The good stuff.....

I'm for the way Pujols hits, for Pujols. Don't think Berkman, A-Rod or others should hit like Pujols. I also believe if you try to spread out too many kids, you will not give them a chance to play college ball.

How many little guys can do what Pujols does with power?

Kind of fun being at it again -- don't you think BlueDog, NH, swingbuster, etc. Where's Vance34 when you need him. Hey Vance34 how's this thread going?

swingbuilder, please explain your comment on "and not heel-toe." Also, if you don't mind, please post a few videos on Pujos' stride. Anxiously awaiting. --- Maybe those days of lull are gone and we're back to "the good stuff." Note - naturally, Heel-Toe is the beginning and end. What happens in between is really important -

Regarding power - I have several players who hit, please forgive me swingbuilder, "heel-toe" and they have some pretty good pop. I know a certain young lady that hits in this manner and she recently had a tournament where the majority of her hits were triples and she only made one out. She hit a ball in a recent middle school game that shocked everyone watching.

Coach, just telling a kid heel-toe doesn't even come close to explaining what your trying to get across. Its how that hitter uses his middle to swing the bat. Just raising the heel and going up on the Toe doesn't warrant a good swing. Sure a kid can have success doing it or he can't. It doesn't mean he is doing it correct. Does he use external rotation when he does this technique or does he use internal rotation. Are they spinning by using the front leg to push the front hip open? Are the using the feet to turn the middle with this heel-toe technique? Are they defying gravity? are they hitting against the frontside? or on the backside? Simply saying a no stride technique is Heel-Toe means nothing.Heel-Toe is not the beginning Nor is it the end! What happens "IN BETWEEN" as you said is what I wanta know if you and NH KNOW?

Coach, you have several emails at your posted email address through your school system.

Swing,

One....I envy you having been raised by an ex-player. Right off the start, you were ahead of the game.


Two...obviously just being an ex-player does not mean you can instruct, but why are you and BD and others so opposed to those do have the ability to coach and teach and also happen to have a good background with experience?

You keep talking about the elite/high level swing, myself and many others here have been begging this character to explain how you take a young player and get him to the point where he has this elite swing.

IS THAT NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS SITE ?

So far this has been a futile attempt, it always results in this same foolishness. This is a high school baseball web site, the aim is to help HS players. If you or BD or someone else here possesses the Rosetta Stone of hitting, Please show the rest of us. I will be the first in line to say I was wrong.

But just posting clips and saying do what he does is not teaching.

Now if you still believe that you wave your magic wand and just keep asking questions of your student all the time and he will one day "get it", so be it.

I prefer to have people who can communicate what it is that they know. If you or BD or any of the others supporters of this magic method would just simply communicate, you may find that other people would agree with you. But since you find it necessary to wrap everything in riddles and innuendo, this is the kind of discussion that you bring out.

I have been asking this person to explain how he would teach what he know since i first saw him post. Strange how it always takes a 3rd party to "understand" him.

In all that time, he has never offered up anything like im sure your Dad did for you. Im also sure your Dad didnt teach you by always asking questions. Im pretty certain at some point he showed you some drill or other activity to help you understand what it is he meant for you to understand. Im also sure at some point you & he must have talked about hitting and he surely must have tried to explain some of it to you as well as asking you questions.


As far as Pujols goes.....

"
Your explanation of Pujols technique is LAME at best. That is not what a no stride technique is. It has more to do with the middle and how he manipulates it that would be no stride and not heel - toe.
"

Once again, so enlighten me, the poor ill informed soul, as too what you think it is.
What is he doing with the middle? How is does he initiate it? what keys would you have him thinking about when he is working on the middle?

You dont believe CoachB25 ?

"I been fortunate enough to be there a couple of times when he has been working on it and I've heard the instruction."

Now your the one intrepreting what you see, and telling a man who was there observing and listening to the session that he is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:
Swing,

When you walk you take a stride. When we ( (I am 46 by the way) were all younger the predominant way to swing was to stand feet about shoulder width and take a stride towards the pitcher. The "no-stride" technique simply starts you at the point where you would have ended up after the stride. Yes, there is still a small movement forward, but it is not a stride.

If you wish to believe that what Pujols does is take a stride, by all means continue to think that. In the words of Yoda...You wrong

Pujols taking a stride

Pujols taking a stride part 2

Here are two clips of Pujols taking a stride....period.No ifs ands or buts, he is taking a stride in both clips.He does not take a very long stride, but it is still a stride.

quote:

What happens "IN BETWEEN" as you said is what I wanta know if you and NH KNOW?

Swing,

This is the foolish game that you & BD seem to want to play.

Is there some kind of reason why you can not just state what you know?

Is this the way you would communicate to a student?

bbscout,

nice clips,

but take your mouse cursor and place the point of it right at the back of his heel. His lifts his foot and opens it, placing the heel back down in almost exactly the same spot.

That is a trigger mechanism certainly, but it is NOT a stride. That is why its called no-stride.

The key is generating weight shift momentum into rotation which is accomplished by using your middle, not stride length. IMO too much emphasis on the stride...

NYDad,

Thank you, I agree!

NH, you agree? but you say Pujols does not stride. He does stride. Its not called no stride because he doesn't stride, HE DOES! Its called no stride because of what NYDAD has mentioned. Your the one who said Pujols doesn't stride. THE VIDEO DOESN"T LIE!

quote:

I will be the first in line to say I was wrong.

Its not about you being wrong or right. Thats not the goal. Open your mind NH, dive into the swing from the middle out. Learn what the best do.

quote:

I will be the first in line to say I was wrong.

You will?

Didn't you just look at Pujols taking a stride from 2 clips posted here? and your response was.........

quote:

nice clips,

but take your mouse cursor and place the point of it right at the back of his heel. His lifts his foot and opens it, placing the heel back down in almost exactly the same spot.

That is a trigger mechanism certainly, but it is NOT a stride.

Swingbuilder, I sent you a video of Pujos no-stride. I don't have the ability to post it. If you don't mind...

Swing,

I tell you what....you start walking with a "stride" that has the length of movement that Pujols heel moves in that first clip.

See how far you can go.

Yuor absoultely right...the video does not lie....Instead of contiuning to play this stupid semantic game, are you ever going to actually say what it is you know.

I am at this point your humble student, please swing show me the light.

quote:

Learn what the best do.

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN THIS LOST SOUL

quote:

Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:
bbscout,

nice clips,

but take your mouse cursor and place the point of it right at the back of his heel. His lifts his foot and opens it, placing the heel back down in almost exactly the same spot.

That is a trigger mechanism certainly, but it is NOT a stride. That is why its called no-stride.

I have gone over these clips about 50 times.....that is why I posted them. He takes a stride in both. As I said before, it is not a long stride, but it is a stride.

As far as placing the heel down in the exact spot.....you are wrong, and the video proves it. I have lots more video stored too.

quote:

Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:
Swing,

I tell you what....you start walking with a "stride" that has the length of movement that Pujols heel moves in that first clip.

See how far you can go.

Yuor absoultely right...the video does not lie....Instead of contiuning to play this stupid semantic game, are you ever going to actually say what it is you know.

I am at this point your humble student, please swing show me the light.

Where does it say that a hitter must stride the length of a walking stride??? Some hitters like G Brett and Mantle had long strides, some like Pujols and Bonds had short strides. Ted Williams had a medium length stride, but they all have strides. Edmonds is the only guy that I have seen numerous clips of that I have never personally seen take a stride.

quote:

See how far you can go.

NH, not sure I understand your point...what difference does it make how short/long the stride is?

NH, are we talking about walking or hitting? Any movement with the lead foot when it leaves the ground is considered a stride, NOT WALKING.

Coach25 sent me a clip of Pujols. The clip starts late and only shows Pujols with the toe on the ground. Coach25 says he uses this clip to teach by. I have the same clip he sent me BUT I have the clip from the start. It shows Pujols moving his foot forward to toe touch.

NH, my point to you is that Pujols foot and heel-toe, as you used, as nothing to do with his technique of hitting. He has a wide base and a small stride so he can better adjust to off speed pitches. BUT, it has nothing to do with his ability to create movement and momentum to rotate his hips.

Swing

"BUT, it has nothing to do with his ability to create movement and momentum to rotate his hips."

...at what point did i ever say that it did?

Lets put down the swords ok?

I am genuinely asking you to help me understand
what it is you know.

NH, BLUE and NY DAD and BBSCOUT all see that Pujols strides. You have to see that 1st.

Clip 6 shows a fairly significant stride.
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Anyone missing the real hitting discussions?.....Ya know, the good stuff....

yes

To stride, or not to stride: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
the slings and arrows of outrageous fastballs,
Or to take arms against a sea of off-speed pitches,
And by opposing end them.
To strikeout: to sleep;
No more; and by a strikeout to say we end.

Compliments of Billy "White shoes" Shakespeare.

On the subject of Pujlos, the one thing that jumps out at me about his swing is he pre-loads his shoulders. Most MLB hitters load their shoulders against their stride whereas Pujlos appears to have very little shoulder load once he begins weight shift.

Actually - some load their shoulders against their stride alot - some very little - and some in between.

So what exactly does that mean?

On the subject of a pre-loaded upper body, how about Manny Ramirez? This is, imo, the simplest way to handle the stride/load process. There is no need to load the hands during the stride, like I hear all the time...

MLB hitters load the shoulders, not the hands....

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/mac03.mpeg

Level,

Some do - and some dont. Some have very exaggerated loads and some have very subtle loads.

You get the point I am sure.

What you have to watch out for are the guys that say there is only one way. Its almost always BS or ego or both. IMO.

And watching films of the best players will prove that. IMO.

When watching high school hitters I have noticed that the knob of the bat often changes direction drastically during their strides. In other words, the knob will point down the opposite foul line in the hitter's stance, then turn away from the pitcher, towards the catcher during the stride.

Pro hitters, on the other hand, tend to keep the knob of the bat pointed in the same direction during the stride. For example, http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Chipper01.mpeg, or http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/mac01.mpeg The knob of the bat points to the catcher's shin guard, and stays there until the front foot plants and the hip start their move.

I think the HS kids have all that hand movement beacuse they are either taught to "load the hands" in order to get them going, or because they are told to "cheat" the knob of the bat toward the pitcher. They feel this is a shorter path the the strike zone. Fastpitch girls do this alot, try to start with the knob facing the first baseman (rh hitter).

I brought up Manny before because I think his method is the simplest, yet still provides max power. Get those hands back, and leave them back.

Level,

For most every High School aged player - getting your upper body into proper hitting position at front foot plant is important.

How you get there is not. IMO.

You will either be ready for the pitch - or you wont - and usually the timing of your upper body load (Both shoulders AND hands) will determine whether you are ready to hit or dead meat.

IMO.

Level, agree that Manny is similar to Puljos with respect to pre-loading the shoulders.

It's - Perhaps some of the experts will correct me on this if I am mistaken but it is my observation that the vast majority of big league hitters will load shoulders against their stride unlike Pujlos/Manny who pre-load.

Nevertheless, the objective is getting into proper and launch position which they ALL do.

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:

Nevertheless, the objective is getting into proper and launch position which they ALL do.

NyDad,

Yes I agree - they all do - and there are a million variations on how they get there - IMO

LevelPath, High School, and other amateur hitters, are taught to relax in the stance.....Relax and get rid of the tension.....You hear this from many who post on here.....Coaches and Dads.....They do not understand and comprehend what forming a box with the hands, arms and shoulders while creating connection is all about....They do not understand and comprehend that load is tension.....Nor do they realize that hitters simply can't relax, then load, against fast pitching......

MLB hitters do the opposite....They are in a state of load when they step into the box.....The connection between their hands and arms to their shoulders is already begun....Their body has tension before they stride.....They do not relax in the batter's box.......

I agree, it is amazing watching High School hitters do what you describe....It is even more amazing how confident they seem to look when they swing and miss......They think they're doing it the right way....Why not, their coach says they are....

Bluedog,

Nonsense. You went from loading shoulders (and not hands - mistake BTW) to "relaxing in the box".

A total diversion.

Then you claim to know what others across the USA "understand and comprehend". How exactly would you know that?

And then - as usual - you somehow come back to slamming coaches and dads. Of course - you had to add the preface "many who post on here".

A total BS post IMO. The same old same old.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
You hear this from many who post on here.....Coaches and Dads.....They do not understand and comprehend what forming a box with the hands, arms and shoulders while creating connection is all about....They do not understand and comprehend that load is tension


I agree, it is amazing watching High School hitters do what you describe....It is even more amazing how confident they seem to look when they swing and miss......They think they're doing it the right way....Why not, their coach says they are....

The question remains.

What is the agenda?

Why cant this poster participate in any discussion without a criticism of others on this site.

Is it because he has nothing useful to contribute? Is he just an angry dude? Or is he a cyber troll whose primary objective is to disrupt?

4 years of this nonsense. Consistent and unrelenting. HS coaches - college coaches - dads - players. A long laundry list of garbage.

Ask yourself this question.

When you post - do you do this?

Do you use your posting priviledges to denigrate others? Or do you try to offer your opinion to help others.

Ask yourself that question.

Then come back and try to defend this cyber entity.

The stance is a very important part of the hitting process.....MLB hitters realize it's importance.....Most amateurs don't......

Yeah - thats wonderful.

The spikes are important too. And the brand of eyeblack you use is critical.

Just go to another topic dude.

Divert - and run.

Bluedog,

For the 876th time.

We are here to help the kids and the parents.

We are not here to cyber slam people.

Let that sink in.

Get with the program.

quote:

The stance is a very important part of the hitting process.....

Dog, would you be kind enough to elaborate on the importance of a hitters batting stance as in pre-load/pre-swing position. Thanks.