graduate assistant (Mc*****y) had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."
In the next paragraph, it states that about a week and a half later, Mc*****y told the A.D and Senior VP for Finance and Business that "he had witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having a-n-a-l s-e-x with a boy in the Lasch Building showers."
In the next paragraph it states that the A.D contacted McCreery once again... "He (Mc*****y) was told that Sandusky's keys to the locker room were taken away and that the incident had been reported to The Second Mile (the charity). The graduate assistant was never questioned by University Police and no other entity conducted investigation until he testified in Grand Jury in December, 2010. The Grand Jury find the graduate assistant's testimony to be extremely credible."
On page 19, the report goes into detail about "Victim 6", the victim that is alluded to in the article pertaining to the disappearances of then-DA Ray Gricar. Here is the direct quote from the presentment:
"After a lengthy investigation by University Police Detective Ronald Shreffler, the investigation was closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decided there would be no criminal charges. Shreffler testified that he was told to close the investigation by the director of the campus police, Thomas Harmon. That investigation included a second child, B.K, also 11, who was subjected to nearly identical treatment in the shower as Victim 6, according to Detective Shreffler.
Detective Shreffler testified that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdropped on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 had with Sandusky on May 13, 1988 and May 19, 1998. The mother of Victim 6 confronted Sandusky about showering with her son, the effect it had on her son, whether Sandusky had sexual feelings when he hugged her naked son in the shower and where Victim 6's buttocks were when Sandusky hugged him. Sandusky said he had showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tried to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he would not. She asked him if his "private parts" touched Victim 6 when he bear-hugged him. Sandusky replied, "I don't think so...maybe." At the conclusion of the second conversation, after Sandusky was told he could not see Victim 6 anymore, Sandusky said, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead." Detective Ralston and the mother of Victim 6 confirm these conversations."
Seems to me as though there are a lot more people at fault than what is coming out to the media. It'll be interesting to see where this all turns. I can say this much, I hope they don't take any of this lightly on anyone. These grown men deserve every legal and profession action of punishment they are going to (hopefully) receive.
Last but most certainly not least, my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families. I find it very troubling that the media has placed so much emphasis on the future of Penn State football and not the future of these young men that were viciously stripped of their childhood and psychological well-being. Sometimes, especially in a case like this, there is much more to life than sports.
On page 7 of the Grand Jury presentment, Paterno's report report to the A.D is as follows:
"...the graduate assistant (Mc*****y) had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."
In the next paragraph, it states that about a week and a half later, Mc*****y told the A.D and Senior VP for Finance and Business that "he had witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having a-n-a-l s-e-x with a boy in the Lasch Building showers."
In the next paragraph it states that the A.D contacted McCreery once again... "He (Mc*****y) was told that Sandusky's keys to the locker room were taken away and that the incident had been reported to The Second Mile (the charity). The graduate assistant was never questioned by University Police and no other entity conducted investigation until he testified in Grand Jury in December, 2010. The Grand Jury find the graduate assistant's testimony to be extremely credible."
On page 19, the report goes into detail about "Victim 6", the victim that is alluded to in the article pertaining to the disappearances of then-DA Ray Gricar. Here is the direct quote from the presentment:
"After a lengthy investigation by University Police Detective Ronald Shreffler, the investigation was closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decided there would be no criminal charges. Shreffler testified that he was told to close the investigation by the director of the campus police, Thomas Harmon. That investigation included a second child, B.K, also 11, who was subjected to nearly identical treatment in the shower as Victim 6, according to Detective Shreffler.
Detective Shreffler testified that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdropped on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 had with Sandusky on May 13, 1988 and May 19, 1998. The mother of Victim 6 confronted Sandusky about showering with her son, the effect it had on her son, whether Sandusky had sexual feelings when he hugged her naked son in the shower and where Victim 6's buttocks were when Sandusky hugged him. Sandusky said he had showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tried to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he would not. She asked him if his "private parts" touched Victim 6 when he bear-hugged him. Sandusky replied, "I don't think so...maybe." At the conclusion of the second conversation, after Sandusky was told he could not see Victim 6 anymore, Sandusky said, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead." Detective Ralston and the mother of Victim 6 confirm these conversations."
Seems to me as though there are a lot more people at fault than what is coming out to the media. It'll be interesting to see where this all turns. I can say this much, I hope they don't take any of this lightly on anyone. These grown men deserve every legal and profession action of punishment they are going to (hopefully) receive.
Last but most certainly not least, my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families. I find it very troubling that the media has placed so much emphasis on the future of Penn State football and not the future of these young men that were viciously stripped of their childhood and psychological well-being. Sometimes, especially in a case like this, there is much more to life than sports.
How did McCreery continue to work in an environment where he knew what was going on, could anyone with a conscience continue to be a part of the circus.
quote:Originally posted by redbird5:
All...I encourage you to read the Grand Jury Report. It is a very tough read but informative.
PG,
In the GJ Report, McCreery says he also heard noises coming from the shower which indicated what was going on. He confirmed it visually. IMO, he only has to tell Paterno 3 words - kid, Sandusky, shower - and it paints a disturbing picture.
As for McCreery coaching this weekend, I can understand it (not necessarily agree with it but understand it). He was a GA who played for Paterno and brought this travesty to him. His superiors did nothing about it. Should he have done more? Absolutely but if someone like Paterno (who is God-like at PSU) didn't do anything, what would a lowly GA do? This is not how I would have handled it but his inactions are slightly more excusable than a legend like Paterno.
McQuery went to his superior with information that was never turned over to the proper authorities for investigation, at some point he morally had to wonder about this, unless he was told to keep his mouth closed and in return has been rewarded (after all of these years) with a coaching position. Makes you wonder doesn't it? I am sure he is having trouble sleeping these days.
I don't believe that there was one single person involved (or knew of the incident) who could have cared about what was really important and that was the young victims.
TPM I totally agree. What seems clear to me is the football program, Joe Pa's legacy was more important to these people than the well being of young children. They knew this guy was still out there doing what he was doing. But they swept it under the rug to protect the image of the program. I am believe this is going to get much worse in the coming weeks. A lot worse.
Hopefully all who contributed to this fiasco and left these kids to be prey for sick adults will get a taste of their own medicine while in jail.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
McQuery went to his superior with information that was never turned over to the proper authorities for investigation.
From what I've read, it was. What they did (or didn't do) with it, and what he did (or didn't do) from that point are the big issues.
quote:Originally posted by J H:
I find it very troubling that the media has placed so much emphasis on the future of Penn State football
Out of curiousity, where are you seeing this type of coverage? Even ESPN hasn't focused on the football aspect.
quote:Originally posted by Matt13:
Out of curiousity, where are you seeing this type of coverage? Even ESPN hasn't focused on the football aspect.
Sports Center is talking about it right now.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
"Just a thought regarding Paterno. If the grad assistant told him that Sandusky was hugging a kid in the shower or something like that rather than molesting a young kid... Does that change anyone's perception?
I do believe it is everyones obligation to report this, but just how far do you take it if your not 100% sure of what happened? After all, false allegations can and have ruined lives, too."
PGStaff, your comments in this thread have been cautious and thoughtful, and in many ways the criminal perjury charges facing former AD Curley and VP for Business and Finance Schulz center around the question of exactly what McQueary told Paterno, exactly what Paterno told these men, and then later exactly what McQueary told Curley and Schulz. This is addressed by the grand jury report, but the actual testimony is sealed, and we don't know exactly what was said.
But consider that those who have had the MOST access to the investigation, and the the facts and testimony - the grand jury itself, and the PSU Board of Trustees - have unanimously come down in favor of the credibility of McQueary rather than any of these other men. The grand jury specifically found McQueary's testimony credible, and Curley's and Schulz's tesimony NOT credible. And Paterno is gone...McQueary is not. Whether anybody believes that is right or wrong, I think it is at least an indication that they, too, believe McQueary and that while he could (and I think should have) done more, in their view he did what he should have while others didn't.
And let's not be too much of an apologist for JoePa. His initial statement said he wasn't told "specifics," but what more do you need to know if, as the grand jury reports he testified UNDER OATH, he received a report from McQueary that Sandusky was "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" to a boy in the football locker room shower. That's plenty specific enough, so no it does not change my perception. Your hypothetical is a false one, by Paterno's own sworn testimony.
The other thing is, Paterno has NEVER said he was "not 100% sure" of the credibility of McQueary's report. Reportedly, he has said the opposite - that he believed McQueary's report was truthful and believable. That is one of the reasons that I suspect he knew at least some of the details of the earlier Sandusky investigation - if he knew about that, how much of a surprise would it be that he was hearing about yet another incident with Sandusky in the shower with a young boy if this was something of a pattern he had previously heard about? And, if he believed it, I can think of no excuse why he wouldn't have asked a LOT more questions (and for that matter, if McQueary was vague, why wouldn't he ask questions then too?) or have done more than kicked it upstairs.
As I said very early in this thread, hesitation to report because you have a hard time believing somebody you know is capable of such a horrific act, and for fear of ruining his (or her) life if the allegations prove to be false, only serves to enable those who ARE doing these despicable things, and allows other, unknown, lives to be irretrievably ruined. The ONLY choice should be to report it to the police, and let them sort out the facts. That's their job, and they should be able to do that quietly and without too much impact on the accused until they determine that the allegations are true. After all, that's what happened in 1998, isn't it? Sandusky's life wasn't ruined by THAT investigation (even though perhaps it should have been), was it?
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:quote:Originally posted by Matt13:
Out of curiousity, where are you seeing this type of coverage? Even ESPN hasn't focused on the football aspect.
Sports Center is talking about it right now.
As of now, though, it is a salient question given what has transpired over the past day. I don't see it as being THE focus of ESPN's coverage, but a minor part of the overall picture.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
Ummm...you said "I don't think this will hurt PSU football all that much overall. They are going to open up the pocketbooks and hire a big name to replace JoePa."
Perhaps you meant to say "This might not hurt PSU, if they get Urban Meyer." I said we'll agree to disagree.
You're right I mispoke and meant that IF they do hire a big name like an Urban Meyer it might not hurt them as much. I started my first post and got halfway through with it and then stepped away. When I came back the point of my post had changed. My bad on that one.
I still believe that if they do hire a big name coach the football team won't be hurt that bad overall. I don't see it as a lack of character on anybody's part. This is the failing of many people who will not be part of this university by next August. Even McCreery will be gone by then although I have no idea why he's still there. Whoever they hire - big name or not - will bring in his own staff. They will have a new president, AD and whatever position the other guy was resigned from. For discussion sake let's say it is Urban Meyer who is hired. Kids know that Meyer will win games, he can get players prepared to play in the NFL and overall he has a clean record. When he goes into homes he can use that to show things are changed at PSU.
I don't think every recruit will come there due to this situation but there will still be those who will. It will essentially be a new school with new people and a clean slate.
If they hire a no name then yes I believe it will be decades before PSU is ever relevant again.
Here is a question I have - when the initial investigation by police led to the AD not following up with charges in 1998(???) did Paterno have knowledge of this investigation? If he did then there is no doubt at all he is morally guilty and should lose his job. I have a hard time believing that Paterno had no clue about this initial investigation.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
redbird,
If all the reports are fairly accurate, I personally think McCreery's inactions are absolutely the most unexcusable of anyone. He was an Eye Witness and did nothing to stop it. He then told Paterno about it... THE NEXT DAY! After that, I guess he just let things be.
You have to wonder how many times he crossed paths with Sandusky after he saw him in that shower. You would think that everytime he saw him it would remind him about what he should have done.
This is exactly what my friends and I have discussed. How could anyone just walk away? (and then see Sandusky for years afterwards? Was the hero worship of Paterno so great that he was leading by example when he turned a blind eye?)
All they did was embolden a predator.
quote:Originally posted by A3BC:
How did McCreery continue to work in an environment where he knew what was going on, could anyone with a conscience continue to be a part of the circus.
McQuery is a spineless football w hore. Period.
For a reality check let's change the victim's gender. Let's say an assistant sees a coach raping a 10 year old girl. Would anyone in their right mind say he did the right thing by just informing his boss and not contact the police? And then allowing it to go unpunished when those he informed do nothing and he also stays silent.
I heard Lou Holtz say today that he thought McCreery basically did everything he should have by just informing Paterno. I'd love for someone to have asked him if he would have felt differently if the victim was a girl that McCrerry saw being raped.
Is just informing your supervisor in that instance OK Lou ?
I heard Lou Holtz say today that he thought McCreery basically did everything he should have by just informing Paterno. I'd love for someone to have asked him if he would have felt differently if the victim was a girl that McCrerry saw being raped.
Is just informing your supervisor in that instance OK Lou ?
This isn't funny, but it does give you an indication of how far removed from any kind of compassion for victims the PSU community is, and also how probable it is that Jerry Sandusky's "proclivities" were a poorly kept secret at PSU, to say the least.
PSU has a creamery, and they made ice cream concoctions named after famous people around the PSU campus. Apparently, there were desert dishes sold at PSU games. This website details, complete with a picture, what the "Sandusky" was. Two scoops with a cone upside down sticking up from the scoops.
I kid you not. This is right up there with Sandusky titling his autobiography/memoir "Touched." You just can't make this stuff up....
PSU has a creamery, and they made ice cream concoctions named after famous people around the PSU campus. Apparently, there were desert dishes sold at PSU games. This website details, complete with a picture, what the "Sandusky" was. Two scoops with a cone upside down sticking up from the scoops.
I kid you not. This is right up there with Sandusky titling his autobiography/memoir "Touched." You just can't make this stuff up....
Edgar, they might be pulling your leg with that picture....
So, the latest is that McQueary will not attend the game, Saturday.
Sandusky 'distraught' over Paterno retirement, developments at Penn State
This is the local paper at Penn State. They have been pretty accurate in their articles.
I heard a guy on the radio tonight who works for a different paper. He said he was tipped off to the grand jury report over a year ago. He couldn't believe what he was told that day. He was asked by the host if everything is out, or will it get even worse. He replied "no, everything is not out, but I don't think everything will ever come out."
So, the latest is that McQueary will not attend the game, Saturday.
Sandusky 'distraught' over Paterno retirement, developments at Penn State
This is the local paper at Penn State. They have been pretty accurate in their articles.
I heard a guy on the radio tonight who works for a different paper. He said he was tipped off to the grand jury report over a year ago. He couldn't believe what he was told that day. He was asked by the host if everything is out, or will it get even worse. He replied "no, everything is not out, but I don't think everything will ever come out."
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
Edgar, they might be pulling your leg with that picture....
Maybe...man, I hope so. If not, it is an incredibly insensitive attempt at humor.
It does make one wonder just what people suspected about Sandusky over the years in that town. If you show up everywhere with young boys in tow, and it turns out you've molested tens (if not hundreds - I think it will end up being hundreds) of kids, how do the rumors NOT swirl?
I like Barry Switzer as a football guy. He had some interesting things to say about the matter.
Barry Switzer says Joe Paterno had to go
COMMENTARY — Former Oklahoma coach Barry Switzer says the closeness of coaching staffs and the continuity of Joe Paterno's Penn State staff makes one thing almost certain: “Everyone on that staff had to have known.”
Barry Switzer says Joe Paterno had to go
COMMENTARY — Former Oklahoma coach Barry Switzer says the closeness of coaching staffs and the continuity of Joe Paterno's Penn State staff makes one thing almost certain: “Everyone on that staff had to have known.”
.
That's an excellent question.
.
- "Is just informing your supervisor in that instance OK Lou?"
That's an excellent question.
.
Wonder if Papa joe gave McCreary a full-time job to look the other direction?? Usually grad assistants go on to a smaller school to pay their dues before they come back to the big time.
I think this is the most honest "reporting" that I've seen yet. Definitely more detached, does not excuse Joe but does accurately portray what the media has done. Says it way better than I ever could.
http://joeposnanski.si.com/201...f-paterno/#more-8533
By the way, someone previously said that the Grand Jury and the Board of Trustees has more information but that is only true of the Grand Jury that heard all of the testimony. The Board of Trustees only had the presentment like the rest of us.
http://joeposnanski.si.com/201...f-paterno/#more-8533
By the way, someone previously said that the Grand Jury and the Board of Trustees has more information but that is only true of the Grand Jury that heard all of the testimony. The Board of Trustees only had the presentment like the rest of us.
Sometimes your words come back to haunt you.
"A devout Republican, who famously introduced President George H.W. Bush at the 1988 GOP Convention, Paterno was friendly with every Republican president from Nixon to George W. Bush. As the story goes, Nixon, a diehard football fan, loved to chat with Paterno about football whenever he had the chance.
But at the 1973 commencement address at Penn State, as it became clear that Nixon was involved in the Watergate cover up, Paterno said of the President, “How could Nixon know so little about Watergate and so much about football?” "
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages..._ncaa?blockID=592092
"A devout Republican, who famously introduced President George H.W. Bush at the 1988 GOP Convention, Paterno was friendly with every Republican president from Nixon to George W. Bush. As the story goes, Nixon, a diehard football fan, loved to chat with Paterno about football whenever he had the chance.
But at the 1973 commencement address at Penn State, as it became clear that Nixon was involved in the Watergate cover up, Paterno said of the President, “How could Nixon know so little about Watergate and so much about football?” "
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages..._ncaa?blockID=592092
Excellent article. Thanks for posting.
quote:Originally posted by VaRHPmom:
I think this is the most honest "reporting" that I've seen yet. Definitely more detached, does not excuse Joe but does accurately portray what the media has done. Says it way better than I ever could.
Here is an editorial from today's Centre Daily Times. It was written by their (former) sports editor, who is about as 'inside' as an 'outsider' can be at Penn State. I think it says, better, what I was trying to say in this whole thread. Nobody rocks the boat in State College.
Ron Bracken: Climate of secrecy led to crumbling of Camelot
"How could this happen in Happy Valley, the Camelot of college football?
To answer that you have to understand the culture that has prevailed for at least as long as Paterno was in charge of the football program. It was, right up until he was removed from his position Wednesday night, a climate of Kremlin-like secrecy, of tightly-controlled access, of rule by dynamic terror. It was understood that if you wanted to be around his program in a professional aspect, you did so at his pleasure and by his rules.
And that kind of climate is a petri dish for what happened in what must now be called the Sandusky Scandal.
But the toxic climate isn’t confined to the football program at Penn State. It’s pervasive on the campus from the lowest worker in the Office of the Physical Plant to the corner offices in Old Main. It’s all about keeping your mouth shut, doing your job, looking the other way at the various indiscretions and currying favor with those above you in the food chain in order to keep or improve your position. Stray from these guidelines at your own peril."
Ron Bracken: Climate of secrecy led to crumbling of Camelot
"How could this happen in Happy Valley, the Camelot of college football?
To answer that you have to understand the culture that has prevailed for at least as long as Paterno was in charge of the football program. It was, right up until he was removed from his position Wednesday night, a climate of Kremlin-like secrecy, of tightly-controlled access, of rule by dynamic terror. It was understood that if you wanted to be around his program in a professional aspect, you did so at his pleasure and by his rules.
And that kind of climate is a petri dish for what happened in what must now be called the Sandusky Scandal.
But the toxic climate isn’t confined to the football program at Penn State. It’s pervasive on the campus from the lowest worker in the Office of the Physical Plant to the corner offices in Old Main. It’s all about keeping your mouth shut, doing your job, looking the other way at the various indiscretions and currying favor with those above you in the food chain in order to keep or improve your position. Stray from these guidelines at your own peril."
quote:Originally posted by VaRHPmom:
I think this is the most honest "reporting" that I've seen yet. Definitely more detached, does not excuse Joe but does accurately portray what the media has done. Says it way better than I ever could.
http://joeposnanski.si.com/201...f-paterno/#more-8533
By the way, someone previously said that the Grand Jury and the Board of Trustees has more information but that is only true of the Grand Jury that heard all of the testimony. The Board of Trustees only had the presentment like the rest of us.
Mr. Posnanski writes: "But I think the way Joe Paterno has lived his life has earned him something more than instant fury, more than immediate assumptions of the worst...."
The way Joe Paterno has lived his life AS FAR AS WE KNOW IT has earned him something more....
quote:Originally posted by VaRHPmom:
I think this is the most honest "reporting" that I've seen yet. Definitely more detached, does not excuse Joe but does accurately portray what the media has done. Says it way better than I ever could.
http://joeposnanski.si.com/201...f-paterno/#more-8533
Thanks for the link. I will disagree with honest reporting, more like anguished reporting. He admits he is so wrapped up with Penn State football that he can hardly see straight. I've heard plenty of former players/associates say how great/influential Paterno is.
Everyone is in shock right now, next week those that knew Paterno or have an association with Penn State will be able to assimilate all this information.
Personally I feel Paterno acted like he was living the 1920's instead of the 1990's. That's not good enough. He does not deserve a pass just because he is a hero figure or because he is 86. imo, there seems to be a disconnect in his actions then and his actions now. I guess I feel like he just doesn't seem to get it.
Penn State administration/trustees have handled this horribly, that I agree with. This was in the press in April!!! (GJ going on since 2008) Why they are acting all shocked and in disarray is beyond me. What the heck did they, or anyone in the know, think would happen when the national/international media got wind of this!? Damage control should have started years ago.
When I said clean house in an earlier post, I meant everyone. Not just the football program.
Is it possible that Joes "disconnect" has something to do with his age?? I have seen this in my own family as a person ages they "disconnect" put their heads in the sand, avoid problems..
Joe has done a lot of good in his life. It appears he made a horrible mistake.
If only one person had put the kids first.
Joe has done a lot of good in his life. It appears he made a horrible mistake.
If only one person had put the kids first.
The thing that took me back a bit was when the trustee announcing Joe's firing did not soften it first by saying how wonderful Joe's tenure has been over his career, etc. It was cut and dry- he gone.
The stories that are going to come out must really be a complete mess for them not to attempt to balance his life's work. Beyond belief.
The stories that are going to come out must really be a complete mess for them not to attempt to balance his life's work. Beyond belief.
Is it possible this now evident scandal could have been the reason Joe was still coaching? Would have been tough to bring in new blood with a skeleton in every closet. I don't mean to accuse him as the architect either. The possibility of this being a full blown pedophile ring seems quite real...I'd be looking mighty hard at the lawyer first @ PSU then Second Mile counsel.
I was a Penn State fan
I was a Penn State fan
I'm a bit troubled about how ready people are to go after McQuerry. Especially the ones who want to attack McQuerry to shift blame away from Paterno. McQuerry certainly didn't do everything he could or should have and he's going to have to live with that guilt but the reality is that he did more than most people in his situation would have. History teaches us that there are many, many incidents where people have done far less. Kitty Genovese comes to mind. There are very few dictators who would be able to gain power or stay in power if people did the right thing. The reality is that there have been very many evil dictators and very many good people who did nothing to stop them.
So while I hope that I would have done more and I try to teach my kids that they would have to do more if they were ever in a terrible situation like that I am not going to condemn somebody who did more than most people would have.
So while I hope that I would have done more and I try to teach my kids that they would have to do more if they were ever in a terrible situation like that I am not going to condemn somebody who did more than most people would have.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
So while I hope that I would have done more and I try to teach my kids that they would have to do more if they were ever in a terrible situation like that I am not going to condemn somebody who did more than most people would have.
I had this conversation with my youngest son last night. I explained what was going on. I told him the children never spoke up out of fear. Sandusky probably threatened them, made them feel like this was normal behavior. They feared they'd lose all the gifts and attention.
The adults, however, also clammed up out of fear. Fear of looking bad, fear the university would look bad, fear for their jobs, fear of losing friends.
Which fear is worse?
I made my son promise me two things. One, if anything like this ever happens to you, please trust me and tell me what's going on. No one should ever do these things to you. And two, if you ever see or hear of this kind of activity, you MUST do the right thing and tell someone. And if they don't act on it, tell someone else.
Who else is going to stand up for these children? Who else is going to protect them?
However, I absolutely will condemn those who knew and didn't do enough. This isn't shoplifiting. This is destroying a childhood and maybe an entire life. There can be nothing worse than that.
quote:Originally posted by biggerpapi:
if you ever see or hear of this kind of activity, you MUST do the right thing and tell someone. And if they don't act on it, tell someone else.
That's what McQueary did. And, look at what happened. Nothing. You have to tell your son to tell the police, not just "someone".
Fine, go ahead and throw the first stone. Just remember who was against that.
We have to take immediate steps to protect children and sometimes that means abrogating potential perpetrators civil liberties. So be it.
Going after Mc*****y is a very different story and it is more a matter of people making themselves feel good by trying to convince themselves they would have done better. BTW, that's what the people who were throwing the literal stones back then were doing.
My kids are teens and older so I'm referring to their being in a situation like Mc*****y was in and hoping that they would do better and hoping that if I was the dad who was called that I would do better.
All the people who insist that they would have done better remind me of the 90% of us who believe we are better than average drivers. Some are, some aren't. Of the people who insist they would've done better some would've, some wouldn't have.
We have to take immediate steps to protect children and sometimes that means abrogating potential perpetrators civil liberties. So be it.
Going after Mc*****y is a very different story and it is more a matter of people making themselves feel good by trying to convince themselves they would have done better. BTW, that's what the people who were throwing the literal stones back then were doing.
My kids are teens and older so I'm referring to their being in a situation like Mc*****y was in and hoping that they would do better and hoping that if I was the dad who was called that I would do better.
All the people who insist that they would have done better remind me of the 90% of us who believe we are better than average drivers. Some are, some aren't. Of the people who insist they would've done better some would've, some wouldn't have.
quote:So while I hope that I would have done more and I try to teach my kids that they would have to do more if they were ever in a terrible situation like that I am not going to condemn somebody who did more than most people would have.
i picture myself or one of my sons on that table or in the clutches of the good coach.
i'm sure i'd want anyone to finish doing MORE right then and there. stop this horrific act while you see it. anything else is unacceptable to me.
Today is Veterns Day.
There were some who did not chose to serve but were called and did the right thing and served with honor.
Many were treated with disrespect
Then there are the coaches at Penn State that were respected and honored as heros but failed to do the right thing.
Thank you to all the people who do the right thing at the right time
There were some who did not chose to serve but were called and did the right thing and served with honor.
Many were treated with disrespect
Then there are the coaches at Penn State that were respected and honored as heros but failed to do the right thing.
Thank you to all the people who do the right thing at the right time
quote:I'm a bit troubled about how ready people are to go after McQuerry.
CADad,
I think it is because he is the only person that has been identified as being an eyewitness.
He actually saw it happen and di nothing. I would like to think that most grown men would do something if they saw a rape taking place. Even more so if it were a child being raped.
Maybe he was scared and didn't know what to do. It sounds like he called his dad. Guess his dad didn't tell him what he needed to do. It was reported that he told Joe Paterno about it THE NEXT DAY!
There are some things that people think about before reacting. This wasn't one of those things.
McQuerry apparently did think about all of this and decided to pass his responsibility on to someone else. That was the easiest way, just pass it on.
McQuerry is not a monster like Sandusky, but he appears to be the only EYEWITNESS in this case. Then it just continued! He has to share some responsibility for it continuing.
You might be right that many people would have done far less. I sure hope that's not true!
It's amazing and disappointing that so many people did nothing to stop this. It seems like some kind of cult or something.
Lots of people dropped the ball. Though they should have done more it appears Paterno and McQuerry both reported up the ladder. Someone is responsible for STOPPING it at some point. Whoever that was, should be right behind Sandusky (or should I say in front of him) behind bars.