Service Academy Draftee

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
Oh, we're well aware of that. Here we have the pot lecturing the kettle on the subject of blackness.

and let's add Orlando's tag line...
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not
one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." --- Terry Pratchett

huh...

Oh, for heaven's sake. I infer by that that you are under the impression that anyone not agreeing with your take on the situation and policy is displaying ignorance. Such arrogance would fit with a commitment that is self-defined.

My son enlisted in the Army at West Point to lead the brave men and women of this country into battle at risk of his own life. Pat Tillman had already made millions, and when one of his young teammates wanted to enlist with him, Tillmans advice was to make his money in pro ball first and then serve.

Please do not make light of the comittment which I in the past and my son now have made for sport of your argument.

Condemning young men for wanting to pursue the same dreams that your sons have is a double standard. We don't ask anything of you, but are willing to lay down our life for your freedom.

Bring that up next time you want to talk about what is fair and unfair, and don't pretend to stand up for those already in service to their country if you have never served. It's easy to have an opinion from the comfort of your easy chair. It's quite another matter to sign on the dotted line and be willing to pay the ultimate price. It goes to a whole new level when you stand behind your principles and watch your son take up the mantle of burden and risk.

My son wants to play professional baseball. If he doesn't get his wish, he goes to war to defend our country. Stand beside him or go to hell, your choice.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
Condemning young men for wanting to pursue the same dreams that your sons have is a double standard. We don't ask anything of you, but are willing to lay down our life for your freedom.

Bring that up next time you want to talk about what is fair and unfair, and don't pretend to stand up for those already in service to their country if you have never served. It's easy to have an opinion from the comfort of your easy chair. It's quite another matter to sign on the dotted line and be willing to pay the ultimate price. It goes to a whole new level when you stand behind your principles and watch your son take up the mantle of burden and risk.

My son wants to play professional baseball. If he doesn't get his wish, he goes to war to defend our country. Stand beside him or go to hell, your choice.

Your comments are definetly uncalled for. People are entitled to their opinions, it's comments like you have made above that makes the whole thing harder to understand.

My first question was and still is, why should pro baseball be a special circumstance to get out of a commitment, any commitment?

My son made an agreement with his school, he would show up for class, maintain a certain GPA, and show up for practice and games, in exchange he would get his college education paid for. If this didn't happen, or he changed his mind, he would lose his scholarhip. I expected him to live up to his commitment and agreement. I did not expect him to ask the coach if he could have a year off to do something else then come back and play. Do you understand that analogy.

Second question. Does that happen in the service academies? If they do not play baseball do they lose their scholarhips?

TPM, Orlando, luvbb,

With all do Respect.
You did question Young Officers Commitment to there Obligation, And there commitment to there Country.

And I did not care for what you implied.

You can say if you want that you were not questioning there Loyalty.

But I did not read it that way from what you have written.

You all have know idea the Officers involved, and what there commitment is are will be in the future.

Do you understand my point of view now???

EH

Eh...for SOME reason you seem to be unable to distinguish between questioning a POLICY and a personal attack. WE UNDERSTAND FULLY that these young men are not breaking any rules....but we are questioning the POLICY. Yes, there has been name calling, personal attacks and questioning of motives. I suggest you re-read the thread and use an objective viewpoint this time.

hint: "Go to hell" might be a clue

quote:

And THIS is why we question the policy. Defending our country is #2 on the list and apparently the academies/military are A-ok with it.

Yes they are, A-ok with it.

Now I'm going to go beat my brains out against a Brick wall.
Maybe it will understand my point of view.
EH

Well luvbb, you did question loyalty and commitment.
I've read and Reread this post.
And thats the conclusion that I come away with.

You now question are militaries motive's.
How disloyal is that.
EH

EH,
Your point of view has always been understood, go back and read my posts.

Questioning military motives is DISLOYAL? Where did you come up with that one?

I never said anything about the young man or any young men regarding them being nothing but fine young men.
I was trying to make a point about commitments. When is it ok to put off commitment for ANYTHING and when is it not ok? Orlando and luvbb have brought up good points in the discussion, asking questions that are not answered. Is playing baseball an exception?

What is the military POLICY for not keeping commitments? At sons school it's no more $$$.

Before you beat your head against the wall, I asked and have asked over and over again. Why should playing pro baseball be a special circumstance. I don't want to hear about morale booster and it's a good recruiting tool.

Can you answer that question?

quote:

Eh...for SOME reason you seem to be unable to distinguish between questioning a POLICY and a personal attack. WE UNDERSTAND FULLY that these young men are not breaking any rules....

With this statement alone, you question there commitment an loyalty.
By saying there not breaking any rules,

But for unhonorable reasons there using the rules to there advantage, Like there sherking there duty.

And that is why I will not agree with what you say.
EH

quote:

Before you beat your head against the wall, I asked and have asked over and over again. Why should playing pro baseball be a special circumstance. I don't want to hear about morale booster and it's a good recruiting tool.

Can you answer that question?

Joint he club TPM....good luck! LOL

I said before TPM, and other's that I understand your Point of View.

Do you understand mine and other's point of view.


By questioning the Military's motive's, You seem to think that it is not right for them to allow this young Officer's a chance to follow there Dream's.
I disagree.
I think they know what there doing when it come's to PR.

And luvbb, The Statement was,

My son wants to play professional baseball. If he doesn't get his wish, he goes to war to defend our country. Stand beside him or go to hell, your choice.

Don't take it out of context.
EH

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
EH,
Your point of view has always been understood, go back and read my posts.

Questioning military motives is DISLOYAL? Where did you come up with that one?

I never said anything about the young man or any young men regarding them being nothing but fine young men.
I was trying to make a point about commitments. When is it ok to put off commitment for ANYTHING and when is it not ok? Orlando and luvbb have brought up good points in the discussion, asking questions that are not answered. Is playing baseball an exception?

What is the military POLICY for not keeping commitments? At sons school it's no more $$$.

Before you beat your head against the wall, I asked and have asked over and over again. Why should playing pro baseball be a special circumstance. I don't want to hear about morale booster and it's a good recruiting tool.

Can you answer that question?

TPM, let me take a stab at your question about commitment...

First you asked about "if they (in reference to SA ballplayers) didn't play baseball, would they lose thier scholarship?" NO. Why? Because they are not there on a baseball scholarship.

Second, you ask about "putting off commitment for ANYTHING"... in the case of Nick Hill and his teammate (sorry name eludes me ATM) neither one of them are putting their commitment aside. Instead, they are serving as recruiters for the United States Army. That is their commitment. Nowhere does it say that a West Point graduate (nor Annapolis grad nor AFA grad) must go to Iraq or other overseas combat zone. It doesn't say it.

Clearing up?

quote:

quote:
Eh...for SOME reason you seem to be unable to distinguish between questioning a POLICY and a personal attack. WE UNDERSTAND FULLY that these young men are not breaking any rules....


With this statement alone, you question there commitment an loyalty.
By saying there not breaking any rules,

But for unhonorable reasons there using the rules to there advantage, Like there sherking there duty.

WHAT?????!!!!!! Now I know what it is like dealing with bureaucratic double-talk. Of COURSE they are using the rules to their advantage. Is that the cadets' fault???? NOOOOOOOO....THAT is one of the reasons we are questioning the RULES, why they are how they are...and if they should be changed or altered given all the circumstances we laid out. Questions have been asked and "shirked" by some posters on this thread. Not too many straight answers except by Bulldog in this thread...which are appreciated. And then when we present an alternative view and are told "if we don't stand behind him"....we are told to "go to hell". All your talk about "honor"....does it not apply to common everyday courtesy?

And..you conveniently left out the last few words of my post when you posted it above.....the part where I say:

"We understand fully these young men are not breaking any rules...but we are questioning the POLICY".

How can that be any clearer????

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
My first question was and still is, why should pro baseball be a special circumstance to get out of a commitment, any commitment?

They do not get out of anything, the Army chooses then to use them in a different capacity, one which is favorable to both the Army and the Cadet. This agreement is established before attendance is accepted. A rifle is not the only good use of a soldier.

My son made an agreement with his school, he would show up for class, maintain a certain GPA, and show up for practice and games, in exchange he would get his college education paid for. If this didn't happen, or he changed his mind, he would lose his scholarhip. I expected him to live up to his commitment and agreement. I did not expect him to ask the coach if he could have a year off to do something else then come back and play. Do you understand that analogy.

Your son may be a fine young man, I don't know, but to try and compare the lifestyle and commitment, just through the academic years, is quite frankly, absurd.

Second question. Does that happen in the service academies? If they do not play baseball do they lose their scholarhips?

Everyone at a service academy is on scholarship regardless of athletics.

CPLZ, Said stand beside him, Are Go to hell.
So are you going to stand beside him, Your choice.

There's no Double talk on my part.
I'm flat out saying, that your questioning these young Officers Commitment and Loyalty to there Country.
Is that plain and simple enough for you.
EH

quote:

My son wants to play professional baseball. If he doesn't get his wish, he goes to war to defend our country. Stand beside him or go to hell, your choice.

CPLZ, Said stand beside him, Are Go to hell.
So are you going to stand beside him, Your choice.
*************************

Well Eh..that depends...are we standing beside him on the baseball field or on the battlefield. The latter situation, definetly YES (altho, saying that from cushy armchair, I doubt I'll be believed)....on the ballfield? I don't think any of our boys need us to stand beside them there, especially one's with Academy educations.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
EH,
Your point of view has always been understood, go back and read my posts.

Questioning military motives is DISLOYAL? Where did you come up with that one?

I never said anything about the young man or any young men regarding them being nothing but fine young men.
I was trying to make a point about commitments. When is it ok to put off commitment for ANYTHING and when is it not ok? Orlando and luvbb have brought up good points in the discussion, asking questions that are not answered. Is playing baseball an exception?

What is the military POLICY for not keeping commitments? At sons school it's no more $$$.

Before you beat your head against the wall, I asked and have asked over and over again. Why should playing pro baseball be a special circumstance. I don't want to hear about morale booster and it's a good recruiting tool.

Can you answer that question?

TPM, let me take a stab at your question about commitment...

First you asked about "if they (in reference to SA ballplayers) didn't play baseball, would they lose thier scholarship?" NO. Why? Because they are not there on a baseball scholarship.

Second, you ask about "putting off commitment for ANYTHING"... in the case of Nick Hill and his teammate (sorry name eludes me ATM) neither one of them are putting their commitment aside. Instead, they are serving as recruiters for the United States Army. That is their commitment. Nowhere does it say that a West Point graduate (nor Annapolis grad nor AFA grad) must go to Iraq or other overseas combat zone. It doesn't say it.

Clearing up?

Did anyone ever say they had to go to Iraq?

Yes, Bulldog, you are clearing things up, without malice or argument. If that is serving their country by way of promoting the academies and deemed acceptable, then thats it. They have not put off their commitment.

BTW, my brother made a commitment to the Naval reserve, got his engineering degree paid for by the Navy and served his duty flying helicopters into Nam to pick up wounded. It wasn't what he wanted to do but he did it. My father also made an agreement with the US government and earned his engineering degree and then served his time in the Air Force during WW2, he was to be assigned to a special team that designed the B52 that dropped the bomb. It wasn't what he really wanted to do, but he did it.



You are a smart young man.

quote:

There's no Double talk on my part.
I'm flat out saying, that your questioning these young Officers Commitment and Loyalty to there Country.
Is that plain and simple enough for you.
EH

Sure is Eh! It is plain that after 5 pages of dialogue that you simply don't understand what any of us are trying to say.

luvbb, and other's I'm not here to defend the Military and there Policy's.
I am here to defend these young Officers and there motive's for wanting to persue a career in baseball.
As I said it's not a bad thing.
Embrace it.

And by the way CPLZ, I never Served.

It does not mean I'm any less concerned about a Soldier's Welfare.
EH

luvbb, Your on those same 5 pages.
Do you understand anybody else's point of view.
EH