Personally, I don’t care what age my kid competes against. But I do think it would be dumb to allow a 20 year old to go back to high school just so he can get another year of high school baseball.
Dan1122 posted:Why not they did it for college level players. My son is a high school senior and he will have to compete for playing time at his college with a guy who graduated in 2015. So why not allow it at high school level.
for me personally, the argument isn't about competing. It's really more of the social and life situation. I just think it is silly to let some kids come back to high school just to play another year of a sport.
I don't really have a firm opinion on how the NCAA should handle it because my son is still 3 years away. However, I would think it would make sense for most college seniors to just move on and start their careers. If they are a legit draft prospect, then maybe they should return. Again, I don't follow the ins and outs of how the NCAA is handling it.
By the end of senior year, I was excited (desperate) to get my son out of the house . . . and he was ready (desperate) to go.
If you aren’t reevaluating your situation based on the new circumstances you are asleep at the wheel. If you are bound by a NLI you may not have any options. A HS senior going back for another year of HS baseball is ridiculous IMO. A post grad year would make much more sense. That route allows for collecting college credit hours and for development of baseball skills. Neither of which will be gained by another year of HS. The big question (and what will impact most rosters) are how many college seniors will actually want to come back AND how many will be welcomed back. I imagine this is going to vary program to program. But if you are planning on any kind of walk on situation you better understand that the odds have changed considerably - and not in your favor. The same would apply if you only have an academic scholarship. What all of this means for a 2020 HS senior who hasn’t signed a NLI is that Junior College is probably your best baseball option. In all likelihood it already was but adding the potential of a 5th recruiting class at every 4 year school has emphasized the point.
Great post adbono. If that extra year is going to make that much of a difference, go to IMG. You'll be around much better players than your typical high school, and you'll be getting great instruction for that year.
Yes, if your kid isn't ready and needs that extra year to up his/her game, go to IMG or other post grad programs. (That's the only one I've heard of). If you don't and aren't worried about the small number of seniors coming back than move on. How many seniors across the board are 1) eligible 2) aren't drafting 3) offered 4) will get a spot and be able to afford that extra year 5) able to get into and pay for graduate school.... This isn't football. These aren't full rides. There are a lot of moving parts to this and I think we all have way too much free time to noodle on this and worry about the unknown right now.
I think people are making it a bigger issue than it will end up being to most programs. Sure, Maybe other programs have more or too many seniors in their classes, but the rest just don't. If your "corona" recruiting class is 3-5, yeah it just got different/harder but not that much. You didn't/couldn't draft for a reason....
I do hope they push the draft back to July to allow them a chance to get back in shape/showcase/combine and make decisions before affecting the academic year and programs in August.
Again, creating a big issue from a very very small sample set for a much LARGER population and programs for years to come.
Life happens and sometimes it gets in the way. But it still happens.
TerribleBPthrower posted:Great post adbono. If that extra year is going to make that much of a difference, go to IMG. You'll be around much better players than your typical high school, and you'll be getting great instruction for that year.
It’s not on the scale, status or price tag of IMG, but TCS Post Grad in North Texas does a good job and has produced results for a lot of kids. I’m sure there are similar post grad programs in other states as well.
SoFloRHP posted:
Trying to read the tea leaves of what everyone is likely going to do & the long term affects can get mind-boggling.
What's actually mind boggling, is that at this time, anyone would ask such a question, considering no one has a clue about anything here in FL much less about HS sports eligibility at this point in time.
JMO
IMG is like $70k/year. There are a ton of post grad programs that are way less expensive. Most play a fall and spring schedule against JUCOs and have training etc. If the NCAA extends additional eligibility to more than just current seniors, rosters are going to be jammed up. I could see current 2021s and 2022s reclassifying with PG etc and just planning on going Post Grad after HS.
langra posted:IMG is like $70k/year. There are a ton of post grad programs that are way less expensive. Most play a fall and spring schedule against JUCOs and have training etc. If the NCAA extends additional eligibility to more than just current seniors, rosters are going to be jammed up. I could see current 2021s and 2022s reclassifying with PG etc and just planning on going Post Grad after HS.
The sub varsity kids are paying full boat. Don't buy for a second that their first round draft picks or national championship football team has kids paying 70k to go there.
IMG is what it is. But for every world class athlete they get, there are 5 more who aren't. The average players subsidize it for the elite talent. Same model for the elite travel programs.
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:once you start playing high school varsity age baseball, age needs to be the last thing you think about because it likely is the last thing the coach is thinking about. If you are the young kid, you better show up ready to rake and battle for time. If you are the older guy, you better have that rear view mirror properly adjusted to see who is coming for your spot!
This gets lost on this board a lot. Once you make a varsity team age no longer matters. In 2019's case, he was playing varsity as a freshmen. The first strikeout he recorded in HS was against a 19 year old senior committed to a P5 program. The first homerun he gave up was against a random 15 year old sophomore batting 8th for the worst team in our conference. After playing varsity as a freshman you know what would've done him absolutely no good, going back and playing 14u baseball that summer against some guys who were still in 8th grade. So he played 17u and learned how to pitch and hit the hard way.
One of the kids he rooms with is very young for their grade, moved into his dorm at 17. There are 2 24 year olds on the roster. Kids literally 7 years older than him. It doesn't matter because that is the competition.
Whenever I see a post about a "young 15" or concerns about a 19 year old player I roll my eyes.
Anybody willing to do another year of HS to play one more season is foolish in my opinion and the parents are even worse for allowing it to happen. Now if there are scholarship issues and a kid needs to take a PG year or head to a juco then that's a different story. But high schoolers with no offers looking to reclass because there is "less" 2021/2022 money is insane. College is what you do, baseball is what you do to make it cheaper/allow you to go somewhere you may not have been able to. Unless your kids is a potential pro (some on here are) there really isn't a business plan to follow
PABaseball posted:
College is what you do, baseball is what you do to make it cheaper/allow you to go somewhere you may not have been able to. Unless your kids is a potential pro (some on here are) there really isn't a business plan to follow
^^^^This.
TerribleBPthrower posted:Dan1122 posted:Why not they did it for college level players. My son is a high school senior and he will have to compete for playing time at his college with a guy who graduated in 2015. So why not allow it at high school level.
for me personally, the argument isn't about competing. It's really more of the social and life situation. I just think it is silly to let some kids come back to high school just to play another year of a sport.
I don't really have a firm opinion on how the NCAA should handle it because my son is still 3 years away. However, I would think it would make sense for most college seniors to just move on and start their careers. If they are a legit draft prospect, then maybe they should return. Again, I don't follow the ins and outs of how the NCAA is handling it.
For some kids an additional year of eligibility is a back door into grad school. But it should only be used because the player wants the grad degree, not just to stay and play.
My son missed freshman year due to injury. He graduated on time. He used remaining eligibility to gain admittance to a top twenty-five MBA program (same school). It was his plan from the day he knew he wouldn’t be playing freshman year.
RJM, to me, that makes total sense. I think the best way to summarize my thoughts, if there is an academic reason to stay another year, then go for it.
Whenever I see a post about a "young 15" or concerns about a 19 year old player I roll my eyes.
👍
High school is 19u. College is 23u. Either you’re ready or your not. My son has a May birthday. I never thought he was playing up in travel while playing with his grade Or up two years when he went to 17u. From an eligibility date deadline he was. Once he grew from 5’4” to 5’11” from 8th grade to freshman year there was no longer anything different to see on the field between him and other players.
Worrying about when your kid’s birthday falls is just an excuse. If it matters that much people should have planned their kids to be born in the fall.
PABaseball posted:langra posted:IMG is like $70k/year. There are a ton of post grad programs that are way less expensive. Most play a fall and spring schedule against JUCOs and have training etc. If the NCAA extends additional eligibility to more than just current seniors, rosters are going to be jammed up. I could see current 2021s and 2022s reclassifying with PG etc and just planning on going Post Grad after HS.
The sub varsity kids are paying full boat. Don't buy for a second that their first round draft picks or national championship football team has kids paying 70k to go there.
IMG is what it is. But for every world class athlete they get, there are 5 more who aren't. The average players subsidize it for the elite talent. Same model for the elite travel programs.
Right. I'm assuming that players who are considering post grad as a solution to the problems caused both by losing a recruiting cycle and crowded NCAA rosters aren't 1st round draft picks. It doesn't make sense for the kinds of players we are talking about to spend $70k with IMG.
Article about Kentucky allowing HS students another year of HS, with athletic eligibility; it's about a football player, but many things might apply:
I really hope this doesn't become a trend. This is just keeps moving the age/class of the kids getting screwed back a year.
High school should be get your diploma and move on. Everything else is an extracurricular activity. If you lost a year of sports that’s the breaks. High school isn’t designed to be a minor leagues for college sports.
I'm not for it, but my kid could easily find 4-5 AP classes at his HS to take that he didn't have room in his schedule for. Depending on where you attend, if the college accepts AP credit, you could knock out a semester of college for FREE and put some distance between the player and a nasty bubble of impacted recruiting classes. I wouldn't do it, but I see how some kids would consider it.
@LousyLefty posted:I'm not for it, but my kid could easily find 4-5 AP classes at his HS to take that he didn't have room in his schedule for. Depending on where you attend, if the college accepts AP credit, you could knock out a semester of college for FREE and put some distance between the player and a nasty bubble of impacted recruiting classes. I wouldn't do it, but I see how some kids would consider it.
My son used AP credit and a couple of summer school courses to graduate in three years. With an injury entering college and knowing he had five to play four he left with a BA and a MBA.
@LousyLefty posted:I'm not for it, but my kid could easily find 4-5 AP classes at his HS to take that he didn't have room in his schedule for. Depending on where you attend, if the college accepts AP credit, you could knock out a semester of college for FREE and put some distance between the player and a nasty bubble of impacted recruiting classes. I wouldn't do it, but I see how some kids would consider it.
Do your homework. I've got 3 kids who took between 6 and 10 AP classes in HS. None of them, and I mean zero, counted for college credit towards their major in college. A few classes entitled them to skip introductory level courses but resulted in a much more difficult freshman year of advanced classes.
@Smitty28 posted:Do your homework. I've got 3 kids who took between 6 and 10 AP classes in HS. None of them, and I mean zero, counted for college credit towards their major in college. A few classes entitled them to skip introductory level courses but resulted in a much more difficult freshman year of advanced classes.
I get your point but it can save $$$ tuition if they offer the credit.
@Smitty28 posted:Do your homework. I've got 3 kids who took between 6 and 10 AP classes in HS. None of them, and I mean zero, counted for college credit towards their major in college. A few classes entitled them to skip introductory level courses but resulted in a much more difficult freshman year of advanced classes.
Our HS offers what they call "dual enrollment". For some courses, for an extra $15/class the student earns college credit via the local community college. A student I know earned enough college credits by the time he graduated HS to be considered a "junior" when he actually started attending a 4 year university. He was not an athlete.
My son did dual enrollment with a local 4 year school. Was able to have all those credits and his AP credits over.
As far as AP goes, while it's may be nice to get out of some intro classes. The class taught at college is usually better than the AP course in HS.
It’s typically state universities that allow college credit for AP courses. Privates typically only use AP courses for advanced placement in college such as skipping applicable 100 level courses.
I also can vouch for Dual Enrollment, and it's definitely better than AP. My daughter (non-athlete) graduated from HS with 30 hrs of college credits already, all from dual enrollment. She was able to take a gap semester (fall of her freshman year) and go on missions trip, which helped her figure out the major she wants in college (social work). Even with the gap semester, she still graduates early and has 1 more year of state scholarship eligibility that she will use for her grad degree. Her college is almost free right now with the state scholarship (thanks to lottery). All of these w/o any athletic scholarship.
As to my baseball player son, I am one of the dads who does think about his age (and constantly have my hands slapped in this forum for doing so - rightfully). As I shared in other posts, while other people are thinking of their son's "athletic career" while their son was still in kindergarten or grade school, it didn't even enter our minds when we put our son a grade up during elementary school. We always felt (and still do) that starting his life a year ahead is a big advantage for the rest of his life. But my son isn't happy with it as he thinks his numbers would be a lot impressive compared to 2024s vs. 2023s. I keep trying to brush him off but I wonder if there comes a point in time where we need to seriously consider if a PG year would be good for him given his age. But then I don't get the value of a PG year vs. JUCO. Why not just do JUCO (cheaper and much better competition)? JUCO wouldn't start his eligibility clock ticking if he later transfer to a 4 yr university, right? And even if we don't take baseball (or athletics) into consideration, the more I look at colleges here, the more JUCO makes sense in terms of cost (start 1 or 2 years in JUCO before transfering to a 4 yr university).
I agree with RJM. Most HA and private schools will not count classes taken in HS. A friends daughter has 30 dual-enrollment credits and NYU took 12 of them, so it does happen.
I don't get the taking of AP over Dual Enrollment from private colleges. I get it if they don't take some of the Dual Enrollment credits in the same way as AP. But to credit an AP class over a dual enrollment class doesn't make sense to me.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:I agree with RJM. Most HA and private schools will not count classes taken in HS. A friends daughter has 30 dual-enrollment credits and NYU took 12 of them, so it does happen.
It depends. Both my kids went to a private school and they took all the dual credit classes. They didn't lose any hours to electives either. Both went in with 24 hours. It probably helps that the private school is in the same state as the school offering dual credit but my daughter is done and finished in 3 years. Saved us a lot of money.
@atlnon posted:I also can vouch for Dual Enrollment, and it's definitely better than AP. My daughter (non-athlete) graduated from HS with 30 hrs of college credits already, all from dual enrollment. She was able to take a gap semester (fall of her freshman year) and go on missions trip, which helped her figure out the major she wants in college (social work). Even with the gap semester, she still graduates early and has 1 more year of state scholarship eligibility that she will use for her grad degree. Her college is almost free right now with the state scholarship (thanks to lottery). All of these w/o any athletic scholarship.
As to my baseball player son, I am one of the dads who does think about his age (and constantly have my hands slapped in this forum for doing so - rightfully). As I shared in other posts, while other people are thinking of their son's "athletic career" while their son was still in kindergarten or grade school, it didn't even enter our minds when we put our son a grade up during elementary school. We always felt (and still do) that starting his life a year ahead is a big advantage for the rest of his life. But my son isn't happy with it as he thinks his numbers would be a lot impressive compared to 2024s vs. 2023s. I keep trying to brush him off but I wonder if there comes a point in time where we need to seriously consider if a PG year would be good for him given his age. But then I don't get the value of a PG year vs. JUCO. Why not just do JUCO (cheaper and much better competition)? JUCO wouldn't start his eligibility clock ticking if he later transfer to a 4 yr university, right? And even if we don't take baseball (or athletics) into consideration, the more I look at colleges here, the more JUCO makes sense in terms of cost (start 1 or 2 years in JUCO before transfering to a 4 yr university).
Completely agree with your rationale about the JuCo route. That’s why I suggest it for most guys out of HS. I would highly suggest that you go to as many JuCo games as you can, beginning this fall, to get a feel for where your son can get on the field. I don’t know anything about JuCos in Georgia but in the regions that surround your state there are some powerhouse JuCo baseball programs. Chipola (FL), Walters St (TN), Pearl River (MS), LSU Eunice (LA), just to name a few. Teams like those are very, very good. Likely better than you think. See enough different teams play to get a feel where your son fits. Then target the appropriate schools and go to on campus prospect camps. JuCos actually use those to recruit.
Wait, I'm confused: isn't playing at a JUCO using years of college eligibility?
@atlnon, you should plan on JuCo being a 2 year commitment if you are a recruited player - especially if on scholarship
@anotherparent posted:Wait, I'm confused: isn't playing at a JUCO using years of college eligibility?
Is it? I don't even know the answer to this. I'm so confused about which rules applies differently (or independently) to NCAA vs. NAIA vs. JUCO and which rules applies to all of them. Like I was surprised to find out recently that you can be drafted anytime out of JUCO vs. you have to stay for 3 years in D1 (or all NCAA) schools to be eligible.
@adbono posted:@atlnon, you should plan on JuCo being a 2 year commitment if you are a recruited player - especially if on scholarship
Do they in turn give you a commitment for 2 years worth of scholarships? Honestly, I keep telling my son that I don't care as much about the scholarship if he goes in state public school bec he already gets most of his academic expense paid for through the state scholarship. And if we have to pay some, I've already planned to pay for it even before I realized he was good at baseball and that athletic scholarship was even a possibility. I would rather him play w/o the pressure of maintaining athletic scholarship. But I do understand the value of getting an offer bec it means the coach really wants you.
@anotherparent posted:Wait, I'm confused: isn't playing at a JUCO using years of college eligibility?
Yes. Playing at a JuCo counts towards the years of college eligibility.
@FoxDad posted:Yes. Playing at a JuCo counts towards the years of college eligibility.
But no requirement to sit out a year for transferees, right? I guess that's what I was thinking more of (no need to waste a year to sit out if going from Juco to D1).
@atlnon posted:But no requirement to sit out a year for transferees, right? I guess that's what I was thinking more of (no need to waste a year to sit out if going from Juco to D1).
No requirement to sit out, but transfer from JuCo to D1 or D2 is much easier if Associates Degree is obtained from JuCo prior to transfer
@atlnon posted:Like I was surprised to find out recently that you can be drafted anytime out of JUCO vs. you have to stay for 3 years in D1 (or all NCAA) schools to be eligible.
@atlnon
Nope. A player can get drafted as a sophomore in college (after two years) if he is 21 years old. Many elect to stay an additional year to raise their stock in the draft. Not sure how having only 20 rounds in the draft this year effected staying or going though.
@atlnon posted:But no requirement to sit out a year for transferees, right? I guess that's what I was thinking more of (no need to waste a year to sit out if going from Juco to D1).
Correct. Foxson transferred to a D2 after two years at JuCo. Did not have to sit out for a year.