St. Louis vs. Milwaukee

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Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

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Given recent events, I'd say St. Louis (see LaRussa's totally inappropriate comments and behavior.) The only thing above that Morgan has done run off the mouth, and that was pretty minor.

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I didn't compare the two.

You're right. The previous statement was made by someone else I guess...

That statement was in response to a specific question, as I have already stated.

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Originally posted by Matt13:

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Originally posted by CoachB25:
Matt and what would that place be? To act without class> To disregard sportsmanship? To show up your opponents? To run off the mouth about opponents? I'm eager to hear where that place is.

Given recent events, I'd say St. Louis (see LaRussa's totally inappropriate comments and behavior.) The only thing above that Morgan has done run off the mouth, and that was pretty minor.

But the discussion wasn't about Tony, you made it though.

What Morgan has done is ok because you think Tony is a jerk? If he had just run his mouth off, that would not be so bad.

You are using excuses for his behavior, I don't buy it. Do you do that with your kids, I mean when they act in an unbecoming manner to provide excuses for them?

There's so many good guys in the game, go about their business and get no recognition, this guy does negative stuff to feed on I don't see that as being competitive do you?

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Originally posted by TPM:
But the discussion wasn't about Tony, you made it though.

That's because someone made a specific question.

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Originally posted by TPM:
What Morgan has done is ok because you think Tony is a jerk?

That's not what I said.

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Originally posted by TPM:
If he had just run his mouth off, that would not be so bad.

That's pretty much all he's done in Milwaukee.

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Originally posted by TPM:
You are using excuses for his behavior, I don't buy it.

Uh, no, I'm not. I'm saying that there are a lot of people who are attaching much more to Morgan's behavior than there really is.

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Originally posted by TPM:
There's so many good guys in the game, go about their business and get no recognition, this guy does negative stuff to feed on I don't see that as being competitive do you?

A. Most of what he does is not negative.
B. There is a spectrum of ways for players to bring out performance in themselves and their teammates. The mix of personalities with the Brewers is a good example--they draw upon each other's personality strengths.

A lot of what Morgan did before this season was not right. I think that being in this particular clubhouse has shaped him to channel his energy into more productive means, like Beast Mode, or the "T" sign, or what have you. If he was still in Washington, it wouldn't surprise me that he would still be doing what he did last year--but he's not. The problem is that people don't recognize that while the energy is still there, the motivation and presentation of it is not the same. That's why I mentioned bias. People had an opinion of him coming into this season, and only see what they think supports that opinion.

So it's ok now, he acts a little better because he's on a winning team?

It was ok to act like a jerk when the other teams he played with were not?

I just don't get what you are trying to say. Saying all he has done is run his mouth this year is ok? The way I see it, he doesn't even deserve to be in the game.

It's ok that we can agree to disagree. I don't like him, I don't like what he stands for, we should be discussing the guys that have played well AND kept their mouths shut.

I wouldn't even like him if he played for my fav team, ever.

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Originally posted by TPM:
I just don't get what you are trying to say.

You are correct.

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Originally posted by Matt13:

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Originally posted by TPM:
I just don't get what you are trying to say.

You are correct.

You are saying that is ok to run your mouth off, that is not acceptable in most oranizations (one of the reasons he's on his third), and you know that. So therefore I don't get that.

And you are wrong I am not biased, his behavior is unacceptable.

So tell me, you are an umpire, right? You are umpiring a game, the player gets struck out and SPITS towards the pitcher, you say that's acceptable behavior?

That's ok, regardless of the outcome, Albert shows Morgan that to be successful in this game, you speak with your bat.

You guys are missing a good game.

Watching, awesome game!

All tied up as the teams will head for St. Louis... Three quick wins would work for me! And send those birds onto the World Series!

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Originally posted by TPM:

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Originally posted by Matt13:

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Originally posted by TPM:
I just don't get what you are trying to say.

You are correct.

You are saying that is ok to run your mouth off, that is not acceptable in most oranizations (one of the reasons he's on his third), and you know that. So therefore I don't get that.

And you are wrong I am not biased, his behavior is unacceptable.

So tell me, you are an umpire, right? You are umpiring a game, the player gets struck out and SPITS towards the pitcher, you say that's acceptable behavior?

That's ok, regardless of the outcome, Albert shows Morgan that to be successful in this game, you speak with your bat.

Apparently, you are not paying attention to what I have stated (multiple times,) or you are being intentionally obtuse.

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Originally posted by Matt13:
Apparently, you are not paying attention to what I have stated (multiple times,) or you are being intentionally obtuse.

Doesn't seem like you were paying attention either.

Good night for Morgan! Maybe a few of those more good nights and he will learn to keep his mouth closed, show some HUMILITY....and I am not being intentionally obtuse!

Marcum is a crafty righty, who has been less crafty and more cr@ppy in the playoffs. The birds didn't miss his boo boos.

All quiet on the TonyPlush Morgan front.
Matt, this is what people are talking about, he may be a fun loving guy, but at this stage in the game he needs to know how to act as a professional. JMO.

FWIW, Dad04's pitcher's catcher (got that) at college was Jon Lucroy. How exciting is that to see one of your son's close friends in the playoffs!

Lucroy was fun to watch here for a short time with the Sounds. Fan friendly, he came over to sign a ball for my boy one day and chatted for a few minutes.

A friend with Cardinal season tickets said he is getting a T-shirt with Morgan's photo on it and this below: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with terrible resolve."

Game 3. I don't have the sound on. Did they warn everyone after Carpenter hit Braun in the first?

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Originally posted by Texas1836:
Lucroy was fun to watch here for a short time with the Sounds. Fan friendly, he came over to sign a ball for my boy one day and chatted for a few minutes.

A friend with Cardinal season tickets said he is getting a T-shirt with Morgan's photo on it and this below: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with terrible resolve."

I've know Jon Lucroy since he was 16. The only thing that is different is he now wears nicer cowboy boots.

Fun series! 2-2

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Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Fun series! 2-2

No, a fun series would have been if the Cardinals swept. But that's just me.

I wish I knew all those guys on a first name basis

I'll get you some autographs.

Game 6

Holy ****, it's home run derby!!!

6 home runs already... and it's in the top of the third..

3rd inning, 2 hours have elapsed.

The game will finish tomorrow at some point, STL 27, MB 12.

This might end up being the longest game in MLB history. It would not surprise me to see this one get tied up late and go into extra innings and then no one can score a run for about 8 innings. If I were the Cards I would pull out all the stops and go for the series tonight. Go ahead and bring the horses out of the pen now. You got a four run lead go for it. You lose this game and your toast tomorrow. JMO

What horrible baseball, especially for a league championship.

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Originally posted by twotex:
What horrible baseball, especially for a league championship.

WHAT? You have a game where no lead is safe. Both lineups are tearing the cover off of the ball. Players are laying it all out. Bruan dives for first and Pujols dives to get Braun. Look at the intensity of both dugouts. This is great for the game! JMHO!

I know as a Cardinal fan, I'm on pins and needles!

It does look like a game where anything can happen!

Julie

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Originally posted by CoachB25:

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Originally posted by twotex:
What horrible baseball, especially for a league championship.

WHAT?

If anything, Milwaukee's defense has been very sloppy recently.

Happy Flight! Happy Flight! Happy Flight!

I'm old fashioned. I like to see sparkling defense and stellar pitching in a championship series.

JMHO.

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Originally posted by twotex:
What horrible baseball, especially for a league championship.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Cardinal fan by association only, so regardless, I can't understand the above statement. The Cards down the stretch have been the most exciting team to watch, and this series especially because of the rivalry.

I was just curious, what makes baseball horrible, especially a league championship?

BTW, I heard that birdfans are going to pitch in and send TPlush a lazy boy so he can sit back and relax and enjoy the series. Wonder if he will remain with the Brewers, they pretty much kept him hidden most of this series.

You know they always say, "An ugly win sure beats a pretty loss!"

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Originally posted by TPM:
BTW, I heard that birdfans are going to pitch in and send TPlush a lazy boy so he can sit back and relax and enjoy the series.

While, they're at it, they might want to see if he needs a new smart phone, too. TPlush hasn't tweeted or updated his web site in quite a while. He might be having technical difficulties.

The cards need to cure their pitcher's bird flu or it will be a quick series.

Watching the game last night I couldn't help thinking that Shaun Marcum lacked major league stuff. Obviously he had a rough night and to his credit overall he had a pretty good year (excellent first half, bad second) and career but I still couldn't stop being underwhelmed with what I was watching.

I realize he wasnt hitting his spots as he admitted post game and I have not watched him at all during his career so I'm far from having an informed opinoin but nevertheless he just didnt look like anything resembling a major league pitcher last night.

Nothing earth shattering with this comment but when you routinely see guys coming in throwing gas and/or amazing command and secondary stuff, it takes you back a bit when I saw what I saw last night in such an all important game.

And he actually looked scared out there. Hopefully somebody with more knowledge of his approach could enlighten me. Is he basically a right handed version of Mark Beurhle when he's on?

Pulling back a bit and taking a bigger view, because of situations like last night when a pure control pitcher doesnt have it and gets lit up as a result, do you think teams will continue to de-emphasis command over stuff (of course they prefer both) because of larger margin of error?

Starting pitchers going 1 and 2 innings each doesn't fall within my definition of good pitching. 3 errors by the Brewers in a league championships - really? That's good baseball?

Giving up 6 runs in an important game doesn't fit my definition of great baseball either. If the Cardinals pitching staff can feel good about giving up 6 runs, that's great for them. You come out after an half an inning with a 4 run lead then start giving up runs. Again, not great baseball.

Was this great hitting or bad pitching?

Again, I'm old school and I admit it. I embrace my old schoolness.

It was not a well played game. Sloppy defense and poor pitching. It was exciting because runs were being scored. But it was a sloppy game. Both starting pitchers had nothing. They are both very talented or they wouldnt be in that situation. But neither one of them had their stuff last night. No knock on the Cards because they did what they had to do. But it was not the type of baseball you expect to see at that level.

The greatest games aren't always the best played. Flawless and beautiful are not the same.

How well played was game 6 of the ALCS? Detroit gave up 17 hits, 8 walks, and two errors. Somehow, it escaped the criticism leveled at the NLCS game six.

The post season is about doing what it takes to win with the players you have in whatever circumstances you find yourself. Champions reveal their character by struggling amd persevering, and their accomplishments are not diminished by their opponent's mistakes. How you react when you're battered and staggering amid smoldering wreckage says more about character than a clean win.


I suppose Game 7 of the 1964 World Series didn't live up to old school definitions of great baseball, either. The Yankees made two errors, one of which contributed to the winning margin: must not have been well played. The winning pitcher gave up five runs, 9 hits, and three home runs: must not have been very good pitching. Nevertheless it is remembered as a titanic struggle between some of the game's greats. Mantle homered off Gibson. Keane left an obviously exhausted Gibson in the game because he had "a commitment to his heart." Ugly in a lot of ways, but one for the ages.

I'm not putting last night's game in that category, but I thought it had enough different kinds of excitement to prevent itchy TV-remote fingers: big opening punch by St. Louis, huge counter-punch by Milwaukee; counter-counter punch by the Cards. Then the tension as the under-valued, over-achieving Cardinal bullpen tried hang on for three more trips through the powerful Brewers lineup. Lots of anxiety not apparent in the box score as the Brewers tallied single runs in the 4th and 5th and got the tying run to the on deck circle. At that rate, the lead wouldn't last. Then surprise performances from relievers on each team who went longer than their managers had let them go all year. Two outstanding first basemen about to enter the free agent market: Pujols calling time to let the final (?) hometown Brewer ovation roll over Fielder for a few more seconds. The contrast between the manager who pushes all the buttons and the one who spurns intentional walks. Satisfying to the purist? Apparently not. But it had plenty of drama and solid entertainment value.

Sometimes it's good to be a fan and not an expert. I may not have an eye for all the fine points of the game, but I enjoy watching the threads of the story weave together.

twotex I totally respect your opinion of what a good baseball game is and I'll even agree with it.

My definition is a little broader....if I'm sitting on the edge of my seat wondering who's going to win then it's a good game to me.

Exciting game? Sure...

But when my 14 year old starts laughing at some of the errors....

makes you wonder