I noticed where an Air Force Academy kid was doing quite well in the GCL. I didn't think those guys could get out of their committment unless they were inordinately tall or otherwise had a special circumstance etc. --- anyone know?
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I'd say being drafted counts as a special circumstance. 
With respect, JW, I doubt a young man who didn't get a place at the service academy and wanted a career in the armed forces would agree with you.
AcademyDad has a thread going in the General section about his son and the GCL.
AcademyDad has a thread going in the General section about his son and the GCL.
quote:I noticed where an Air Force Academy kid was doing quite well in the GCL. I didn't think those guys could get out of their committment
Officer Karl Bolt, Is stationed in Tampa.
Still Fulfilling his commitment to the Armed Forces at this time.
Orlando with respect, Do you think of the Thousands of Cadets that are out there.
That Officer Bolt took that Oppurtunity away from said young man.
Also Officer Bolt could do more for Moral and Honer being an Officer in the MLB, Then anything he could do Stationed over sea's. JMHO.
EH
quote:Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:
I'd say being drafted counts as a special circumstance.
Getting drafted is wonderful, but IMO, there are many things in life much more important than playing baseball.
EH, Orlando brings up a good point.
Of course there are things more important, but it would still count as a special circumstance, in my opinion.
Apparently the school felt the same way?
Apparently the school felt the same way?
TPM, Yes Orlando bring's up a good point.
Just not with this Young Gentlemen.
How many Cadets Fail, Or Get in trouble with Academic's.
Those cadets took a spot from somebody deserving a spot.
Like I said Officer Bolt is still fulfilling his commitment.
Not only that But if Ordered anywhere in the World.
Officer Bolt would Be there, No questions asked.
With No Regrets, It would be his Honer to serve as he is now.
JMHO.
EH
Just not with this Young Gentlemen.
How many Cadets Fail, Or Get in trouble with Academic's.
Those cadets took a spot from somebody deserving a spot.
Like I said Officer Bolt is still fulfilling his commitment.
Not only that But if Ordered anywhere in the World.
Officer Bolt would Be there, No questions asked.
With No Regrets, It would be his Honer to serve as he is now.
JMHO.
EH
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Sadly, I think the aspect that gets lost in this story is the fact that the young man has no intention of not fully fulfilling and honoring his military comittment in WHATEVER capacity that his superiors choose, and whenever and wherever they choose. So far his only "crime" is that he took his responsibility to win ballgames for the Air Force Academy too seriously, worked too hard, got too good and in the process gave himself and the military too many options. Sad when that is considered the WRONG thing to do.
Sadly if those who pass judgement knew him they would understand the situation better. I have known him peripherally for a few years and he is honorable, comitted and about as fine a young man as you will EVER, EVER meet on any level you choose. I think without knowing him and his family you cannot understand what a fine representative he is of the military and of us, and how much he values and takes his position seriously as does his family. I can assure you that he is not looking for "a way out." I can assure you that he is the not the selfish me first athlete that he is made out to be by some and that we are so accustomed to seeing. There are many ways to serve your contry, Might it just be that he can do 100 times more good as a semi-public figure representing the military than he ever could handling logistics?.
I assure you that he will serve, and he will serve with great distinction. The question is when, where, and in what capacity or package of capacities the military, not you, not me, sees best for him. He was brought into the academy in part because is athletically gifted and he was offered the opportunity to see how far that gift will take him, and in this capacity has given the military this option and this profile. So far all he has done is ask, and his superiors so far have agreed that it is in the best interest of their departments to let his baseball progress.
It will continue to be up to his superiors to decide if he is of more use to the nation in the "David Robinson" mode, or some other. That is their choice. He is not a villian for working hard, following his God given talent and giving his superiors that that option. I respectfully submit that where he can be best ultilzed is best left to those who make those decisions.
I only wish those who pass judgement on him knew him personally. As I've said his only crime is giving the military to many options.
I expected he would encounter resistence in the blather of sensationalist media, I had expected that he would be treated better here...
44
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Sadly, I think the aspect that gets lost in this story is the fact that the young man has no intention of not fully fulfilling and honoring his military comittment in WHATEVER capacity that his superiors choose, and whenever and wherever they choose. So far his only "crime" is that he took his responsibility to win ballgames for the Air Force Academy too seriously, worked too hard, got too good and in the process gave himself and the military too many options. Sad when that is considered the WRONG thing to do.
Sadly if those who pass judgement knew him they would understand the situation better. I have known him peripherally for a few years and he is honorable, comitted and about as fine a young man as you will EVER, EVER meet on any level you choose. I think without knowing him and his family you cannot understand what a fine representative he is of the military and of us, and how much he values and takes his position seriously as does his family. I can assure you that he is not looking for "a way out." I can assure you that he is the not the selfish me first athlete that he is made out to be by some and that we are so accustomed to seeing. There are many ways to serve your contry, Might it just be that he can do 100 times more good as a semi-public figure representing the military than he ever could handling logistics?.
I assure you that he will serve, and he will serve with great distinction. The question is when, where, and in what capacity or package of capacities the military, not you, not me, sees best for him. He was brought into the academy in part because is athletically gifted and he was offered the opportunity to see how far that gift will take him, and in this capacity has given the military this option and this profile. So far all he has done is ask, and his superiors so far have agreed that it is in the best interest of their departments to let his baseball progress.
It will continue to be up to his superiors to decide if he is of more use to the nation in the "David Robinson" mode, or some other. That is their choice. He is not a villian for working hard, following his God given talent and giving his superiors that that option. I respectfully submit that where he can be best ultilzed is best left to those who make those decisions.
I only wish those who pass judgement on him knew him personally. As I've said his only crime is giving the military to many options.
I expected he would encounter resistence in the blather of sensationalist media, I had expected that he would be treated better here...
44
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quote:Also Officer Bolt could do more for Moral and Honer being an Officer in the MLB, Then anything he could do Stationed over sea's. JMHO.
WOW! Now THAT is one heck of a statement! I'm sure that all of our service men and woman who are putting their lives on the line everyday overseas would be happy to know that they could be viewed as having more honor by playing baseball back in the USA than serving their country overseas!
To be clear, I do not know Officer Bolt or his family aside from what is written here on the HSBB site. Also, a huge congrats to him for being drafted by MLB. Hey, I'm a Philly gal myself...and Officer Bolt is one of MY guys now! I do not wish him anything but good luck, health and fortune in whatever direction his professional career takes him...whether on the baseball field or the military...or both!
However, to say that Mr. Bolt's contribution on the baseball field carries more honor and morale than anything he could do stationed overseas is a disservice to all of our fine men and women who have made that commitment and have put themselves in harms way in carrying out their duty. As much as we all love baseball, and it plays an important role in all of our lives on this sight...and regardless of political stances....I would think that most of us value and respect our servicemen and women and the sacrifices they make on our behalf. They deserve better than the above statement....JMO.
Considering Officer Bolt's commitment to the military and the type of young man so many have said he is...I would think that he himself would never place himself in the category of having more honor than his fellow soldiers either....regardless of WHERE he serves and in whatever capacity.
mrmom,
O44,
Just explained about as well as anybody could.
Great Testimonial Sir.
EH
quote:anyone know?
O44,
Just explained about as well as anybody could.
Great Testimonial Sir.
EH
luvbb,
You are correct in your Statement.
Although I did not mean it that way.
And there's know way that anything we do in baseball compare's to what are service member's are going thru with honor.
No arguement here.
EH
You are correct in your Statement.
Although I did not mean it that way.
And there's know way that anything we do in baseball compare's to what are service member's are going thru with honor.
No arguement here.
EH
Well said, luvbb.
We all love baseball here, but it is still a game and an entertainment at the professional level.
Being one of the 4100+ minor league ballplayers is about as semi-public as you can get. (As the 66er's fan t-shirt says --- 'all guts, no glory'.)
I'm not sure how observer44 thinks that the young man has been portrayed as a 'villain' here; observer certainly doth protest way too much.
I wonder if there would be such adamant support for the postponing of an armed forces career by a recent academy graduate in wartime if one was an American Idol finalist who wanted to pursue, instead, a singing career.
We all love baseball here, but it is still a game and an entertainment at the professional level.
Being one of the 4100+ minor league ballplayers is about as semi-public as you can get. (As the 66er's fan t-shirt says --- 'all guts, no glory'.)
I'm not sure how observer44 thinks that the young man has been portrayed as a 'villain' here; observer certainly doth protest way too much.
I wonder if there would be such adamant support for the postponing of an armed forces career by a recent academy graduate in wartime if one was an American Idol finalist who wanted to pursue, instead, a singing career.
Orlando, and luvbb.
I do understand where your coming from, And I'm not the one to make a statement.
I'm not articulate enough to explain??
And I'm not here to speak for anybody, These are my thought's and mine only.
Just please do not Question this young man's Character or his commitment to his Duty.
I'm proud of him.
As I hope his fellow Officer's and enlisted men are proud of him.
And if for some reason it boost's morale and fellow Service personal are Honored to have one of there own Represent them in some small capacity.
I feel thats a good thing.
It's just my opinion.
And I apologize if I did not convey my message clearly enough.
EH
I do understand where your coming from, And I'm not the one to make a statement.
I'm not articulate enough to explain??
And I'm not here to speak for anybody, These are my thought's and mine only.
Just please do not Question this young man's Character or his commitment to his Duty.
I'm proud of him.
As I hope his fellow Officer's and enlisted men are proud of him.
And if for some reason it boost's morale and fellow Service personal are Honored to have one of there own Represent them in some small capacity.
I feel thats a good thing.
It's just my opinion.
And I apologize if I did not convey my message clearly enough.
EH
playing MiLB .. very cool
Academy grad - Air Force Officer .. honor
some who see those career paths on the same level may well have precluded an intelligent discussion
I think we'll see things work thru and this young young man will be fine
and btw, I could not speak for the thoughts & intentions of my own children with the assurance O44/EH have on someone they've never met or "known peripherally"
what is known peripherally anyway?
Academy grad - Air Force Officer .. honor
some who see those career paths on the same level may well have precluded an intelligent discussion
I think we'll see things work thru and this young young man will be fine
and btw, I could not speak for the thoughts & intentions of my own children with the assurance O44/EH have on someone they've never met or "known peripherally"
what is known peripherally anyway?
quote:by Orlando: Being one of the 4100+ minor league ballplayers is about as semi-public as you can get
EH/44
I don't think that ANYONE ever questioned character or giving up total commitment or Bolt being portrayed as a villan, those statements are UNFAIR. Let's not get what's really important confused here, that's the point. We all know it takes a special person to be accepted into the service academies.
My reply was about JWeaver's comments. Baseball is a great game, and getting drafted is wonderful and cool but not a great honor. Serving your country is a great honor not playing baseball. In reality it is a job, just like serving your country is a job. One job certainly has a lot more appeal than the other, but one is a lot more important than the other, that's where some people have this issue confused. IMO.
Whatever the decision that will be made by his superiors will be in his best interest. But to suggest it is more important for him to play baseball now, well some may not agree and do not have to agree with that statement. As I said no one has ever questioned his character.
Let's bring our troops home so they can watch a baseball game while sitting in the stands. That would certainly boost morale.
JMO.
I don't think that ANYONE ever questioned character or giving up total commitment or Bolt being portrayed as a villan, those statements are UNFAIR. Let's not get what's really important confused here, that's the point. We all know it takes a special person to be accepted into the service academies.
My reply was about JWeaver's comments. Baseball is a great game, and getting drafted is wonderful and cool but not a great honor. Serving your country is a great honor not playing baseball. In reality it is a job, just like serving your country is a job. One job certainly has a lot more appeal than the other, but one is a lot more important than the other, that's where some people have this issue confused. IMO.
Whatever the decision that will be made by his superiors will be in his best interest. But to suggest it is more important for him to play baseball now, well some may not agree and do not have to agree with that statement. As I said no one has ever questioned his character.
Let's bring our troops home so they can watch a baseball game while sitting in the stands. That would certainly boost morale.
JMO.
quote:Just please do not Question this young man's Character or his commitment to his Duty.
If you re-read my post, you will clearly see that I did neither of the above, and actually made a point to state that in my post. What I DID do was question a statement posted by you. You have stated that your intent was not conveyed by the words you chose...I will take your word for that.
Bee
I never said I never met the young man.
And i'm sure that O44 has met Him also in a round about way?
Thats why i'm so Proud of him.
luvbb,
[qoute] You have stated that your intent was not conveyed by the words you chose...I will take your word for that.[/qoute] Thank You
EH
quote:and btw, I could not speak for the thoughts & intentions of my own children with the assurance O44/EH have on someone they've never met or "known peripherally"
I never said I never met the young man.
And i'm sure that O44 has met Him also in a round about way?
Thats why i'm so Proud of him.
luvbb,
[qoute] You have stated that your intent was not conveyed by the words you chose...I will take your word for that.[/qoute] Thank You
EH
EH/OB44
I admire you both for defending the player as an honorable young man.
It wasn't the issue and I do understand about how things become personal.
If anything was ever stated negative about any of our kids, or any kids, I would zap it in a NY minute.
I hope that you both realize this was about the game of baseball and the non importance of it compared to other things in life, not a hit on the player.
I hope this clears up any comments regarding passing judgement on the player, I don't think that was done here.
Besides, moms very seldom pass judgement on another person's son.
JMO.
I admire you both for defending the player as an honorable young man.
It wasn't the issue and I do understand about how things become personal.
If anything was ever stated negative about any of our kids, or any kids, I would zap it in a NY minute.
I hope that you both realize this was about the game of baseball and the non importance of it compared to other things in life, not a hit on the player.
I hope this clears up any comments regarding passing judgement on the player, I don't think that was done here.
Besides, moms very seldom pass judgement on another person's son.
JMO.
There are some implied indignations in this thread which I believe are perhaps unwarranted - whether you know the young man in question or not. Reading between the lines, it appears some are miffed that the young man may be wanting to have things both ways - get a supreme education for free and then renegotiate something else when the pro option becomes viable. The military academies want it both ways as well. Why do I say that? They could end all this alleged controversy by making it a policy that incoming cadet's must forgo any pro aspirations up front but they have not. I am guessing this would hurt their recruiting... let me explain...
To me the issue with the young man in question is not if he will fullfill his obligation but when (I believe this is what ob44 has been saying). Thus far, he is just asking to delay it till sometime in the future which seems reasonable to me. None of his comments (that I have seen in print) seem to indicate he thinks he is above anything or is trying to get out of anything but others may see it differently.
Here is the other side of it rather than just focusing on this one young man. He has 30 other teammates who were not drafted. If the Academy were to get rid of the ball team just to eliminate the possibility of a kid getting drafted someday, then maybe they would never have been able to attract those 30 other kids in the first place. Thus, it seems to me a small risk for them to take to allow those very few players to have a chance at pro ball IF that even ever happens. Karl is one of very few players in the history of the Air Force Academy to be drafted.
CPLZ's son is going to West Point and I am guessing (correct me if I am wrong Chip) may not be there if they would have nixed the pro option up front. I believe West Point allows pro prospects to buy out their obligation for cash which I believe is 200,000 or something like that. I realize some may have a problem with that policy but the service academy may consider it an acceptable risk since all the other players on the team will indeed become service members. It could be argued that the team is an effective recruiting tool for them (the academies) in spite of the possibility one or two every now and then will be drafted.
I suppose the other option is for the Academies to tell all their athletes that there is no pro option at the end of the rainbow. Either commit to the military or forget the Academy. I am guessing this is not a workable solution for them or otherwise that policy would already be in place.
To me the issue with the young man in question is not if he will fullfill his obligation but when (I believe this is what ob44 has been saying). Thus far, he is just asking to delay it till sometime in the future which seems reasonable to me. None of his comments (that I have seen in print) seem to indicate he thinks he is above anything or is trying to get out of anything but others may see it differently.
Here is the other side of it rather than just focusing on this one young man. He has 30 other teammates who were not drafted. If the Academy were to get rid of the ball team just to eliminate the possibility of a kid getting drafted someday, then maybe they would never have been able to attract those 30 other kids in the first place. Thus, it seems to me a small risk for them to take to allow those very few players to have a chance at pro ball IF that even ever happens. Karl is one of very few players in the history of the Air Force Academy to be drafted.
CPLZ's son is going to West Point and I am guessing (correct me if I am wrong Chip) may not be there if they would have nixed the pro option up front. I believe West Point allows pro prospects to buy out their obligation for cash which I believe is 200,000 or something like that. I realize some may have a problem with that policy but the service academy may consider it an acceptable risk since all the other players on the team will indeed become service members. It could be argued that the team is an effective recruiting tool for them (the academies) in spite of the possibility one or two every now and then will be drafted.
I suppose the other option is for the Academies to tell all their athletes that there is no pro option at the end of the rainbow. Either commit to the military or forget the Academy. I am guessing this is not a workable solution for them or otherwise that policy would already be in place.
I believe the service academies do have a policy in place for cadets who have the opportunity to play professional sports involving two years of active duty and a partial repayment of the cost of their education (to the tune of six figures). I believe this policy was put into place to deal with the very few cadets who develop professional sports potential. The academies have already offered a compromise.
But I do have faith that each year 4,000 quality candidates without professional sports aspirations could be found to fill the incoming places at the service academies.
Much has been made in discussions here before about commitment, questioning the ethics of hs players who verbally commit to one school but change their minds when the possibility of a better offer comes along or programs who fail to fulfill on promises made or even inferred by a player or their families. IMHO, a commitment to serve your country after having been given the benefit of an academy education is much more serious than the commitment to play for any given baseball program and should be held to the exacting standards of those institutions. Or even the standards discussed here before about the value and lesson of commitment.
The academic and physical standards for entry into the academies are high, as are the levels of training in both aspects. Just as the programs any of our sons improved them as players, the coaching and additional physical training geared to make them better and more fit officers involved in four years at a service academy makes their players better and stronger.
About a third of any entry class into one of the academies washes out before graduation for a variety of reasons. It is my understanding that no active duty commitment is incurred until the start of their third year giving, in the instance of a potential professional player, the opportunity to transfer to a civilian universtiy where that potential could be fully explored.
But I do have faith that each year 4,000 quality candidates without professional sports aspirations could be found to fill the incoming places at the service academies.
Much has been made in discussions here before about commitment, questioning the ethics of hs players who verbally commit to one school but change their minds when the possibility of a better offer comes along or programs who fail to fulfill on promises made or even inferred by a player or their families. IMHO, a commitment to serve your country after having been given the benefit of an academy education is much more serious than the commitment to play for any given baseball program and should be held to the exacting standards of those institutions. Or even the standards discussed here before about the value and lesson of commitment.
The academic and physical standards for entry into the academies are high, as are the levels of training in both aspects. Just as the programs any of our sons improved them as players, the coaching and additional physical training geared to make them better and more fit officers involved in four years at a service academy makes their players better and stronger.
About a third of any entry class into one of the academies washes out before graduation for a variety of reasons. It is my understanding that no active duty commitment is incurred until the start of their third year giving, in the instance of a potential professional player, the opportunity to transfer to a civilian universtiy where that potential could be fully explored.
You guys are missing the point. Lt. Karl Bolt, as expressed by Academydad and by Lt. Bolt himself, wants to serve in the United States Air Force. He has requested of the Secretary of Defense an exception to his commitment to the Air Force.. not an out. He has requested that he be allowed to pursue baseball while working in an adapted duty to the Air Force.
West Point has a graduate currently doing the same thing. He plays baseball and works as a recruiter. In fact, ARMY may have more than one doing that. They had two get drafted this past year who signed contracts.
Baseball can be used as a recruitment tool not only for the Academies, but for the armed services themselves.
ARMY, NAVY, and Air Force all compete at the DI level. They need quality athletes to compete at that level. Some of them are going attract attention from MLB scouts.
If you don't want baseball players from the Academies to be drafted, please work to shut down the other sports programs supported by the armed forces that allow military personnel to compete in competitions throughout the world in track, swimming, etc. Might as well be equal, right?
West Point has a graduate currently doing the same thing. He plays baseball and works as a recruiter. In fact, ARMY may have more than one doing that. They had two get drafted this past year who signed contracts.
Baseball can be used as a recruitment tool not only for the Academies, but for the armed services themselves.
ARMY, NAVY, and Air Force all compete at the DI level. They need quality athletes to compete at that level. Some of them are going attract attention from MLB scouts.
If you don't want baseball players from the Academies to be drafted, please work to shut down the other sports programs supported by the armed forces that allow military personnel to compete in competitions throughout the world in track, swimming, etc. Might as well be equal, right?
quote:Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:
I'd say being drafted counts as a special circumstance.
Bulldog,
I think that this was the point in question. And I don't think I missed it.
IMO, pro baseball is the low job on totem poll as far as priorities. My response was to the above comment.
The only people I think I may have offended are those whose sons do this for a living, the same as mine. Until you or your sons are in that situtation some day don't be so quick to judge the importance over other things in life.
quote:Baseball can be used as a recruitment tool not only for the Academies, but for the armed services themselves.
With all due respect....I hardly think the Academies need a "recruitment tool" other than the desire to serve one's country at the highest levels....assignments to the Academies are highly selective and competitive where the demand greatly outnumbers the supply. That is one of the reasons why assignments are held with such prestige.
After dropping my youngest off for his first year of college (no, I did not squall), I stood in the airport waiting to board a plane to head to Chicago to watch my oldest for the first time, when a large group of soldiers arrived to a thunderous round of applause.
It struck me hard that what my family was enjoying was the result of those men and their predecessors have done.
On this board we applaud the success of those that continue to thrive in their baseball careers.
Here we have a young officer has two options that many of us would be proud for our sons to have either offer.
He faces a formidable task in attempting to do both.
Let's wish him well.
It struck me hard that what my family was enjoying was the result of those men and their predecessors have done.
On this board we applaud the success of those that continue to thrive in their baseball careers.
Here we have a young officer has two options that many of us would be proud for our sons to have either offer.
He faces a formidable task in attempting to do both.
Let's wish him well.
quote:You guys are missing the point. Lt. Karl Bolt, as expressed by Academydad and by Lt. Bolt himself, wants to serve in the United States Air Force. He has requested of the Secretary of Defense an exception to his commitment to the Air Force.. not an out. He has requested that he be allowed to pursue baseball while working in an adapted duty to the Air Force.
I didn't miss it, I was trying to stay out of any "personal" discussion when it came to Officer Bolt and was trying to dicuss the military in GENERAL when it comes to our service men and women.
A question I would ask you...what kind of disruption to the military would it cause if every service man and woman who wanted to "pursue a career opportunity" outside of the military requested a deferrment or adapted duty assignment? Lets even take out of the equation all of the military men and woman who have to deal with unbelievable "hardships" in order to serve (ie, moms and dads BOTH being sent overseas leaving behind small children) and if THEY were all granted deferrments or "adapted assignments", which according to stories I see on the news periodically...they are not? Or, all those stories you hear about reservists being called, served their time only to come home and be re-called to duty after having re-established their personal lives and careers? They all go and serve without benefit of deferrment or adapted assignements. Actually, I know of a couple of our websters who have family members who are in these situations.
I think this is an illustration of why the particular case can be a real hot button issue. And why some might question the issues of commitment and ethics. Unfortunately, I see it more as another indication of how the allure of professional sports is dissproportionately valued and revered in our society that we are even discussing this and that a deferrment or adapted assignment is an option in the U.S. military to accomodate a sports career...altho, I can't say I'm surprised.
How proud I am of Officer Bolt and his brother!
I wish the Air Force would really publicize his success across this country for him to be a role model for our young men and women in this day and age of Barry Bonds, Michael Vick, and Lindsay Lohan!
Here is one example of someone who has excellent character, an athlete at the top of his game who is getting to compete at the next level, and also wants to serve his country!
I wish the Air Force would really publicize his success across this country for him to be a role model for our young men and women in this day and age of Barry Bonds, Michael Vick, and Lindsay Lohan!
Here is one example of someone who has excellent character, an athlete at the top of his game who is getting to compete at the next level, and also wants to serve his country!
Very well said, luvbb. Please read her post, Bulldog, as that is, indeed, the point.
With the current situation of extended and multiple tours of duty in Iraq for the active military and reserve personell, the idea of an academy grad enjoying a modified assignment with playing minor league ball being used as a recruiter for the military is dishonest, as the military has no intention to adapt assignments for each signee's individual schedules; it would be impossible to operate that way.
I also don't understand using one as a "recruitment tool" for the Academies. With the number of young Americans vying for those spots, why would the Academies want to attract more cadets hoping to serve modified assignments while pursing a professional sports career which, if successful, would mean leaving the service completely without fulfilling their five year commitment?
Service personell from many countries compete in Olympic individual sports with the name of their country on their chests. The comparison to paid, professional team sports is invalid.
Like luvbb and TPM, I have been trying to avoid making this a personal issue, but a discussion of the principle involved.
With the current situation of extended and multiple tours of duty in Iraq for the active military and reserve personell, the idea of an academy grad enjoying a modified assignment with playing minor league ball being used as a recruiter for the military is dishonest, as the military has no intention to adapt assignments for each signee's individual schedules; it would be impossible to operate that way.
I also don't understand using one as a "recruitment tool" for the Academies. With the number of young Americans vying for those spots, why would the Academies want to attract more cadets hoping to serve modified assignments while pursing a professional sports career which, if successful, would mean leaving the service completely without fulfilling their five year commitment?
Service personell from many countries compete in Olympic individual sports with the name of their country on their chests. The comparison to paid, professional team sports is invalid.
Like luvbb and TPM, I have been trying to avoid making this a personal issue, but a discussion of the principle involved.
quote:With the current situation of extended and multiple tours of duty in Iraq for the active military and reserve personell, the idea of an academy grad enjoying a modified assignment with playing minor league ball being used as a recruiter for the military is dishonest, as the military has no intention to adapt assignments for each signee's individual schedules; it would be impossible to operate that way.
I just read this thread today for the first time. If this was my son, boy would I want him to have a chance to pursue being drafted. However, the posts that recognize to single out any military person for a special opportunity such as this presents problems.
My son has a HS friend that was 20 years old, and a year into the marines (now in Iraq), when his 17 year old girlfriend gave birth to a premature baby who was in NICU for weeks. He was allowed to come home (for a week I believe), but missed the birth of course and left this young single mother to deal with a preemie with health issues. That was a special circumstance. If we brought home all the young men and women in Iraq alone who were having "special circumstances" at home right now, there would be a lot. Not to mention, in the entire military.
It's not as simple as letting someone pursue pro ball.
Please read this article;
Notice who is publishing this article?? EH
Hill, Dinga Excel During First Months Of Pro Careers
Courtesy: Army Athletic Communications
Release: 07/27/2007
Courtesy: Army Athletic Communications
http://www.goarmysports.com
Nick Hill
Nick Hill's Minor League Statistics
Milan Dinga's Minor League Statistics
WEST POINT, N.Y. – Nick Hill and Milan Dinga spent their collegiate baseball careers dominating enemy batters. A move to the professional ranks hardly changed all of that.
Little more than a month into their respective professional baseball careers, both have experienced a great deal of early success in their first stops in the minor leagues.
While Hill was chosen in the seventh round by the Seattle Mariners during June’s Major League Baseball First-Year Player Draft and later assigned to the Everett (Wash.) AquaSox of the Northwest League (Class-A, Short Season), Dinga was snared in the 10th round by the Los Angeles Angels and assigned to the Orem (Ore.) Owlz of the Pioneer League (Rookie League).
Named to the ABCA Northeast Region First Team for the third time in four years last month, Hill closed his collegiate career by copping Patriot League Pitcher of the Year honors for the third time in four years. He established or tied 46 school and conference records on game, season and career levels across a brilliant four-year collegiate career.
A two-time All-America choice and the first player in Patriot League history to win conference pitcher of the year honors outright three times, the native of Bluff City, Tenn. (Sullivan East H.S.), stands as the first player since the league’s inception to earn first team all-conference honors four consecutive years. He ranks as Army’s career leader in pitching victories (modern era), strikeouts, shutouts and innings pitched, among others.
After starring for the USA National Baseball Team last summer, Hill has sparkled during his debut season in the professional ranks. The most decorated baseball player in Army history has allowed just one earned run across 13.1 innings of work, spanning 10 appearances. Hill has yielded just 12 base hits and six walks, while striking out 18. Despite sporting a gaudy 0.68 earned run average, he sports a deceiving 0-3 record.
Hill has been used exclusively out of the bullpen this summer by Everett in an effort to limit his workload. It is believed the Mariners will return Hill to starting duties next spring. In his most recent outing on Monday (July 23), Hill fired two perfect innings of relief against the Vancouver Canadians, fanning four of the six batters he faced.
“It’s been everything I could have hope for, getting to play baseball every day,” explains Hill. “I’m having the time of my life right now. We’re playing games every day. We’re always either playing a game or traveling to a game. I’m very appreciative of the opportunity the Army is giving me to live a dream.”
Dinga experienced similar success before being felled by shoulder troubles, which have landed him on Orem’s Disabled List. Prior to the setback, Dinga had emerged as Orem’s closer, posting one save and a 1.35 ERA across four appearances. He struck out six and walked one, while permitting six base hits and just one earned run in 6.2 innings of work.
The finest closer in Army history, Dinga successfully converted a school- and Patriot League-record 27 career saves during his days at the Academy. He regularly dominated batters during the late innings for four consecutive years while at the Academy, blossoming into one of the nation’s top relief specialists. Dinga successfully converted 27 of 29 career save opportunities, including 23 in a row during a three-year span that ended in his next-to-last collegiate appearance this spring. In all, he established or tied nine Army and Patriot League pitching records.
The Tampa, Fla. (Robinson H.S.), native was scored upon just five times in 61 career appearances, registering a microscopic 1.14 earned run average during that time. The "lights-out" stopper permitted just seven extra-base hits (all doubles) during his Army career, posting 28 consecutive appearances without allowing an extra-base hit during a stretch that spanned his junior and senior seasons. In all, he did not yield a triple or a home run across his collegiate career en route to posting a 4-1 record with 27 saves. A four-year letterwinner, he fanned 71 and walked only 10 for a remarkable 7:1 strikeout-walk ratio, allowing just 43 hits in 63.1 innings pitched.
Scored upon just once during both his junior and senior campaigns, Dinga scripted a school record consecutive scoreless appearance streak of 32 that spanned his junior and senior years, before yielding two runs during his next-to-last career outing. In six career pitching performances against arch-rival Navy, he went 1-0 with three saves and did not allow a single run. He struck out four, did not walk a batter and yielded just three hits in 5.1 innings of work versus the Mids.
“Ever since I was a little kid I dreamed of playing pro ball and it’s been everything I ever dreamed of,” states Dinga, who is currently at the Angels spring training facility in Tempe, Ariz., undergoing rehabilitation for his injured shoulder. “It’s very disappointing being injured, but I’m trying to stay positive and continue with my rehabilitation to get my shoulder better. The Army has been understanding enough to allow me to continue to play the game I love playing and I am very grateful for that.”
Notes: A third alumnus of Army’s baseball program, Josh Holden (USMA’03), is currently toiling in the minor leagues ... Holden is currently a member of the Sarasota (Fla.) Reds of the Florida State League (High Class-A) ... Holden (USMA ‘03) is in his third season with the Reds’ organization, spending the past two summers at Billings (Mont.) (Rookie League) and Dayton (Ohio) (Low-A), respectively ... in 56 games this year (146 official at-bats), Holden is batting .267 with 14 runs scored and 14 runs batted in ... the speedy outfielder has collected two doubles, four triples and nabbed seven stolen bases in 10 attempts ... following a slow start at the plate, Holden is batting .302 in his last 31 games, spanning two months ... he batted a blazing .357 during the month of June and is hitting .333 overall with runners in scoring position this season.
Notice who is publishing this article?? EH
Hill, Dinga Excel During First Months Of Pro Careers
Courtesy: Army Athletic Communications
Release: 07/27/2007
Courtesy: Army Athletic Communications
http://www.goarmysports.com
Nick Hill
Nick Hill's Minor League Statistics
Milan Dinga's Minor League Statistics
WEST POINT, N.Y. – Nick Hill and Milan Dinga spent their collegiate baseball careers dominating enemy batters. A move to the professional ranks hardly changed all of that.
Little more than a month into their respective professional baseball careers, both have experienced a great deal of early success in their first stops in the minor leagues.
While Hill was chosen in the seventh round by the Seattle Mariners during June’s Major League Baseball First-Year Player Draft and later assigned to the Everett (Wash.) AquaSox of the Northwest League (Class-A, Short Season), Dinga was snared in the 10th round by the Los Angeles Angels and assigned to the Orem (Ore.) Owlz of the Pioneer League (Rookie League).
Named to the ABCA Northeast Region First Team for the third time in four years last month, Hill closed his collegiate career by copping Patriot League Pitcher of the Year honors for the third time in four years. He established or tied 46 school and conference records on game, season and career levels across a brilliant four-year collegiate career.
A two-time All-America choice and the first player in Patriot League history to win conference pitcher of the year honors outright three times, the native of Bluff City, Tenn. (Sullivan East H.S.), stands as the first player since the league’s inception to earn first team all-conference honors four consecutive years. He ranks as Army’s career leader in pitching victories (modern era), strikeouts, shutouts and innings pitched, among others.
After starring for the USA National Baseball Team last summer, Hill has sparkled during his debut season in the professional ranks. The most decorated baseball player in Army history has allowed just one earned run across 13.1 innings of work, spanning 10 appearances. Hill has yielded just 12 base hits and six walks, while striking out 18. Despite sporting a gaudy 0.68 earned run average, he sports a deceiving 0-3 record.
Hill has been used exclusively out of the bullpen this summer by Everett in an effort to limit his workload. It is believed the Mariners will return Hill to starting duties next spring. In his most recent outing on Monday (July 23), Hill fired two perfect innings of relief against the Vancouver Canadians, fanning four of the six batters he faced.
“It’s been everything I could have hope for, getting to play baseball every day,” explains Hill. “I’m having the time of my life right now. We’re playing games every day. We’re always either playing a game or traveling to a game. I’m very appreciative of the opportunity the Army is giving me to live a dream.”
Dinga experienced similar success before being felled by shoulder troubles, which have landed him on Orem’s Disabled List. Prior to the setback, Dinga had emerged as Orem’s closer, posting one save and a 1.35 ERA across four appearances. He struck out six and walked one, while permitting six base hits and just one earned run in 6.2 innings of work.
The finest closer in Army history, Dinga successfully converted a school- and Patriot League-record 27 career saves during his days at the Academy. He regularly dominated batters during the late innings for four consecutive years while at the Academy, blossoming into one of the nation’s top relief specialists. Dinga successfully converted 27 of 29 career save opportunities, including 23 in a row during a three-year span that ended in his next-to-last collegiate appearance this spring. In all, he established or tied nine Army and Patriot League pitching records.
The Tampa, Fla. (Robinson H.S.), native was scored upon just five times in 61 career appearances, registering a microscopic 1.14 earned run average during that time. The "lights-out" stopper permitted just seven extra-base hits (all doubles) during his Army career, posting 28 consecutive appearances without allowing an extra-base hit during a stretch that spanned his junior and senior seasons. In all, he did not yield a triple or a home run across his collegiate career en route to posting a 4-1 record with 27 saves. A four-year letterwinner, he fanned 71 and walked only 10 for a remarkable 7:1 strikeout-walk ratio, allowing just 43 hits in 63.1 innings pitched.
Scored upon just once during both his junior and senior campaigns, Dinga scripted a school record consecutive scoreless appearance streak of 32 that spanned his junior and senior years, before yielding two runs during his next-to-last career outing. In six career pitching performances against arch-rival Navy, he went 1-0 with three saves and did not allow a single run. He struck out four, did not walk a batter and yielded just three hits in 5.1 innings of work versus the Mids.
“Ever since I was a little kid I dreamed of playing pro ball and it’s been everything I ever dreamed of,” states Dinga, who is currently at the Angels spring training facility in Tempe, Ariz., undergoing rehabilitation for his injured shoulder. “It’s very disappointing being injured, but I’m trying to stay positive and continue with my rehabilitation to get my shoulder better. The Army has been understanding enough to allow me to continue to play the game I love playing and I am very grateful for that.”
Notes: A third alumnus of Army’s baseball program, Josh Holden (USMA’03), is currently toiling in the minor leagues ... Holden is currently a member of the Sarasota (Fla.) Reds of the Florida State League (High Class-A) ... Holden (USMA ‘03) is in his third season with the Reds’ organization, spending the past two summers at Billings (Mont.) (Rookie League) and Dayton (Ohio) (Low-A), respectively ... in 56 games this year (146 official at-bats), Holden is batting .267 with 14 runs scored and 14 runs batted in ... the speedy outfielder has collected two doubles, four triples and nabbed seven stolen bases in 10 attempts ... following a slow start at the plate, Holden is batting .302 in his last 31 games, spanning two months ... he batted a blazing .357 during the month of June and is hitting .333 overall with runners in scoring position this season.
quote:“Ever since I was a little kid I dreamed of playing pro ball and it’s been everything I ever dreamed of,” states Dinga, who is currently at the Angels spring training facility in Tempe, Ariz., undergoing rehabilitation for his injured shoulder.
Eh....I do not think ANYONE is questioning whether this happens or not in the Academies. However, I DO find the above quote particularly interesting. I would THINK that those who attend any of the Military Academies might have a different "dream"...like serve their country in a high level military capacity????
I also find it interesting that this story does not mention AT ALL how these two men are going to fulfill their obligations to the US Military.
quote:I also find it interesting that this story does not mention AT ALL how these two men are going to fulfill their obligations to the US Military.
Officer Bolt starts work as a Logistics Officer at MacDill AFB in Tampa on Monday. He
has already gone over (about 15 minutes from the Phillies Training Facility in
Clearwater) and met his 3 levels of Superiors over him. He thinks so far they're
great. Each one of them has already stated they would like to see him continue
(live the All-American Dream), and if it can be done on a local level, they're
going to try. At least until the Pentagon makes some sort of decision. I just
saw an article on Nick Hill and Dinga (07 West Point grads) who are both playing
MiLB path is already set... in the off-season they report as Recruiting Officers for
the Army. That's their Active Duty.
EH
Now does anybody have a problem with that.
The Military doesn't think they have a problem.
In fact they promote it.
Why would they [ The Military ] embrace this.
Why.
WHY.
If I have to explain it. It will just fall on Deaf Ears.
EH
The Military doesn't think they have a problem.
In fact they promote it.
Why would they [ The Military ] embrace this.
Why.
WHY.
If I have to explain it. It will just fall on Deaf Ears.
EH
quote:Now does anybody have a problem with that.
The Military doesn't think they have a problem.
In fact they promote it.
Why would they [ The Military ] embrace this.
Why.
WHY.
If I have to explain it. It will just fall on Deaf Ears.
**************
Eh..can you hear me now?
quote:Eh..can you hear me now?
Yes. Loud and clear. LOL
This individual's are fine young men, In fact the finest.
All are Military Are the finest in the world.
And I know for a fact, That if and when the Military calls on these individuals to be Stationed anywhere the Military want's to send them.
They will go, No questions asked.
They will do it with Commitment and with Honor.
EH
quote:And I know for a fact, That if and when the Military calls on these individuals to be Stationed anywhere the Military want's to send them.
They will go, No questions asked.
They will do it with Commitment and with Honor.
Actually Eh...the military DID call (when they entered the Academy and an agreement was entered into) and they DID ask a question when the time came for them to be assigned (can I have a deferred or alternate assignment?). Because I honestly do NOT think the Academy and the US Military had "part time recruitment officer in the pro-ball off season" as a job description in mind when they entered the Academy for that four-year prestigious education!
"Individuals", EH? In the military?
The question isn't about individuals; it's about the principle of commitment, in this case a commitment to serve your country for five years, partially in repayment for the gift of a $400,000 (the Academies' figure) education and certainly out of a stated desire to serve. And about fair play; if you commit to serve whether as a well-educated officer or a private, that commitment should be fulfilled, not deferred because of an elected "better offer".
West Point's motto is Duty, Honor, Country; I'm sure the other Academies have similiar rallying points. But I bet none of them are Duty, Honor, Country...On My Schedule.
The question isn't about individuals; it's about the principle of commitment, in this case a commitment to serve your country for five years, partially in repayment for the gift of a $400,000 (the Academies' figure) education and certainly out of a stated desire to serve. And about fair play; if you commit to serve whether as a well-educated officer or a private, that commitment should be fulfilled, not deferred because of an elected "better offer".
West Point's motto is Duty, Honor, Country; I'm sure the other Academies have similiar rallying points. But I bet none of them are Duty, Honor, Country...On My Schedule.
My son plays baseball at West Point. West Point is the currently the only service academy with a "pro service option" that will allow a player to pursue a pro career after graduation (they cannot be drafted in baseball after their junior year like normal college players).
The pro service option has the player serve as an Army recruiter for his first two off seasons. If he continues in pro ball, he buys out a remainder of his obligation, currently around $33,000, and his remaining three years of obligation would be doubled to 6 and placed in the inactive reserves. This means, that at anytime, the Army can call him back...as they see fit.
Army baseball had its best recruiting year ever this year, including 6 or 7 players that would have been drafted if not for their committment to West Point. The pro service option opens the door to a higher caliber player in all sports that support pro endeavors. My son would have never attended without the option to play professionally. These are agreed upon terms by both player/cadet and the Army. Some players drafted in the past, played for a year in the minors and then quit baseball to rejoin the Army and be shipped overseas. It's what they wanted to do. Whichever route these players go, either pro or military service, there are no losers, only winners. None of them that I have met, for a second think of military service as an obligation, they all view it as a privilige, the same as they view pro baseball. Personally, I find that quite refreshing.
Take a look at it from the Army's perspective. The US Army is the #1 advertiser in all of pro sports. By placing West Point grads in the pro's they are holding up for the country, examples of their fine institution. Pure gold from a marketing perspective, and the cheapest advertising the Army could buy. It works on every level for both the Cadet and the Army.
To try and end the debate about "what about the person who didn't get into West Point and would have preferred to serve in the military?" West Point is not the only way to serve in the Army as an officer. If that is truly their goal, they would hardly be dissuaded by rejection from West Point. Those that never serve active duty and go on to the pro's, they serve their country as examples held up for scrutiny every day. And every day they answer the call with head held high. They feel great affection for their country, their comrades, and their institution...and carry that message forward wherever they go.
Go Army...Beat Everybody
The pro service option has the player serve as an Army recruiter for his first two off seasons. If he continues in pro ball, he buys out a remainder of his obligation, currently around $33,000, and his remaining three years of obligation would be doubled to 6 and placed in the inactive reserves. This means, that at anytime, the Army can call him back...as they see fit.
Army baseball had its best recruiting year ever this year, including 6 or 7 players that would have been drafted if not for their committment to West Point. The pro service option opens the door to a higher caliber player in all sports that support pro endeavors. My son would have never attended without the option to play professionally. These are agreed upon terms by both player/cadet and the Army. Some players drafted in the past, played for a year in the minors and then quit baseball to rejoin the Army and be shipped overseas. It's what they wanted to do. Whichever route these players go, either pro or military service, there are no losers, only winners. None of them that I have met, for a second think of military service as an obligation, they all view it as a privilige, the same as they view pro baseball. Personally, I find that quite refreshing.
Take a look at it from the Army's perspective. The US Army is the #1 advertiser in all of pro sports. By placing West Point grads in the pro's they are holding up for the country, examples of their fine institution. Pure gold from a marketing perspective, and the cheapest advertising the Army could buy. It works on every level for both the Cadet and the Army.
To try and end the debate about "what about the person who didn't get into West Point and would have preferred to serve in the military?" West Point is not the only way to serve in the Army as an officer. If that is truly their goal, they would hardly be dissuaded by rejection from West Point. Those that never serve active duty and go on to the pro's, they serve their country as examples held up for scrutiny every day. And every day they answer the call with head held high. They feel great affection for their country, their comrades, and their institution...and carry that message forward wherever they go.
Go Army...Beat Everybody
quote:West Point's motto is Duty, Honor, Country; I'm sure the other Academies have similiar rallying points. But I bet none of them are Duty, Honor, Country On My Schedule.
Then WHY oh Why, Did the Military agree to these Individuals Request??
Orlando, You seem to be worried about that Dollar amount being paid back to the Tax Payers.
It must be driving you crazy to have Billions and billions and billions of Tax Payers money being unaccounted for in Iraq.
EH
quote:To try and end the debate about "what about the person who didn't get into West Point and would have preferred to serve in the military?" West Point is not the only way to serve in the Army as an officer. If that is truly their goal, they would hardly be dissuaded by rejection from West Point.
CPZL..thank you for the elaboration on "how things work" at West Point. It was very interesting, and best of luck to your son. Actually, one of my son's good friends/teammates from high school is a team mate of your son's.
Re: the above, perhaps I "mistyped" before..but only one of the many issues brought forth so far had to do with taking the military academy EDUCATION, prestige and advantages (ie, life-long contacts and opportunities) away from someone who's dream is to serve in the military...and give it to someone who's dream is to play professional baseball (as mentioned in the article posted by Eh). It wasn't necessarily "just" about becoming an officer in the military. Obviously, that can be attained several different ways and thru different avenues.
Oh, EH, for heaven's sake. I mentioned the figure to demonstrate that the facilities and education provided by the service academies is of a different level than civilian universities. I'm not "worried" about anything here and would hardly engage in a debate with you about military accounting.
I'm long past thinking I can have any impact on the military's decisions. But the rationale that they can accept and educate a young man to be an officer in wartime in order to hold him up as a professional ballplayer recruiting tool to enhance their advertising efforts to get more young people to send off to that war seems cynical in the extreme.
I'm long past thinking I can have any impact on the military's decisions. But the rationale that they can accept and educate a young man to be an officer in wartime in order to hold him up as a professional ballplayer recruiting tool to enhance their advertising efforts to get more young people to send off to that war seems cynical in the extreme.
