The Race to Nowhere in Youth Sports

I think that  parents of an 8th grader doesn't know much or they would not commit their child in the first place. I actually think that they took themselves off the hook to do their due diligence for their child as to what may be the best option or that they felt their player had to attend their alma mater (which is often the case or very early commits). 

The big part in all of this that I have issue with is that it is not what the kids really want, its what the parents want.  

 

My sons dream since he was like 5 was to attend the local ACC powerhouse.  That's all he talked about, but he really didnt realize all that was really involved until he actually became involved in the decision process and ultimately he made his choice after he understood what was going on.  

I think that parents these days give in too easily to what he/she "wants".  And parents use the "this is what he/she wants" because they are actually afrais if they do not keep up with the jones or smith their child will not get the opportunities that they feel he/she deserve.  

FWIW, we didn't put son on a very expensive travel team until we felt that he had earned it, by doing well in school and showing responsibility that comes with getting a scholarship or even for us to consider paying what we had to without him making poor choices that may prevent that. Maybe I am old fashioned, but that worked well for us.

Then they cant understand why they get out of control when they become young adults, esentially because they always got what they want, or the parent went overboard thinking that this is "what he/she wants".

 

JMO

I'm not as sure about it with kids. My son recently made a splash as a pitcher with a D1 school. He was on the phone with the coach and I was listening in. Now, we had spoken in detail about how disadventageous it would be to commit as a freshman. We had discussed how that's a one way street. We were in agreement. However, I could tell that he would have commited in a second without so much as looking over at me if he had been offered. Luckily he wasn't.

This from a poll on the CHSAA (Colorado) website:

Current or former high school athletes: Why do you play sports?

You did your job, IMO.

I am assuming that you have not gone through the college ball experience.

You will look back someday and understand.

BTW, I added to my post.

Here is one JB.

Jameis Winston played baseballl at FSU. Does anyone think he went to fall practice during football season? 

He came out and declared for the draft, I would bet lots of FSU baseball players are really relieved.

Russel Wilson at NC State is another.

Now, if you want to talk about specializing and year around training, let's chat about gymnastics. We went through 12 years of gymnastics (8 competitive years) with our daughter and baseball pressure and specialization is nothing compared to that. Be thankful that there are all these great opportunities for playing baseball beyond high school at so many levels. The same cannot be said for gymnastics and it leads to some pretty crazy parental behavior.

 

Thats ts a great example of where we are heading in baseball if parents don't take deep breaths and relax a little. Our daughter did this for a while and was quite good at it until we woke up and got her the he!! out of That. 

By the way, just say the name: Andrew Luck.

Nope. Try again. 

CaCO3girl,

Where you live, if your son is good he will NOT go unnoticed.

What we are trying to tell you is that talent is the key word here.  Talent is what makes the coach let the football stud play spring ball even though he never went to practice. Talent is what gets the player on the HS baseball team, on a college roster or maybe even drafted.  Its all about putting the best players  on the roster. 

Reality is that he could play on the best travel team for 11,12 year olds but never make a HS roster, college roster or get attention from a scout.  You are worrying about stuff that comes later, let him enjoy and have fun and not worry about stuff he doesnt have to, just let him go out and play the game!  I think that was what Coach May was trying to say.

I know its hard to understand, and we understand that things have changed. But things have changed because parents want their sons/daughters to be the best and play on the best teams, and do stuff that is absolutely ridiculous and not age appropriate, IMO.

The kids remain the same as they were 10 years ago....they are kids.  Its the parents that are different!

Hang in there and most of all be patient, it will all work out, and you will look back and chuckle that you just worried too much about this stuff.

 

It's clearly Toby Gerhart. He was a stud baseball player and a phenomenal athlete.

I just looked up his PG profile: http://www.perfectgame.org/Pla...rofile.aspx?ID=31282

 

10 grade. Ranked 57th in the country. Ran a 6.35 60!!

Well, I had a 50/50 chance I guess. Luck fit the same profile.

 I'm hoping no one thinks I was arguing that there aren't athletes playing two sports in college.

Man, does TPM nail this. When I played back in the 80's the kids who dominated Little League never got a sniff of varsity HS ball - they just armpit hair earlier than the rest of us. By the time we hit 9th-10th grade those guys were afterthoughts, and guess what - now my 2018 is seeing the same thing.

 

If I look at his 12 year old "all star" team, 5 of those 12 kids got cut from their high school programs, including the #1 pitcher. Two of the three best players on that team made the cut but likely will not start on a decent, but not great, freshman team. Those kids hit puberty in 7th grade, our kids hit puberty in 8th or 9th grade. I told my 2018 a million times - its not who is the best in junior high school, winning that contest means nothing. 

It is always interesting going to the try outs for 14 and 15 u in our area. Many of the kids that have been with a program since 9u are suddenly struggling to find a place to play.these kids were studs at 9-12/13, but puberty finally starts evening out the playing field. We see a lot of kids start to drop by the wayside. Some of them and there family had spent a lot of time focusing on just baseball and sudenly they cannot compete, many times it is too late to catch up to others who have been playing multiple sports because all they did is play baseball, or lacrosse, or soccer. I remember several parents regretting helping their kids specialize. 

You guys get it because you have been there and seen it.
I get a kick out of folks who come here and let everyone know how good their youth player is. He is bigger taller and throws harder or hits harder than anyone.  Funny thing is they seem to fade out during the upper HS years.  While they are so busy preparing their young son for college scholarships (and maybe possibly drafted) they forget about what might happen after the big "P" takes over.  For most it occurs in HS.  For others its later on and this actually can work to their advantage. Everything changes.
I remember this guy that used to post here. His last screen name was skylark. According to him his son was the best rhp in Idaho. In 8th grade his son had the best era and win record in whatever travel team they played for. He talked about his dreams for his son. He argued everything about pitchers from training to his sons magnificent curveball.  He knew it all!

I want to know where is your son now Mr.Skylark?!

So I say this to parents of young pre HS players to keep in the back of their minds. Recruiting has changed but puberty hasnt.
Your sons should not be limiting their physical activity to just baseball.  They dont need off season specific training. Go play  other sports for fun. Use different muscle groups...and read ASMIs recommendations. Do your homework. Dont entrust your son to someone  because he once played the game.  If their is no fun in the game switch teams....at any age.
Enjoy this time and stop worrying your son wont make the HS team. If he is good he will.

TPM, you are spot on. When my son was 12, there was a player that was the best 12 year old player I have ever seen. Even the best 12 year old players I see today are no where as good as he was. During the the all star game I looked at his legs and he had more hair on his legs than I did. At 13 and 14 he was ranked #1 or #2 in the state. In every ones mind a top ten college prospect or even top draft pick. He is still going to play in college but not anywhere close to where every one thought he would

Greatgame,
We had the same situation here. In junior high a latin player best guy you ever saw. Scouts at games. By HS he was not even a mention.
In our travels we often played Hialeah teams.  These kids had facial hair. These kids were good. They beat us. Everyone knows latins reach puberty faster that caucasions. We used to tell the kids not to worry they would look back and a  laugh about it. And many of these kids  were older than they claimed.

Who remembers Denny Almonte...google if you dont know. He is the LL phenom whose parents lied on his birth certificate.
The same scenerio repeats itself year after year. All those puny guys grow up!
Or as my mom would say when we were kids, it all comes out in the wash.

TPM I know you know your stuff, and I know I am an ignorant newbie (no really I honestly do feel that way) but having not been through this like you have I can't just take your word for it that he doesn't need off-season specific training.  It's not just a case of keeping up with the Jones'es but keeping up with his peers who ARE doing the training.  So, until everyone else stops doing the conditioning in the off season I don't see how my son won't be behind if he does not.  It's not about talent at that point it's about not using those muscles for 3 months in a baseball way.  Logically I can't see how he wouldn't be behind everyone else.  As unwise as it is off season training for 12 year olds is the status quo. 

 

The one message I have taken away from this board that EVERYONE seems to agree on is to have your son play on the team that will provide him the best competition that your child will get significant playing time on.  So, if your child is capable of playing AA try to get on a team that plays against AAA; if he's capable of AAA try to get with a team that plays against Major teams.  Don't worry about trophies or wins, worry about if he is playing against kids that are better than him that challenge him, that make him strive to be a better player.

 

It has been my limited experience that the teams that worry about the trophy counts aren't in it for the fundamental education.  And the teams that worry about the fundamental education and occasionally win trophies are together for 10 months out of the year with off season training.  So, I guess what I am trying to say is we as parents aren't left with much of a choice.  If you care about little Johnny learning the right way to throw, block, swing, move, work his feet, and field you have to go to the off season training to be on that team. 

 

Just because everyones doing it at his age does not mean they know what they are doing.  Go read Dr. Andrews information on pitching.  While its pitching specific it applies across the board when it comes to rest.  Your muscles need about 3 months of rest to completely repair all the micro tears built up in the muscles and tendons over a season.  You should really lay off position specific training for about 3 months between seasons.  Im not saying you should not work on strengthening and conditioning but you should not be doing a lot of throwing, hitting, etc during the shutdown period.  

 

CaCO3Girl,

This isn't about trophies but since you brought it up not every player will go onto play HS ball or college ball.  So this may be the only time they will get an opportunity to have one on the shelf.

Whats wrong with trophies, my son is 29 and I have every single on of them! Yes, he always played up and he was always one of the youngest until he got to HS. But I am not sure that is what made him a good player. He was just very athletic and more than anything competitive, he had to win everything he played.  

I do believe that inner competitive drive is what makes a player who they are.  

 

We made it hard for him, I am wondering if we made it easy would he have been the same?  And the classroom was first above anything else and that most likely helped in a big way for the scholarship that he received.

 

Dont get me wrong, there are plenty of guys who were far better than son, that's for sure. But the goal was to avoid injury, but unfortunately after college that wasnt always the case. As most know the injury bug creeps up on you very quickly. I am amazed at the # of TJS alone mentioned on this site for HS and college players as well as injuries.

Why?

 

I do understand what you are saying and I dont disagree. You explained your situation perfectly, but you also made my point. This is not about what the kids want, its what the parents feel they have to do to keep up with the next door neighbors kid.  That to me is a sad commentary on today's youth sports.  Why not just teach those skills during practice time?  Because, IMO baseball is a big biz and these indoor facilities and training centers are expensive to run!  

 

Things have not changed, many years ago the competition was just as fierce.  Living in a warm climate with advice of my sons pediatrician who specialized in fitness, he suggested that son never play year round baseball. That was when it wasnt fashionable to say so. So young son played fall ball and then moved to the golf course, swimminng and street hockey (my neighbors were panther players). Then spring ball and as the summer months grew warmer, basketball, bowling indoors and tons of swimming.  There is no baseball in middle school so he took to soccer and volleyball. And he put on magic shows.  He really wanted to be a magician at one point.  

My point is that baseball was not the center of his life, though he did tell everyone he was going to play baseball for a living. We made sure that he had plenty of other things to do.

What I am saying is that we never gave into the pressure, and not until his junior year did he not play year round ball. Guess what, he made out just fine. He never really worked out as much as he should, and I guess that skinny lanky pitcher caught a lot of attention. He worked in HS too, starting in his sophmore year. During recruiting the coaches loved the fact that he maintained a high GPA, played HS ball and travel in summer and delivered pies.

 

Would it happen today, I dont know, he was throwing 90+ without all of the extra stuff so I dont know.  But I do know that I would more than likely keep much of it all the same, nothing really serious until HS.

 

Hope that this explains my position, as I have told you before.

You are 100% correct!!! Especially true for young players because once they reach HS, college its non stop.

Even ML players rest in the off season!

How many ML'ers play winter ball? That's not a rhetorical question - I really wonder if anyone has an idea how many do so.

Not a high percentage.  Less than 10%? (just a guess - mine did a few years ago, once).

 

BUT, they do have well defined down times...including pitcher shut down times...followed by a ramping back up through pretty intensive training programs.

 

Lets say this, they are NOT on a 12-month baseball program by any stretch.  But more on a 12-month holistic approach, part of which is mental and physical rest.

jbb is right. Not many ML play at all. But some of the latins do. Then for pitchers its an inning here or there.

BTW the rule is that a team cannot have more than 6 or 7 "imports"  (not from that country). You will find some AA and AAA prospects sent to work on their stuff.

 

But generally most guys (pitchers) shut down and dont pick up a ball for months. 

 

And guys do training on their own, not team supported.  That goes for everyone in professional baseball.

Define "Rest"?  I have seen the debate on here before but I honestly want to know what the board thinks ML do in their off season. My theory would be:

1. The hitters are hitting at least once or twice a week.

2. All are running.

3. All are doing some form of speed and agility, and perhaps weight lifting three or more times a week.

4. The catcher's are likely getting in front of either a machine or a pitcher at least once a week.

5. The pitcher's are doing some kind of easy bullpen session at least once a week.

 

Would this be considered "Rest"?  Just because they aren't playing games I doubt these pro-athletes are sitting on their thumbs waiting for Spring Training or they would all be in a heap of trouble for not working out at all in 3 months.  A body that is used to near constant training can REALLY transform with limited exercise in 3 months time.

P. T. Barnum was a wise man. When people finally realize that 90% of an athletes success and ability was determined when the sperm met the egg this craziness will end. On a scale of 1-10 if a kid is born an 8 he can work his way to a 9 but if he's born a 4 he's never going to get there. All pre puberty kids need as far as training is learning good not great just good basic hitting, throwing, and fielding mechanics. If the parent can't teach those find someone who can. An instructor or a good coach be it a rec or travel coach. Either way any good coach can teach them in a small amout of time and won't need year round work to do it. Then when the genetics kick in. The player can work his butt off to separate himself from those of equal genetics. He won't catch those of greater genetics nor be passed by those of lesser ones. Only separate himself from those in his range. The problem is you can't build a billion dollar industry around this little fact.

roothog, 

You can google  carribean league and look through the teams and see if you recognize any names. Some of these guys do come to help out as well, mentors more or less to the younger players from their country. Son had 16 year olds (natives) on his roster, but they didnt play but did work out and practice with the team.

Personally I think the absence on steroids as well as HGH has stopped some of the older guys from playing winter ball.  JMO.

       
       

Pro athletes are fully developed grown men. What they do has absolutly no corilation to what a child needs to be doing.

Thats training not playing. For pitchers they begin a toss program and then work up to a bullpen before they get to spring training. Some vet ML  dont even do much until they get to camp. 

 

And all are not running as in long distance running.

 

No they dont sit around doing nothing, but they do rest after the season, they have to. And remember they get paid to play, this is their job, so there is a big difference here.

I'll answer based on my MLB son (RHP):

 

Define "Rest"?  I have seen the debate on here before but I honestly want to know what the board thinks ML do in their off season. My theory would be:

1. The hitters are hitting at least once or twice a week.

 

Don't know, son is a pitcher

 

2. All are running.

 

At some point?  Yes.  But no, not non-stop from season-end to Spring Training.  He needs a break.  That break lasts a month, sometimes more.

 

3. All are doing some form of speed and agility, and perhaps weight lifting three or more times a week.

 

Again, there is certainly a down-time break in there.

 

4. The catcher's are likely getting in front of either a machine or a pitcher at least once a week.

 

Not in front of pro pitchers - they are shut down for 3 or more months.  The pro catcher I know (was an MLB all star 2 years ago) gets in the bullpen about the same time as our son.  Mid-December to early January.

 

5. The pitcher's are doing some kind of easy bullpen session at least once a week.

 

No, absolutely not!  If season ends on October 1, our son likely doesn't pick up a baseball until sometime in December.  Not in the bullpen (if healthy) until mid January.

 

I would 100% agree that their job is to play, they get paid for it, and it is nothing like 12u baseball.

 

But why do they train in the off season?  If the theory is they are training to keep their muscles loose, keep their bat reaction times fresh, keep their body in shape....why are those bad things for a 12 year old to do November-January?  I mean I know these guys are getting paid and it's their job, but doesn't the same principle apply to how kids should stay in shape whether through basketball, baseball, football...etc...

I only asked because I've worked with several guys in the minors and very few of them, especially the ones who go striaght from HS to pro ball, get a whole lot of the winter off. I just wondered how long that goes on. I have recognized that most of the mlb'ers playing winter ball tend to be Latin. By the way, especially with pitchers, I believe there has to be a shutdown period. The biggest problem with younger pitchers I see, though (high school is the worst), is a shut down period that doesn't end until the very beginning of baseball season. They will shut down and go from zero pitching activity to full speed in a matter of two weeks. This can be worse, in my opinion.

milb players have off from end of august to march, unless asked to report earlier.

 

Every time I read one of TPM posts I think she is talking about my son, except her son is further along than mine.  As my son got older most of his friends were playing for the academy teams. Monthly fees, tournament fees, private lessons, travel expenses, winter work outs, they were pay a small fortune. At the time the economy was in a tail spin and I could not justify the expense. All the dads told me that he was getting left behind. I was having a hard time with it all. Thought I was the worst parent ever, was not giving my son every advantage I could. Nearly drove me crazy.  In a better economy I would have bought in, glad I didn’t. He played travel lite daddy ball and rec until he was 15. Also played football and basketball, hardly ever worked out. Really didn’t have time, he was always playing a sport or two. Summer after freshman year he played all stars on a U13-U15 team. The league had a U13 and a U14 team so the 13 and 14 year olds on the team were those that did not make the team for their age group. That was one of the best times he ever had in baseball. The summer after his sophomore year was when it got serious. November he signed to play for his dream school and one of the top teams in the nation. The friends that played for the well connected academy teams, most will end there baseball career this high school season.

Everybody has the story about the 12u stud who didn't grow any more and didn't make the high school team and the story about the scrub who turned into a baseball god by high school. However, the truth is that, in most communities (and I've been watching it happen for 35+ years - probably seen 50x as many 8u - 17u games as anyone else on the board) the kids who are the studs in 12u are still the studs in high school. Of course, there are exceptions. Especially at the upper levels of travel, you can pencil in thefuture studs by age 12. baseball America used to list the top 10 at every age starting with 12yos. the last one I remember started with Delino DeShileds, Jr. and Bryce harper at the top. Every single one of the top ten ended up being a stud. Four were first round draft picks and all played D1 college ball if the didn't go to the pros.

CaCO3Girl,

I live in an area with a very competitive youth sport culture like you.  I have asked the same questions and have had the same concerns.  I've determined that this is an issue of perspective.  If your goal for your son is to be the best 12U player this coming spring, having intense fall/winter workouts will certainly help.  What you are hearing is that while these workouts will help him this spring, but won't pay dividends when he's 13, let alone 18.  I doubt that being the best 12U player is really your goal for your son though, and others are trying to point out that in the bigger picture, doing other things and playing other sports will be a better long term benefit.  One has to see the big picture to believe this.

 

An analogy comes to mind.  When I graduated high school some of my friends got very good paying jobs right out of HS.  They bought nice cars and fancy clothes and went on really cool trips.  They thought I was crazy to waste my time in college.  I think you can guess how this story goes.  I'm not saying my old HS friends aren't happy, but they had a myopic view of life and today many years later they are living with those choices.

Here are a couple of those lists:

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com.../fortheages0222.html

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com...atures/ages0120.html

 

2019Dad,

I am not saying the 12yo stud wont be an 18 year old stud, however, do studs always get the best opportunities? My sons HS BF was the studliest of studs. He was full grown and developed as a junior and although he was that good, many stayed away from him because he was such a stud.

Studs with TRUE FUTURE POTENTIAL are far and few between.

JMO

Yeah, pitchers and catchers report mid-February. I have one pitcher I worked with form the time he was 15 who is in the majors. I won't name him mainly because I'm about to bash his parent organization. They pushed him every year he was in the minors to play winter ball. When he wasn't playing winter ball he still felt the need to be throwing. In fact, while in the minors, he worked out (full throwing regiment as well as workouts) with a Cy Young award winner in his late thirties who also doesn't take much of a break from throwing. In all fairness, the CY guy has had some arm issues. I think there are certain organizations who push prospects a lot harder than others.