Should I just pull him?

What position does your son play?

You are going to get a lot of answers, some wont agree, however, I am a firm believer in if you pay, travel ball, you play.

And you are right, it's  a lot of money, and money that can be better  spent and I advise parents to save money for college because it's expensive.

Your son also won't get better sitting on the bench. Find out first if he can play in the rec league.

Sit down and have a discussion with your son.  I personally see nothing wrong with confronting the person that gladly took your check.

Find another Travel Team.  Not only is it ridiculous to charge money for a team and then never play some of the players, but also some of the kids who are playing all the time are going to get hurt.  So it’s not a good travel program for a multitude of reasons

I’d forget about getting your money back though

TPM he plays 1st/2nd/OF. On his old teams he usually led off and always led in steals. He is tall and fast. His batting is good, exit velocity measured last year at age 14 at 75. I just feel like he is on this other HS teams summer practice team!
I would rather have him on a lower tier team where he actually plays. What kills me is they didn’t even give these few benched kids a chance to see what they could do, 5 games in and not one inning.

I am certain he can play on the rec team, as my friend is the commissioner and they could use more players . I spoke to my son and he has no desire to spend every weekend this summer riding a bench. He loves baseball and it kills me to see him so dejected.

I just found a early email from the man that runs the league that we should not call him if our kid sits a whole game but should if he sits multiple or an entire weekend. Guess I will call tomorrow and see about that.

Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks for the advice 3and2fastball, don’t think he can get on another travel team now, but I guess it is what it is. We made a poor choice. I figured getting any money back is a long shot but thought I would give it a try. Would rather he enjoy his summer than deal with this!

@Jen234 posted:

....

I just found a early email from the man that runs the league that we should not call him if our kid sits a whole game but should if he sits multiple or an entire weekend. Guess I will call tomorrow and see about that.

...

Welcome to the site. 

I am a bit confused... you said he joined a travel team.  Why would a man who runs the league have any bearing on how much players play?  What was the agreement with the travel team with regard to playing time when signing to join and pay $1800?

When you play HS ball and college ball there are no guarantees of playing time.  You have to earn it.  A player may play a little, a lot or not at all.  That's the way it is and should be.

However... TPM is right.  When you play with a travel organization and pay more than a small amount, that almost always comes with some stated agreement of expectations and commitment from both parties.  This agreement almost always includes some general predetermined minimal play expectations.  Going forward, make sure these, among other things, are part of any agreement when having your son join a pay-to-play travel organization.

Meanwhile, I am very curious about what type of team/organization/league took that kind of money from you with no playing time.  Is there significant instruction, practices, evaluation, etc., included?  What does the $1800 cover?

Sorry, I misspoke cabbagedad, I meant the man who runs the travel ball organization.

i didn’t realize we should have signed an agreement about playing time, etc. we were simply told everyone would play but not everyone would get equal time. That’s on me, didn’t realize and should have asked. On his 11-14u teams we didn’t have issues like this as they had 11-12 kids tops and everyone sat a bit. Was fairly equitable.

For the $1800 he got fall and some spring practices in an indoor facility with his coaches and the ability to use the batting cages on certain days. Three coaches (college age) and the shortstops dad as a coach. Any additional training with guys brought in (strength training, camps, etc) cost extra. His team will have weekly local league games (1x/week) and are signed up for 7 tournaments.

“...shortstops dad as a coach.”

This is a major red flag while paying $1,800 for high school travel ball unless the dad coaches for his living.    Otherwise, dad probably built a youth team around his son and then brought that team as a package to an organization.  That will be a tough roster to crack and the kids may be cliqueish having been together for a long time.  Always ask if there are any dads involved in coaching and if so, what are their qualifications.

You should get equal time on the showcase circuit. No need to pay for someone else to play. Better to spend your dollars elsewhere.

@Jen234 posted:

Sorry, I misspoke cabbagedad, I meant the man who runs the travel ball organization.

i didn’t realize we should have signed an agreement about playing time, etc. we were simply told everyone would play but not everyone would get equal time. That’s on me, didn’t realize and should have asked. On his 11-14u teams we didn’t have issues like this as they had 11-12 kids tops and everyone sat a bit. Was fairly equitable.

For the $1800 he got fall and some spring practices in an indoor facility with his coaches and the ability to use the batting cages on certain days. Three coaches (college age) and the shortstops dad as a coach. Any additional training with guys brought in (strength training, camps, etc) cost extra. His team will have weekly local league games (1x/week) and are signed up for 7 tournaments.

No worries... good to hear there is/was at least some other value.  Sounds like that early email you found will be a good discussion point to determine what to expect and what to do going forward.

I'll add... as you go up in age groups, the total numbers on the rosters will typically grow quite a bit but this doesn't mean there won't be some reasonably equitable rotation with playing time.

2021’s travel team carried 4 catchers.

As far as timelines, they committed  D1 first, then D3, then D2. Last catcher is potential pitcher, and will likely go JC route.

In all cases coaches featured catcher who was being scouted that day. Other catchers played the corners or sat. We batted all position players.

Coaches did not have kids on the team.

Best way to go for any summer travel teams—be wary of those who want to favor their own kids or want to win at all costs.

Argh. I hate to hear stories like this. But, it happens. Too often.  

You need to get off that team  - ASAP. The coach has no intention of developing your son. He is simply making you pay his insurance premium in case one of his starters gets hurt.

Now he will tell you and your son that he has every intention of playing him, that the time last weekend just wasn’t right, that your son has to earn it. Yadda yadda yadda. Forgettaboutit. Your son and your family are second class citizens, it’s not gonna change. And even if he does give your son some playing time, there will be so much pressure and negativity around it that it will affect your sons performance.

In short, the coach is a bad guy and a loser and you need to leave  

Find somewhere else where your son will play the most, even if it’s rec league.  Ask for your $1800 back but don’t expect to see any of it. Chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned. And don’t be shy about telling other families what happened; baseball is a small world.  

And then never, NEVER EVER pay the full season upfront. Plead poverty and negotiate a monthly payment plan. That way you can cut your losses if this happens again.

And it might. There are A LOT of jerks around.

I’m sorry this happened to you. Why are some people  such jerks? How is it that they have no shame?

Thank you for all your advice, it is helpful.

22and25 you are right, the majority of this team came over from another organization, 9 boys. Those 9 played all 5 games this past weekend while our boys watched from the sidelines. I am sorry to say didn’t realize this sooner, wish I had. As it was a new organization for us, we really only knew a few local boys on his team.  

I lay here at almost 3am just torn up about this for my son. I will contact the coach and the head of the organization tomorrow for a meeting. I don’t see any good coming from it and am now painfully aware they don’t care about his development and am certain we have to leave. He has such a bad taste in his mouth already and like someone said, there is just too much negativity now surrounding it. I feel so bad for making him go to sit at those last 2 games in the 5 game series of sitting...thanks again all.

@Jen234 posted:

I don’t see any good coming from it and am now painfully aware they don’t care about his development and am certain we have to leave.

I think if what you wrote here at 3am is accurate then pull him.  If he won't play and if you feel the program is not helping him develop then he's better off getting reps in the rec league or working on his game other ways.  The better travel teams have great practices during the week that work on developing players.  It's at these practices that my son's game improved.   At his age he needs to continue to work on developing his game.  The money is sunk at this point is my guess.  Move on and feel good about your decision. 

Whoever you paid, I would not ask for your money back, I would demand it.

Just got a chance to read this thread, and I feel for you on this one. No need to feel guilty about the situation, teams/coaches like this shouldn’t exist. Heck, even POs get some innings. If it was my kid he would no longer be on this team. Rec leagues are fun no doubt, but don’t discount the option of guest playing either. Call around a little and you might find a team or two that could use him occasionally this summer. Not everyone has that much depth. There are a lot of good teams in the PA/NJ/MD//DE area.

@TPM posted:

Whoever you paid, I would not ask for your money back, I would demand it.

Also, I 2nd this statement !

They will point to the fact that he got Fall and some Spring practices in an indoor facility with his coaches and the ability to use the batting cages on certain days and typically there's a clause in the player agreement that playing time is not guaranteed. Unfortunately the chances of getting money back are slim and none. Expensive lesson that we ALL should learn from. Time to focus on moving on while still early in the Summer season.

@fly996 posted:

They will point to the fact that he got Fall and some Spring practices in an indoor facility with his coaches and the ability to use the batting cages on certain days and typically there's a clause in the player agreement that playing time is not guaranteed. Unfortunately the chances of getting money back are slim and none. Expensive lesson that we ALL should learn from. Time to focus on moving on while still early in the Summer season.

If I am understanding correctly, she paid the organization that son was with prior.

If that be the case she should be reimbursed for the money given to the coaches for the 7 tournaments and weekly games.

To answer, yes we already paid in full for the 7 tourneys and league games. So far he has not played in any, so I will try to get even a small amount back, but like many of you said I am assuming chances are slim.

Thank you all for your advice, this is my oldest child and only son, so I appreciate the first-hand knowledge you could share with me. I will let you know how it all pans out.

@Jen234 posted:

To answer, yes we already paid in full for the 7 tourneys and league games. So far he has not played in any, so I will try to get even a small amount back, but like many of you said I am assuming chances are slim.

Thank you all for your advice, this is my oldest child and only son, so I appreciate the first-hand knowledge you could share with me. I will let you know how it all pans out.

No problem giving you advice. Let us know what happens, dont be afraid to confront these guys that took your money.

I've seen this happen, the worst was actually a non-dad coach (young guy trying to be tough, or toughen up the players or something). Families quit because of it, I don't remember whether they got any money back.  I agree that the organization should be clear to its coaches up front about how they should play players, and how to communicate that to the families, but in our 5 years, almost no coach ever did this.  Certainly there was never anything in the contract about playing time.

It's good that the travel organization head specifically told you to contact him if this happens; you should definitely do that, so you can make a decision quickly. Sometimes they don't pay attention to what their coaches are doing until the season is advanced, unless a parent complains, especially if it's a large organization.

Did your son enjoy the winter practices and the team, before this weekend?

Player talking to the coach first is always the advice for high school where, as cabbagedad noted, the best play.  This is something different, it's as much about the time and money to travel, hotels, etc. as it is about the team fees and playing time.  That is your business, not your son's.

Been there, had the conversation with jerk, ex-pro travel ball guys chasing plastic trophies and past glory. Pulled our son - best decision, and no regrets. So many are just cashing a check.

@Jen234 I think you've figured out what you need to do.  A little advice on how to proceed with that....

Don't meet or correspond with the program director until you've calmed down a bit.  These conversations do not need to be the heated "you slighted my kid" but rather "you offered a sale of services and we are not receiving what was advertised" conversations. It's a business and even though it's your kid, it's a business deal. You likely won't see your money back but you may be able to negotiate. Obviously, first try for a refund, show good faith and ask for a partial based on services/events you have paid for and have not received yet, something reasonable, good faith offer.  I know it's hard to monetize your kid's losses.  The other option would be to have your son be allowed to train there, I'm guessing there are private lessons at the facility? get private hitting lessons in lieu of practices etc. (I personally had success with this when my son first started playing TB at 11, we picked a team based out of a great facility not realizing there wasn't a full team and the field practice we had participated in was a 11/12 combined practice. It was a disaster, you can't play games, much less tournaments without a full team. We negotiated team fees be transferred to private lessons/cage access and offered to guest play with the incomplete team as long as his new team didn't have a tournament that weekend.  It actually worked out great as we moved to a team we really liked but didn't have a facility so were out of luck when weather hit).  Some of these baseball guys are just trying to keep a business afloat, they want to make it right but also need your money in their coffers.

It is likely the program director/owner likely has no idea what's going on at your team level and will apologize and offer to make it right.  Unless he replaces the shortstop-dad coach, it won't happen.  And if he does his core 9 will likely leave...

JEN234

can you discuss the situation with the parents of the 5 players who did not play?

There is NO reason that a team cannot compete with the 16 players participating.

The Coaches are committed to a program that does NOT have a plan, except to collect your $$$.

Send a letter to the Head Coach [copy to your attorney] demanding your $$ returned as TPM suggested. The Coaches need an education.

Are you near the King of Prussia, PA.?

Bob

Of course wasting money stinks, but if he is serious about baseball I would be more worried right now about wasting time.  Playing local rec league while really focusing on high quality instruction and physical training could put him ahead of the game by the Fall. 

I am sorry to hear, I agree you should get the other parents of the players who did not play and face the org together. Did your old travel org recommended the current one? If not, why did they not help you find a team?

2022NYC unfortunately this organization was recommended by his 14u organization. But we now notice they grew a lot this last year, new facility, absorbed a number of new teams from local orgs., went from one 15u team to three..

I spoke to my rec league commissioner friend and he has room for my son on the 15u/16u team with his 3 friends. Registration closes tonight, so I just registered him. I think my son was holding onto hope that he would get some playing time with this travel team, but if we are being realistic I don’t see it happening. I want to see him enjoy the game and I know he will on this team and my friend is an amazing coach.

Scheduled a call with the head of the org and his travel ball coach for tomorrow AM and we will see what comes of it. Like many of you said, probably nothing, and I am slowly accepting that it’s just an expensive lesson we will not make in August when tryouts for next summer come around!

Thanks again.

This thread is an example of how important it is to observe teams in competition and ask the right questions before committing.

I would expect academy teams through 15u to treat paying customers equally. At 16u and 17u where it becomes all about getting to college ball I would expect play to be somewhat equal since the talent should be somewhat equal.

Its usually the dad coached teams through age fifteen it’s important to observe before committing. It’s not unusual on these teams to have their starting players, use the rest of the roster for money and churn the bench every year.

I ran a dad coached team through 16u when the kids were fifteen. But the good sign was even though my son became a high school shortstop I played another kid who became a high school shortstop at short. He was a little better defensively than my son.

While the better players played in the semi and finals overall everyone played about the same amount over the course of the tournament.

You mentioned three 15u teams. Can he join one of the other teams if they have playing time for him?

As others have said, if you pay you play.

So what was the end result?

TMP it’s not fully resolved yet but we are getting there.

I signed him up for the rec team Monday. Tuesday AM my husband sent a nicely worded email that I’m not capable of (haha) to the head of the organization and to the coach to discuss his concerns. He also told them my son would not be going to their Tuesday night league game.

The rec team had a game Tuesday evening my son went to instead. I was pleasantly surprised by the talent on the team I think he will be very happy there. The fact that he’s playing at 14 against kids as old as 18 will be a good challenge. He played most of the game. Made the game ending double play by making a tough catch in left and throwing the kid out at first who took off..Got 2 RBIs on a shot down the third base line. He was happy. It was good.

The coach of the travel team sent my husband a one line email Wednesday AM, My husband is scheduled to talk to him this morning. The head of the organization STILL has not answered my husbands email requesting a conversation. It has been 2 days since the email was sent.

I spoke to other parents of the travel team bench sitters and was told for Tuesday nights league game, they pitched one boy two innings and the other bench boys all played 1-2 innings each. I am confident I made the right decision.

My husband has at his disposal every email ever sent about playing time, kids not being buried on the bench, development being more important than winning, practice and games being nearby (whereas now our home field is the high school when the 9 core players play, 35 min away). We will already save the $500 from the hotel room in Michigan I can cancel, but I’m hoping to see a third of the money back, as I realize he got months of indoor practices, at least that will more than cover the rec league fees and the uniforms he will never wear.

I will report back after he speaks to the coach. Thanks for asking.

And TerribleBPthrower, To answer your question, I found out, of the other two 15u teams, one also came almost entirely from another organization and they are doing the same bench sitting to the “extras.”
The remaining 15u already has 17 kids..

Thanks, I was wondering. I think you made a good decision if he is happy.

TPM

First and most importantly your son is happy playing on the rec team. But I’m not sure how relevant it is he’s playing against 18yo rec players.

I once had a very good 14u travel team. The 16-19yo Legion team wouldn’t play us. I believe we would have beat them. From one end of the roster to the other my team had more pitchers hitting 80.