Sleep?

It appears your son is also a serious student. He’s going to have to adjust to getting eight hours of sleep maybe one night per week. My kids slept late on Sunday mornings in the off-season. When my kids came home for Thanksgiving and Christmas they slept a lot. 

Sleep is not underrated.  I'd have him give up the morning shift on weekends, but that is just me.

it is difficult enough achieving one's potential as an athlete without also attempting to do it without optimal sleep & nutrition.

Iowamom23 posted:

And if ti's bad now in high school, how bad will it be in college and how do you overcome that? Or can you???

 

It won't be better in college. At the JuCo and D2 university, our son was lucky to get 6 hours of sleep per night.  Typical weekday, lifting at 6 am, then classes beginning at 8 or 9 am until about 1 or 2 pm.  Then practice from 3 pm to 6 pm.   Then it was dinner, then it was off to study until 10 pm or so.  If there is a mid-week home game, he had to be at the field by 1-2 pm, game at 4-5 pm and if lucky back to the dorm by 8-9 pm.  If an away game he would have to leave earlier and they would get back much later.   Weekends found my son at the field from 8 am for a DH starting at noon.  After cleanup, it might be 8 pm when they finished cleaning up for a home game.  Away weekends had them leaving Friday evening or early Saturday morning and not arriving back at the college late Sunday evening.  Son actually liked away games since they didn't have to clean up and he could actually get some study time or sleep in on the bus or at the hotel.

Mine loves chickfila and zaxby's chicken...is it the best, nope, but it's better than a grease filled burger and fries.  He also wants about 2 gallons of chocolate milk a week...so I'm hoping his bones are at least healthy.  

Sleep is also not good. He has ADHD and can't shut his brain off, even if he tried.  The Dr. prescribed something called Clonidine, it's a non narcotic that lowers his blood pressure and makes his brain shut off and he gets sleepy.  Our agreement is if he isn't asleep by 10pm he takes one....but he doesn't like how groggy he feels in the morning, it's the only side affect I can see.

Iowamom23 posted:

Last night I was berating my 2018 for his 10th unexecused tardy from his second hour class. He hasn't to be at school before 9 a.m. for two years. I told him if he was tired, he needed to get more sleep and he literally stopped cold and looked at me.

"Mom, I don't remember the last time I wasn't tired," he said seriously.

Kid is taking all AP/college credit classes in HS with a 3.7 GPA, baseball, and works a a 6:30 a.m. shift at the Y on the weekends. I feel like he's squeezing in pretty much everything that fits — allowing about half an hour for watching the Yankees with his dad, and maybe an hour for dinner with me and his grandfather twice a week.

I feel like proper meals and good sleep habits are the two things he's most lacking in his athletic life. How much does your athlete sleep, is it enough, and if so, how do you make that happen???

And if ti's bad now in high school, how bad will it be in college and how do you overcome that? Or can you???

 

Can he switch shifts at the Y? 6:30am on the weekends is brutal with everything else that he has going on.

It does not get better in college, especially if he's on a high academic path.   At times I'll be texting with mine at 11 or 12 at night and he'll be on his way to a study group or project meeting with other students.  All the while I know he has early morning lift or practice the next day.  Factor in late returns to school from road trips, sometimes for mid-week games, and their attempt at a social life and sleep becomes a precious commodity.  Mine knows enough to know he needs it, just doesn't happen.

hshuler posted:

Iowamom23 posted:

Last night I was berating my 2018 for his 10th unexecused tardy from his second hour class. He hasn't to be at school before 9 a.m. for two years. I told him if he was tired, he needed to get more sleep and he literally stopped cold and looked at me.

"Mom, I don't remember the last time I wasn't tired," he said seriously.

Kid is taking all AP/college credit classes in HS with a 3.7 GPA, baseball, and works a a 6:30 a.m. shift at the Y on the weekends. I feel like he's squeezing in pretty much everything that fits — allowing about half an hour for watching the Yankees with his dad, and maybe an hour for dinner with me and his grandfather twice a week.

I feel like proper meals and good sleep habits are the two things he's most lacking in his athletic life. How much does your athlete sleep, is it enough, and if so, how do you make that happen???

And if ti's bad now in high school, how bad will it be in college and how do you overcome that? Or can you???

 

Can he switch shifts at the Y? 6:30am on the weekends is brutal with everything else that he has going on.

 

Probably after spring season. He has games at noon and 2, so he's done working by 10 a.m., which works with everything else. He hates asking me for spending money, which is nice, but I think it is going to have to go soon.

Son is currently participating in a study on sleep at Clemson. Wears a wristband with a accelerometer like a Garmin Vivofit and is supposed to get 8 hours of sleep per night. Players are accountable as this is reviewed weekly.

Here's an article on the technology and usage in college sports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...able-technology.html

You're probably aware of this, but there's a biological component that helps explain why most adolescents don't fall asleep before 11pm or later. 

http://www.neurologytimes.com/...age-circadian-rhythm

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Son is currently participating in a study on sleep at Clemson. Wears a wristband with a accelerometer like a Garmin Vivofit and is supposed to get 8 hours of sleep per night. Players are accountable as this is reviewed weekly.

Here's an article on the technology and usage in college sports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...able-technology.html

 

Sleep can’t be accurately measured from the wrist. Accurate readings require reading brain waves.

I have a Fitbit. I was feeling fatigued after I started wearing it. It was all psychological. I believed the nightly results. When I stopped wearing it I returned to waking up refreshed. 

Well I guess it’s a waste of time, Clemson need to get those boys EEG Meditation Headsets!

RJM posted:

It appears your son is also a serious student. He’s going to have to adjust to getting eight hours of sleep maybe one night per week. My kids slept late on Sunday mornings in the off-season. When my kids came home for Thanksgiving and Christmas they slept a lot. 

This

When the kid came home for Xmas he slept almost 24/7 for the first week or so.

RJM posted:

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Son is currently participating in a study on sleep at Clemson. Wears a wristband with a accelerometer like a Garmin Vivofit and is supposed to get 8 hours of sleep per night. Players are accountable as this is reviewed weekly.

Here's an article on the technology and usage in college sports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...able-technology.html

 

Sleep can’t be accurately measured from the wrist. Accurate readings require reading brain waves.

I have a Fitbit. I was feeling fatigued after I started wearing it. It was all psychological. I believed the nightly results. When I stopped wearing it I returned to waking up refreshed. 

Agreed. It's a gimmick to trick them into thinking they are being monitored and complying with the sleep mandate.

My son's college volleyball team is very, very, very good. There was an article about this program they adapted and one of the components was eight hours of sleep every night. When I told my son this he laughed. "That's a joke. Those girls are crazy" he said. "They are the biggest partiers on campus".

Well, my son sleeps and complies with the program. Then again he’s not out drinking and screwing around. I guess he’s naive.

I ran track in college. I learned to fall asleep in the bleachers of a track meet with all the commotion going on. Folks yelling, PA announcers, starters gun, etc. I also learned how to wake to fully awake pretty quickly. To this day my wife is amazed at my ability to fall asleep with pretty much anything going on around me. She’s even more astonished with my ability to instantly wake up and be 100% alert. 

9and7dad posted:

especially if he's on a high academic path.

Just as a note — thanks to you and RJM. I don't usually think of son as a serious student or on a high academic path. I think of him as the kid who can't get up to get to French by 9 a.m. 

Thanks for adjusting my perspective. I don't probably appreciate all of his good quantities as I should.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Well, my son sleeps and complies with the program. Then again he’s not out drinking and screwing around. I guess he’s naive.

Now that is a true sacrifice there. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

Mine loves chickfila and zaxby's chicken...is it the best, nope, but it's better than a grease filled burger and fries.  He also wants about 2 gallons of chocolate milk a week...so I'm hoping his bones are at least healthy.  

I think your son and my nephew are soulmates, those are his favorite things as well.

IowaMom, your son seems to be a very responsible young man who is managing is schedule pretty well overall. The exhaustion is likely due to his busy schedule, but it might not hurt to get it checked out at the doctor IF you think it could be something more than that. My friend's son found out he had mono while playing college ball last year, and they warned her it could have turned serious. 

Assuming it's normal teen exhaustion, is he allowed to keep his phone at night? Maybe take all electronics away at a certain time at night. I know some people might think that's overparenting, but he's late to school which indicates his lack of sleep is interfering with his life/education. 

You could pull the teenage nuclear bomb option and do what my dad did to my sister when she was consistently tardy between classes at school. She told him there was no way she could get from class to class in the time allowed. So he went to school with her! He sat in her first few classes and walked with her to the next class. It was amazing how she was able to be on time after that. You could drive son to school, and walk him into the building to make sure he gets the message. lol Sadly, Dad's parenting stunt had no long term affect on my sister's tardiness since she's late everywhere she goes to this day. 

9 am French class! I would be late too!

Iowamom23 posted:

9and7dad posted:

especially if he's on a high academic path.

Just as a note — thanks to you and RJM. I don't usually think of son as a serious student or on a high academic path. I think of him as the kid who can't get up to get to French by 9 a.m. 

Thanks for adjusting my perspective. I don't probably appreciate all of his good quantities as I should.

IowaMom23, your son is a rock star!  I can't wait to see him play in the B1G next year!  

Our HS moved start time to 8:30 am from 7:50 because of the research that others here have referenced.  Nevertheless, my son still wakes at 6:30 after being up studying until 11 or midnight after games, workouts, practice, etc. because he's slow in the morning and likes to get to school early to "be prepared" (his words, not mine).  When he goes a couple of weeks without being able to get that extra sleep on the weekends I notice he's crankier, more forgetful, less alert and focused and even somewhat depressed (although after this winter and spring, who wouldn't be)?  There's so much pressure on them with academics and baseball (not to mention if they work or have other responsibilities like your son).  Sometimes I look at my son and how he's managing it as well as he does and I'm amazed.    

It is incredible what today's college student athletes go through to play baseball.  Sleep was a MAJOR concern of mine when my son decided he wanted to pursue engineering and play college baseball at any level.  His eventual path was tolerable for him, and a major reason he selected a high academic D1 with less practices, less travel, and less games that played a competitive schedule.  It was a great fit for him.

Sleep was so underrated was my son's conclusion after playing D1 baseball and studying engineering for 4 years.   Everytime we saw him or talked to him on the phone he was tired, but never complained.   He had zero free time, none.  My collegiate athletic experience 35+ years ago was vastly different.  I played D2 tennis and studied business.   I had all kinds of free time for shenanigans, studying,  and I slept very well.   It is vastly different today.

Iowamom23 posted:

Last night I was berating my 2018 for his 10th unexecused tardy from his second hour class. He hasn't to be at school before 9 a.m. for two years. I told him if he was tired, he needed to get more sleep and he literally stopped cold and looked at me.

"Mom, I don't remember the last time I wasn't tired," he said seriously.

Kid is taking all AP/college credit classes in HS with a 3.7 GPA, baseball, and works a a 6:30 a.m. shift at the Y on the weekends. I feel like he's squeezing in pretty much everything that fits — allowing about half an hour for watching the Yankees with his dad, and maybe an hour for dinner with me and his grandfather twice a week.

I feel like proper meals and good sleep habits are the two things he's most lacking in his athletic life. How much does your athlete sleep, is it enough, and if so, how do you make that happen???

And if ti's bad now in high school, how bad will it be in college and how do you overcome that? Or can you???

 

Sleep helps a kid stay healthy also.  My boy gets 6 hours or a bit less weeknights,  an extra hour or two on Sat / Sun.  I joke that if he got 8-9 per night he would be an inch taller.  Your boy's 6:30 am shift on the weekends sounds rough.

He won't have you to help him in college.  Good chance he rises to the occasion.

Sleep?!?!?

My youngest son's college team finished their weekend series late on Sunday and arrived back to campus after a 10 hour bus ride from Arkansas at 3am Monday morning.  Classes started at 8am and the Coach made it clear everyone needed to be at class Monday morning.  The team then started playoffs yesterday (Thursday).  So they left campus at 4:15pm for a 6+ hour bus ride to Memphis.  They'll miss Thurs and Fri classes and will arrive back to school sometime this weekend. 

Lack of sleep, missing classes, etc.  College baseball is a very different world than HS ball.  It's a full time job where you have to travel on top of taking full time studies.  Social life?  Very little.  Sleep?  Very little.

Study of the importance of sleep & nutrition are part of the next wave of analytics.  I guarantee you that teams will increasingly look for a competitive edge with quality sleep, similar to Villanova's hitting lab or Vanderbilt's pitching lab.

If my Kid was getting recruited by multiple Power Fives I would encourage him to look for a program that understood next level sleep & nutrition analytics.  Seriously.

In reality though, my Kid might be battling it out to be a backup 3B at a place like Coppin State, so we'll take what we can get!

3and2Fastball posted:

In reality though, my Kid might be battling it out to be a backup 3B at a place like Coppin State, so we'll take what we can get!

IMO, UW-Whitewater would beat Coppin State 4 out of 5 games. Just sayin'.

3and2Fastball posted:

Study of the importance of sleep & nutrition are part of the next wave of analytics.  I guarantee you that teams will increasingly look for a competitive edge with quality sleep, similar to Villanova's hitting lab or Vanderbilt's pitching lab.

If my Kid was getting recruited by multiple Power Fives I would encourage him to look for a program that understood next level sleep & nutrition analytics.  Seriously.

In reality though, my Kid might be battling it out to be a backup 3B at a place like Coppin State, so we'll take what we can get!

Coppin is 13-17 this year so far this year. They have a full roster. They've come a long way from 2-50 and sixteen players. 

Midwest Mom posted:

Iowamom23 posted:

9and7dad posted:

especially if he's on a high academic path.

Just as a note — thanks to you and RJM. I don't usually think of son as a serious student or on a high academic path. I think of him as the kid who can't get up to get to French by 9 a.m. 

Thanks for adjusting my perspective. I don't probably appreciate all of his good quantities as I should.

IowaMom23, your son is a rock star!  I can't wait to see him play in the B1G next year!  

Our HS moved start time to 8:30 am from 7:50 because of the research that others here have referenced.  Nevertheless, my son still wakes at 6:30 after being up studying until 11 or midnight after games, workouts, practice, etc. because he's slow in the morning and likes to get to school early to "be prepared" (his words, not mine).  When he goes a couple of weeks without being able to get that extra sleep on the weekends I notice he's crankier, more forgetful, less alert and focused and even somewhat depressed (although after this winter and spring, who wouldn't be)?  There's so much pressure on them with academics and baseball (not to mention if they work or have other responsibilities like your son).  Sometimes I look at my son and how he's managing it as well as he does and I'm amazed.    

Thanks. While it doesn't seem like there's a solution, it's good to know he's not the only one feeling tired. 

My son (16 YO) goes to bed a decent hour but just can't sleep...partly its due to how adolescents are wired.

We have had some success with liquid melatonin, available OTC.

So two points on this — first, prom is NOT a help. Second, I have heard from some friends that their kids won't obey curfews and so forth. I have learned the best cure for that is a 6:30 a.m. Y shift on Saturday or Sunday, which my son does; or a 5:45 a.m. shift on Monday through Friday, which my daughter has done during summers. They are both in bed before I am, and willingly!!!

Good night!

I second the melatonin. My son eats a melatonin gummie about 30-45 minutes before bed. When you have less hours to sleep, it help fall asleep sooner and gives a deaper sleep to help feel more rested. When he sleeps for six hours, he says it feels more like 8 or 9 hours when he wakes up. He wakes up ready to go, not groggy at all. May want to have him try it on a day he does not have anything to do the next mroning, to see if he has good results. It has not been habit forming. He uses it when he knows he does not have time for a full nights rest.