First of all, do ask for the specifics on the MLB scholarship plan. That's very important. Yes, the team will put money in for you, but sometimes the money is negotiated and given to player. It's usually spent by the time you are done with baseball. You only have two years after you leave baseball to start your education.

Most players do not take advantage of the plan while playing. If they do, it can be done online, and taken a few credits at a time.
However, if you are indecisive about what to do, in my opinion, no internet course ever replaces the full college experience.

Some college students come out of college with debt, some do not. This is something to be discussed with your parents. And, you have to think about the possibility of whether or not at 25,26,27 after not going on to the show, you are ready to begin your college education.
Does anyone know if the new MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement will limit bonuses to draft signees? I know this issue was brought up, but I'm not sure if it is in the final deal or not.

I have heard that established players, who've had to work their way to the top, often resent the large bonuses given to unproven draftees. Since no one at the bargaining table represents potential future draftees, the potential for a capping agreement was certainly there.

Such a cap would sure make it a lot easier to decide to go to college first!
quote:
Some college students come out of college with debt, some do not.


Do some research. It's more than "SOME". A player that elects to sign doesn't have to take college credits on line. There are other options. You can take classes in a fall semester. You can also take classes at a community college. You can also take classes at a university that offers a quarter system and take classes in the winter quarter.

It's a rule (starting within 2 years) to encourage the person to start. There are other options. You can write a letter and ask for an extension. That 2 year rule is not cut in stone as an ONLY.

NO school money is ever payed to the player. Its NOT NEGOTIABLE. What you can do is forgo the college money and take it as part of the bonus. But that would be an increase in the bonus and no college scholarship is attached unless you as the familt/ player invest that portion and ear mark it for school when you do decide to attend.

The college experience is good, sure. But how many of you and how many of your children will pay for a long long time to pay that debt for that experience off. Be honest I'll bet there are college graduates from the 80's here that are still paying for college.
quote:
The college experience is good, sure. But how many of you and how many of your children will pay for a long long time to pay that debt for that experience off. Be honest I'll bet there are college graduates from the 80's here that are still paying for college.
wow, better stick to hitting tips

ya WANT to take the loong road in paying off 2% or 3% loans - - (that's 10th grade economics)
tho - they could be whittled down pretty quick grossing 5-6K per month entry salary

gee, I wonder how regular students (non-athletes) do it Confused


what was that pay during the 4+ months/yr that minor leaguers "work"??
after room & board of course - - $500/mo?



.
quote:
they could be whittled down pretty quick grossing 5-6K per month entry salary


There are many many people with college degree's who do not and will not ever approach this figure.

Turning your back on a free college education to enjoy the experience. You should have to pay 15 %.
quote:
There are many many people with college degree's who do not and will not ever approach this figure.
estimate for me the % of college people who'll never approach $70k/yr,
then compare it with the % of minor league players who'll never approach $70k/yr

are you saying a pro player who never uses his "college plan" should be penalized 15% on his salary??
that'd make his take home $425/mo x 5 months= $2500/yr instead of $3000/yr
Mom's basement can be pretty cold & damp in the off season


wow, you can sell that deal & still look in the mirror?

.
estimate for me the number of people (regular students) with a college degree who make over a million dollars a year,

then compare the number of pro athlete's who do

a college degree is no guarantee. Take the experience and enjoy it if thats what you want to do. There are many many (larger % than you wanta believe) students who are over 100 thousand in debt when they graduate. Take the pro contract if you want as well.

Its a personal choice. There are risk in most everything you do in life. What profession pays you top dollar for being unproven with a college degree. NONE, but yet you wanta be set for life to get a chance at chasing a dream.

and you can't sell that?
An alternative to taking the college scholarhip plan would be to request the equivalent dollars in cash. This might be an alternative since there ARE many time contraints attached to the plan and the value may lapse.
Is that better?

You make it seem like the only way one aquires debt is by going to college. No minor league player making minimum ever aquired debt? How many have come out with debt and not been able to go to school because OF debt and needs to work to pay it off. Yeah he can go to school for free while working, but it will take years!

Can you provide statistics on how many minor league players go to school in their off time (if they get it)? And can you provide statistics with how much they make when they come out (and what they do). NOT former major league players who had money in their pocket and could afford (in more ways than one)to go to school, but former minor league players.
sbuster, I'll assume you have no answer to the previous questions, since you answered them with more questions - - which I'll be happy to answer
quote:
estimate for me the number of people (regular students) with a college degree who make over a million dollars a year,
maybe 1 or 2 tops -

how many strictly average players are on MLB rosters - - zip 0 ... only the very best elite are

you see a regular (or average) student will do ok, but the very best elite students, whether because of brains, ingenuity, or just plain drive & hard work can make a million look like chump change ...
& there are a helluva lot more of them than 40 x 30 teams.
(some of which make minimum/much less than a million)

the logic of your view is bait & switch and/or comparing unlike products


.
if a guy signed to a minor league contract is THAT elite how can you justify letting him bring home $500/month after taxes room & board ... how much is left after car insurance & gas?? if he IS elite, why is he not viewed that way by his employer?

I'm sure you have the numbers & have laid it out for many a young man ... so feel free


.
Our son has been in pro ball long enough to see many of his buddies hang up the cleats and move in new directions. One is now coaching at the college level and working on his Masters, another is going into law enforcement, another is selling pharmacuticals, another is going into the ministry.

I honestly can't think of anyone he's played with who is not pursuing some kind of professional career since leaving the sport. Many eventually complete their degrees with or without the help of the MLB plan.

We even know of several major leaguers who have set up second career opportunities in preparation for their future after ball. One has his real estate license, another owns several batting facilities, and another owns a restuarant.

I think the guys that leave the minors and never complete their degree and/or enter a professional field probably wouldn't have done so even if they hadn't played baseball. It's all a matter of goals and work ethic.
Txmom,
Good post.
I think that times have changed. More and more players are getting better advice on finding careers after baseball. Being encouraged to begin college while still playing baseball. College drafted players encouraged to return to their schools to finish their degrees as quickly as possible.

I think that you will agree, though baseball is life to many, many are finding out there is life after baseball. Smile

However, a drafted player should never be sold on signing just because MLB has a scholarship program. Or he should not be encouraged to sign just because his college experience will aquire debt. JMO.
I agree that the MLB college plan shouldn't be the deciding factor when signing, but it can be part of the package for consideration.

We wanted the plan included in our son's contract to serve as an incentive down the road. We negotiated for enough to cover 3 full semesters including room and board, which would allow him to complete his degree. Some of the money has already been used by MLB for his playing incentives which come out of the college fund and tuition costs have gone up, but there's still a chunk of money waiting for him if he ever wants to use it.

With that being said, if he chooses to do something else with his life when the time comes, it will be his choice to make.
So that is a good question, to Sign or College?

My brother who is a senior this year has signed to play for Nebraska already last fall and now there are MLB scouts coming to all his games wanting to know how much it would take to get him to sign. This is a very odd situation because our family doesnt have the experience in this to know what is the best way to go. Hes been told he could be a 5th or 6th round pick. So just when we thought things were getting easier after signing with Nebraska last year, things are getting more complicated and stressfull with this MLB draft stuff.

Any recommendations would be great.

Thanks
Nate,
If your brother wants to play pro ball, sign, the money should be secondary to the decision.
If your brother wants to go to college, then don't sign and be honest with the scouts.
It's pretty early for any good scout to tell a player what round he may be drafted, the draft is not until June. And the scout does not draft the player, his organization does.
Just tell him to play his best, be honest and follow his heart, and all good things will fall into place.
I agree with what TPM posted,
I know of several players who said a scout told them they would be drafted in the 3rd to 5th rd. They wanted to go pro but they were never drafted.
What I think happens is a scout tells a player we see you as a 3rd to 5th round talent.
quote:
Originally posted by njbb:
I agree with what TPM posted,
I know of several players who said a scout told them they would be drafted in the 3rd to 5th rd. They wanted to go pro but they were never drafted.
What I think happens is a scout tells a player we see you as a 3rd to 5th round talent.


The scout may see you in that round, not necessarily his boss. Wink
This is something that really bothers me. Scouts and advisors coming to kids homes and telling them they see them going in such and such round is wrong. Am I wrong to assume that scouts have NO idea until draft day (after players name is called) what exactly will happen?

Why don't they just say, I see you as a first day pick?

My son has been through the process once, now again. NO scout has ever told him directly where he sees him in the draft. And, IMO, it's wrong for an advisor at this time of year, to give his impression to the player of where the player he wants to represent later on will fall in the draft.

You tell a prospect he looks like a 3rd-5th draft pick and then he gets drafted in the 14th round, player is gonna be pretty upset if he beleives what he was told.

I may be wrong but that's just the way I see it, NO ONE can tell anyone where they are going to fall in the draft, especially in March.
It is a very complex decision for some, and extremely simple for others (to go pro or college). I don't think it's a problem to guess a round a player may go in, but the player and parents need to know that it is merely a guess and neither the scout nor advisor really knows.

Some would want to know if they are "projected" to be in the upper rounds or lower to help in their decision for college or pros. The guessing has to take place to do this. Most parents and players have no ability to guess, therefore the advisor and possibly scout feedback can come into play.

I cannot imagine a player projected in the first three rounds being surprised by the selection. I can't also imagine the major league team not knowing there is a good chance of signing them. This would just be too much risk on the club.

It does get harder rounds 4 - 10 where there is still pretty good money. However, little is set in stone. I heard of a 35th rounder being offered $400,000 last draft to not play in college.

The player would be doing well to continue with plans to go to college and if drafted can decide if pro ball is preffered over college. Money is just one consideration.

In summary, I think it is very appropriate for an advisor to assess the player and communicate a guess on the draft round. However, the player and parents should be told and aware the advisor and even scouts have no real control over the draft process.
The players I mentioned were talking to part time scouts and when some players are given a projection of their level of talent, they take that to mean they are going to be drafted in that round
I think the higher the round the better the information, you would be talking with Area Supervisors,Cross checkers, Scouting dirctors etc. not a part time scout
Don't listen to the NONSENSE on this board about 35th round players being offered $350-400,000. While a 1st round talent who has fallen because an organization believed he was not signable might be offered a substantial sum...that is a HUGELY RARE EXCEPTION and not the rule.

Typical for the 35th round...No bonus; plane ticket; and, $1150.00 per month for 3 months. You pay for everything else.

99% of what you hear about bonuses in later rounds, after the 10th round, is BS.

Most draft choices are out of baseball within 3 years.
After reading the subsequent posts, I need to clarify for those not familiar with the draft process. The player offered money in the 35th would have had to have MLB approval to get it. It never got that far. Secondly, the player is a football/baseball player that is an incredible athlete at a front-line program. Thirdly, the posters are correct, usually the claim of a lot of money out of slot is "BS." Lastly, I never verified the truth of the offer -- it was told to me by his father.

However, I'm sticking by my position that a top prospect will and should have his round predicted. The problem is there are 90 people taken in the first three rounds (not include sandwich rounds) and maybe 900 who expect to be.

If you look at the Baseball America comments by round, a player with more comments tends to be drafted higher than those who are not in the database or who have few notes. Last two drafts the first three rounds had significant notes compared to subsequent, lower rounds. I'm saying this, because if you think your player is a first three round pick and Baseball America doesn't know who they are -- it is unlikely.
quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I may be wrong but that's just the way I see it, NO ONE can tell anyone where they are going to fall in the draft, especially in March.


This is mostly true.

Except for maybe the first 10 picks of the draft, everything else is extremely variable. It all depends on who is available in what round.

That means that a guy could be moved up or slip down depending on what team is looking at him. One team's upper rounder is another team's lower rounder.

About the best that you can honestly tell someone is whether they are an upper rounder or a lower rounder.
quote:
Originally posted by njbb:
I think the higher the round the better the information, you would be talking with Area Supervisors,Cross checkers, Scouting dirctors etc. not a part time scout


This is correct.

Drafting involves a lot of negotiation, with each cross checker having his set of favorites and everyone weighing in on each other's list. The Scouting Director and General Manager then trump everyone else.

Nobody below the level of area supervisor or cross checker is going to have much of a clue about how things are going to fall out on draft day, and they can only have a sense of the order. Even the SD or GM can't say for sure since things change depending on who picks who and when.
If one has good grades there options are great-but think about this, lets say you have a legit shot in terms of being drafted and brought into the minors, think of this, you could have the option of playing minor league ball and maybe, maybe playing pros, or you could take the college route, play for a great college team, hopefully having strong academics, if youre good enough earning a cheap education, maybe being drafted later, and even if you're not drafted later you still can say I played college baseball at the D1 level for a great team, also having a degree in your hand (keep in mind this 1 specific example), but just play these different scenarios in your head
You can have both if you play your cards right.My son is going through the samething.We are very pro education and he has a scholarship to a very good baseball school.He also may get a very good offer to play in the minors.What we are being told is we can have his education provided on the backside.The catch is you have to use it within so many years & most kids don't.So you can have your cake and eat it too.
quote:
What we are being told is we can have his education provided on the backside.The catch is you have to use it within so many years & most kids don't.So you can have your cake and eat it too.


MICSTER,
Welcome to the HSBBW.
Sounds like your son is one terrific player. I sure won't be the first on this site hoping and wishing for the very best for him, and you, over the next few months leading up to June and possibly the period from June to 8/15/11.
You may well know this.
The educational costs, even if they are never paid, are often included in the teams values for the bonus that gets paid. So, even a $500,000 bonus might not be that after taxes if some or a lot of it might be for the MLB scholarship allocation.
Additionally, the teams are not usually saying they will pay the education. I believe the MLB education plan needs to start being used within 2 years of the end of MLB baseball.
Whenever that occurs, tuition and college costs are likely to be much higher than they are now.
The MLB education can be negotiated. Don't be surprised to see the team starting any offers with the education to be paid stated in current dollars, not future tuition, and you might also see it limited to tuition, with room/board/books and all the incidentals not being paid.
The amount allocated for education can be substantial, but it might not frost a big cake, if you get my drift. Wink
But you can also attempt to negotiate more frosting. When you are working with a very good baseball scholarship at a school that wants you and your son wants them, the worst MLB can say is no. If MLB wants the player enough, they will let you and your son know about the frosting.
quote:
Originally posted by MICSTER:
My biggest fear is not knowing what you can & can not say to these advisors & scouts so you don't violate NCAA rules.I hear a lot of horror stories.Does anyone have any advise on that.


You can say whatever you like, you just can't have a professional agent say it for you. Smile

Just to reinterate what infielddad has said, in 2007 my son was awarded by his drafting team, enough dollars in the MLB scholarship fund for 32 credit hours (no living expenses) to finish his degree. The tuition has since increased about 10K. Plus, due to the mlb incentive bonus plan he has LOST money in his account. This means that each time he moved up a level and remained for 90 days or more he lost money in his scholarship fund.
Fortunetly he has taken money from his bonus and put away enough for him to finish at the school he attended without having to work while going to class.
Negotiating for anything will be much easier if they want you badly enough, and that would probably mean being an early pick.
While I beleive that this is a personal decision, remember who will benefit by giving you certain information.
Keep in mind that milb salary is not enough to put away and save for a rainy day, and yes it is going to be VERY difficult to begin school after 5-6 years of being out of it and most likely, unless there was a significant signing bonus, it won't be enough to cover 4-5 years of tuition room and board (as infielddad told you) without working to subsidize.
The MLB Scholarship program can be quite confusing.

Here is link to an overview of the MLB Scholarship Program that I found helpful when our son went through this a few years ago. I believe the program hasn't change however I could be mistaken. If nothing else... it should provide answers to many questions.

MLB Scholarship Program

While in my son's case the scholarship program was kept completely separate from his signing bonus, it's interesting to hear that some clubs include that as part of the signing bonus... not sure how that would work?


Good luck!
Hi!
Our son retired from MLB last year and has been using his scholarship money to return to school. His team provided 3 semesters for up to $5000 each semester in his original contract, which was what he needed to complete his degree back in 2002. Half of that was given to him in bonuses as he advanced through the minors. He ended up with 3 semesters for up to $2500 each in his account when he retired. Thankfully, he invested a significant amount of his signing bonus and still has those funds available for living expenses, mortgage, etc. as he pursues his new career.

My advise would be to negotiate a minimal amount in the scholarship fund with a higher bonus. Use a portion of the bonus to set up an accessible college investment account for future needs. I have a feeling that our son's club would not have given him less scholarship money for more bonus, but its worth asking about.
What a fantastic thread.

I just went throught the latest version of baseball america's transactions list.

I focused on who got released. A few were striking.

a 2009 high PG ranked hs C who was drafted in a round that was not unreasonable to sign. Got 60 AB a for 2009 and about the same for 2010. His BA was far better than Steve Baron's who was drafted the same year who was a early round pick and highly paid.

Released none-the-less.

I think the question to ask a scout is not how much money am I going to get but "am I the 200 AB a season guy or am I the 60 AB a season guy"
playfair keep in mind that releases are also due to business decisions only.

For example, if there are many good catchers in front of that player, I only feel it fair for a release, that allows the player to seek other options. Also keep in mind that the guy they gave more money to is usually going to get more chances to fail.
Also keep in mind that the BA or ERA may have nothing to do with the release.
JMO.
tpm, you are absolutely correct. it was just a striking observation to me.

the kid that was released was very highly touted in his hs class by pg. i was so surprised. i have no idea how much the club invested or where he was at on the depth chart.

i should look into that. and i have no idea of his defense skill level (which should really matter for the position)

I was just recently looking closely at the kind of chances and opportunities the rounds 15-30 guys get vs. the rounds 4-14 guys.
Just a thought but it is unusual for a team to release a player so soon. There may be circumstances you aren't aware of. I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing.

I don't think that many realize that just like college, a pro team can be a bad fit for the player. That is why I personally feel that unless the HS player gets a very nice chunk of change he should not give up his college eligibility. Those 15 and up round players have an opportunity to mature and even become better picks.

Just an observation.

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